Official Thread: Have you experienced side effects from finasteride? (Poll)

[Melvin- Admin]

9 minutes ago, yesplease said:

Not necessarily true. It depends on which study you read. There are a few (Caserini et al) that demonstrate essentially identical serum DHT reduction (~70%) with both oral and topical fin. 
 

Enough to make me believe that we need more studies and evidence, both in terms of dose-ranging for efficacy and systemic effects. 

Not all topicals are created equal. Just like surgery. When you look at systemic reduction with one topical. It doesn’t mean it will be the same for all topicals.

That’s why based on my research XYONHealth seems to have the best delivery system which prevents it from going systemic and keeps the active ingredient on the scalp. 

[yesplease]

3 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Not all topicals are created equal. Just like surgery. When you look at systemic reduction with one topical. It doesn’t mean it will be the same for all topicals.

That’s why based on my research XYONHealth seems to have the best delivery system which prevents it from going systemic and keeps the active ingredient on the scalp. 

Agree. Hence we need more studies and data.

To be clear, the Xyon product has been examined in exactly zero studies. 
 

Not to say that it isn’t effective or doesn’t minimize systemic uptake. But currently there is no impartial evidence to confirm this. Correct me of I’m wrong, as I may have missed it. 

[GoliGoliGoli]

18 minutes ago, LookMaxx said:

 

I wrote that wall of text to explain I can relate to the condition as I’ve been through the same state of mind. Also to explain that sexual effects are mostly psychological and little physical. 

PFS is a purely psychological condition and I say this based on established research. There’s nothing wrong with them physically. 
Read this article

https://www.karger.com/Article/Fulltext/497362

Nocebo effect is on another level with finasteride because the penis is after all a very psychological organ. 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17655657/

In the current study, blinded administration of finasteride was associated with a significantly higher proportion of sexual dysfunction in patients informed on sexual side effects (group 2) as compared to those in which the same information was omitted (group 1) (P = 0.03)

 

It would make sense if you get side effects while the drug is administered but it is extremely illogical to think you get sides after drug is stopped which points to the mind angle as studies prove it.

Do this exercise.

Lay down and focus on your right hand. Keep thinking and repeating my hand is dead, my hand is dead, imagine it rotting gangrenous. Within a few minutes it would feel heavy and different to the other hand and rest of body.

Hand is nowhere near as connected to the brain as our penis is. Do the math yourself and the conclusion is 🤌

If PFS was real phenomenon Merck wouldn’t have been able to get the drug approved it. Strange that this mysterious illness appeared 30? years later when internet discussion forums appeared

 

Total bullocks. DHT is a sex hormone in the same way Testosterone is. You don't need to write walls of text to explain it either. Their is a clear mechanism for how Fin causes ED and other sexual dysfunctions, and it's the mechanism that everyone agrees upon with regards to how Fin works: It inhibits 5-alpha reductase activity which prevents the conversion of Testosterone into DHT. Simple as. 

[yesplease]

11 minutes ago, LookMaxx said:

 

I wrote that wall of text to explain I can relate to the condition as I’ve been through the same state of mind. Also to explain that sexual effects are mostly psychological and little physical. 

PFS is a purely psychological condition and I say this based on established research. There’s nothing wrong with them physically. 
Read this article

https://www.karger.com/Article/Fulltext/497362

Nocebo effect is on another level with finasteride because the penis is after all a very psychological organ. 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17655657/

In the current study, blinded administration of finasteride was associated with a significantly higher proportion of sexual dysfunction in patients informed on sexual side effects (group 2) as compared to those in which the same information was omitted (group 1) (P = 0.03)

 

It would make sense if you get side effects while the drug is administered but it is extremely illogical to think you get sides after drug is stopped which points to the mind angle as studies prove it.

Do this exercise.

Lay down and focus on your right hand. Keep thinking and repeating my hand is dead, my hand is dead, imagine it rotting gangrenous. Within a few minutes it would feel heavy and different to the other hand and rest of body.

Hand is nowhere near as connected to the brain as our penis is. Do the math yourself and the conclusion is 🤌

If PFS was real phenomenon Merck wouldn’t have been able to get the drug approved it. Strange that this mysterious illness appeared 30? years later when internet discussion forums appeared

 

Once again you are conjecturing based on your personal opinion. As I tried to state in my post, just because we don’t understand a particular condition (in this case, PFS or finasteride indices sexual dysfunction) doesn’t mean that it does not exist or cannot cause persistent or lasting consequences. Just because the standard tests (hormonal markers) don’t show abnormalities, doesn’t mean that there is no pathology with a condition that we don’t understand. I am actually a physician, and you would be shocked at the number of pathophysiologic processes and even medications that we have merely a rudimentary understanding of. 

Sexual function is no doubt heavily impacted by a number of factors, psychology included. No one is arguing that point. But it is multi-factorial, and that does not mean psychology plays a larger role than physiology, endocrinology, vascular health, etc. It’s just one part of the equation.

And did cases of sexual dysfunction only appear many years later with the advent of Internet forums? Or did digital communication just provide the platform to share information and more readily bring these patients’ issues to the foreground? 🤔 

 

 

[GoliGoliGoli]

8 minutes ago, yesplease said:

Just because the standard tests (hormonal markers) don’t show abnormalities, doesn’t mean that there is no pathology with a condition that we don’t understand. I am actually a physician, and you would be shocked at the number of pathophysiologic processes and even medications that we have merely a rudimentary understanding of.

This is a really crucial point. Of the three hard sciences (Physics, Chemistry, Biology) Biology is by far the "softest" of the 3. We have very very very limited understandings of how biological systems work. That's why it gets frustrating talking to people who think a Dr's advice is the be-all-end-all. Yes obviously a Dr knows more about health than your average person, but it doesn't mean he's an expert on every pathology or drug out there. 

No one will ever care about you as much as you do. Therefore you need to do your own research before you take anything a Dr prescribes you whether its a Antibiotic, a Statin, or Fin.

[LookMaxx]

27 minutes ago, yesplease said:

Sexual function is no doubt heavily impacted by a number of factors, psychology included. No one is arguing that point. But it is multi-factorial, and that does not mean psychology plays a larger role than physiology, endocrinology, vascular health, etc. It’s just one part of the equation.

So everything physical is fine in PFS patients, what else is there than psychological? 

It’s interesting isn’t it? You are hellbent on making PFS an abnormality of every other organ except the brain 😁 but the studies actually show everything physical is fine and point to brain as the only explanation.

What’s wrong with admitting that it is a psychological condition? You are a doctor, you must know or have seen patients that were fine physically but imagined something was wrong? No? 

I also don’t know why this narrative is being made my personal opinion, what do I know about PFS patients? This is all what the studies say by researchers that aren’t funded by PFS foundation. 

I also believe it is a real condition that sufferers really experience based on my experience in past, a very embarrassing situation. After my eye surgery, I read online that the tear ducts can get blocked, I was convinced that mine were blocked. The doctor was concerned and checked them out then she was so rude to me because she clearly knew I was imagining and crazy and wasted her time but God knows I felt it so real. I felt things in my tear ducts, I felt pain, and I was angry at the doctor, how dare she think I am crazy and imagining this. I felt pain for so many weeks and months, I don’t remember how but I stopped imagining this probably. When I remember this, I laugh.

You are a doctor, do you know a condition medical students experience? Intern’s syndrome? 

The reason I didn’t get post tear duct syndrome is because unlike the penis, nobody even knows what a tear duct is or their life revolves around it. For the time I was obsessed with it, it was hell. PFS patients are obsessed with their penis dysfunction, no wonder they end up committing suicide or never recover because it is normal to be obsessed with penis. Literally life is food and sex. 

As a doctor you should know this more than me. And don’t encourage this phenomenon 

[LookMaxx]

Reminded me of another funny story. Someone I know had appendix removal surgery many years ago when internet wasn’t a big thing.

He somehow read somewhere or saw on TV that doctors forget their surgical tools in patients. He made a big fuss about it, said he felt needles in his abdomen lol, had to be rushed to the doctor emergency and you know what, nothing. He was fine. Funny enough all his symptoms disappeared when he saw nothing was there on his X-ray. 

I can’t believe someone can become a doctor and practice it and doesn’t see how powerful the mind can be or seen patients that were suffering from such phenomenon. 

Literally there’s a thing called placebo effect and studies have to be blinded to avoid this effect. Yet you are telling me for something as intimate, as personal and thing to be obsessed about as penile/sexual function has no nocebo/placebo effect? Utter BS. You are a doctor I wouldn’t go to because my eye surgeon could’ve wasted my money and time if she pursued my irrational post tear duct syndrome but she was very rude to me after that and told me to stop this BS. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by LookMaxx

[yesplease]

6 minutes ago, LookMaxx said:

Reminded me of another funny story. Someone I know had appendix removal surgery many years ago when internet wasn’t a big thing.

He somehow read somewhere or saw on TV that doctors forget their surgical tools in patients. He made a big fuss about it, said he felt needles in his abdomen lol, had to be rushed to the doctor emergency and you know what, nothing. He was fine. Funny enough all his symptoms disappeared when he saw nothing was there on his X-ray. 

I can’t believe someone can become a doctor and practice it and doesn’t see how powerful the mind can be or seen patients that were suffering from such phenomenon. 

Literally there’s a thing called placebo effect and studies have to be blinded to avoid this effect. Yet you are telling me for something as intimate, as personal and thing to be obsessed about as penile/sexual function has no nocebo/placebo effect? Utter BS. You are a doctor I wouldn’t go to because my eye surgeon could’ve wasted my money and time if she pursued my irrational post tear duct syndrome but she was very rude to me after that and told me to stop this BS. 

I don’t need to belabor our discussion. It is difficult to have a conversation with you about this because you’re clearly not understanding what I’m saying and have your mind made up. 

Obviously I know what placebo and nocebo mean, and have read 100x more peer reviewed medical publications than any non-medical professional. But thank you for the primer on study design. Obviously I know that the brain and psychology are involved in sexual function. Obviously I know that any given person or patient can “imagine” symptoms or misinterpret body signals as symptoms of a disease. 

What I am saying, and what you aren’t grasping, is that just because certain lab markers are OK, or certain literature reviews or studies can’t determine the cause of the pathology, does not mean that everything is fine physically. It can also mean that the medical community doesn’t yet fully understand a medical condition. 

We understand your stance, that sexual side effects and persistent negative health impacts of finasteride are all “in the head” of these patients. You are entitled to your opinion, but I choose to be more open minded and nuanced when looking at this type of discussion. As a physician, I strive to look at complexity with balance, not with my mind made up already (“there just can’t be anything wrong with these people physically!”).

And, no, there aren’t any “studies” that “prove” PFS doesn’t exist or has no physical component. Or at least not to anyone with a more sophisticated understanding of medical literature and the human body. 

This will be my last reply to your posts, as it’s clear you have your mind made up. I’m merely hoping to encourage more open thought and caution with readers so that they can weigh things carefully when considering using this medication. 

[Melvin- Admin]

2 hours ago, yesplease said:

Agree. Hence we need more studies and data.

To be clear, the Xyon product has been examined in exactly zero studies. 
 

Not to say that it isn’t effective or doesn’t minimize systemic uptake. But currently there is no impartial evidence to confirm this. Correct me of I’m wrong, as I may have missed it. 

University of Milan did an impartial study, though the sample size was small. I’m gonna do my own testing my serum DHT before and after with different dosages and frequency to see which is best. 

[LookMaxx]

4 hours ago, yesplease said:

And, no, there aren’t any “studies” that “prove” PFS doesn’t exist or has no physical component. Or at least not to anyone with a more sophisticated understanding of medical literature and the human body. 

 

https://www.karger.com/Article/Fulltext/497362
 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7253896/

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6369643/?report=reader

 

5 hours ago, yesplease said:

but I choose to be more open minded and nuanced when looking at this type of discussion. As a physician, I strive to look at complexity with balance, not with my mind made up already (“there just can’t be anything wrong with these people physically!”).

How? You refuse to entertain the idea that this could simply be psychological. That’s the whole argument between us. 
 

5 hours ago, yesplease said:

This will be my last reply to your posts, as it’s clear you have your mind made up. I’m merely hoping to encourage more open thought and caution with readers so that they can weigh things carefully when considering using this medication. 

By warning them against a cryptic controversial condition pushed by a foundation that wants to sue Merck out of good money that isn’t even recognised by the medical community? 

I am curious how do you run your practice, do you fearmonger your patients with rare controversial sides about every drug that you prescribe? Do not even get me started on this because unlike PFS, I can list real scary rare side effects from common drugs that are prescribed everyday by docs but you know what, the docs don’t mention them. You know why? because nocebo is a real thing and someone who is sick is in a condition very receptive to suggestions.

Anyway I think I have said all that is to be said too so I am going to take my leave from this thread. 
 

peace

[Melvin- Admin]

PFS is not a hoax. I think that’s a dangerous position. It’s rare, but certainly exists, even with the merck studies, men suffered side effects after stopping the treatment. They claim to have followed up, but Reuters claim they did not. 

It’s rare, but the FDA would not force a major pharmaceutical company to change the label for a hoax. 

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-courts-secrecy-propecia/

[sunsurfhair]

11 hours ago, sukh123 said:

You copied this from more plates more dates 

Wrong bro. I don’t even know what more plates more dates is lmao. It was posted on a hair loss site as recommendation for labs to run for hair loss and prior to starting Finasteride. This was it looks like a Hims like site. 
 

https://evolvetelemed.com/store/comprehensive-pre-finasteride-649-66/

 

 

[sunsurfhair]

3 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

PFS is not a hoax. I think that’s a dangerous position. It’s rare, but certainly exists, even with the merck studies, men suffered side effects after stopping the treatment. They claim to have followed up, but Reuters claim they did not. 

It’s rare, but the FDA would not force a major pharmaceutical company to change the label for a hoax. 

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-courts-secrecy-propecia/

That’s right. It’s widely well known Merck actively hid / lied / misled the clinical trial data. PFS is absolutely real there’s no doubt. Why some men get it and some don’t is the bigger question and also the varying level of severity in how hard men are hit. 

[sunsurfhair]

44 minutes ago, LookMaxx said:

 

https://www.karger.com/Article/Fulltext/497362
 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7253896/

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6369643/?report=reader

 

How? You refuse to entertain the idea that this could simply be psychological. That’s the whole argument between us. 
 

By warning them against a cryptic controversial condition pushed by a foundation that wants to sue Merck out of good money that isn’t even recognised by the medical community? 

I am curious how do you run your practice, do you fearmonger your patients with rare controversial sides about every drug that you prescribe? Do not even get me started on this because unlike PFS, I can list real scary rare side effects from common drugs that are prescribed everyday by docs but you know what, the docs don’t mention them. You know why? because nocebo is a real thing and someone who is sick is in a condition very receptive to suggestions.

Anyway I think I have said all that is to be said too so I am going to take my leave from this thread. 
 

peace

You’re an extremely disturbed individual who isn’t paying attention to any of the science or facts. @Melvin- Moderator this guy seriously needs to be banned at this point with the way he is acting to multiple members of the forum, attacking and disseminating factually inaccurate information. 
 

AND fyi bro Merck settled with the members of that case - maybe check your facts and read the news. The PFS foundation isn’t out to sue anyone - they are trying to bring attention, awareness and the science / research to the world on men (and women) seriously injured by Finasteride and even better then that, they are actively funding research on treatment for men who have PFS. I applaud them greatly for that effort.
 

Newsflash, the CEOs (who is a physician) son got horrifically injured by PFS and ended up taking his life at a very young age. Extremely tragic. 

[BigFoot]

Just weigh up the positives and negatives and make your own decision i suppose.

Is fin bad for you long term ? who knows but probably but so is most of the stuff we consume on a daily basis haha

 

[Tommy Vercetti]

Wasn’t going to reply to this thread but I feel like I should. I’m dealing with PFS, going on 4 years now. There are plenty of us out there, a lot of us are probably too embarrassed to speak out or we have and it just ends up with a back and forth pointless argument that goes nowhere.

See the thing is with PFS, once your side effects stick around after you discontinue the medication, there are no doctors in the world that can help, there is no support, you're on your own.

I’m aware it’s different for everyone, some have no side effects and can continue the drug forever, some get sides and stop the drug and they are fine, but that’s not the case for all. 

Now I have no time for someone who wants to disregard what I’m saying or is looking to start a pointless debate, I will not reply. 

We need to stop with this us versus them mentality, it's gone on for well over a decade now. 

Edited August 13, 2022 by Tommy Vercetti

[Joocee]

It's strange to read through this thread. There seems to be an almost cultist psychology among those who are taking the drug.

Whether that's to appease their own subconscious anxiety with regards to taking it and the potential effects, or to persuade others to join them to normalise and share that burden with them, as people feel more comfortable if others are in the same boat, who knows.

As someone in the bio field of study, I certainly would not put your faith in pharmaceutical companies to look after your health, it's a business. I still remember a professor telling me years ago, that if we went onto PhD study, we would never trust anyone again, due to critically evaluating clinical studies/research and the things which go on which violate many ethical/moral codes. Just because trials etc have been done does not mean you will not experience substantial negative outcomes.

Moreover, there are ALWAYS side effects. If you make any change to your biology, whether that be upregulation, inhibition of a pathway/enzyme/protein etc, there is always a cascade of knock on effects. 

The only debate is whether the balance of those effects is positive enough for you to take the drug. Does potentially keeping your hair outweigh the potential negatives. These negatives should not be downplayed since your hormones are absolutely paramount to your biology, substantially reducing DHT is not something you should consider lightly.

It's quite shocking to see how flippant people are about taking finasteride. Would they feel the same about altering DHT in the other direction by injecting anabolics for example? Does the method of adminstration, a simple tablet as opposed to injection, give an impression of less significance of what you're doing? Possibly. 

Edited August 12, 2022 by Joocee

[NARMAK]

I think it's fair to say this thread went off the rails about 3 pages or so back lol. 

I think there's a big misunderstanding in this thread on how pharmaceutical companies sometimes deal with lawsuits and how they label products sometimes pre-emptively to counter lawsuits or in response to them. 

The FDA however is ultimately responsible for allowing a medication to be approved and remain on the market so if Finasteride had an obvious and clearly detrimental impact to males in the way some are making out, it would certainly be evident by now give the drugs been on the market for as long as it has leading it to be banned/withdrawn. 

However, its not and millions of men are on it. The cases of serious and permanent side affects are at best a minority. Going around in circles doesn't change this fact and we also can't extrapolate a small percentage of cases as a guarantee of long term damage. 

Take it, don't take or whatever. Just make sure you actually are looking at the right fact based information to make your own decision as free of bias as possible. 

I personally wish i'd be able to go back in time because i would have started sooner if i could BUT i will preface that by saying i think DHT is important to help complete biological male maturity till we reach Age 25 and so i would certainly look at myself even from age 21 and from what i recall, i was pretty much done by that time so if tests etc. confirmed that, i would have hopped on Finasteride at age 21 myself. For some, waiting till about 25 could be recommended but hair loss is a challenging adversary and you have to weigh up the Pros and Cons. I still personally feel most men will be 95% or more done in the physical development by their early 20s. 

[mavigo]

13 minutes ago, Joocee said:

It's strange to read through this thread. There seems to be an almost cultist psychology among those who are taking the drug.

Whether that's to appease their own subconscious anxiety with regards to taking it and the potential effects, or to persuade others to join them to normalise and share that burden with them, as people feel more comfortable if others are in the same boat, who knows.

As someone in the bio field of study, I certainly would not put your faith in pharmaceutical companies to look after your health, it's a business. I still remember a professor telling me years ago, that if we went onto PhD study, we would never trust anyone again, due to critically evaluating clinical studies/research and the things which go on which violate many ethical/moral codes. Just because trials etc have been done does not mean you will not experience substantial negative outcomes.

Moreover, there are ALWAYS side effects. If you make any change to your biology, whether that be upregulation, inhibition of a pathway/enzyme/protein etc, there is always a cascade of knock on effects. 

The only debate is whether the balance of those effects is positive enough for you to take the drug. Does potentially keeping your hair outweigh the potential negatives. These negatives should not be downplayed since your hormones are absolutely paramount to your biology, substantially reducing DHT is not something you should consider lightly. It's quite shocking to see how flippant people are about taking finasteride, perhaps blinded by their desperation/panic to keep their hair.

The side effects of doing nothing are probably worse no? You make it seem like a person's biology is perfect at birth and it's not. You say not to downplay negatives but you are downplaying the negatives of balding, which is proven to have severe psychological consequences. It's being between a rock and a hard place. 

I agree that thought should be put into taking any medication, but nobody here is illicitly using fin. A doctor told them that the benefits outweighed the negatives and to take it. 

Balding is like any naturally occurring condition, not treating brings risks, treating brings risks as well. 

[NARMAK]

6 minutes ago, mavigo said:

The side effects of doing nothing are probably worse no? You make it seem like a person's biology is perfect at birth and it's not. You say not to downplay negatives but you are downplaying the negatives of balding, which is proven to have severe psychological consequences. It's being between a rock and a hard place. 

I agree that thought should be put into taking any medication, but nobody here is illicitly using fin. A doctor told them that the benefits outweighed the negatives and to take it. 

Balding is like any naturally occurring condition, not treating brings risks, treating brings risks as well. 

People literally poison their bodies everyday with things they don't take concern of. Alcohol, smoking/weed, drugs etc. 

That's before we hit on obesity and so on. I completely agree that the psychological aspects seem to be ignored from the arguments we see put forth but the general consensus is that the majority tolerate the drug well and no significant long term consequences have been noted in large numbers to cause a massive government review of the medication. 

[Joocee]

26 minutes ago, mavigo said:

The side effects of doing nothing are probably worse no? You make it seem like a person's biology is perfect at birth and it's not. You say not to downplay negatives but you are downplaying the negatives of balding, which is proven to have severe psychological consequences. It's being between a rock and a hard place. 

I agree that thought should be put into taking any medication, but nobody here is illicitly using fin. A doctor told them that the benefits outweighed the negatives and to take it. 

Balding is like any naturally occurring condition, not treating brings risks, treating brings risks as well. 

I'm not downplaying the negatives of balding. I've just paid for a hair transplant due to those negatives, I fully understand them. 

I'm saying you need to understand that altering your hormones substantially is a significant decision to make and I think it's being made lightly in the case of finasteride.

There's many posts in this thread downplaying the potential negatives and incidence of such. 

Ultimately it's for each person to decide. You say the side effect of not taking the drug is worse, that's how you evaluate the importance of hair loss in your life, which is your personal decision and that's fine.

I just dont think others should be persuaded or influenced to make the same decision, by posts such as: "it's just 1 pill a day mate, I only have watery semen". This place is already a narrowed down section of society who place enough importance on hair to consider surgery. I think it's a bad thing to effectively have an echo chamber of people promoting use of hormone changing drugs.

 

Edited August 12, 2022 by Joocee

[sukh123]

1 hour ago, Joocee said:

It's strange to read through this thread. There seems to be an almost cultist psychology among those who are taking the drug.

Whether that's to appease their own subconscious anxiety with regards to taking it and the potential effects, or to persuade others to join them to normalise and share that burden with them, as people feel more comfortable if others are in the same boat, who knows.

As someone in the bio field of study, I certainly would not put your faith in pharmaceutical companies to look after your health, it's a business. I still remember a professor telling me years ago, that if we went onto PhD study, we would never trust anyone again, due to critically evaluating clinical studies/research and the things which go on which violate many ethical/moral codes. Just because trials etc have been done does not mean you will not experience substantial negative outcomes.

Moreover, there are ALWAYS side effects. If you make any change to your biology, whether that be upregulation, inhibition of a pathway/enzyme/protein etc, there is always a cascade of knock on effects. 

The only debate is whether the balance of those effects is positive enough for you to take the drug. Does potentially keeping your hair outweigh the potential negatives. These negatives should not be downplayed since your hormones are absolutely paramount to your biology, substantially reducing DHT is not something you should consider lightly.

It's quite shocking to see how flippant people are about taking finasteride. Would they feel the same about altering DHT in the other direction by injecting anabolics for example? Does the method of adminstration, a simple tablet as opposed to injection, give an impression of less significance of what you're doing? Possibly. 

Finasteride doesn’t work for everyone for some it’s a bad decision for others it’s great and stops hair loss . For me it worked out well and so I look at it from a postive perspective . If I had sides ofcourse I would look at it different, that’s just the nature of life. What will I say is majority don’t have side and tolerate it well.

Edited August 12, 2022 by sukh123

[sukh123]

37 minutes ago, Joocee said:

I'm not downplaying the negatives of balding. I've just paid for a hair transplant due to those negatives, I fully understand them. 

I'm saying you need to understand that altering your hormones substantially is a significant decision to make and I think it's being made lightly in the case of finasteride.

There's many posts in this thread downplaying the potential negatives and incidence of such. 

Ultimately it's for each person to decide. You say the side effect of not taking the drug is worse, that's how you evaluate the importance of hair loss in your life, which is your personal decision and that's fine.

I just dont think others should be persuaded or influenced to make the same decision, by posts such as: "it's just 1 pill a day mate, I only have watery semen". This place is already a narrowed down section of society who place enough importance on hair to consider surgery. I think it's a bad thing to effectively have an echo chamber of people promoting use of hormone changing drugs.

 

“Substantially” , have you ever had your bloods taken prior or during fin ? I been taking it for a year and albeit my dht which I don’t even bother to test because I know it’s reduced, my hormonal markers are all similar to , prior starting fin. Infact my testosterone increased slightly compared to my baseline. And I do these tests every three months

Edited August 12, 2022 by sukh123

[Joocee]

1 minute ago, sukh123 said:

“Substantially” , have you ever had your bloods taken prior or during fin ? I been taking it for a year and albeit my dht which I don’t even bother to test because I know it’s reduced, my hormonal markers are all similar to , prior starting fin. Infact my testosterone increased slightly compared to my baseline. And I do these tests every three months.

The hormone effected/in question here is DHT, yet your defence of finasteride safety is you test for other unrelated markers and don't look at DHT. 

Its the equivalent to a drug inhibiting zinc absorption and you saying "well my vitamin A is ok". 

Just absurd, and this is why people should not be persuaded or influenced to make that decision by your experience. 

[sukh123]

6 minutes ago, Joocee said:

The hormone effected/in question here is DHT, yet your defence of finasteride safety is you test for other unrelated markers and don't look at DHT. 

Its the equivalent to a drug inhibiting zinc absorption and you saying "well my vitamin A is ok". 

Just absurd, and this is why people should not be persuaded or influenced to make that decision by your experience. 

You said “altering your hormones” , if you did your research you would know fin as a result of reducing dht has an effect on your testosterone, estrogeon , lh and fsh which is why having them at optimum levels when your older can negate the reduction in dht. Which is why it’s important to get them tested . The drug is not for everyone and for most doesn’t cause sides , but the only way to know is to try it. If you get sides you can stop it . But you have to live with the fact you will keep balding and advance quicker to higher norwoods . No one wants to have a hair transplant which is far from certain it’s going to work and also neglecting the fact if you keep losing hair you need to keep getting more and donor is finite  and might not be able to support that

Edited August 12, 2022 by sukh123