Verteporfin HAIR REGENERATION HUMAN TRIAL Dr. Barghouthi *OFFICIAL THREAD

[Jonathan]

On 8/6/2023 at 2:44 PM, Fox243 said:

Why? FUT is predicted to show a greater difference in results because of increased SHH signaling. Can you please explain the science of how an FUE could work while an FUT might not? 

Science can work in funky ways, we have at least a little bit of proof that it works in FUE, with 0 proof that it works in FUT. Also Melvin and him rescheduled for the 28th, proves my point that days turns to weeks to months. Wouldn’t doubt it if it just gets pushed onto next year at this point. 

[MrFox]

19 minutes ago, Jonathan said:

Science can work in funky ways, we have at least a little bit of proof that it works in FUE, with 0 proof that it works in FUT. Also Melvin and him rescheduled for the 28th, proves my point that days turns to weeks to months. Wouldn’t doubt it if it just gets pushed onto next year at this point. 

We have the current trial with Dr. Bloxham on FUT, the surgery already happened so it's not like we are not seeing any progress.

[Jonathan]

20 minutes ago, MrFox said:

We have the current trial with Dr. Bloxham on FUT, the surgery already happened so it's not like we are not seeing any progress.

What’s the progress so far then?

[MrFox]

3 minutes ago, Jonathan said:

What’s the progress so far then?

It hasn't been posted yet by Dr. Bloxham, that being said the initial photos are not going to prove or disprove anything at this point. We need to let the healing process happen, and that is going to take a few months. The point is that there is research being conducted, so it is not as if one interview is going to derail the other trials. 

[alopeciaphobia]

49 minutes ago, Jonathan said:

Wouldn’t doubt it if it just gets pushed onto next year at this point. 

I'm sad to admit that I'm also struggling not to lose faith in a second FUE trial happening anytime soon. Looking at how many times something caused it to have been postponed since the original goal date of August/September 2022, and even after the incredible $15k donation, it's hard not to see a never ending pattern.

Edited August 9, 2023 by alopeciaphobia

[Jonathan]

34 minutes ago, MrFox said:

It hasn't been posted yet by Dr. Bloxham, that being said the initial photos are not going to prove or disprove anything at this point. We need to let the healing process happen, and that is going to take a few months. The point is that there is research being conducted, so it is not as if one interview is going to derail the other trials. 

Exactly my point, you’re speaking about it as if doing the FUE is now useless without Dr Verteporfin masters profound advice that keeps being rescheduled. Not against that but use it for the next trial rather than waiting potentially months or even a whole trial time worth. FUE and FUE are both completely different and deserve to both be tested differently rather than acting like the results will be the same on both.

[Jonathan]

36 minutes ago, alopeciaphobia said:

I'm sad to admit that I'm also struggling not to lose faith in a second FUE trial happening anytime soon. Looking at how many times something caused it to have been postponed since the original goal date of August/September 2022, and even after the incredible $15k donation, it's hard not to see a never ending pattern.

Agreed, date keeps being postponed left and right then no updates for weeks, postponed no updates after, postponed. Never ending cycle, we do have to keep fighting if we want there to be a difference tjough.

[Fox243]

I am the one who had asked Dr. Barghouthi to postpone the surgery, so if you want to blame anyone, you can blame me. But keep in mind that without me, my discord, my Verteporfin doc, and Dr. Barghouthi, the trials would never have happened in the first place. So please trust our assessment that it’s worth waiting till the Longaker call before doing another trial. Trials are expensive, so we want to find the right balance between efficacy and time. HairDAO is also doing a call, so if somehow this call doesn't happen, we'll have another backup.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Fox243

[Nikoni]

No blames and thank you everyone who contributed to the progress.
But lets be honest, second FUE trial was postponed already for a year, 2022 September, December, 2023 March, May, July, this are months when the trial was planned to happen according to this thread.

What would this call possibly do to improve protocol ? Longaker wouldn't disclose dosage until it's official, given he knows the ideal dosage, he also needs to do trials to find out the best dose, which he didn't.

After so many postponed dates, having another for a month for a slim chance that Longaker would say smth that may be helpful doesn't seem reasonable. If we wait long enough Longkaer will definitely come up with better solution, but we don't want to wait years, that's the whole point of these trials.

Again we are grateful to Dr. Barghouthi and anyone who contributed to the progress, but would like to hear from Dr. Barghouthi about his plans regarding verteporfin.

[alopeciaphobia]

On 8/10/2023 at 6:15 AM, Nikoni said:

 Longaker wouldn't disclose dosage until it's official, given he knows the ideal dosage, he also needs to do trials to find out the best dose, which he didn't.

I agree that it's not likely that he'll want to take on responsibility by recommending dosage. While his comments will without a doubt be very insightful, it may not be worth postponing the trial by more than a few weeks.

Edited August 13, 2023 by alopeciaphobia

[Fox243]

We’re looking for the pig study dosage at the very least. There is a chance he doesn’t tell us, but maybe he does, and if we’re an order of magnitude off, then this would be so helpful. 

[Dieter987]

Has a pig study been conducted with verteporfin?

[Nikoni]

58 minutes ago, Fox243 said:

We’re looking for the pig study dosage at the very least. There is a chance he doesn’t tell us, but maybe he does, and if we’re an order of magnitude off, then this would be so helpful. 

Progress in science is done through trials. Each new trial gives you knowledge to make the next trial better. If Longaker postpones the call for another two weeks should we wait again ?

I think if we wait for a couple of years, guys in Standford will develop much better solution, hydrogel, special injection needles etc. The goal of these trials to find out solution faster. And again this trial was already postponed few times. 

The best thing now I think is to have a podcast with Dr. to understand how he feels about continuing trials.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Nikoni

[MrFox]

15 hours ago, Jonathan said:

Exactly my point, you’re speaking about it as if doing the FUE is now useless without Dr Verteporfin masters profound advice that keeps being rescheduled. Not against that but use it for the next trial rather than waiting potentially months or even a whole trial time worth. FUE and FUE are both completely different and deserve to both be tested differently rather than acting like the results will be the same on both.

That’s not what I said at all. I agree we should continue with the 2nd FUE trial with Dr. Bargouthi and not wait. The only point I was making is that we should not be discouraged by one interview being pushed back. 

[tatasabaya]

Looking at the mice test pic... on day 30, the hair around the saline injected wound is much shorter than in the pic with Verteporfin, isn't it? Full size here

Edited August 10, 2023 by tatasabaya

[Jonathan]

5 hours ago, MrFox said:

That’s not what I said at all. I agree we should continue with the 2nd FUE trial with Dr. Bargouthi and not wait. The only point I was making is that we should not be discouraged by one interview being pushed back. 

Ahh ok, I must’ve gotten you confused with the other fox, this forums only big enough for one of them. 😂😂

[Fox243]

11 hours ago, Nikoni said:

Progress in science is done through trials. Each new trial gives you knowledge to make the next trial better. If Longaker postpones the call for another two weeks should we wait again ?

I think if we wait for a couple of years, guys in Standford will develop much better solution, hydrogel, special injection needles etc. The goal of these trials to find out solution faster. And again this trial was already postponed few times. 

The best thing now I think is to have a podcast with Dr. to understand how he feels about continuing trials.

How would you suggest we improve the trials? What is the exact dosage we should use to hit the golden zone? I’ve been working with Dr. Barghouthi and there isn’t meaningful change we’d do from Dr. Bloxham’s protocol. This is why we are waiting – if we had lots of changes to make, at least we could expect something different, but we don’t. 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Fox243

[Nikoni]

2 hours ago, Fox243 said:

How would you suggest we improve the trials? What is the exact dosage we should use to hit the golden zone? I’ve been working with Dr. Barghouthi and there isn’t meaningful change we’d do from Dr. Bloxham’s protocol. This is why we are waiting – if we had lots of changes to make, at least we could expect something different, but we don’t. 

Above 0.4 mg. That's what we learned from the previous trial. After the next trial we would be able to determine golden zone more precisely.
Hope you don't suggest to wait 6 months, to improve protocol based on  Bloxham's results.

[Fox243]

1 hour ago, Nikoni said:

Above 0.4 mg. That's what we learned from the previous trial. After the next trial we would be able to determine golden zone more precisely.
Hope you don't suggest to wait 6 months, to improve protocol based on  Bloxham's results.

No, I don't want to wait 6 months. But I'm curious why not something like 4 mg? Like right now, we have very little basis to come up with the dosage. I actually did the math myself to go from mice to human dosage through reading various papers -- if you trust me to come up with the initial dosage, I'd appreciate you trust my decision to wait a few more weeks to run the trial. If Longaker delays past August, I definitely agree that we should just do the trial in early Sep.

 

I guess more generally the point I’m trying to make is that we’ve made a lot of assumptions beyond the literature – many of which were made by people with no medical experience at all, as hair transplant surgery is very different than tinkering with research. So it’s not like Dr. Barghouthi has some magical experience which will help him find the correct dosage – this is partially why this research takes years. This is why I’d like to wait three weeks. 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Fox243

[Fox243]

fwiw, HairDAO is likely having a call on the 22nd with Longaker -- just waiting for a confirmation.

[Nikoni]

On 8/19/2022 at 4:57 AM, DrTBarghouthi said:

We used 0.9 mm punches. The possibilities and variables can be numerous and would therefore have multiple studies that can come out: different dose, volumes, punch sizes, sites, injecting in recipient areas etc. 
We have to fine tune the next studies accordingly. 

Dear @DrTBarghouthi, I wad reading the beginning of this thread, and you were  really enthusiastic willing to try different possibilities.  Now we've been waiting for  a new trial for more than a year, and we don't hear much updates from you.

You were first to try Verteporfin and  we are really grateful for that, none of us has any right to put a pressure on you, but I think we have right to know your plans regarding future trials.

I hope you are still with us, and many disruptive circumstances that happened during last year are in the past, and the things will start moving forward faster, but please in any case good or bad, let us know about your plans.

[Jonathan]

6 hours ago, Nikoni said:

Dear @DrTBarghouthi, I wad reading the beginning of this thread, and you were  really enthusiastic willing to try different possibilities.  Now we've been waiting for  a new trial for more than a year, and we don't hear much updates from you.

You were first to try Verteporfin and  we are really grateful for that, none of us has any right to put a pressure on you, but I think we have right to know your plans regarding future trials.

I hope you are still with us, and many disruptive circumstances that happened during last year are in the past, and the things will start moving forward faster, but please in any case good or bad, let us know about your plans.

Lol how can you possibly dislike this? I think everyone understands this wouldn’t be possible at all without Barghouthi. It’s like you can’t ask to be kept updated without people thinking you’re being ungrateful. In any other circumstance EVER, you say a date and everyone will keep you accountable for that date except for on this forum where we have to just be bent over and take it.

[DrTBarghouthi]

Hi guys. I agree the trials have been postponed several times partly for reasons beyond my control- drug availability, patient availability, time restrictions and finally a possibility to get better insight from Stanford and from the ongoing FUT trial. The trial is still going to happen and if there will be delay in Dr. Longaker’s phone call, then I will just go aheadis with that. I do feel that the regular updates here are being held against me for some reason- while the truth of the matter is that coordinating a trial takes a bit more than good intentions and the will to do so only. 
The bottom line is that it will take place and I only delayed the last one after feeling that the insight from the call might be helpful. 

[Britanium]

@DrTBarghouthi Thanks for updating us 🙏

[TV_on_LazerDisk]

Allot of people here, are watching, and we appreciate your effort. We don't hold anything against you.

 

I just made an account, and have been reading this forum everyday. I started losing my hair this year, rapidly, I'm shaving my head tommorow. And this trial is like a light at the end of the tunnel.

 

People used to complement me on my hair. I'm only in my mid thirties and this means, I might only have to have one bald year

 

I understand the stress from the posters, I can only imagine for the guys here who've been bald for years. Multiple disappointments and hair transplants. We all want extended hair regrowth so we can have the option more treatments and extended coverage. We're in the final stretch. Eyes on the prize boys. Eyes on the prize. 

 

I just want to say thank you to melvin, dr bargouthi, the people funding the trial, all of you. Getting ahold of people often who work in academia/research is odd, than can be very capricious as to their scheduling. 

 

Anyway just wanted to say I'm sure there are allot of people not posting here, following this who are incredibly appreciative to all of you. 

 

It's important we remember how simple and real this is. It's using an fda approved drug, in an established procedure. This isn't like other vaporware treatments, and here we are just waiting to be told the details of an already done study. I think the energy from other pie in the sky stuff has made us all nervous. Maybe because I'm newer, as a bit of an outsider I can say this looks different, this is real. 

 

Please keep us updated, and thank you to everyone on this forum. 

 

 

Thanks. 

Edited August 13, 2023 by TV_on_LazerDisk