Terrified of Fin, the side effects, and the serious implications it has

[Hairtroubles]

46 minutes ago, Dr. Neil Verma said:

When starting finasteride it is best to start with as low a dose as possible and low a frequency of use as possible.  This typically does a good job to minimize side effects.  

Thanks Doc, as a doctor, how many patients do you treat for this, and how many come with side effects, in real numbers.  I keep getting directed to other PFS pages and its quite terrifying overall.  

 

Trust me, theres nothing more than me wanting to take this.  Also, does Topical Fin go systematic, would that be safe?

[Dr. Neil Verma]

Topical finasteride does go systemic.  I treat majority of my patients with medications.  Probably 10% or so have experienced side effects so they stop the medication, reduce the dose or the frequency of use and then the situation improves.  If you have a history of low libido or depression I would say stay away from it.  

[Hairtroubles]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Neil Verma said:

Topical finasteride does go systemic.  I treat majority of my patients with medications.  Probably 10% or so have experienced side effects so they stop the medication, reduce the dose or the frequency of use and then the situation improves.  If you have a history of low libido or depression I would say stay away from it.  

Thanks, I actually have a high libidio, am always quite horny and in the mood for sex, however, depression, I use to be on Anti-depressants. Does that mean I shouldn't take it, how come you say this "If you have a history of low libido or depression I would say stay away from it"?  

As you can tell, I am an over thinking, and there was a time in life that I was very down and resulted to anti-depressants, but does that make me depressed, I don't know, I feel okay now.  I get down and over think, for an example, every day this week I have been on this forum, reddit, and feel worse and worse each day, conflicted by the different advice of people saying 'take it' and others saying 'stay away from it, its the worst choice I ever made'.  So what do you advise as a doctor?

[Dr. Neil Verma]

If you have a history of depression then it could be that taking finasteride could trigger a relapse as it may heighten anxiety and low mood.  You would have to have an close relationship with your prescribing doctor to monitor for the earliest signs of anxiety or low mood and carefully evaluate the risks vs benefits.  I can't provide you with medical advice via this forum just a bit of information.   

[Hairtroubles]

1 minute ago, Dr. Neil Verma said:

If you have a history of depression then it could be that taking finasteride could trigger a relapse as it may heighten anxiety and low mood.  You would have to have an close relationship with your prescribing doctor to monitor for the earliest signs of anxiety or low mood and carefully evaluate the risks vs benefits.  I can't provide you with medical advice via this forum just a bit of information.   

I understand, the thing is, with doctors in the UK, its awful, the GP's are different doctors, I dont have one doctor.  I am going to Boots to speak to a pharmacist tomorrow, but I just think they will say "yeah no one has sides just 2% take it we can stop it if you want", but what if thats too late, or like you say, triggers something?

How would that work by the way, if I had depression, would just taking the pill for a trials sake be too late and too risky?

[Dr. Neil Verma]

Speaking to your pharmacist is a great idea about it.  The research studies showed that side effects just like the benefits took months to happen. I inform patients of the side effects and as soon as they begin to experience them to stop the medication.  

[Gatsby]

I guess one of the big concerns about potential side effects with finasteride is the fact that they often don't appear until months after a person has commenced finasteride and a hair transplant surgery as part of a two pronged planned approach.. As the two go hand in hand in the treatment of MPB it would be unfortunate to find out down the track after surgery that the finasteride begins to show side effects. That's why I always tend to suggest to start finasteride for a good 6-12 months before any surgical intervention. You hair restoration journey can soon unravel if the medical treatment side has to be abandoned. If this becomes the case then a hair transplant may not have been the best choice to begin with due to donor (or lack of) issues. All the best!

[Hairtroubles]

12 hours ago, Dr. Neil Verma said:

Speaking to your pharmacist is a great idea about it.  The research studies showed that side effects just like the benefits took months to happen. I inform patients of the side effects and as soon as they begin to experience them to stop the medication.  

Thanks, but isn't it too late if the side effects appear ages after?  Some could be irreversible?  I spoke to my Pharmacist today, it really wasn't that helpful, he said some have sides some dont.

I also woke up to a message on reddit from a guy who has PFS saying:

Taking finasteride is the single biggest mistake that I've made in my life. Took ten pills in 2010 and have been a different person ever since. It wasn't a gradual transition, it happened practically overnight. Horrible anxiety, changes in cognition and personality... I don't have kids but I've read about PFS people who don't love their kids after they got the side effects. I've lost close family members and not felt anything - it's like any random stranger died. The whole situation is torture beyond belief. Losing my sense of self, my sexuality, my ambition... and at the same time having all my emotions stolen from me so I can't even get angry about it. True PFS is very rare, fortunately. And even if you get side effects, they usually resolve within 3-6 months. That makes it easy for people to dismiss the very tiny minority who get really fucked up from finasteride. You can take the chance, of course. But I'd say that the benefits of hair are pretty minor (although it may not seem that way now), and that the value of your health and sanity is incalculable. So you're rolling the dice - medium chance of having some hair back, plus a very small chance that you'll be cognitively and sexually disabled for years

[ciaus]

To the forum members that think you are helping this guy by answering his questions: You're not.

He has some serious mental problems that need to be addressed by a professional. Maybe he is seeing a professional for these issues, and if so, the treatments are clearly not working. All he is doing is using your answers to feed his paranoia and turn around and ask more questions. Help him by not trying to help him, none of us are qualified.

 

[Melvin- Admin]

10 minutes ago, ciaus said:

To the forum members that think you are helping this guy by answering his questions: You're not.

He has some serious mental problems that need to be addressed by a professional. Maybe he is seeing a professional for these issues, and if so, the treatments are clearly not working. All he is doing is using your answers to feed his paranoia and turn around and ask more questions. Help him by not trying to help him, none of us are qualified.

 

Agreed 

[Hairtroubles]

44 minutes ago, ciaus said:

To the forum members that think you are helping this guy by answering his questions: You're not.

He has some serious mental problems that need to be addressed by a professional. Maybe he is seeing a professional for these issues, and if so, the treatments are clearly not working. All he is doing is using your answers to feed his paranoia and turn around and ask more questions. Help him by not trying to help him, none of us are qualified.

 

I'll be completely honest, I actually laughed out loud.  Seriously.  

All of the good posts, I put into a word doc, and then I put them into different categories, its actually quite impressive, so I can make a decision and go about it.

I dont have 'serious issues', appreciate you trying to diagnose me.   I'm extremely healthy, I live a good life, the only thing I do wrong is probably drink too much soda, and thats it, but I work out, I run, play high level sports, and have an extremely good job, so its funny when I see you say that.

All my posts, and questions, are fair. I am reading tons of stuff, and people telling me to stay away from the drug and how its the worst thing they ever did, to others saying its okay but they have mild side effects, and others saying they have none.  Pretty understandable how im bloody confused, then you have people like @ciaus. Happy Fin is working for you mate and you cant empathise with me and the thousands of other people who don't just want to pop a pill and ignore the side effects... Then get outted on a forum with the moderator (Great support by the way), when this is actually playing on mind due to the conflicting opinion, oh, and there is.  

Melvin, even you in the comments on the side effects of fin poll were astonished, but cool, lets ignore the guy who is asking relevant questions and doing tons of research, because I am, and ive spoken to all sorts of people who have been affected by it, and trust me, even then I still want to take it for the sake of my hair.  I actually fully understand it now, when people with PSF say, you get bashed for 'fear mongering' or 'downvoted', i havent even taken it, and i feel like youre having a go at me for asking fair questions.

Pathetic.

[yesplease]

22 hours ago, Gatsby said:

I guess one of the big concerns about potential side effects with finasteride is the fact that they often don't appear until months after a person has commenced finasteride and a hair transplant surgery as part of a two pronged planned approach.. As the two go hand in hand in the treatment of MPB it would be unfortunate to find out down the track after surgery that the finasteride begins to show side effects. That's why I always tend to suggest to start finasteride for a good 6-12 months before any surgical intervention. You hair restoration journey can soon unravel if the medical treatment side has to be abandoned. If this becomes the case then a hair transplant may not have been the best choice to begin with due to donor (or lack of) issues. All the best!

This is exactly right. 
 

I started fin with the hopes of being on it for a few years before likely proceeding with a HT. I experienced sides, however, and was unable to continue it. 
 

Not having my MPB truly “stabilized” now makes me quite hesitant to pull the trigger on surgery. I’ve definitely lost ground since abandoning fin. And recovering from the sides has been a challenge. 
 

With the benefit of hindsight, I definitely would not take fin if I had it to do over again. 
 

And, I’m a physician, and do not believe I was biased towards SEs before starting fin. 

[Hairtroubles]

6 hours ago, yesplease said:

This is exactly right. 
 

I started fin with the hopes of being on it for a few years before likely proceeding with a HT. I experienced sides, however, and was unable to continue it. 
 

Not having my MPB truly “stabilized” now makes me quite hesitant to pull the trigger on surgery. I’ve definitely lost ground since abandoning fin. And recovering from the sides has been a challenge. 
 

With the benefit of hindsight, I definitely would not take fin if I had it to do over again. 
 

And, I’m a physician, and do not believe I was biased towards SEs before starting fin. 

Thanks man, and its posts EXACTLY like this which help me, or may hinder me I do not know, but I have read now posts like this in the 50-100's.  Do you not feel the same since?  There are too many posts of these to ignore?

One thing I do want to know is, getting a HT without Fin before or Prior, is it even worth it?  I hear hairs on different parts of the body can stay on the head, but I have read differently here.  Basically, is it worth getting a HT without Fin or Min?

 

[SD1984]

@Hairtroubles Dude, I'm not a big fan of Fin, but based on your mindset and blatantly obvious over the top paranoia, I wouldn't suggest even looking at Finasteride let alone taking it. It's clear you are unstable, don't understand the science behind the medication, the actual overall statistics of things, what the internet and media can do to a narrative (even if said narrative is somewhat true to begin with), and general transplant/MPB drug info in general. 

[bald-and-bearded]

On 4/18/2021 at 5:55 AM, Dr. Neil Verma said:

Topical finasteride does go systemic.  I treat majority of my patients with medications.  Probably 10% or so have experienced side effects so they stop the medication, reduce the dose or the frequency of use and then the situation improves.  If you have a history of low libido or depression I would say stay away from it.  

Here are studies Melvin linked on his blogpost

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6609098/

https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(00)00600-2/fulltext#:~:text=Our study suggests that topical,DHT levels over 6 months.

It does not go as much systemic according to them. Are you aware of studies that indicate the opposite?

Edited June 5, 2021 by bald-and-bearded

[Hairtroubles]

12 hours ago, SD1984 said:

@Hairtroubles Dude, I'm not a big fan of Fin, but based on your mindset and blatantly obvious over the top paranoia, I wouldn't suggest even looking at Finasteride let alone taking it. It's clear you are unstable, don't understand the science behind the medication, the actual overall statistics of things, what the internet and media can do to a narrative (even if said narrative is somewhat true to begin with), and general transplant/MPB drug info in general. 

I really really want/wanted to take Fin, I still have it sitting next to me, just not sure if I can even risk it man. Maybe I over think things, yes, but i ve seen enough people saying they have side effects thouhg to know they must be real

[SD1984]

They are real. Doesn't mean you will get them. That said, I don't suggest you take it.

[Hairtroubles]

Just now, SD1984 said:

They are real. Doesn't mean you will get them. That said, I don't suggest you take it.

So my only alternative is ... go bald, and hair transplant?

[SD1984]

How old are you if you don't mind me asking?

[Hairtroubles]

1 minute ago, SD1984 said:

How old are you if you don't mind me asking?

29

[SD1984]

I would suggest speaking to a therapist about your worries and anxiety in general. Then doing research on the drug and understanding that the chances of you getting "permanent ED" is probably somewhere along the lines of 1 in 10,000. If you want to keep your hair, Finasteride is sadly the only thing on the market that will do it. That's reality.

[Hairtroubles]

1 minute ago, SD1984 said:

I would suggest speaking to a therapist about your worries and anxiety in general. Then doing research on the drug and understanding that the chances of you getting "permanent ED" is probably somewhere along the lines of 1 in 10,000. If you want to keep your hair, Finasteride is sadly the only thing on the market that will do it. That's reality.

Hey man, appreciate the thoughts, i actually am getting therpay right now for it.  Had my first session yesterday....  I have apparently she said 'general anxiety disorder'... 

 

Still not sure if after that, I would still take Fin, I dunno man, i really dont know, I wish there were more concrete studies on it.

[victormaitland]

I am currently taking 2.5mg a week of Fin, a very low dose. It is a powerful drug if it works for you. The low dose I am currently on stabilises my hair loss quite well; when I was young, results were even more impressive - many follicles recovered and I went through my 20s with beautiful thick hair.  The negative: It did have sides for me, but they do go away when I stop using it (I have had periods on and off the drug for the last 8 years). Fin is tricky because sides never come right way, it takes about 2-3 months of it being in my system before I notice 'the numbness'. It can be really disturbing and get in your head - but there are many things that impact mood and libido - so it is important to have a very balanced mind before you start taking it. I would stop using Fin tomorrow if anything more effective ever replaced it, but there is nothing nearly as effective in my case, even with a hair transplant I will require Fin ongoing.