HLC vs Bicer

[hairtxp]

I’ve been researching hair transplants for quite a bit of time. Located in the Northeast part of the United States. Ultimately I’m likely deciding to go to Turkey given significant expertise there along with better value for the cost. Ultimately the price is not the most important but I do think there’s a pretty substantial difference in price that’s almost double with HLC versus bicer. I am quoted to get around 4000 grafts and it cost me around 13,000 at HLC including flight versus approximately 7000 at Bicer. Do you see honestly much better results with HLC. I’d much rather spend the 6000 extra of them and I had a much more likely better outcome. However if it’s negligible difference I don’t want to spend that extra money. Thank you. I’d prefer a place in the states but I can’t get 4000 grafts for less than 22k and not sure it would be that much better. Appreciate the input. 

[digi23]

2 hours ago, hairtxp said:

I’ve been researching hair transplants for quite a bit of time. Located in the Northeast part of the United States. Ultimately I’m likely deciding to go to Turkey given significant expertise there along with better value for the cost. Ultimately the price is not the most important but I do think there’s a pretty substantial difference in price that’s almost double with HLC versus bicer. I am quoted to get around 4000 grafts and it cost me around 13,000 at HLC including flight versus approximately 7000 at Bicer. Do you see honestly much better results with HLC. I’d much rather spend the 6000 extra of them and I had a much more likely better outcome. However if it’s negligible difference I don’t want to spend that extra money. Thank you. I’d prefer a place in the states but I can’t get 4000 grafts for less than 22k and not sure it would be that much better. Appreciate the input. 

Dr. Bicer seem to be a great choice, the Dr involvement is good and 1 surgery per day. To be honest I just had mine done with someone doing 2 a day and even though I feel happy at the moment I wish I would have chosen someone who does only 1 patient a day for full involvement but for you, you basically have pinned out two great choices so its not a problem with Dr involvement. Should be deciding whether you like Bicer or HLC hairline design more and what you think fits your position the best.

Edited September 19, 2021 by digi23

[hairtxp]

17 minutes ago, digi23 said:

Dr. Bicer seem to be a great choice, the Dr involvement is good and 1 surgery per day. Should be deciding whether you like Bicer or HLC hairline design more.

Are you able to elaborate on this. Can you tell me the main differences between the hairlines? 

[Britanium]

Personally I would choose Dr Bicer, HLC uses a few Drs (all very capable) but I prefer to know exactly which Dr will be performing the hair transplant. Look through the forum and see both Dr Bicers and HLC results. Both are good choices. Is there that much of a difference in terms of results ? Debatable. 

[Melvin- Admin]

I would personally choose Bicer, but HLC seem to do great work, I’m not familiar with their ethics though.

[MachoVato]

On 9/18/2021 at 9:54 PM, hairtxp said:

Are you able to elaborate on this. Can you tell me the main differences between the hairlines? 

Doctors seem to have a style of hairline. Some are straighter, some are softer, some are more dense/aggressive. I do like Bicer's general approach and at that price, she's a great value.

I would recommend going through the forum's patient cases.

Bicer threads: https://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/search/?q=Bicer&quick=1&search_in=titles

HLC threads: https://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/search/?q=HLC&quick=1&search_in=titles

 

Of course, I'm biased towards HLC since I've had success there. I was particularly impressed with HLC YouTube videos. 

https://www.youtube.com/c/FueHairTransplant/videos

 

If you have any questions, let me know.

[Portugal25]

@hairtxpit`s true that between these two Doctors you can only compare the cost of the surgery because they have very different techniques.

HLC is a Doctor only surgery doing a more refined technique called stick&place which means the Doctor performs the slit and immediatly implants the graft so the slit remains open for just a few seconds before receiving the graft (same technique used by Dr. Konior).

Dr. Bicer from what I understood (please correct me if I`m wrong) is doing the same technique as Dr. Demirsoy and many others, The Doctor does all the slits and then the techs (not the Doctor) do the implanting. This means the slit stays open for a much longer period of time and since the slit begins to close immediatly after being opened any surgery doing pre-made slits can`t have punch sizes as low as 0,7mm like you see with DHI or Stick&Place because they need wider punch sizes to compensate for the time the slit stays open.

Ofcourse this older technique can alse get good results in the hand of a great Doctor but the best results I have seen are from Doctors doing either DHI and Stick&Place.

So for me comparing HLC with Bicer is like comparing a VW with a BWM but come from Germany but have different approches in construction.

 

[Melvin- Admin]

16 minutes ago, Portugal25 said:

@hairtxpit`s true that between these two Doctors you can only compare the cost of the surgery because they have very different techniques.

HLC is a Doctor only surgery doing a more refined technique called stick&place which means the Doctor performs the slit and immediatly implants the graft so the slit remains open for just a few seconds before receiving the graft (same technique used by Dr. Konior).

Dr. Bicer from what I understood (please correct me if I`m wrong) is doing the same technique as Dr. Demirsoy and many others, The Doctor does all the slits and then the techs (not the Doctor) do the implanting. This means the slit stays open for a much longer period of time and since the slit begins to close immediatly after being opened any surgery doing pre-made slits can`t have punch sizes as low as 0,7mm like you see with DHI or Stick&Place because they need wider punch sizes to compensate for the time the slit stays open.

Ofcourse this older technique can alse get good results in the hand of a great Doctor but the best results I have seen are from Doctors doing either DHI and Stick&Place.

So for me comparing HLC with Bicer is like comparing a VW with a BWM but come from Germany but have different approches in construction.

 

I don’t agree, some of the worst clinics in the world promote themselves as DHI. I’m sure you’re a football fan, so I’ll use this analogy. One team may thrive on the 4-4-2 formation, some may say, that is the  gold standard formation. But other teams may thrive in the 4-3-3 formation. It really is dependent upon the team and how and where they excel. Now, there’s no doubt implanter pens have there benefits. I would invite you to check out my interview with Dr. Konior, very good stuff, he discusses stick and place vs. pre-made slits. 
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CSR_rTnl6Sf/?utm_medium=copy_link

[hairtxp]

All of these comments are very helpful. May just stick with HLC since my budget allows. Was hoping to get overwhelming evidence that Bicer was just as good so I could save my 6K :). 

[Portugal25]

@Melvin- ModeratorI fully agree that it`s the surgeon and his team that are responsible for the results and not the technique. A average doctor doing stick&place will get a worst result than a good doctor doing pre-made slits.

What I can`t agree is that if you have two equally great surgeons; one doing the older  pre-made slits and the other doing more evolved techniques like stick&place or DHI (without pre-made slits) they will both achieve the exact same results. I do believe that in this situation the great surgeon doing stick&place or DHI will get a better result. If that wasn`t true then Dr. Konior would also be doing pre-made slits instead of stick&place because it`s a technique that demands much less effort from the Doctor.

I just saw that Dr. Bicer is now a recommended surgeon at HRN and I hope to also see HLC on that list in the future because I believe they are the best in Turkey and one of the best in the world for BHT.

Edited September 24, 2021 by Portugal25

[Portugal25]

Just updated my table to include Dr. Bicer. 

HRN friends let me know if any information on this needs to be updated.

 

 

Edited September 24, 2021 by Portugal25

[Britanium]

7 hours ago, Portugal25 said:

Just updated my table to include Dr. Bicer. 

HRN friends let me know if any information on this needs to be updated.

 

 

Thanks for this 👍🏽 It’s so handy to have 👌

[RandoBrando517]

14 hours ago, hairtxp said:

All of these comments are very helpful. May just stick with HLC since my budget allows. Was hoping to get overwhelming evidence that Bicer was just as good so I could save my 6K :). 

Damn HLC is not worth 6k more no way maybe De Freitas but not HLC

[RandoBrando517]

7 hours ago, Portugal25 said:

Just updated my table to include Dr. Bicer. 

HRN friends let me know if any information on this needs to be updated.

 

 

You’re the MVP

[Portugal25]

@RandoBrando517thanks and I agree with you that wouldn’t pay extra 6k for HLC unless I wanted BHT.
Even though I believe HLC are the best in Turkey at that price point I would much rather go to Dr. Pinto and Dr. Ximena Villa. 

Edited September 24, 2021 by Portugal25

[RandoBrando517]

Just now, Portugal25 said:

@RandoBrando517thanks and I agree with you that wouldn’t pay extra 6k for HLC unless I wanted BHT. I would rather go to Dr. Pinto and Dr. Ximena that charge the same price as HLC. 

Yup if HLC is better than Bicer it’s marginal at best in my opinion not 6k better

[MachoVato]

17 minutes ago, Portugal25 said:

@RandoBrando517thanks and I agree with you that wouldn’t pay extra 6k for HLC unless I wanted BHT.
Even though I believe HLC are the best in Turkey at that price point I would much rather go to Dr. Pinto and Dr. Ximena Villa. 

When I was researching my first transplant, I never came across Bicer. Even today, there's just not a lot of patient cases (I can say the same thing for Ferreira), just not much evidence. Today, on this forum there's not a lot of HLC patient cases, even fewer Bicer cases. But HLC has a lot more patient cases on other forums and a good number of videos.

Price comparison is difficult to me. If Bicer is $2/graft and Konior is $16/graft... is he really 8X better? If HLC is $3/graft, are they 50% better? It's a terrible way to compare talented doctors. And as a community, we always say don't let price make the decision for you. Always look at results and you'll naturally gravitate towards one.

I agree that at the 2.5 Euro/graft price, there's many options available... Pinto, Vila, BHR Spain, Pekiner, Maras, etc. as you're list says. In my opinion, they are all pretty equal. I wouldn't call it an upgrade unless I move into the 4-5 Euro/graft, ala De Freitas, Bisanga, Feriduni, Lorenzo. 

It does kinda seem the levels are priced in. 1-2 Euro... 2-3 Euro... 3-5 Euro... then American/Canadian crazy prices. Haha!

[JDEE0]

7 hours ago, Portugal25 said:

Just updated my table to include Dr. Bicer. 

HRN friends let me know if any information on this needs to be updated.

 

 

Thanks for taking the time to put this together!

Just for accuracy's sake though, Pinto is 2.60 per graft (or was as of May this year at least) and De Freitas drops down to 2.50 EUR after the first 2000 grafts I think? Someone else can clear that one up as I'm not sure of the exact figure, but I was quoted 6.5k EUR for 2200 grafts last year. 

[RandoBrando517]

16 minutes ago, MachoVato said:

When I was researching my first transplant, I never came across Bicer. Even today, there's just not a lot of patient cases (I can say the same thing for Ferreira), just not much evidence. Today, on this forum there's not a lot of HLC patient cases, even fewer Bicer cases. But HLC has a lot more patient cases on other forums and a good number of videos.

Price comparison is difficult to me. If Bicer is $2/graft and Konior is $16/graft... is he really 8X better? If HLC is $3/graft, are they 50% better? It's a terrible way to compare talented doctors. And as a community, we always say don't let price make the decision for you. Always look at results and you'll naturally gravitate towards one.

I agree that at the 2.5 Euro/graft price, there's many options available... Pinto, Vila, BHR Spain, Pekiner, Maras, etc. as you're list says. In my opinion, they are all pretty equal. I wouldn't call it an upgrade unless I move into the 4-5 Euro/graft, ala De Freitas, Bisanga, Feriduni, Lorenzo. 

It does kinda seem the levels are priced in. 1-2 Euro... 2-3 Euro... 3-5 Euro... then American/Canadian crazy prices. Haha!

As much as this forum says price shouldn’t matter it does. 6k aint chump change you have to ask yourself is it really worth the extra money hell you can go on vacation with that money. Personally I don’t think they’re worth that much extra. 

[MachoVato]

28 minutes ago, RandoBrando517 said:

As much as this forum says price shouldn’t matter it does. 6k aint chump change you have to ask yourself is it really worth the extra money hell you can go on vacation with that money. Personally I don’t think they’re worth that much extra. 

Oh, I agree. But I'm not sure about the OP's math. 4000 grafts with Bicer is 6k Euro. HLC should be 10k if he can get them to price @ 2.5 (instead of 2.7). That's a 4k difference. Still a lot of money, but is within his budget. 

 

[MachoVato]

And a final note about these prices. Bicer charges 1.5 for motorized extractions with pre-made incisions, 2.5 for manual extractions. HLC is only manual extraction and only stick and place technique.

[Britanium]

De Freitas is €3.50 for first 1000 grafts and then €2.50 thereafter last time I checked. 

[Melvin- Admin]

3 minutes ago, MachoVato said:

And a final note about these prices. Bicer charges 1.5 for motorized extractions with pre-made incisions, 2.5 for manual extractions. HLC is only manual extraction and only stick and place technique.

Personally, motorized punches is probably the best way to go, there was a time when people thought that manual punches were somehow superior, but they're not. If anything, it becomes more labor-intensive for the surgeon. It may be okay if there are 5 technicians doing the extractions, but if it's only one surgeon, it's definitely not better. The whole manual vs motorized discussion got a lot of hype because Dr. Lorenzo used manual punches. But some of the world's best surgeons including Dr. Konior used motorized punches all the time. 

[MachoVato]

1 minute ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Personally, motorized punches is probably the best way to go, there was a time when people thought that manual punches were somehow superior, but they're not. If anything, it becomes more labor-intensive for the surgeon. It may be okay if there are 5 technicians doing the extractions, but if it's only one surgeon, it's definitely not better. The whole manual vs motorized discussion got a lot of hype because Dr. Lorenzo used manual punches. But some of the world's best surgeons including Dr. Konior used motorized punches all the time. 

Bisanga also uses motorized. But we're discussing two clinics and in this case we should price apples to apples.

The price reflects the extra time and effort. 

[Melvin- Admin]

4 minutes ago, MachoVato said:

Bisanga also uses motorized. But we're discussing two clinics and in this case we should price apples to apples.

The price reflects the extra time and effort. 

You’re absolutely right. That is why she charges more for manual. In my opinion, 1.5 is extremely low, she should bump it up to $2 with her skill and ethics. I think that’s a fair price for a surgeon performing the work. That said, I don’t know how we got hung up on prices lol. Op if you prefer HLC’s results choose them, if you prefer Bicer’s choose her, in the end money comes and goes. Let the results be the deciding factor.