mikeyhwk

I'd agree that 4k donors in his supply would be from the pictures look to be a stretch but he isn't exactly tapped out either, he's probably comfortably in the 1500-2k range and possibly more donors, shaving it down does make it harder to get a perfect picture of what is available so his docs would know best. Also 6k grafts from a fue isn't unheard of anymore. Not everybodies donors can handle that but there are certainly doctors able to get those numbers if the donors are supplying them. Check out my boy Gatsu here http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/187515-2987grafts-dr-lupanzula.html he's 6500 in and he's still got 3k in the bank with very ethical drs. I myself am 4600 in and Dr Lorenzo estimates with his coverage value system ( same one Erdogan uses) that I could push it to another 10k grafts. I know the numbers seem unheard of and I'll be honest I don't want to test it by going anywhere near that far in but if you've seen their work you see little to no depleted donors or obvious extraction patterns so the idea that donors are way tapped out at 6k grafts as a rule isn't the case. The tools have evolved and they can far more accurately tell you what is achievable before the depletion is noticeable to the eye than they used to be able to. After my first op with Dr Bisanga he said I had at min another 8 k grafts, and that was after 2500 grafts removed so if we went on the low end im still sitting at another 5k grafts comfortably available. My donor is above average strong and my hair characteristics play to my favor which also helps but we're no longer confined to the thinking that fue means you're limited to sub 5k donors. Here's another Lorenzo patient, thick donor but he's 9k grafts in with another 1500 remaining http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/177764-dr-lorenzo-3201-grafts-madrid-3.htmlhttp://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/177764-dr-lorenzo-3201-grafts-madrid-3.html and the examples in the Erdogan patient reports could go on days lol

Always good to have a new member and one from a country so heavily asked about. Sounds like your thoughts are much the same as the consensus that already exists on this forum, Erdogan and Keser are the premier surgeons and then it gets riskier from there but it'll be great to have you as a resource as you'll probably see more of the work first hand from all these Turkish clinics than many of us would get to. Pekiner is going to be an interesting name to follow, I haven't seen a lot of his work but his reputation is building. Have you seen many of his patients in person? if so what did you think of his work and design? there are few clinics doing bodyhair and he offers it so he could be an affordable option for many considering that route one day.

No worries, I can see how you took it as you did but I hope you get where I'm coming from now. I totally get where an Erdogan patient can get defensive, he does get more flack than other docs in general but when you're the leader in the industry and he has to be doing the most procedures in the world youre going to get the most attention negative and positive, its not easy being the king lol I agree with you that it isn't a negative that Erdogan lets his patients take higher risk decisions if it makes sense for them, it comes down to personal approach, like drs patients also have their own personalities, I like the slower approach cause it lets me fine tune but its also a bitch in that I gotta shave my head every time for a tune up lol to some that would be painful when they could do it in one go...we all gotta do what we are all comfortable with and pick a doc that matches our temperament so its good to have docs of all sorts and let the patients decide. Whats for sure is Erdogan is a great surgeon

If you pick and choose which comments of mine to display you can make it sound like I am against Dr Erdogan which is far from the case, I have said consistently that he is an elite fue surgeon and I recommend him almost daily on this site. You will find infinitely more positive comments from me about this doctor than negative. I also have said that Dr Lorenzo thinks very highly of Erdogan so that just reinforces what I already believed. that said I can question things and one of my main questions as it is to so many here is why are his quotes higher. They do have the same coverage value system so why are the quotes different, you're saying they quote the exact same numbers but that wasn't my experience, I was quoted 1100 more grafts by Dr Erodgan. I have my own theory, and I believe I said it before in a thread, I think he just knows ultimately the worst case scenario for your hair loss and how many donors you have and hes willing to use up the donor to get the best result possible. Lorenzo takes a more measured approach, he goes in stages, it can in the end up in similar graft counts or it could be significantly less if the patient ends up happy with the coverage in one stage. There isn't a right or wrong in that just personal philosophy. This Erdogan patient said something different than what I had believed and that was that he anticipates loss, that was what I thought sounded reckless, we don't know if that is what Erdogan is doing at all so I was discussing that point alone. Going into an area that has signficant loss and has some minaturized hairs as well but accounting for those to be lost is just game planning but that is different from saying well 5 years from now you'll probably be thinning in the midscalp so Im just gonna add a thousand grafts there in anticipation which is what it sounded like this patient was saying, that sounds like asking for trouble... You are also confusing my saying I am a diffuse patient with I am currently in a deeply minaturized state, diffuse loss is just one way the loss shows itself but it doesn't necessarily mean the hair is in an advanced stage of minaturization. If an area is heavily minaturized of course it is dangerous to implant there for any doctor and all should have a level at which it is too risky. My hair had diffused along the crown, there was enough loss to warrant going in and meds had steadied the rest of the area so Lorenzo was able to go in, if it wasn't safe he would not have gone in...but there is a skill to working on diffused patients as you can transect hairs in a diffused area quite easily if you're not careful as there are usually still numerous natives present. I have 0 doubts as to Erdogans clinics ability to do fine work on diffuse patients, I just know Lorenzo has specific examples I didnt research Erdogans site thoroughly enough to know if he did or didnt so I didnt mention him to markee but it wasn't meant as any slight just that if you want feedback from another dr reach out to Lorenzo hes worked with a lot of us myself included, see what he has to say plus he'd already heard from Erdogan. Getting back to what I said, if the prediction/anticipation thing is true then I think that can be reckless as you're implanting in either areas that are in early stages of minaturization or healthy in which case you're risking shock loss so im not sure I entirely buy that reasoning as I think its too good a clinic getting too good results to be that risky. It wasn't a criticism of the clinic but of why I thought that reasoning didn't make sense to me. I never criticized his clinic for working on you or any patient, each patient has his own variables so there is no cookie cutter answer as to who should be worked on, its a case by case basis, do not put words in my mouth. I also never said anything about his hairlines being too aggressive, Ive said he does very good hairline work. You're getting very defensive about your doctor when Im a fan of your doctor so im not sure where this is all coming from. I have commented in cases where works werent good enough and said they werent good enough from every doctor who had one. I can't recall saying that in an Erdogan case, it mightve happened but off the top of my head I can't recall. I saw a Lupanzula miss, a Feriduni miss and I saw Bisanga botch some temple points and I commented on all of them and said they werent good enough and I had commented on Dutchies thread when his result wasnt good enough so I dont pick on any doc, I just call it like I see it. Im sorry you seem to think this makes me a bs artist and a hypocrite but I dont think I was disingenuous in any way, I think the world of my doc Lorenzo im definitely guilty of probably talking him up too much but we all get that way about our docs when we're happy but I certainly don't take anything away from Dr Erdogan so please take my comments in their entirety, and don't isolate individual comments, I said one thing about a theory a patient had but that doesnt eliminate that ive been nothing but a fan recommending him a hundred other times.

I agree with Dan, you got great hair, get on meds and preserve what you have. That is always the best course. Only when it gets away from you do you consider a transplant but you should be able to maintain that great hair for a long while yet before needing to consider work. Start on fin asap and see how you respond.

Beautiful work, total change. Couldn't have yielded any better than that. He definitely needs to fade his hair tho as I think it'd allow him to cover the scar better but that's a styling choice the transplant was a success. This clinic just keeps on delivering.

interesting, trt did speed up my hairloss timeline...our genetics determines which level of loss we hit and aas usage may speed that timeline up but it isn't taking us anywhere we weren't going anyway. I thought trt may be increasing your shed rate like it was mine and you may need stronger meds, Dr Cooley recommends dut for trt patients and i had to make the switch to get my dht under control, fin just wasn't strong enough while being on for me. Fin does seem to be helping your dht inhibition tho. It is hard to say why your hairloss progression escalated at the time it did, but there is no set way everybody loses their hair, that you got thru most of your youth with hair is a bonus tho I realize that isn't a comfort to you now. Have you undergone other testing, thyroid for example just to make sure it's not related to hypothyroidism? i don't know if you're seeing an endo for your trt but they'd usually check for that but being diffuse loss and for it to come on later in life it might be worth at least confirming if you haven't already. As for consult, my first bit of advice is don't worry necessarily about which doctor is ultimately going to do the surgery but find a top doc and get him to assess your hair in person. I didn't check your profile so I don't know what city you're in but if there is one close by just go get an in person consult you can ultimately go back to Erdogan or another doc but for the sake of information its best to get seen up close, they will tell you what level of minturization is going on and how dangerous it would be to proceed etc if it is, but it is far more in depth than an email consult. As for other doctors who would be good to consult with as a diffuse patient. Dr Lorenzo, I had him as my doc and I'm a diffuse patient he's got lots of vids on youtube showing his work with diffuse patients, he'd be a good one to reach out to but bear in mind the consult takes 3-4 weeks to hear back so he's not quick, he's got a backlog of patients. Dr Bisanga would be another, if your price point allows I would reach out to Dr Konior. That's a few anyway.

I thought in the end it would come down to something like this, simply some sort of error and not some new crazy oversight direction but it was important that it got addressed so thank you Bill for clearing this up. I did get an alert from the site a while back about my account email no longer being valid as I had switched emails so this sounds this sounds plausable and the most likely scenario... just really bad timing with the discussion ongoing with Dr Lupanzulas clinic, they got dragged into this unnecessarily. Hopefully this can be quickly resolved with hsrps account and we can get back to less drama around here lol

You should have been consulting with multiple doctors regardless of your choice of Erdogan. You want multiple opinions and consensus on what is happening to your hair and ideally you want your scalp in front of a doctors eyes directly, not just thru pictures. If your hair is still heavily minaturized and past the threshold of acceptable risk, then it is only in your best interest to wait, not what you want to hear but a potential reality, hence why you want to get seen in person and properly assessed. . Are you currently on trt? I remember you saying in another thread that you used to lift regularly so I don't know if you used aas or not but if you are on trt today, that could be a reason for continued shedding

There are a few clinics, the known tech mills that trigger the mods to approve a post and a couple that aren't allowed to be named but i think thats more because those clinics were spamming with fake reports and earned that rather than what is being talked about here.

If this is true, and I want to believe it is just an error in some way, this would be very disappointing. You've given a lot to this forum hsrp, I know I've appreciated your input in my time and you didn't say anything overly inflammatory from what I've seen. We all have opinions, preferences and should be able to speak them but you should be able to defend your position if you're saying something, and you did so which makes it fair game to me. It does seem like the clinic thinks you've singled them out a few times so this may have been coming from them but it still warranted a discussion at the very least a warning over pm if there was some sort of infraction with the rules... I've made my own fair share of critical comments and will continue to do so when warranted, I would leave if comments about certain docs were off limits. I never felt that was the case here. Joe had his own extenuating circumstances so I don't like to conflate the 2... but this is the first I've heard of something like this which is why I want to hope it is an error and not a sign of the current forum direction.

2nd what triple7 said, reach out to your doctor but jump in to see either your gp or preferably your dermatologist. If it is folliculitis you may need some meds ( topicals/antibiotics) to get it under control.

You can go to whomever you like whenever you like, it's your hair. You may get asked why you changed docs at most. These 2 docs are big fans of each other and do work together on fue conferences and such, they've both worked with each other on ops, and they've been to each others clinics and incorporate elements from each others clinics. For example, Lorenzo adapted Erdogans coverage value system and Erdogan switched to keep which is basically a hybrid implanter pen because of the yields Lorenzo was able to get. I asked Lorenzo about Erdogan and he had nothing but glowing things to say about him and i'm sure it'll be the same in reverse so you could do as you wish but really you'll be fine in eithers hands and they can both get you the result you're looking for so there is no reason to be jumping around. It just comes down to which approach you prefer.

No I didn't keep a log, I thought about it but I knew pre op that I was going to have to make a switch from fin to dut as I was being moved onto a different form of trt and needed the stronger dht inhibition so I knew a big shed was likely coming my way and the timing so close post op was going to be stressing enough I didn't want any added stress of having it judged in a thread. I wasn't wrong I'm in the midst of a nasty shed right now, it's about 4 month of full time dut after 3 months of tapering up with finasteride still in the mix so it's interesting times, my hairs definitely gone from weaker at op to much stronger at 6 months to a step back now but I still got my result it's just nuked some minaturized hairs in surrounding areas... in a few months time I expect it to rebound stronger than ever. I'll get my girl to take a few pics when she gets back after the weekend for anybody interested in seeing what the crowns looking like.

You said it yourself you can't go wrong with either. I went with Dr Lorenzo for my last surgery and he will be my forever doc going forward so clearly I think the world of him. These are both elite doctors however but here's my take I think Erdogans clinic is better suited to mega session work if you are wanting to limit the amount of trips you want to make. Lorenzo is adept at mega session work but he prefers it in stages, you'll find many of his large cases were 2 and 3 stage transplants vs 1 so you may need to make multiple trips with Lorenzo. I do think the hairline talk about Lorenzo is nonsense, his work is quite aesthetic, I've seen many cases up close and they are natural and beautifully done. Erdogan gets to display more of his aggressive stylings in part due to his clientele, his price point will attract younger patients which want younger more bolder approaches and 2 he is aggressive by nature, he is willing to go deeper into a donor area sooner than are other doctors. That I don't mean in any negative way, I don't mean at the expense of your future but if he knows you've 10k donors and can spare an extra 500 to get extra density up front he's willing to go there while other doctors may lean to not using any more than is necessary. Lorenzos tendency is to use what you need but he is flexible as long as it's not hurting you going forward but if you have a preference for Erdogans hairlines i can understand that but if you think to get the upsides from Lorenzo you also have to settle for an average hairline that isn't the case I think it comes down to a couple factors for you, do you have crown work to do and how many trips you want to make. Lorenzo does the best crown work on the planet so if i had extensive crown work my lean would be Lorenzo. If you are primarily hairline and midscalp and number of trips are a factor, Erdogan is my lean.

haha, an embarrassment of riches you have there. When my crowns done growing out I may grow out to a man bun, just cause I can as horrible as it'd look

congrats on the results. Your hair looks great, you should've posted a few pics into the post for ease, so people can see what you're talking about. We can be lazy about going offsite lol

I just started my 9th month and I'm ecstatic. He did my crown so it's not technically a finished work yet as crowns are supposed to take about a year and a half. That said, it's everything I could've asked for already, I've got full coverage, no more crown showing but I can tell that my natural hair characteristics haven't kicked in fully yet so it's going to get better. I would absolutely say he's worth waiting for.

Lorenzo will respond but it takes anywhere from 3-5 weeks. His schedule is insane, he's in clinic at 7 am and doesn't leave until midnight 4 days a week, friday is his consult day with anybody who wants to come in office so hes got very little downtime. Weekends is when he breathes lol His pecking order in terms of importance to him is In office patient former patient (if I write him I'll get a reply within a day as a former patient) and lastly consults and he prefers to do that all himself, he doesn't want office staff handling consults so he'll write you back personally but it takes a while as you are literally the last thing he'll get around to. It's just a waiting game. I waited about 3 weeks and then his responses were prompt with follow up questions and then booking with Pilar is straight forward as she replies asap.

We'll agree to disagree

would also be interested to find these things out.... sounds like an intriguing product if it has overcome the systemic absorption issue.

I have to disagree, it is not about comparing yourself to another patient it is about comparing what is achievable from one doctor vs another. These 2 docs in particular get more mileage out of grafts than other top docs imo. If you don't have great characteristics it is even more vital to get more mileage out of your grafts than somebody with a thick donor and great characteristics. I also believe that most good clinics can do a hairline, you may have an aesthetic preference of one doc vs another but what sets an elite clinic apart from a top one is crown work and donor maintenance. Few other clinics go as deep into a donor and keep it as pristine as Lorenzo and Erdogan ( can't speak for Couto ) and these 2 docs (Lorenzo/Couto) imo do the best fue crown work on the planet.

let me put it this way, having had prp was never the difference between a bad transplant and a good one, or a good one and a great one...and results seem to vary by clinic, some docs like Cooley for example seem to have presentable results while other docs just seem to get nothing out of it so I question if all the clinics are doing it properly. I've never seen cases of it hurting a procedure but i'd be curious to see examples of that but I've seen plenty of cases of nothing from it.

What Gasthoerer brought up is the real worry, when you have a substantial amount of native hairs you risk shock loss, you need a doc that has lots of experience working cases like yours for you to consider it, even then it's a risk. You do need to continue down the consult path and get your head in front of docs, they need to see what level of minaturization is occurring which could dictate if you're viable right now. Your hair loss isn't that far along but I get that telling somebody that in his prime dating years that isn't helpful cause there is still evident loss. I was in the same boat, I was a bit older than you but I am single and didn't want to put off my procedures and wait for my hair to worsen to a level that someone else thought it was bad enough to do a transplant, i wanted to act. That said I did wait until every doc i talked to thought it was safe in my case to do so. That is especially important in your case with a limited donor, or at least what appears in pictures to be a limited donor. If you transplant too early with a limited donor and end up with a net 0 or net negative, you're screwed. You need to get it right from jump. I think you got some good docs on your list in Mohebi and Diep. I'm not a fan of Baubac, I talked to a patient of his and he told me Dr Dorin (who did his last surgery) told him that his procedure with Baubac depleted his donor and showed poor donor management. Given some of the practices of the clinic and hearing that I can't in good conscience recommend him. Umar I prefer only for body hair work, for scalp hair I think you can do better.

In no way is Fut outdated today, it comes down to supply and demand. If you have the supply to keep up with your loss demand then either avenue is available to you. If your demand pushes the limits of your supply then fut is the best option. The tougher the case you are the better the fut option becomes for you ie, If you're a high nw, if you're the type with extremely kinky curly hair which may be a tougher fue extraction and so on. Most top fut doctors have gotten the scar down to as small as it can get but your own physiology and your post op recovery will dictate if there will be stretching and then you'll just have to see if a 2.5 grade will cover it, you can usually fade below the scar and get some sort of compromise but over the scar itself it is possible you may have to go a little higher but again maybe not. If you're already at a 2.5 grade, then going to a 3 or 4 isn't the end of the world if it means a full head of hair or better head of hair, so make the choice based on which route allows you to get the hair you want.