FUE scarring vs. FUT scarring

[JohnCasper]

After reading several posts regarding scarring from surgery I thought I would post a picture that was recently taken of my left donor area in January of this year. Two years ago I had 5,125 grafts transplanted and a large number of these came from the area shown in the picture.

 

I can see no visible scarring in my left donor area. This is exactly why I chose FUE vs. FUT. I can appreciate everyone's procedural decision but it was an easy decision for me to opt for no visible scarring through FUE versus the lengthy scar from FUT.

 

I certainly welcome your thoughts!

[Squatch]

After reading several posts regarding scarring from surgery I thought I would post a picture that was recently taken of my left donor area in January of this year. Two years ago I had 5,125 grafts transplanted and a large number of these came from the area shown in the picture.

 

I can see no visible scarring in my left donor area. This is exactly why I chose FUE vs. FUT. I can appreciate everyone's procedural decision but it was an easy decision for me to opt for no visible scarring through FUE versus the lengthy scar from FUT.

 

I certainly welcome your thoughts!

Why is this picture from this year? Did you just have another procedure?

[JohnCasper]

This picture was taken last month, minutes before I had a second 2,000 graft procedure. My first procedure (5,125 grafts) was done in September 2012.

[BUSA]

yea almost seems like a no brainer but FUT is far cheaper and I guess ppl who keep their hair long don't mind. the work from H&W and a few other great clinics and or surgeons almost always produce results with a perfectly fine healing scar.

 

but..... it is a gamble I agree. one that I wud not take but I cut my hair short so its not an option for me.

 

some don't want to travel to Europe and due to the outrageous pricing for FUE in the states ppl are forced to chose FUT cause who can afford $6-$10 a graft when they need 4000-6000 grafts which is a lot of ppl.

[srik]

FUT: I have a basic question about the FUT scar. Does the scar become wider/thinnner in time? Or would it mostly remain the same in width? Or does it vary from person?

 

FUE: Doesnot the donor appear thinner after it is lets say overharvested?

 

Sorry for my basic questions. I am just trying to understand the pros and cons of FUE and FUT

[Squatch]

This picture was taken last month, minutes before I had a second 2,000 graft procedure. My first procedure (5,125 grafts) was done in September 2012.

Okay. Thanks!

[Squatch]

Here is an example of a FUT. The first one is at 3 weeks. The second one is at 3.5 months. My doctor used a tricophytic closure. Hair is growing through the scar line. It is hard to see my scar at 3.5 months. This is where I am now. I would imagine it would disappear even more in the future. I chose FUT because I am a good candidate. I would suggest not going to a hack to get a FUT or a FUE. A good surgeon is the key. Do your homework on what will yield the best results either way. You will see every bad example on the forum. I would hope this thread doesn't become a pissing match and turn nasty but.... I'm sure it's just wishful thinking.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Squatch

[scar5]

FUT: I have a basic question.... Does the scar become wider/thinnner in time? ...

Sorry for my basic questions.

 

No, basically a('the scar') doesn't become wider b('in time').

The scar will stretch for about 8 months (in my experience. (1988-2009))

 

But what is 'A = the scar'?

 

Once you do strip (..eh..sorry FUT - all FUE is FUT but WTF?) you are committed to it. You will do more strips to keep up with your hairloss. If you switch to FUE and you already have a huge ear-to-ear scar across the back of your head, (basically telling everybody that you have had a hair transplant and that you are desperately vain) ..why not just cut it open again? Why bother with FUE? Strip gives you a better yield. A better 'bang-for-buck' and that is always a good thing for you and your adversary. It is always good to know that your crown is balding everyday, but you cannot buzz your head because you have a strip scar. Know what I mean?

 

With FUE you have less frontal 'bang' hair, but you might get more crown hair and an overall undetectable look as you age. You might be able to sit at the bar as a balding 50 year old and laugh at other people and their vanity. (On the other hand, you may be able o sit at home with your beautiful wife, kids fantastic salary - thanks to the strip job that saved you in the nick of time..

 

Now, the rep/doc/clinic will tell you there are no guarantees with the scar, either with the first, and especially with the second or third.

Edited February 20, 2015 by scar5
it is fair to say, a stich in time, saves nine

[JohnCasper]

FUE: Doesnot the donor appear thinner after it is lets say overharvested?

 

Responding to "Sric".... I'm attaching two pictures taken recently of my donor area 14 days and 40 days after my recent surgery. Keep in mind, I had over 5,000 grafts (many from this same area) taken two years ago.

 

I'm relatively new to posting pictures on the HTN. I have no idea why the pictures are posted this way. I couldn't figure out how to rotate them once they were uploaded. Maybe someone can help? Thanks!

[JoeTillman]

John,

I can appreciate your points about the scarring but I think that you are misrepresenting the reality of your case and how it may or may not apply to others.

 

I can see no visible scarring in my left donor area.

 

Maybe it's because I've got more experience with this issue or maybe I'm just being more honest than the casual observing member, but I see a lot of scarring in your photo. Is it as obvious as a linear scar? Of course not, but it is there nonetheless and I see two issues.

 

1.) The dots are obvious to me. Even with the low light and lack of contrast and focus I can see them.

 

2.) The confluence of scarring is more obvious. I can see the areas between hairs that have more normal skin tone and then the splotches of scarring as evidenced by the lighter tones.

 

I know the point is to sell surgeries for Dr. Vories since you are now the representative for him (congratulations by the way) but it is precisely because of posts like yours that I continue to receive emails from patients that feel they were duped because they were told by their respective doctors that they will have no visible scarring so they can shave as short as they wish or they deduced that this would be the case because of the multiple posts like this one where the poster says "no visible scarring" while their head is shaved. The photos almost always tell a story different than that of reality and I can clearly see in your photo that this is one such case.

 

Regarding your last photo that is used to show your donor thinning, or lack thereof, this too is misleading. I see a strong demarcation between the donor zone on the right side of the images and the temporal zone on the left side of the images. This demarcation is shown as what almost looks like a "line". This is a direct result of having had so many FUE extractions where the pattern was abruptly ended. A feathering of the pattern on both ends of the extraction zone would alleviate this but the image shows that your donor has in fact been thinned. The math would show this obviously but so do your photos.

 

I really like FUE and I love the option that it gives patients. At the same time however I'm a realist and even more so now that I no longer represent the interests of a single clinic I plan to point out the issues that many others gloss over. Any surgery that removes hair from one's head is going to leave visible evidence in some circumstances. Once you're cut, you're cut and this means that your head will never be the same, FUT and FUE alike.

[Sean]

John, thats was a lot of grafts taken from a localized zone for fue, but even with that many, it is not too too bad. Especially, at that length. I have donor shockloss halo throughout still but i am hoping it resolved. That said, fut scar is different as it is distinct line. A line from left to right. It is a dead giveaway for a transplant. I did a research poll for bio class in college questioning average students That most likely had no knowledge of hair transplantss. One question i asked to these folks that didnt need a hair restoration is, how could you tell if someone had a a transplant. Their answer was they have lines on the back of their head or smiley faces etc. That made me realize the public knows and that would be a dead giveaway of a ht procedure if i were to ever cut my hair short. Thats why i went fue, it was assuring that Doc said his fue matched his fut rate in terms of yield.

 

One other thing that concerned me with fut at the time was the directional angle of the hairs in donor once strip is cut. Will it be sideways pulled to one side or what? Will it cause issues for fue extractions later due to altered skin angulation? Etc etc

 

But regardless, imo FUE a less harsh technique in terms of donor area extraction. You can cut across the nerves once or you can do small holes hoping dome nerves near by regenerate. At least i can feel the back of my head versus a family member of mine who got fut and has breaks in feeling and numbness.

 

Great thread and thanks for sharing your experience.

[Squatch]

John, thats was a lot of grafts taken from a localized zone for fue, but even with that many, it is not too too bad. Especially, at that length. I have donor shockloss halo throughout still but i am hoping it resolved. That said, fut scar is different as it is distinct line. A line from left to right. It is a dead giveaway for a transplant. I did a research poll for bio class in college questioning average students That most likely had no knowledge of hair transplantss. One question i asked to these folks that didnt need a hair restoration is, how could you tell if someone had a a transplant. Their answer was they have lines on the back of their head or smiley faces etc. That made me realize the public knows and that would be a dead giveaway of a ht procedure if i were to ever cut my hair short. Thats why i went fue, it was assuring that Doc said his fue matched his fut rate in terms of yield.

 

One other thing that concerned me with fut at the time was the directional angle of the hairs in donor once strip is cut. Will it be sideways pulled to one side or what? Will it cause issues for fue extractions later due to altered skin angulation? Etc etc

 

But regardless, imo FUE a less harsh technique in terms of donor area extraction. You can cut across the nerves once or you can do small holes hoping dome nerves near by regenerate. At least i can feel the back of my head versus a family member of mine who got fut and has breaks in feeling and numbness.

 

Great thread and thanks for sharing your experience.

This is why I put forth my example. I have none of the issues you are stating. I have all the feeling in my donor zone and my hair is growing fine. I agree you will see a scar line if I buzzed my head. I wont ever buzz my head though. This is why I had a ht to begin with. I'm seeing more and more threads pop up with FUE donor zone issues as of late. Which was a shock to me also. I would have thought it was easier on the scalp as well. I have no skin in the game here (no pun intended). I'm just saying.... Both can be achieved with good and bad results.

Edited February 21, 2015 by Squatch

[Spanker]

7000 grafts it's quite impressive. Looking forward to seeing some results. I agree with Joe that there IS visible scarring and the harvest zone is obvious to my eye. That said, "regular" people don't look through the same lens as we (ht patients) do. The recipient does look good, with a very low visible scar. Congrats.

[BUSA]

I'm seeing more and more threads pop up with FUE donor zone issues as of late.

really? why don't you post a few of them threads ur referring to so the rest of us can see cause I have yet to see ANY FUE threads in the last year where the donor zone as u state was problematic.

 

wen referring to scarring wen comparing FUE vs. FUT its not even in the same universe as far as bad scaring. ppl come up here on a regular basis looking for an FUE surgeon to repair their FUT scar.

 

wen was the last time you saw an FUE patient looking for FUT to repair their poorly healed scaring?

[Squatch]

really? why don't you post a few of them threads ur referring to so the rest of us can see cause I have yet to see ANY FUE threads in the last year where the donor zone as u state was problematic.

 

wen referring to scarring wen comparing FUE vs. FUT its not even in the same universe as far as bad scaring. ppl come up here on a regular basis looking for an FUE surgeon to repair their FUT scar.

 

wen was the last time you saw an FUE patient looking for FUT to repair their poorly healed scaring?

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/142085-terrible-pain-donor-area-after-fue-procedure.html

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/178347-donor-area-pain-6-months-post-op-fue.html

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/171181-donor-area-pain-after-fue.html

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/177661-help-serious-pain-after-fue-procedure.html

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/176702-donor-area-pain.html

[BUSA]

 

 

Maybe it's because I've got more experience with this issue or maybe I'm just being more honest than the casual observing member, but I see a lot of scarring in your photo. Is it as obvious as a linear scar? Of course not, but it is there nonetheless and I see two issues.

 

1.) The dots are obvious to me. Even with the low light and lack of contrast and focus I can see them.

 

2.) The confluence of scarring is more obvious. I can see the areas between hairs that have more normal skin tone and then the splotches of scarring as evidenced by the lighter tones.

 

I know the point is to sell surgeries for Dr. Vories since you are now the representative for him (congratulations by the way) but it is precisely because of posts like yours that I continue to receive emails from patients that feel they were duped because they were told by their respective doctors that they will have no visible scarring so they can shave as short as they wish or they deduced that this would be the case because of the multiple posts like this one where the poster says "no visible scarring" while their head is shaved. The photos almost always tell a story different than that of reality and I can clearly see in your photo that this is one such case.

 

Regarding your last photo that is used to show your donor thinning, or lack thereof, this too is misleading. I see a strong demarcation between the donor zone on the right side of the images and the temporal zone on the left side of the images. This demarcation is shown as what almost looks like a "line". This is a direct result of having had so many FUE extractions where the pattern was abruptly ended. A feathering of the pattern on both ends of the extraction zone would alleviate this but the image shows that your donor has in fact been thinned. The math would show this obviously but so do your photos.

 

I really like FUE and I love the option that it gives patients. At the same time however I'm a realist and even more so now that I no longer represent the interests of a single clinic I plan to point out the issues that many others gloss over. Any surgery that removes hair from one's head is going to leave visible evidence in some circumstances. Once you're cut, you're cut and this means that your head will never be the same, FUT and FUE alike.

cmon Joe lets be realistic here. there is absolutely zero evidence of a HT here to the general public and that is wat matters. not that you happen to see demarcation that no one else sees.

 

and I totally disagree that a HT will always leave visible scaring. BIG difference between carving a chunk of flesh from one head and then suturing it up with stitches. THAT I agree will always leave evidence of a HT if the hair is cut short enough.

 

the same cannot be said wen referring to FUE. again, wat we are referring to is the general public who is not overly examining one head.

 

those who have had or need at HT and are experienced in this field will always look for some evidence and wen you KNOW someone had a HT of course you will find some evidence cause ur looking for it.

 

but I've seen plenty of ppl with simply thiner hair in the back giving the appearance of thinning

out due to FUE wen they have NEVER had FUE. the same mistake cannot be make with a liner scar.

 

and FUE scaring does NOT stretch over time. the same cannot be said for an FUT scar. THAT is a role of the dice.... yea yea we all know anytime u cut the skin it will scar but that doesn't mean it will be evident and to state that ALL hair transplants leave evidence of scaring is simply non sense.

[BUSA]

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/142085-terrible-pain-donor-area-after-fue-procedure.html

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/178347-donor-area-pain-6-months-post-op-fue.html

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/171181-donor-area-pain-after-fue.html

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/177661-help-serious-pain-after-fue-procedure.html

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/176702-donor-area-pain.html

ummm yea its SURGERY and ur supposed to have some discomfort. ok, now post some threads where ppl are further out then a week....:rolleyes: and having some discomfort is quite normal. how uncomfortable do u think the FUT injury is with sutures across the back of ur head?

[Squatch]

I hope this thread doesn't become a pissing match and turn nasty but.... I'm sure it's just wishful thinking.

 

I rest my case!

By the way the second link. I was also having a civil discussion about nerve issues with Sean.

Edited February 23, 2015 by Squatch

[JoeTillman]

cmon Joe lets be realistic here. there is absolutely zero evidence of a HT here to the general public and that is wat matters. not that you happen to see demarcation that no one else sees.

 

and I totally disagree that a HT will always leave visible scaring. BIG difference between carving a chunk of flesh from one head and then suturing it up with stitches. THAT I agree will always leave evidence of a HT if the hair is cut short enough.

 

the same cannot be said wen referring to FUE. again, wat we are referring to is the general public who is not overly examining one head.

 

those who have had or need at HT and are experienced in this field will always look for some evidence and wen you KNOW someone had a HT of course you will find some evidence cause ur looking for it.

 

but I've seen plenty of ppl with simply thiner hair in the back giving the appearance of thinning

out due to FUE wen they have NEVER had FUE. the same mistake cannot be make with a liner scar.

 

and FUE scaring does NOT stretch over time. the same cannot be said for an FUT scar. THAT is a role of the dice.... yea yea we all know anytime u cut the skin it will scar but that doesn't mean it will be evident and to state that ALL hair transplants leave evidence of scaring is simply non sense.

 

Busa,

 

John Casper said he sees no visible scarring. He is a professional working in the surgical hair restoration industry. You may be talking about the general public but John Casper is talking about himself. Those are two separate issues. Don't confuse the two.

 

and I totally disagree that a HT will always leave visible scaring.

 

Where did I say it "always" does? Visible scarring? In every day life scenarios? No, of course not.

 

Furthermore, why the comparison to FUT scarring? It has no value or impact on the discussion and is completely irrelevant. It's almost as if you are reading a different thread.

 

And your misguided, if not mistaken, efforts for debate have no relevance to the patients that actually have a problem with this issue. I've spoken to several that were told they could shave as short as they wish after having FUE only to find that they felt self-conscious about their appearance when they tried to due to the EXACT issue I pointed out with John's case. As hair loss sufferers we are hyper-sensitive to every issue that WE perceive as being negative for the appearance of our hair. The public??? The public would not notice a thing but I can't count how many times I've spoken to a patient where they told me THEY care about what their hair looks like and even though they know the public may not notice THEY do. And if they do then that is all that matters as it makes them feel uncomfortable....wait for it....... IN PUBLIC.

 

John Casper's donor scarring screams at me and this is with a fairly poor photo. With color correction and added contrast the issue looks much worse. I have one of the best eyes in the industry for this kind of thing, and I readily admit that I see more than the average guy, but others see it too and aren't saying anything. This is evidenced by the fact that I was the first to actually say something, and then Sean and Spanker came out with their agreement because they see it too.

 

Again, the issue of whether the public sees it or we see it are two different issues but when the patient sees it on their own head regardless of what the public sees, (or John Casper sees for that matter), THAT is when it becomes a problem and no amount of comparing it to a strip scar will change that.

[KO]

I personally do not see scarring, but I am not as experienced as the other posters here. I do notice the redness and gaps though. But it may not pop out necessarily to observers.

 

I think this is an interesting comparison for donors. This guy had a bit of a see-through donor before surgery. What do you guys think of his donor post op? (This is a real question, not trying to argue any FUT vs FUE debate here)

 

 

 

Before: T = 12

 

 

After T=48

 

The donor to me looks thin both before and after, just curious if more eagle eyed members can tell if there is scarring.

Edited February 24, 2015 by KO

[BaldingBogger]

Looking at your picture i would agree compared to a Strip scar there is no comparison to the scarring there. The key thing is looking at your head shaved it will never attract casual eye drift that 'something is up' from any regular observer. Your head even shaved looks totally normal.

 

Put a strip scar on there and you WILL get eye drift when your hair is short.

 

I can kind of see some white marks when i look close but i got to look close and can only real tell as i have had FUE myself to recognise it.

 

I would totally concur and for that exact reason i went also with FUE.

[scar5]

Once you're cut, you're cut and this means that your head will never be the same, FUT and FUE alike.

 

Yeah, but who's gonna know if you don't tell them, right?

 

Misleading rhetoric

Conflating the scarring of FUE/FUT ala- 'they both scar, nothing's for free in life, pick your posion..etc..etc.'

 

This was the gold standard that kept strip profitable in the states for so long

 

My donor is totally wrecked from over harvested FUE, and multiple strip scars, yet is only the strip scars that are the giveaway. (SMP has done well to hide the lines themselves at certain lengths but the buckled skin around them still draws the eye. )

Edited February 25, 2015 by scar5
FUE/FUT

[hairweare]

Evaluating the FUE donor area one month post is pointless. It takes at least four months for the area to recover. I know that my donor zone looked far better after 4 months and when shaved at 8 months for my second procedure there were no visible white dots or any appearance of an earlier surgery. Even looking under the microscope it was hard to discern a difference. I think that I also have a fairly keen eye for these things.

[JohnCasper]

Thanks for everyone's response and I truly value your opinions and support. I'm sure with a well trained eye, some may be able to see small dot scarring in my FUE, but more importantly, I do not see the scarring nor does anyone else I've ever asked. I'm very open about my HT and glad to hear everyone's thoughts and opinions. The pictures I posted were very soon after my most recent surgery. The existing hair in my donor area more than covers any evidence of scarring. I'll post more pictures later as my hair continues to grow throughout the donor areas. The bottom line.... I was thrilled with the results in 2012 and very happy so far after only 48 days since my latest surgery.

[BUSA]

I know for a fact I can post over 20 different threads pertaining to poor FUT scaring or those looking to repair their FUT scar with FUE. I have saved them in a separate folder.

 

I don't have ANY examples of someone getting FUE and looking for an FUT surgeon to repair them tho.