6 months and 3 weeks post OP

[jambopilgrim]

Hi all, 

I had 2800 grafts from middle to front of my head. Initially thought it was going well and now a little worried. I know I need to sit tight but cannot help but think it’s not going be an end result I am particularly happy with. I would appreciate your thoughts. I have included a few photos from different views for you to see and comment on. Many thanks 

Edited April 30, 2021 by jambopilgrim
Said 3 years instead of weeks

[UnbaldEagle]

The density is a bit low, but you're only halfway in, I hope it will fill in. 

When you pull back your hair, at least your hairline looks natural. 

[Domino]

I don’t know enough to give an opinion, sorry. Can you style it in a way your comfortable with? Also can I ask how long did it take for the redness to go away? Really hoping the growing really picks up for you in the coming months. Thanks 

[gillenator]

You may just have slower regrowth...it will be interesting to see how the next several months transpire...wish you well.

[Britanium]

Please can you let us know who the clinic/Dr was ? Fingers crossed that your a slower grower. 🤞 monthly updates would be great ! 

[gillenator]

Monthly updates would be helpful.

[SD1984]

Clinic name if you don't mind?

[RandoBrando517]

Looks okay when you comb it down or back

[jambopilgrim]

Thanks for responses. I will definitely post monthly. I think it is starting to fill in but hard to tell. I will post again one month after my original post! 

The surgeon was Dr. Ilker Apaydin in Turkey. 

Edited May 15, 2021 by jambopilgrim

[T95good]

If it makes you feel better I went to HLC and about to hit Month 5 with Slow growth (hopefully just slow) you can see my post in the surgeon review thread.

[Melvin- Admin]

 

[jambopilgrim]

@T95good I did just see your post after I posted😀. Thanks. I will follow your posts. Hopefully everything works out well for you. 

[ciaus]

Was this pic immediate post-op? The swelling on your forehead looks pretty dramatic. How long did it stay like this? And did it seem to respond well to your attempts to reduce the swelling? My frontal procedures were smaller so that was probably why it wasn't as bad. Maybe some others that have had comparable numbers of grafts in one sitting can chime in.

 

[jambopilgrim]

No, it was the day after. The swelling was a bit dramatic but from what I see from others it pretty normal/common. It subsided after a week. 

Edited May 15, 2021 by jambopilgrim

[jambopilgrim]

Thanks for your post Mr Moderator @Melvin-Moderator. 

Edited May 15, 2021 by jambopilgrim

[hello12345]

Any updates??

[jambopilgrim]

Here is my update after 10 months. It’s not as dense as I would like but currently under consultation with Dr Mark Tam to have a second HT in a a few months time. 

[gillenator]

Nice update...it's good that you are waiting a full year before having your second procedure...do you have an idea as to how many grafts will be in your next procedure?

[jambopilgrim]

Based on the photos I sent, Dr Mark Tam estimates about 2,300 grafts. I also reached out to HLC who suggested about 2000 to 2,500 to rebuild hair line, temples etc. 

Edited August 14, 2021 by jambopilgrim

[AvoidDrIlkerApaydin]

Hi Jambopilgrim, I'm sure by now you've had your 2nd HT with a more reputable doctor, so I hope everything's going well.

I also - regrettably -  had a HT with Dr. Ilker Apaydin.

I'm over 6-months post-op now and boy do our results look similar....

Just like you, there is no density in the recipient area despite the large number of grafts extracted.

If he had done the job correctly, you (and I) shouldn't really need a 2nd HT.

But Dr. Apaydin botches hair transplants. That's just what he does.

The extractions were rushed and done sloppily by nurses/techs. They were talking and giggling the entire procedure. They didn't even bother to space the extractions, literally ripping a bald spot in the back of my head. No joke.

Day 1 Post-op 

 

Day 10 Post-op

Day 20 Post-op

Day 30 Post-op

And so on and so on....

When I confronted the doctor, he tried to convince me it was "Perfectly normal!"

His argument was basically "What's wrong with you? It looks fine! Who you going to believe, your 'lying eyes' or me a doctor?" 

Ummm....I'll believe my "lying eyes." 

I asked him how long would it take to fill in the bald spot that his clinic ripped into my donor zone.

"Couple weeks!" 

It took 10 WEEKS....and that's with 4 PRPs to accelerate the growth. Without the PRPs, it might have taken half a year to cover the bald spot. 

Obviously if a clinic is this sloppy and unethical with something as straightforward as spacing extractions, you can imagine things only went downhill from there. 

Like you, there is no density in my recipient area. It's obvious just looking, but I wanted to be scientific about the matter. So I cut my hair short and counted the grafts per sqcm.

As you can see, you can count about 25 grafts per sqcm. Since the recipient area is about 30sqcm total, this means 750 grafts survived. Problem is, they extracted 2,250 grafts which means only about 33% of the grafts survived. They might as well have extracted the other 1,500 grafts and just thrown them directly into the rubbish bin. Wasted. Gone. Forever. 

So my donor was needlessly ripped apart with no benefit to my recipient area in terms of density.

But it gets worse.

Dr. Apaydin's clinic didn't even bother to separate the singles/doubles/triples.

Sooo.....they implanted doubles/triples all along my hairline for that notorious "pluggy" look.  

But it gets worse. 

Dr. Apaydin got the directions/angles of the hairs wrong so all along my frontal hairline the hairs grow straight up to the sky like bamboo shoots instead of growing forward like in a natural hairline. 

But it gets worse. 

The hairline design was unnatural with the temple lines bending forward instead of slightly backward.

And on top of that his hand slipped drawing the frontal hairline so it droops down unnaturally on one side (I actually caught this mistake in the consultation but I hesitated to point it out b/c whenever I asked questions he became visibly annoyed). 

OP day hairline (hairline droops down from doctor's slipup) 

OP finished (hairline droops down from doctor's slipup) 

Hairline droops down on one side (I pluck these hairs out every few weeks otherwise I look like a freak) 

I noticed that you also got "mushroom head" swelling. Some level of swelling is normal, but it seems all of Dr. Apaydin's patients get this severe swelling...and I only had 2,250 grafts. 

I've seen patients of reputable doctors with 3,4 thousand grafts and they don't swell up this bad.

On the day of surgery, I remember the nurses/techs kept jabbing me all over the head and they didn't seem to wait a few minutes to let the anesthesia take effect before jabbing more and more...I read one story by a guy on this forum who thought he might go into cardiac arrest from the anesthesia which caused his heart rate to spike above 100bpm. 

All in all, everything was rushed and sloppy. There is no dedication to the patient. The doctor promised to "supervise" the extractions, but he vanished after finishing the incisions in the morning. Apparently he left me in the clinic alone with the nurses/techs - which is illegal - who did the extractions/implantations in the afternoon. 

I think it would take a miracle to get a good result from Dr. Apaydin's clinic. He's in the wrong career. He's better at marketing than surgery....

For more details and photos of my HT click the link below. 

[Melvin- Admin]

On 1/1/2022 at 2:48 AM, AvoidDrIlkerApaydin said:

Hi Jambopilgrim, I'm sure by now you've had your 2nd HT with a more reputable doctor, so I hope everything's going well.

I also - regrettably -  had a HT with Dr. Ilker Apaydin.

I'm over 6-months post-op now and boy do our results look similar....

Just like you, there is no density in the recipient area despite the large number of grafts extracted.

If he had done the job correctly, you (and I) shouldn't really need a 2nd HT.

But Dr. Apaydin botches hair transplants. That's just what he does.

The extractions were rushed and done sloppily by nurses/techs. They were talking and giggling the entire procedure. They didn't even bother to space the extractions, literally ripping a bald spot in the back of my head. No joke.

Day 1 Post-op 

 

Day 10 Post-op

Day 20 Post-op

Day 30 Post-op

And so on and so on....

When I confronted the doctor, he tried to convince me it was "Perfectly normal!"

His argument was basically "What's wrong with you? It looks fine! Who you going to believe, your 'lying eyes' or me a doctor?" 

Ummm....I'll believe my "lying eyes." 

I asked him how long would it take to fill in the bald spot that his clinic ripped into my donor zone.

"Couple weeks!" 

It took 10 WEEKS....and that's with 4 PRPs to accelerate the growth. Without the PRPs, it might have taken half a year to cover the bald spot. 

Obviously if a clinic is this sloppy and unethical with something as straightforward as spacing extractions, you can imagine things only went downhill from there. 

Like you, there is no density in my recipient area. It's obvious just looking, but I wanted to be scientific about the matter. So I cut my hair short and counted the grafts per sqcm.

As you can see, you can count about 25 grafts per sqcm. Since the recipient area is about 30sqcm total, this means 750 grafts survived. Problem is, they extracted 2,250 grafts which means only about 33% of the grafts survived. They might as well have extracted the other 1,500 grafts and just thrown them directly into the rubbish bin. Wasted. Gone. Forever. 

So my donor was needlessly ripped apart with no benefit to my recipient area in terms of density.

But it gets worse.

Dr. Apaydin's clinic didn't even bother to separate the singles/doubles/triples.

Sooo.....they implanted doubles/triples all along my hairline for that notorious "pluggy" look.  

But it gets worse. 

Dr. Apaydin got the directions/angles of the hairs wrong so all along my frontal hairline the hairs grow straight up to the sky like bamboo shoots instead of growing forward like in a natural hairline. 

But it gets worse. 

The hairline design was unnatural with the temple lines bending forward instead of slightly backward.

And on top of that his hand slipped drawing the frontal hairline so it droops down unnaturally on one side (I actually caught this mistake in the consultation but I hesitated to point it out b/c whenever I asked questions he became visibly annoyed). 

OP day hairline (hairline droops down from doctor's slipup) 

OP finished (hairline droops down from doctor's slipup) 

Hairline droops down on one side (I pluck these hairs out every few weeks otherwise I look like a freak) 

I noticed that you also got "mushroom head" swelling. Some level of swelling is normal, but it seems all of Dr. Apaydin's patients get this severe swelling...and I only had 2,250 grafts. 

I've seen patients of reputable doctors with 3,4 thousand grafts and they don't swell up this bad.

On the day of surgery, I remember the nurses/techs kept jabbing me all over the head and they didn't seem to wait a few minutes to let the anesthesia take effect before jabbing more and more...I read one story by a guy on this forum who thought he might go into cardiac arrest from the anesthesia which caused his heart rate to spike above 100bpm. 

All in all, everything was rushed and sloppy. There is no dedication to the patient. The doctor promised to "supervise" the extractions, but he vanished after finishing the incisions in the morning. Apparently he left me in the clinic alone with the nurses/techs - which is illegal - who did the extractions/implantations in the afternoon. 

I think it would take a miracle to get a good result from Dr. Apaydin's clinic. He's in the wrong career. He's better at marketing than surgery....

For more details and photos of my HT click the link below. 

Please stick to posting your story on your own thread and not derailing others.

[jambopilgrim]

@AvoidDrIlkerApaydinsorry to hear you did not have a good experience with Dr Apaydin. I also did not have a great experience. I did have some pretty severe swelling and the density is not great. I did get my head inspected by Dr Tam on Harley Street who felt it could have been better but definitely not a botch job. Singles in my hairline and the correct angles etc were observed and relatively natural looking overall in terms of the hairline, main issue is lacking density overall. 
 

I have not had a second HT yet but booked into HLC Ankara on 14 and 15 Feb (they do it over 2 days). I will let you know what they say also. I am looking forward to finishing the job off. I definitely would not go back to Dr Apaydin and worried about the remaining grafts I have left. HLC will use about 2000 to 2500 more to get the density I require. 
 

Hopefully you can get yours sorted out soon. I was tempted to go to Dr Tam but decided to go to HLC as had been looking at them for a while and wish I had gone there first time. I was a little naive the first time round and admittedly did not do enough research for which I take responsibly for now and at peace with Dr Apaydin etc. When I contracted the clinic they were not that interested and questioned my own aftercare but I just ceased communication and started to review alternative options. Fortunately my hair loss is moderate and still have a a relatively good donor area. I am confident HLC will sort me out and can move on from there. 

Edited January 3, 2022 by jambopilgrim

[AvoidDrIlkerApaydin]

Hi Jambopilgrim - thanks so much for replying! We're kind of in the same boat, but you're several months ahead of me so I'd really be interested in following your progress. 

3 hours ago, jambopilgrim said:

Singles in my hairline and the correct angles etc were observed and relatively natural looking overall in terms of the hairline, main issue is lacking density overall. 

Yeah, other than the density he didn't seem to butcher all the other aspects of your surgery. The hairline itself looks good. Happy for your in that respect.

But man...the density. Mine is atrocious at around 33%, but yours reminds me of an American who recently left a RealSelf review in November reporting a survival rate of 15-20%. Look for "Botched Operation - Dr. Ilker Apaydin." He posted lots of photos. 

Your 6-month post-op photos look eerily similar to his....just sparse hairs growing in the recipient area.

So no, you're not alone. And no, it's not the fault of your "aftercare." It's squarely the responsibility of Dr. Apaydin...but I'm not surprised he shifts blame to his patients. 

HLC seems a great choice, and knowing they will split the surgery over 2 days is definitely reassuring. Taking things slow and easy appears to be the only way to get a proper result. 

Looking forward to your progress! Definitely keep in touch. 

[jambopilgrim]

Density is not great but would say more than 15-20% survival rate. Here are my pre op pictures. 

 

 

Edited January 4, 2022 by jambopilgrim

[AvoidDrIlkerApaydin]

Hi Jambopilgrim, sorry didn't see this until now b/c I didn't get any e-mail notification. But now I'm following this topic so I should. Newbie here!

Thanks for the pre-op "before" photos. Definitely helps clarify. 

Btw, I just saw another "low density" complaint on RealSelf by a guy reporting a 20% survival rate! Seems to be a very common result with Dr. Apaydin. Might consider writing a review there? It's easy to create an account and write a review. Might help others avoid the same plight.

I know your "repair" HT is coming up soon so hopefully this will all be behind you in short order! I won't say "good luck" b/c I've learned it's not really about luck but choosing the right doctor/clinic with a proven track record of  providing consistent results. HLC has a good reputation so it seems you'll be in good hands.