Konior and Shapiro : differences ?

[vport11]

Hi!

 

I am planning to do a FUT. After browsing this forum and doing some other research online, I decided I would either go with Konior or Shapiro.

 

I already know I would be in experts' hands in both cases... But I still can't decide.

 

I am not looking to find out who is the best.

What I am looking for is to have a better idea of how choosing one or the other would differ on different levels... (patient care, team assistance vs surgeon doing the work, pre and post op patient experience, general approach to the FUT and transplant, etc.).

 

I hope you can find something to guide my decision here!

 

Thanks in advance ))

[home1212]

Hi!

 

I am planning to do a FUT. After browsing this forum and doing some other research online, I decided I would either go with Konior or Shapiro.

 

I already know I would be in experts' hands in both cases... But I still can't decide.

 

I am not looking to find out who is the best.

What I am looking for is to have a better idea of how choosing one or the other would differ on different levels... (patient care, team assistance vs surgeon doing the work, pre and post op patient experience, general approach to the FUT and transplant, etc.).

 

I hope you can find something to guide my decision here!

 

Thanks in advance ))

 

there is no "best" between Konior & Shapiro - they are equally "top elite docs" - depends on what your looking to achieve, ie. aggressive vs. conservative restoration, etc. - you should be consulting with both docs and maybe a 3rd alternative on your list who might surprise you - (ie. Hasson & Wong, Rahal, etc.). and then see how each different doc addresses your specific needs, how do they plan for your restoration? in one or multiple sessions? how many grafts do they recommend to achive your goals? how they each address your needs and concerns? etc. then you decide who is the "best" for your situation - in this top class of surgeons, they're all superior - it depends which one suits your needs ... that's a decision only you can make ...

[vport11]

Well that's exactly what I wrote : not looking for the best, but looking to compare what they have to offer. Which one is more conservative or aggressive? What are their strength or best know for ?

 

I am from abroad, so consultations are only phone or email, which makes it more difficult to get a feel of how different they are.

 

Any one here with some input ?

Edited April 21, 2016 by vport11

[Garageland]

I wouldn't say that there is too much to choose from in terms of both clinics they have stellar reputations and rightly so. I don't think one is more aggressive than the other from the results I have seen and approach. How many grafts have you been quoted by each of them? Is being aggressive required in your case?

 

When it comes to FUT the role of the Doctors should be fairly similar that he designs the hairline, removes the strip and closes and makes the recipient area incisions. Technicians dissect and trim the grafts and place into the sites made by the Doctor.

 

I have heard that Dr Konior places all the grafts but Spanker who represents him be able to confirm this to be the case or not. There are many patients of each clinic on this forum that will be able answer your questions about pre and post op experiences. Good luck, which ever you choose you will be in very good hands.

[Stig]

Both surgeons are very hands on, each only performs a single surgery a day, Dr Shapiro is present and participates in a significant portion of the graft placements and delegates a portion of this to techs, whilst Konior will do this all himself. Although both are highly skilled, I get the impression that Shapiro is more highly renowned amongst his peers than Konior. After care at both clinics is probably comparible. Konior is more conservative than Shapiro. Shapiro is more renowned for his hairlines than Konior. Konior seems to be very meticulous and double checks everything. Konior is more expensive. Konior has a longer waitlist (only because he runs a 1 man clinic whilst Shapiro Medical has 3 surgeons). Overall, I prefer Shapiro over Konior.

[Spanker]

Both surgeons are very hands on, each only performs a single surgery a day, Dr Shapiro is present and participates in a significant portion of the graft placements and delegates a portion of this to techs, whilst Konior will do this all himself. Although both are highly skilled, I get the impression that Shapiro is more highly renowned amongst his peers than Konior. After care at both clinics is probably comparible. Konior is more conservative than Shapiro. Shapiro is more renowned for his hairlines than Konior. Konior seems to be very meticulous and double checks everything. Konior is more expensive. Konior has a longer waitlist (only because he runs a 1 man clinic whilst Shapiro Medical has 3 surgeons). Overall, I prefer Shapiro over Konior.

 

I would disagree with the conservatism of the hairlines comment and also one being more renowned for hairlines over the other. They both produce perfectly natural hairlines and are 2 of the best in the business. That is just my take and I follow both surgeons and their results very closely. Just my opinion.

[Spanker]

I feel like I should chime in because I see it a lot on these boards and I do not want anyone to be misled.

 

Dr. Konior does not place every single graft himself on every case. On premade openings, which consist of about 5% of his cases, his assistant of 10 years does place some, and he supervises every graft, meaning, grafts do not get placed with him not there. Only he and she place grafts and he will place the majority. On stick an place, he places them all and she assists. This kind of takes out the unknown factor of technicians. The results that you see are going to be consistently done on you by the same skill level of the results that you see online. He does every FUE extraction and does this solely manual now.

 

I don't know that any doctor can actually be involved than he is in the procedure, but I want to prevent someone from having a procedure and being misled that Dr. K does not allow his assistant to place any grafts at all, ever..

 

That said, I am not selling to you OP, I think SMG is a great clinic and these are the same 2 clinics that I narrowed my search down to before pulling the trigger. Make a decision when you are ready, and one that you know you will not second guess. That will make recovery time easier on you as you will be completely content in your decision.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Spanker

[Stig]

I am not looking to find out who is the best.

))

 

Um, that's silly, this should be the single biggest deciding factor in your decision.

[vport11]

I don't think it's silly... As I wrote at the beginning of my thread, I know that one of these two surgeons might be a better fit for some patients, whereas the other one might be a better choice for others.

 

I am trying to figure out who to pinpoint who would be the best for me, as opposed to THE one and only best surgeon.... Both are amazing I am sure.

 

Any other opinions?

[esrec]

For starters, know that this is the easiest difficult decision you'll ever have to make. Its like choosing between 2 Victoria Secret models.

 

I consulted with both, they were my final two, I went with Shapiro. Its too early for me to speak of results or sing praise as much as I'd like to. I'm only 6 months out. But I felt equally comfortable with both and timing (strategy-some) played into my decision.

 

I'm a very meticulous guy and was instantly drawn to both of them for that very reason. They are extremely detail oriented and both seem to genuinely enjoy their craft. Dr. Ron spoke to me on the phone for an hour on a Friday night, while Konior responded to my onslaught of emails as if I was his only patient. It was incredible.

 

Beside manner was also crucial to me, after several bad consults and thinking ahead to post-op. It was clear they were both kind and warm and would be receptive long after my recovery.

 

As for procedure, Shapiro was present the entire time save the final 10-15 minutes. The techs put the finishing touches on my hairline but I'd say he performed 90%.

 

What other variables are you considering in terms of "fit". Outcome should be #1. Feel free to PM me.

[1978matt]

I feel as though Shapiro (Ron or Paul) are a bit more conservative than Konior but it depends on case to case. Not much more conservative, maybe 10% or something

 

I was fortunate a couple of years ago to observe Konior for a few hours performing an FUT. When it came to grafting he worked with 2 techs. Basically he was using stick and place. He would use a needle to make the opening and his lead tech would immediately insert the graft. The second technincian was passing the grafts in batches to the lead tech (a few at a time). Everyone is using high powered magnification lenses.

 

There was a break every 45-60mins for 10minutes or so (all placement stops). Behind the operating chair the other 8 or 9 techs are working on strip, sorting the grafts out, putting into cold storage etc.

 

I didn't stay until the end but I've heard the doc likes to make some adjustments himself if necessary.

 

Not sure about Shapiro but I think they pre-make all openings (lateral slits), the doc mostly does the immediate hairline and the techs do the rest of the placement.

[matt3480]

Both are excellent....but I agree with spanker, I do not believe Shapiro is held in higher regard than Dr. K.

 

Also, you are missing one very important thing with FUT....the incision in the back. Dr. K is known to have flawless and pretty much invisible scars. Remember, he has a background in cosmetic surgery. When other surgeons screw people up scar-wise....they go to Dr. K to have it fixed.

 

As for being conservative.....it depends on your hair loss and expectations. Sure, you might want a low hairline when you are a NW5. Maybe a surgeon out there will try to do that (unethical) for you, too. Or...you could get a hairline that is appropriate for the extent of your hair loss....Konior will definitely do that for you.

 

They are both great....you won't go wrong with either.....but I think scar-wise in the back, no one will make a better incision than Konior.

[ontop]

Like O.P has said you can't go wrong with both but IMHO another pointer would take a look at both Drs work with the hairloss, density, characteristics that you have, I mean see which Dr has the most consistent good outcomes as same hairloss as yourself.

 

Again both great Drs & like others say you can't go wrong with neither of them as they both show past history of consistent results over the years.

 

Hope that was some help but good on you in really racking your brain over this than just shear emotions which I guess a lot of guys do subconsciously anyways.

 

I wish you luck in your life changing decision.

[Alpine]

I feel as though Shapiro (Ron or Paul) are a bit more conservative than Konior but it depends on case to case. Not much more conservative, maybe 10% or something

 

I was fortunate a couple of years ago to observe Konior for a few hours performing an FUT. When it came to grafting he worked with 2 techs. Basically he was using stick and place. He would use a needle to make the opening and his lead tech would immediately insert the graft. The second technincian was passing the grafts in batches to the lead tech (a few at a time). Everyone is using high powered magnification lenses.

 

There was a break every 45-60mins for 10minutes or so (all placement stops). Behind the operating chair the other 8 or 9 techs are working on strip, sorting the grafts out, putting into cold storage etc.

 

I didn't stay until the end but I've heard the doc likes to make some adjustments himself if necessary.

 

Not sure about Shapiro but I think they pre-make all openings (lateral slits), the doc mostly does the immediate hairline and the techs do the rest of the placement.

 

I recently chose Shapiro's office for a FUE procedure. We got about 2,285 units the first time and several weeks later, I went back (at no additional expense) for another 400 or so to balance out a frontal hairline portion. I can say that Shapiro's office stands behind its work. If you are unhappy or want to tweak something, they will work with you. It was abundantly clear that they want happy clients and will do what it takes (within reason) to get that. The biggest issue with NW5-6 candidates and FUE is unrealistic expectations. In my case, we targeted density in the frontal & middle portion and left the rear crown pretty much untouched as I do not mind having some normal MPB in the rear crown area. I needed all of the grafts for my frontal/mid section. If you want whole head coverage, you are realistically talking 2 procedures or grafts placed in a way that will give thinner density (not ideal). The average donor quality of mid 30's NW5-6 is not perfect and you're probably maxing out at 2,500 units per procedure. The first day they did a small number of slits and FUE extraction to gauge your donor quality and skin thickness, etc. I also opted for PRP + A-cell during the procedure to help improve recovery and yield. Anyway, I was impressed with their office. Matt Zupan (experienced consultant) bends over backwards to help and answer questions and Dr. Paul Shapiro and Dr. Josephitis -"Joe" (younger, new doctor who they hand picked) both worked on me. Ron Shapiro has scaled back some and does less procedures I'm told.

 

In my experience, Dr. Paul Shapiro makes all of the incisions. And yes, they do all of the incisions first, then later move the grafts via technicians. Dr. Joe did the hybrid manual FUE (motorized) portion of the procedure. They do not like the results they get with the patented auto/robotic option. Like Konior, they use custom punch depth and blades to best meet the clients criteria (skin thickness, donor quality, dept, ect.). The main difference is that Konior uses the "stick-and-place" technique where after each slit is made, a technician then puts the FU graft in right after. The theory is you can make smaller incisions and so have less trauma to the recipient area, quicker healing and possibly better density because of incisions made closer together. That last portion is a bit of a stretch though (sounds good). I do not think there is enough difference in graft placement (due to incision size) to give better density. But I think its possible there is some benefit to smaller incisions and getting the grafts in immediately. Regardless, I still chose Shapiro based on some other feedback. I don't think this difference in technique matters much. I do not think you can go wrong with either Shapiro's office or Konior. They are both top 5-6 offices in the world, in my opinion.

 

I am only about a month out form the procedure. Recovery is as expected with minimal pinkness/redness in the recipient site at this point. It increases with alcohol, stress, exercise - anything that would increase blood flow to the face/head or cause flushing. I would expect (hope) that that too will be gone by month 2. I'll probably wait a minimum of 4 months before direct, intense sun on the scalp.

 

Shapiro's office also offers some really good SMP too (separate SMP specialist). I was talking with an older patient when I was there. He is a veteran to the HT world and said he visited several offices before choosing Shapiro. He has maxed out his donor and has a full head of hair that looks natural. He has been getting "fill in" SMP around his existing hair to improve the appearance of density and the results were rather impressive. He showed me some before and after photos and it has definitely improved the density and looks really good. SMP, in the right hands, is a pretty good adjunct for someone who has maxed out donor or doesn't want the hassle of another procedure but needs some improved density look in certain areas.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Alpine

[lakes9925]

I wish i had went to one of these guys, I made the mistake of going to someone else who is recomended on here just because they are in my backyard, I did a whole FUT and only got about a couple hundred grafts.. he actually let his nephew do the procedure without warning me that he didnt have much expierence so they basicly trained him on me and still charged me the reg price

[Alpine]

I wish i had went to one of these guys, I made the mistake of going to someone else who is recomended on here just because they are in my backyard, I did a whole FUT and only got about a couple hundred grafts.. he actually let his nephew do the procedure without warning me that he didnt have much expierence so they basicly trained him on me and still charged me the reg price

 

I am sorry to hear that. Any clinic offering "a couple hundred grafts" is incompetent and not too concerned with client satisfaction. That is not enough grafts to do much of anything. This decision to get a HT is not something you skimp on or consider lightly. A bad HT is likely going to be worse than your situation before. Natural looking bald is better than unnatural looking bad transplant job, IMO. Go big or go home. I flew out of state to visit Shapiro's office (more travel expense). There is nobody in the top 5 within driving distance to me, so I went to them. It has to be a top notch job or it is not worth getting. There are already so many factors and variables that can lead to it not turning out optimal (regrowth yield, recovery, etc.). It's too risky to allow doctor/technician inexperience to be another factor in outcome. Even with the BEST clinic, your result may not be the best considering your starting point (degree of loss) and your donor quality and final yield. These are out of the doctors control for the most part.

 

That is my recommendation to the general forum. Spend the money and go with a reputable, EXPERIENCED clinic. If nobody has heard of them, stay away. A "budget" HT is asking for trouble. You get what you pay for and I dont mind paying a premium or getting ripped a bit for extra piece of mind.

[esrec]

We're very lucky that two of the world's best surgeons also happen to be very kind and thoughtful people too. This is sometimes rare in medicine where egos rule the day.

 

Having had surgery with Dr. Ron and meeting with Dr. Konior in person last week, I can tell you that they are both class acts. Similar demeanor and approaches, both of whom (unsurprisingly) have immense respect for each other.