Dr. Alan Feller Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 Suspense is killing me doc, I have no idea which is which. It probably has something to with the bleeding, but I have no idea why. . For my first FUT procedure, I bled a lot, so looked like a zombie afterwards. My best guess would be that the bloodied one is FUT as there is more protective tissue surrounding the grafts which means the incisions had to be larger resulting in more blood, or the flip side and the more bloodied one is the FUE as damaged grafts had to be forced in? Wow! I am truly fascinated by these answers and thinking processes. It seems you and Lileli think along the same lines. And if you two think a certain way, then probably a great percentage of the population thinks that way, too. So interesting. Can I tell you that I didn't even notice the difference in the amount of blood between the two. By the way, both photos shot at the same exact amount of time after surgery. I'm not going to give the answer yet, but I will say that the amount of blood will give absolutely no indication of the answer. Do you believe that FUE grafts are more prone to damage than FUT grafts ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Alan Feller Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 so if your clinic is saying there are up 7 detrimental reason why not to do FUE into hairlines then why are you doing them, surely that means there isn't 7 detrimental reasons I"m not sure what the 7 detrimental reasons are. I usually only mention the top three. Regardless, I will perform an FUE on a patient, even in the hairline, if and only if they listen intently to the differences between the performance of the two procedures, their expected yield differences, and the amount of donor scarring expected. Then they have to sign an Informed Consent form that says flat out that they were informed of FUT and rejected it. Then and only then will I perform an FUE. And, of course, I have to believe it will make a cosmetically significant difference or only strip or mFUE will be offered. I don't begrudge clinics performing FUE to any extent, as long as it is appropriate based on the knowable physiology AND they have give proper Informed Consent which actively includes a clause stating they reject FUT in no uncertain terms. Make sense? Give it another shot Seth. Which is which ? And which do you think grew better in the end ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Alan Feller Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 Hahaha. Come on doc. The jig is up. Anyway, I haven't seen evidence of it. But that doesn't mean it isn't possible. Are you saying you may have a small doubt and that FUE yields may not generally be on par with FUT yields ? What jig are you referring to ? You can be honest, I promise to not be offended. What do you think I"m concealing; or, what angle do you think I"m playing ? Speaking of playing, are you sticking to your answer that the right one is the FUE ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member mav23100gunther Posted September 2, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted September 2, 2015 Wow! I am truly fascinated by these answers and thinking processes. It seems you and Lileli think along the same lines. And if you two think a certain way, then probably a great percentage of the population thinks that way, too. So interesting. Can I tell you that I didn't even notice the difference in the amount of blood between the two. By the way, both photos shot at the same exact amount of time after surgery. I'm not going to give the answer yet, but I will say that the amount of blood will give absolutely no indication of the answer. Do you believe that FUE grafts are more prone to damage than FUT grafts ? Welcome into the mind of your average Joe! Yes doctor, based on the information that has been presented to me, at this point in time I am going to trust that FUE grafts are more prone to damage until such time as this can be proven otherwise. I'm not going to opine on this, but I take no chances and FUT is tried and tested. I am not discounting that this could be an incorrect assumption in the hands of a Lorenzo or Erdogan, but all the evidence is pointing me to the fact that an FUT by the likes of Dr Ron Shapiro, Dr Hasson, Dr Rahal will be safer than any FUE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Sethticles Posted September 2, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted September 2, 2015 Regardless, I will perform an FUE on a patient, even in the hairline, confusing information coming out of the F&B clinic, one says no the other says yes. Id say the right is FUE, only because of the red skin, which looks the same as what my skin looked after my HT the left seems lighter red, is the redness a bad thing or a good thing June 2013 - 3000 FUE Dr Bhatti Oct 2013 - 1000 FUE Dr Bhatti Oct 2015 - 785 FUE Dr Bhatti Dr. Bhatti's Recommendation Profile on the Hair Transplant Network My story and photos can be seen here http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/Sethticles/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Alan Feller Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 Welcome into the mind of your average Joe! Yes doctor, based on the information that has been presented to me, at this point in time I am going to trust that FUE grafts are more prone to damage until such time as this can be proven otherwise. I'm not going to opine on this, but I take no chances and FUT is tried and tested. I am not discounting that this could be an incorrect assumption in the hands of a Lorenzo or Erdogan, but all the evidence is pointing me to the fact that an FUT by the likes of Dr Ron Shapiro, Dr Hasson, Dr Rahal will be safer than any FUE. Fair enough. Are you sticking with your answer as far as which is which ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member mav23100gunther Posted September 2, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted September 2, 2015 I've got it - the right picture is FUT as there appears to be more coverage and what looks like more grafts implanted. Even though the same number of grafts were extracted, some from the FUE procedure got damaged and were never transplanted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Alan Feller Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 confusing information coming out of the F&B clinic, one says no the other says yes. Id say the right is FUE, only because of the red skin, which looks the same as what my skin looked after my HT the left seems lighter red, is the redness a bad thing or a good thing As far as I know Dr. Bloxham and I are in agreement on our FUE hairline view. But I'm sure he'll chime in somewhere to clarify his position. But I don't want to get away from the "which is which" game. You are now the third person to refer to the redness or bloodiness to assess the situation. So fascinating. Do you know I don't think any HT doctor would even notice the difference between the two in these terms? As Mav noted, I am learning a lot about how the average poster perceives post operative photos. The redness means nothing. It's neither bad nor good, so not to worry. So let's say your answer is the right one is FUE. I'm not going to say the answer yet, but I'm going to say I like the reason you used to pick the photo to the right and I will touch on it when I give the answer. Now let's let a few more people give their answers and reasons then I'll reveal the actual answer tomorrow night. And assuming Dr. Bloxham and I have time after surgeries tomorrow we will make a video that includes both cases grown out and the details of each surgery. Thanks for playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Alan Feller Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 I've got it - the right picture is FUT as there appears to be more coverage and what looks like more grafts implanted. Even though the same number of grafts were extracted, some from the FUE procedure got damaged and were never transplanted? Again, I amazed by the thought process. I hope you're having fun with this because I truly am. I get your reasoning and it's excellent, but in my clinic I do not count and bill for the number of grafts extracted or attempted, I only count the grafts that were extracted intact and passed individual inspection by one of my techs and is actually implanted. So in each photo you are truly seeing the same number of grafts in each. But you are getting warmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member mav23100gunther Posted September 2, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted September 2, 2015 Again, I amazed by the thought process. I hope you're having fun with this because I truly am. I get your reasoning and it's excellent, but in my clinic I do not count and bill for the number of grafts extracted or attempted, I only count the grafts that were extracted intact and passed individual inspection by one of my techs and is actually implanted. So in each photo you are truly seeing the same number of grafts in each. But you are getting warmer. Dammit, I thought I had it there. Does the winner get a free FUT procedure from your clinic? You know I had to ask Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member mav23100gunther Posted September 2, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted September 2, 2015 My final answer is still that the right side is FUT as its appears to be a larger coverage area. For the FUE procedure, it's a smaller coverage area, but you had to use the same number of grafts to compensate for lower growth on FUE. For the FUT procedure you were more comfortable using the same number of grafts over a larger area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Matt27 Posted September 2, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted September 2, 2015 Are you saying you may have a small doubt and that FUE yields may not generally be on par with FUT yields ? What jig are you referring to ? You can be honest, I promise to not be offended. What do you think I"m concealing; or, what angle do you think I"m playing ? Speaking of playing, are you sticking to your answer that the right one is the FUE ? I haven't really researched FUT because I don't consider it an option for me. I am sure FUE yields are a bit lower, but not by enough for me to stress about it. I already stated what I think your angle is (disparaging FUE; possibly suggesting that the right patient had his grafts more densely packed to compensate for lower yield), but I could be wrong. And yeah I'll stick with my initial prediction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Alan Feller Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 Dammit, I thought I had it there. Does the winner get a free FUT procedure from your clinic? You know I had to ask Perhaps an mFUE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member 1978matt Posted September 2, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted September 2, 2015 Left FUE, Right FUT. Headband seems lower on the left so I will guess he had to go with a higher hairline to compensate for fewer lifetime grafts? 4,312 FUT grafts (7,676 hairs) with Ray Konior, MD - August 2013 1,145 FUE grafts (3,152 hairs) with Ray Konior, MD - August 2018 763 FUE grafts (2,094 hairs) with Ray Konior, MD - January 2020 Proscar 1.25mg every 3rd day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Alan Feller Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 My final answer is still that the right side is FUT as its appears to be a larger coverage area. For the FUE procedure, it's a smaller coverage area, but you had to use the same number of grafts to compensate for lower growth on FUE. For the FUT procedure you were more comfortable using the same number of grafts over a larger area. You'll just have to wait until tomorrow night to find out. Tonight you can dream about a free mFUE. Think about it: the yields of a strip but no linear scar. OOPS, there's that sly marketing campaign again ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member mav23100gunther Posted September 2, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted September 2, 2015 Perhaps an mFUE even if I'm not stripped out yet and already have the linier scar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Alan Feller Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 I haven't really researched FUT because I don't consider it an option for me. I am sure FUE yields are a bit lower, but not by enough for me to stress about it. I already stated what I think your angle is (disparaging FUE; possibly suggesting that the right patient had his grafts more densely packed to compensate for lower yield), but I could be wrong. And yeah I'll stick with my initial prediction. Don't sell yourself short. You may well be right about Which is Which. But my angle really isn't to disparage FUE. That's a wrong impression of me. My angle is to be successful and to produce as many great results as possible given what I have to work with. Happy patients mean more patients tomorrow. Dissatisfied patients mean fewer patients tomorrow. That's my simple philosophy. Ok, you're answer is noted. I shall reveal all tomorrow night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Alan Feller Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 even if I'm not stripped out yet and already have the linier scar? Yes. When I started doing mFUE it was exactly in patients like you. The kind where another strip wasn't possible and the FUE yield was awful due to fibrosis. But I really am not here to market that. We will roll that out as more of our patients come back and show their results. Did you see Dr. Lindsey's presentation in the old FUT vs FUE vs mFUE thread ? Very eye opening. Until tomorrow night. I'm calling it a night. So good night. Dr. Feller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Alan Feller Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 Left FUE, Right FUT. Headband seems lower on the left so I will guess he had to go with a higher hairline to compensate for fewer lifetime grafts? Another unique piece of reasoning. You guys are really making this thread a pleasure ! Ok Matt, your answer is noted. We shall see tomorrow night. Thanks for playing "Which is Which" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member MrMatt Posted September 2, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted September 2, 2015 Originally Posted by MrMatt View PostI don't believe which procedure can truly be determined by photos especially at that angle since it's the extraction of the two techniques, not the placement that sets them apart. Good thinking. That SHOULD be true. But it isn't...if you know what you are looking for between the two photos. Give yourself a moment to just look at the two and compare the differences. It will come to you as the differences are fairly obvious. Dr. Feller, Are you saying a person can look at virtually an post opt HT photo showing only the recipient area & tell if it is FUT or FUE, if they know what they're looking for, or just these two ? Everything I've read so far gave me the impression that the grafts from both procedures were planted basically the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Yaz89 Posted September 2, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted September 2, 2015 Left is FUT. Right is FUE. The right image clearly resembles my own FUE procedure. Shiny red and blooded. Left has to be FUT as the grafts have more tissue and are more intact. Yaz the original Asmed patient (2013) 2400 FUE grafts October 2013 http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/172963-my-journey-hair-transplant-dr-koray-erdogan-2400-grafts-prp-08-10-2013-a.html 2490 grafts April 2016 http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/183247-dr-koray-erdogan-asmed-april-13th-2016-2490-grafts-total-4892-grafts.html Propecia since October 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Yonex Posted September 2, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted September 2, 2015 i'm going left FUT and right FUE Why? Because I think the guy on the left will need more lifetime grafts so you decided to go FUT first to obtain those Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member voxman Posted September 2, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted September 2, 2015 Easy. The old guy got the FUT and the young guy got the FUE. I'm serious. Just look at my face. My Hair Regimen: Lather, Rinse, Repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member BadBeat Posted September 2, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted September 2, 2015 Why even bother to play this "game?" It's just another avenue for him to push his agenda. I guarantee you when he reveals the answer it will have some spin that suggests FUE is inferior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Blake Bloxham Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Some of these answers are awesome. I would have never thought of several of these issues, but they are very interesting! Vox, That made me "laugh out loud." Not very proud of myself for actually "LOLing IRL," but thank you regardless. Dr. Blake Bloxham is recommended by the Hair Transplant Network. Hair restoration physician - Feller and Bloxham Hair Transplantation Previously "Future_HT_Doc" or "Blake_Bloxham" - forum co-moderator and editorial assistant for the Hair Transplant Network, Hair Restoration Network, Hair Loss Q&A blog, and Hair Loss Learning Center. Click here to read my previous answers to hair loss and hair restoration questions, editorials, commentaries, and educational articles. Now practicing hair transplant surgery with Coalition hair restoration physician Dr Alan Feller at our New York practice: Feller and Bloxham Hair Transplantation. Please note: my advice does not constitute as medical advice. All medical questions and concerns should be addressed by a personal physician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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