Administrators Melvin- Admin Posted January 26, 2023 Author Administrators Share Posted January 26, 2023 2 hours ago, BaldBobby said: But if it's not penetrating the scalp, then how can it be effective? Because it works locally, reducing the DHT in the scalp, rather than systemically. 1 I’m a paid admin for Hair Transplant Network. I do not receive any compensation from any clinic. My comments are not medical advice. Check out my final hair transplant and topical dutasteride journey: View my thread Topical dutasteride journey Melvin- Managing Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog. Follow our Social Media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, and YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member BurnieBurns Posted January 26, 2023 Senior Member Share Posted January 26, 2023 5 hours ago, sunsurfhair said: Duasteride's molecular weight is 528.53 g/mol, so it is less likely to go systemic (topically), but there are people who do still experience sides over time. I would think this might have to do with a compounding effect of the quite long half life and eventual systemic buildup. This is why some clinics like Mwamba’s FUE clinic has patients apply it once a week for several weeks to see how you do symptoms wise. The larger weight of Dutasteride certainly helps with systemic absorption from the scalp. “Dalton Rule” states anything with a molecular weight less than 500 will penetrate the corneal (outer) layer of skin. For reference, Finasteride’s molecular weight is 372.549 g/mol, so can penetrate the skin much easier than Dutasteride. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10839713/ I received that same side effects with Dr Mwamba's topical dutasteride. There may be some variation in how easily some scalps absorb versus others but the 500 dalton theory is seen as much too black and white when it comes to topicals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member sunsurfhair Posted January 26, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted January 26, 2023 1 hour ago, BurnieBurns said: I received that same side effects with Dr Mwamba's topical dutasteride. There may be some variation in how easily some scalps absorb versus others but the 500 dalton theory is seen as much too black and white when it comes to topicals. Do you remember what side effects you had on it? Once weekly application? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member BurnieBurns Posted January 26, 2023 Senior Member Share Posted January 26, 2023 7 minutes ago, sunsurfhair said: Do you remember what side effects you had on it? Once weekly application? Yes, the standard sexual side effects, and malaise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member sunsurfhair Posted January 26, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted January 26, 2023 8 hours ago, BurnieBurns said: Yes, the standard sexual side effects, and malaise Sorry brother awful when they hit I know 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Melvin- Admin Posted January 26, 2023 Author Administrators Share Posted January 26, 2023 I haven’t had any sides with Xyons finasteride. It could be the delivery vehicle. I’ve been very patient pleasantly surprised. It’s only been a month, but I remember the oral version gave me sides by this time. 1 I’m a paid admin for Hair Transplant Network. I do not receive any compensation from any clinic. My comments are not medical advice. Check out my final hair transplant and topical dutasteride journey: View my thread Topical dutasteride journey Melvin- Managing Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog. Follow our Social Media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, and YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member BurnieBurns Posted January 26, 2023 Senior Member Share Posted January 26, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said: I haven’t had any sides with Xyons finasteride. It could be the delivery vehicle. I’ve been very patient pleasantly surprised. It’s only been a month, but I remember the oral version gave me sides by this time. That’s great. It’s very clear the siloxys and farmacia Parati gel are the only vehicles proven to signifinactly reduce systemic absorption. Trichisol does not (which the fue clijic formulations use) I will definitely be trying XYON when they release it outside North America. I was going to go to use Farmacia Parati in the meantime but they’re having issues with customs at the moment Edited January 26, 2023 by BurnieBurns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member BurnieBurns Posted January 26, 2023 Senior Member Share Posted January 26, 2023 5 hours ago, sunsurfhair said: Sorry brother awful when they hit I know Thanks man. It’s not even the experiencing the sides that’s the hardest part. It’s knowing you can’t tolerate the one and only thing that can stop your hair loss 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member sunsurfhair Posted January 26, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted January 26, 2023 6 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said: I haven’t had any sides with Xyons finasteride. It could be the delivery vehicle. I’ve been very patient pleasantly surprised. It’s only been a month, but I remember the oral version gave me sides by this time. That’s fantastic news this could be an excellent option for us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member arthurSam Posted January 26, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted January 26, 2023 (edited) You can make your own liposomal gel with fin or dut the patent of xyon is available on the net and there are example of how to make the gel. No need to wait for availability outside USA and it is very very less of money. Edited January 26, 2023 by arthurSam 1 Minoxidil : 5% topical 1ml/day Follicular androgen receptor inhibitor : {Fluridil + CosmeRNA} Exosome Mesotherapy 1mm (See here for explanations & results) : ASCE+ HRLV AAPE for Hair secretomes + human Umbilical Chord Exosomes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member pre-screened Posted January 27, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted January 27, 2023 Is the XYON topical DUT daily @Melvin- Moderator? Looks like it is - I thought the dream with Topical Dut might be the application cadence was only going to be a couple of times a week, given half-life etc.? Great if you know the reasoning or a good Q for the future podcast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Melvin- Admin Posted January 27, 2023 Author Administrators Share Posted January 27, 2023 16 minutes ago, pre-screened said: Is the XYON topical DUT daily @Melvin- Moderator? Looks like it is - I thought the dream with Topical Dut might be the application cadence was only going to be a couple of times a week, given half-life etc.? Great if you know the reasoning or a good Q for the future podcast. From what I understand they suggest daily use. Based on the results they witnessed, it seems to be the most effective. However, the dosage depends on what the dermatologist suggests. I will be using it 3x per week. Then see if I have any sides and move up. You also have to consider that if you use the gel and wash your hair daily, it’s not gonna be systemic as much. So it all depends on your regimen. 1 I’m a paid admin for Hair Transplant Network. I do not receive any compensation from any clinic. My comments are not medical advice. Check out my final hair transplant and topical dutasteride journey: View my thread Topical dutasteride journey Melvin- Managing Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog. Follow our Social Media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, and YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Johnny129 Posted January 27, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted January 27, 2023 So is any gel formula less likely to go systemic? I've been using Mwambas 0.01% for 4 months (once weekly) and its been good so far with no sides but I can also a gel at 0.5% but it will probably work out more expensive. If the gel is less likely to go systemic I may run with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member arthurSam Posted January 27, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted January 27, 2023 (edited) Mwamba is trichosol so there is no same amount of fina in scalp with gel & trichosol, perhaps 0.5% xyon gel give less fina than 0.01% trichosol in scalp ... We know that the concentration in vitro with 2.5% xyon gel is around 4 ug/cm² (in vivo is 10x less) does someone have the concentration with pg/alchool at 2.5% in vitro for comparing ? I found only the serum concentration but no the scalp concentration... It would be very great comparing all these things with same amount of percentage fina... Edited January 27, 2023 by arthurSam Minoxidil : 5% topical 1ml/day Follicular androgen receptor inhibitor : {Fluridil + CosmeRNA} Exosome Mesotherapy 1mm (See here for explanations & results) : ASCE+ HRLV AAPE for Hair secretomes + human Umbilical Chord Exosomes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member BurnieBurns Posted January 28, 2023 Senior Member Share Posted January 28, 2023 16 hours ago, Johnny129 said: So is any gel formula less likely to go systemic? I've been using Mwambas 0.01% for 4 months (once weekly) and its been good so far with no sides but I can also a gel at 0.5% but it will probably work out more expensive. If the gel is less likely to go systemic I may run with that If you're not having sides, no need to fix what's not broken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member RecycleBin Posted January 28, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted January 28, 2023 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq51v1r6cRU&t=958s He does a great breakdown of topical dutasteride for those looking for more info I just started using Xyon's 2.0% formula can't wait to see how it goes 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Johnny129 Posted January 29, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted January 29, 2023 On 1/28/2023 at 1:22 AM, BurnieBurns said: If you're not having sides, no need to fix what's not broken Yeah this is also what I was thinking. For some reason I always get sides to various (unrelated) products generally so half expecting it to be the case here down the line. I suppose if I ever develop sides I could go down the gel route then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member arthurSam Posted January 30, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted January 30, 2023 (edited) I got a question about xyon topical dutasteride. In the research paper from xyon year 2021 there is some of the 10 mens who have experiences big increase of DHT, more than 100% for some case.... the average decrease is 12% but are you afraid to be the one who will experience big spike of DHT instead of reduction ? I would be very stressed by that ... Does these men saw all there hair falling ? Is the hair loss induced by the increase of dht is reversible? Xyon say nothing about that in his paper... Note that it is not the case in the finasteride essay... all the DHT amount where decrease in all men... Edited January 30, 2023 by arthurSam 1 Minoxidil : 5% topical 1ml/day Follicular androgen receptor inhibitor : {Fluridil + CosmeRNA} Exosome Mesotherapy 1mm (See here for explanations & results) : ASCE+ HRLV AAPE for Hair secretomes + human Umbilical Chord Exosomes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member BurnieBurns Posted January 30, 2023 Senior Member Share Posted January 30, 2023 53 minutes ago, arthurSam said: I got a question about xyon topical dutasteride. In the research paper from xyon year 2021 there is some of the 10 mens who have experiences big increase of DHT, more than 100% for some case.... the average decrease is 12% but are you afraid to be the one who will experience big spike of DHT instead of reduction ? I would be very stressed by that ... Does these men saw all there hair falling ? Is the hair loss induced by the increase of dht is reversible? Xyon say nothing about that in his paper... Note that it is not the case in the finasteride essay... all the DHT amount where decrease in all men... There is factually no way taking any form of dutasteride could cause a big increase in DHT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member arthurSam Posted January 31, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted January 31, 2023 (edited) In the research paper from Xyon there are 10 persons for the test of topical dutasteride and 3 get big increased of DHT ... Even more than 100% ! The median of suppression is 12% but with very high negative variations and the mean is an increase (not a decrease) of DHT... I am afraid that it will cause a lot of hair loss for these guys no ? This is not happening when testing finasteride : Edited January 31, 2023 by arthurSam 1 Minoxidil : 5% topical 1ml/day Follicular androgen receptor inhibitor : {Fluridil + CosmeRNA} Exosome Mesotherapy 1mm (See here for explanations & results) : ASCE+ HRLV AAPE for Hair secretomes + human Umbilical Chord Exosomes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemiline Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 1 hour ago, arthurSam said: In the research paper from Xyon there are 10 persons for the test of topical dutasteride and 3 get big increased of DHT ... Even more than 100% ! The median of suppression is 12% but with very high negative variations and the mean is an increase (not a decrease) of DHT... I am afraid that it will cause a lot of hair loss for these guys no ? This is not happening when testing finasteride : This is really interesting as it isn't supposed to lower the scalp DHT at all. May I ask if Xyon has released this 2021 reseaech paper publicly, or how did you gaina ccess to it? I would really like to take a closer look at it, especially since Xyon havn't released any research on their topical Dut yet nor any oral explanation have been done yet. I'm really on the fence on chosing between their Topical Fin or Dut and I probably have to start soon, but there is not enough info on whetehr topical Dut really offers a higher efficacy + (maybe) better safety or at least an acceptable level of safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Melvin- Admin Posted January 31, 2023 Author Administrators Share Posted January 31, 2023 (edited) 11 hours ago, Nemiline said: This is really interesting as it isn't supposed to lower the scalp DHT at all. May I ask if Xyon has released this 2021 reseaech paper publicly, or how did you gaina ccess to it? I would really like to take a closer look at it, especially since Xyon havn't released any research on their topical Dut yet nor any oral explanation have been done yet. I'm really on the fence on chosing between their Topical Fin or Dut and I probably have to start soon, but there is not enough info on whetehr topical Dut really offers a higher efficacy + (maybe) better safety or at least an acceptable level of safety. Check their library. I believe they released their studies. Also, they did break down their studies on our live podcast last year. Edited February 1, 2023 by Hans - Webmaster Fixed YouTube link to embed clip 2 I’m a paid admin for Hair Transplant Network. I do not receive any compensation from any clinic. My comments are not medical advice. Check out my final hair transplant and topical dutasteride journey: View my thread Topical dutasteride journey Melvin- Managing Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog. Follow our Social Media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, and YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member arthurSam Posted January 31, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted January 31, 2023 (edited) I attache the 2 files for Fina & Duta. There are public. It is really cool you have the recipe to make your own Xyon liposomal gel 😁 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bcyQbzEhlWielKFb0-iL6ZyO7tA3uL8E/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gXhQr9R2j6aWfardfqSQB7f42uBvM5Ml/view?usp=sharing Edited January 31, 2023 by arthurSam 2 Minoxidil : 5% topical 1ml/day Follicular androgen receptor inhibitor : {Fluridil + CosmeRNA} Exosome Mesotherapy 1mm (See here for explanations & results) : ASCE+ HRLV AAPE for Hair secretomes + human Umbilical Chord Exosomes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member BurnieBurns Posted January 31, 2023 Senior Member Share Posted January 31, 2023 DHT will naturally fluctuate independant of drugs that are affecting it. I highly doubt any layperson would have the tools and the supplies to make their own even with the recipe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member arthurSam Posted January 31, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted January 31, 2023 (edited) 16 minutes ago, BurnieBurns said: DHT will naturally fluctuate independant of drugs that are affecting it. I highly doubt any layperson would have the tools and the supplies to make their own even with the recipe Yes DHT fluctuate in a day but they took multiple blood test in a day to eliminate the fluctuation. It proove that duta can increase dht for some people and not fina. All the ingredient are low cost and available at Alibaba and they can be stored for 2 years. The emulsifier for a small lab 300ml cost is less than 300$ Edited January 31, 2023 by arthurSam 1 Minoxidil : 5% topical 1ml/day Follicular androgen receptor inhibitor : {Fluridil + CosmeRNA} Exosome Mesotherapy 1mm (See here for explanations & results) : ASCE+ HRLV AAPE for Hair secretomes + human Umbilical Chord Exosomes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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