2800 Grafts Dr. Lorenzo Repair 2 Previous HTs with Dr. Harris

[myfueblog]

Hello Guys,

 

I have been reading this forum for years and I have been researching and suffering hair loss also for more than 15 years.

 

I had my first HT (crown and hairline) with Dr. Jim Harris (ARTAS) in 2013 with horrible results (very low density plug like results) then in 2014 I had a second HT with Dr. Harris this time with manual FUE (SAFE System) and I got a little better results (I would say 70% happy with the hairline but only 30% happy with the crown). Dr. Harris offered a heavily discounted 3rd surgery to repair the 2 previous surgeries but again what he offered was very conservative, low number of grafts and he even recognized that he prefer to do several relative small surgeries vs one or two high density ones. I totally disagree. Every surgery is 10 days that I need to take off of work, 2-3 months of recovery to have a presentable hair again (I do lectures and public presentation to large amount of people) and a full year to see the results. I am 41 years old single and I can't waste more of my time with small surgeries to enjoy my hair while I am still young. Money was never an issue and donor area was very good according with several doctors. On a positive side from Dr. Harris is extremely friendly and his customer service is great but at the end results is what matter to us.

 

For this reason I decided to look even around the world to see the best high density doctors and two names came to my list. Dr. Rahal and Dr. Lorenzo in Madrid, Spain. Dr. Rahal representatives after receiving my form and photos ruled me out saying that they didn't want to work in my case because of the two previous HTs (very disappointing) but Dr. Lorenzo immediately decided to take my case and he was completely sure from the beginning that he can deliver high density results with the donor area left in my scalp. I booked with him and he completed my surgery on November 2015.

 

Info of my previous surgeries:

 

Dr. Harris ARTAS October 2013: 1973 Grafts (Crown and Hairline) Horrible punch scars in my donor area from the ARTAS punch and terrible density plug like hairs in my hairline

 

Dr. Harris MANUAL SAFE System 2014: 1926 Grafts (Crown and Hairline) much better density in the hairline but again low density in the crown. Much better punch size and less scarring from this surgery in my donor area.

 

Dr. Lorenzo Manual FUE November 2015: 2800 Grafts! (1800 Crown, 1000 Top/Hairline). Amazing density in the crown and full repair of the hairline.

 

I don't know if I can post a link to my blog where I already have years of info and photos from the moment where I started to lose hair, the past two surgeries with Dr. Harris and now with Dr. Lorenzo. If that is the case please let me know and I will post the link here for you to see all the details of my surgery. I have too many there to start uploading and writing everything again on each forum.

 

I will answer any question here in the forum.

 

Thank you,

[johnny2000]

Hello Guys,

 

I have been reading this forum for years and I have been researching and suffering hair loss also for more than 15 years.

 

I had my first HT (crown and hairline) with Dr. Jim Harris (ARTAS) in 2013 with horrible results (very low density plug like results) then in 2014 I had a second HT with Dr. Harris this time with manual FUE (SAFE System) and I got a little better results (I would say 70% happy with the hairline but only 30% happy with the crown). Dr. Harris offered a heavily discounted 3rd surgery to repair the 2 previous surgeries but again what he offered was very conservative, low number of grafts and he even recognized that he prefer to do several relative small surgeries vs one or two high density ones. I totally disagree. Every surgery is 10 days that I need to take off of work, 2-3 months of recovery to have a presentable hair again (I do lectures and public presentation to large amount of people) and a full year to see the results. I am 41 years old single and I can't waste more of my time with small surgeries to enjoy my hair while I am still young. Money was never an issue and donor area was very good according with several doctors. On a positive side from Dr. Harris is extremely friendly and his customer service is great but at the end results is what matter to us.

 

For this reason I decided to look even around the world to see the best high density doctors and two names came to my list. Dr. Rahal and Dr. Lorenzo in Madrid, Spain. Dr. Rahal representatives after receiving my form and photos ruled me out saying that they didn't want to work in my case because of the two previous HTs (very disappointing) but Dr. Lorenzo immediately decided to take my case and he was completely sure from the beginning that he can deliver high density results with the donor area left in my scalp. I booked with him and he completed my surgery on November 2015.

 

Info of my previous surgeries:

 

Dr. Harris ARTAS October 2013: 1973 Grafts (Crown and Hairline) Horrible punch scars in my donor area from the ARTAS punch and terrible density plug like hairs in my hairline

 

Dr. Harris MANUAL SAFE System 2014: 1926 Grafts (Crown and Hairline) much better density in the hairline but again low density in the crown. Much better punch size and less scarring from this surgery in my donor area.

 

Dr. Lorenzo Manual FUE November 2015: 2800 Grafts! (1800 Crown, 1000 Top/Hairline). Amazing density in the crown and full repair of the hairline.

 

I don't know if I can post a link to my blog where I already have years of info and photos from the moment where I started to lose hair, the past two surgeries with Dr. Harris and now with Dr. Lorenzo. If that is the case please let me know and I will post the link here for you to see all the details of my surgery. I have too many there to start uploading and writing everything again on each forum.

 

I will answer any question here in the forum.

 

Thank you,

 

Congratz on your recent HT.

I had my HT with lorenzo on 29 october.

Right now im in the ugly phase and is worse than before because of shedding of my native hairs.

 

Did you Shed all the HT hairs yet?

Did you loose Any of your native hairs to shockloss?

[August]

Very interesting to follow your case myfueblog!

I'm convinced you're going to have very good density after this last transplant.

I must ask how you feel about the sides of your donor area. One month post your second HT you wrote that this area was clearly looking thin and that you would not take more grafts from these parts in future transplants. Yet, grafts were indeed taken from these areas in your last transplant. Had the density on the sides of your head improved significantly when the donor healed and you therefore felt that more grafts could be taken from there?

I'm curious because I've done a transplant myself and 1 month post op I also felt my sides looked so thin no more could be taken from there. I'm at 2 months post op now and it looks much better, but that may be because the hair is twice as long.

[Britanium]

Hi, have you got any pics you can post here? Be interested to see you latest HT.

[home1212]

I've seen nothing but bad press on the ARTAS system for FUE. Even Dr. Rahal dropped using it for a manual extraction like Lorenzo does. I reviewed your blog, you went through alot with Dr. Harris with what you probably could have accomplished in a single visit - albeit spread over 2 days - with Dr. Lorenzo. I wish you the very best, and I think you made a wise decision not wasting your donor and going with the best FUE doc out there. Please keep us updated with some progress photos as your results come in. I think you're in for a spectacular result!

[needmoarhair]

Congrats on your procedure with Dr Lorenzo, I had mine with him on the 9th of December. I'll be following your thread, happy growing!

[Spanker]

I think you will get a nice result. That is a very conservative hairline and so you have a very decent amount of grafts for that sized area. Of course, Lorenzo is top notch. Btw, it looks like you have a very minor case of cvg or cutis verticis gyrata, and very minor case, where you have a small Ridge and dimple running posterior to anterior on you head. Not a big deal, mine is much worse.

[Melvin- Admin]

I remember seeing your blog about a year ago, I think it's proof that artas and robotic FUE is not recommended buyer beware.

[myfueblog]

Guys THANK YOU for your answers. I honestly needed some words of support after 2.5 Years of a lot of money that I spent, long time to heal, frustration and the roller coaster feeling of being excited and positive before and immediately after having the first 2 hair transplants to the moment when I realized again about the results.

 

Please keep in mind that even with all the doubts I had about ARTAS before my first HT I decided to do it because I found in my research that Dr. Harris is one of first ARTAS doctors in the world and also the one who is the one responsible to train other doctors with the robot... but at the end the results where way less than mediocre.

 

I also hear the rumor that a lot of doctors who purchased the robot are using it more to hang clothes than HTs!

 

I will try to answer all the good questions you asked me:

 

 

Did you Shed all the HT hairs yet?

Did you loose Any of your native hairs to shockloss?

 

Yes, hair shafts from the last HT are gone except some that I noticed are still in the crown (not growing so I am sure they are grafts) and I am very aggressive at this point massaging my scalp and rubbing the area.

 

I also have shock loss in two parts of my crown. I am going to post today in my blog a new photo of the 1.5 Month crown to show you that. I had a similar shock loss after the second surgery also explained in my blog and all the native hair returned after about 5-6 months.

 

August asked: I must ask how you feel about the sides of your donor area. One month post your second HT you wrote that this area was clearly looking thin and that you would not take more grafts from these parts in future transplants. Yet, grafts were indeed taken from these areas in your last transplant. Had the density on the sides of your head improved significantly when the donor healed and you therefore felt that more grafts could be taken from there?

 

Great question! because I had a huge concern with that too but Dr. Lorenzo is just amazing checking the donor area. He uses a lot of devices to check the caliber, macro cameras to see the scarring and possible grafts, he measure everything! He told me that he wanted to extract just a little bit from that area to even everything and then avoid that area for any future touch up. He assure me that I am not going to see almost any difference and he is correct. Even now 1.5 Months almost full in the ugly duckling face I am on the side very similar compared with 1.5 post op after the 2nd surgery. My back still looks amazing, you cannot see the scalp at all at this point. I will definitely avoid my sides for any future HT touch up if needed.

 

Spanker: Btw, it looks like you have a very minor case of cvg or cutis verticis gyrata, and very minor case, where you have a small Ridge and dimple running posterior to anterior on you head. Not a big deal, mine is much worse.

 

That is true and believe it or not that appeared in my scalp after the 1st surgery with the ARTAS. I had a huge amount of swelling in my face and scalp after that one and I reported seeing the "ridge" or "canyon" as I tried to describe to Dr. Harris. I even went to his office to show that in person and he told me that probably that was caused by the swelling plus sleeping on the side causing the scalp to stretch and then fold with the pressure of my head on the side (if my explanation make sense). The ridge almost disappeared with time afer each surgery. Dr. Lorenzo also mentioned some "fibrosis" in the recipient area from the first 2 surgeries.

[myfueblog]

Hi, have you got any pics you can post here? Be interested to see you latest HT.

 

Hello Johnboy71. The link to the photos is located in my first post.

[myfueblog]

Hello Guys,

 

I am happy to report photos of the progress 2 Months Post Op. with Dr. Lorenzo. I am posting one macro/close up of high quality where I believe that I can see several new sprouts in the area used by Dr. Lorenzo to lower and reinforce my hairline. What do you think? Are they new or miniaturized hairs from my balding process?

 

Any questions? Comments?

 

Photos and update here

[Melvin- Admin]

Id say your result should come out really good, I wouldn't preoccupy myself too much on the crown, remember the crown is a graft black hole, it takes double the amount of grafts to appear dense as the midscalp and hairline do. Can't wait to see your progress, I think I commented on your blog like two years ago.

[myfueblog]

Id say your result should come out really good, I wouldn't preoccupy myself too much on the crown, remember the crown is a graft black hole, it takes double the amount of grafts to appear dense as the midscalp and hairline do. Can't wait to see your progress, I think I commented on your blog like two years ago.

 

Thanks HTsoon. I have been also following your progress and I am very happy for your good results. Your life changed for good in a big way!

 

I can't say the same thing (yet). Yes I know about the black hole thing of the crown but after so many questions to my previous surgeon (Dr. Harris) where I asked so many times on emails and in person if what he recommended (in writing) was going to produce a dramatic coverage and result and he always said yes, that he is being doing HTs for a long time and that he knows what he is doing. Just imagine that for my almost totally bald crown he recommended 500 grafts for normal coverage and 1000 grafts for max coverage. I obviously asked for the 1000 grafts and that gave me a horrible implanted density/results and even with the additional 800 grafts that I had to paid for the second surgery the results were pretty amateur and poor compared with all the results from Dr. Lorenzo in the crown were in 1 or 2 surgeries he can transform a totally bald crown in a fully dense one and that is what I wanted from the beginning and I had the money and donor area for that. I spent the money, time and effort for almost nothing in my first 2 surgeries.

 

If I just believed what a lot of people told me online when I wrote about the number of grafts that Dr. Harris wanted to do (that I was going to need many more surgeries and that was going to produce poor results). I thought that trusting the doctor was the right thing to do : (

[densedream]

Sometimes I wish this website which is supposed to have our best interest in mind, would screen their doctors better and remove them if they are not up to the standards or performing surgeries that are not in the top tier of results. One of these doctors is in the 'coalition' here and the other isn't. Guess which one isn't.

 

I also appreciate when doctors study and present you with the parameters and quality of your donor hair with scientific means. Instead of just looking at it and saying " yeah I can get 3000 out of it" then hitting 3000 grafts on the mark somehow.

 

Also does anyone notice how Dr. Lorenzo 2800 grafts goes and is spread out way more and denser then mot doctors. I've seen many doctor put 3000-4000 in the front third. Or in my case just in the crown(5000)

 

I wish I could afford Dr. Lorenzo. He is the best FUE doctor around.

[myfueblog]

Sometimes I wish this website which is supposed to have our best interest in mind, would screen their doctors better and remove them if they are not up to the standards or performing surgeries that are not in the top tier of results. One of these doctors is in the 'coalition' here and the other isn't. Guess which one isn't.

 

I also appreciate when doctors study and present you with the parameters and quality of your donor hair with scientific means. Instead of just looking at it and saying " yeah I can get 3000 out of it" then hitting 3000 grafts on the mark somehow.

 

Also does anyone notice how Dr. Lorenzo 2800 grafts goes and is spread out way more and denser then mot doctors. I've seen many doctor put 3000-4000 in the front third. Or in my case just in the crown(5000)

 

I wish I could afford Dr. Lorenzo. He is the best FUE doctor around.

 

I agree with you densedream. I believe (but it is just my opinion) that to be part of this type communities like the Hair Restoration Network they have to pay a fee (not sure) but if that is the case then I am sure that Dr. Lorenzo does not need the extra recommendation from extra sources because he already proved over and over with videos (not bad quality photos like other doctors) his results and everybody know who he is.

 

Dr. Harris on the other side: It is VERY HARD if not impossible to find a real patient cases online with awesome results from Dr. Harris. All posted online is from him of patients results after several surgeries and pretty basic quality photos. He is well known in the world for his tool (SAFE System) and pioneer of the ARTAS, he also train other doctors so patients would think (in a very naive way like myself) that he is good as a surgeon when the reality is that his surgeries are extremely low in density, for you to return over and over for more small surgeries and at the end they look pretty amateur compared with guys like Lorenzo, Rahal or Bhatti (most of them ironically trained with Dr. Harris at some point).

[myfueblog]

Hello,

 

I just posted the photos of my 3rd month post op with Dr. Lorenzo.

 

More baby hairs sprouting everywhere (recipient area), good recovery of my donor area (specially in the back) and a small area of shock loss in the crown (donor and native hair) of about 1.5 centimeters.

 

I am super impressed with the way Dr. Lorenzo and his team extracted 2800 grafts without any additional damage to my already damaged donor area from my previous surgery with the Robot and Dr. Harris.

 

You can compare the macro photos from the 2nd and 3rd month that I took of the same area where you can see all the new hairs sprouting in the hairline and also the ones that I noticed 4 weeks ago are getting thicker and growing fast.

 

I appreciate any comments.

 

PHOTOS 3rd Month 2/13/2016

[Melvin- Admin]

What's amazing is your donor now looks better than it did in your first surgery, highly impressive of Dr. Lorenzo, were you able to choose your surgeon? I know he has a partner Dr. Vila.

[myfueblog]

What's amazing is your donor now looks better than it did in your first surgery, highly impressive of Dr. Lorenzo, were you able to choose your surgeon? I know he has a partner Dr. Vila.

 

Hello HTsoon,

 

In my case and for all their patients around mid-late 2015 Dr. Lorenzo was the only one at the clinic because Dr. Ximena Vila was on maternity leave. Not sure if I was lucky with that or having 2 good surgeons taking turns and resting is the best way to go with Dr. Lorenzo.

 

And Yes it is amazing how the donor area is looking. Like I didn't have a 3rd surgery. The punch size he uses is so small compared with the monster of the robot...

Edited February 14, 2016 by myfueblog

[redcut]

This has been a very helpful series of posts myfueblog! Check your mailbox for more questions from me. I'm looking to do something similar.

[myfueblog]

Hello Guys!

 

I just posted the report in my blog of the 4th Month Post Op of the 3rd Surgery (repair Doctor Lorenzo of the previous failed Hair Transplants by Dr. James Harris).

 

So far so good! Lots of compliments at work and crown filling in nicely (I think). Some issues with 3 small areas with shock loss on places where I had pimples but I am hopping they will recover just fine.

 

Next month should be even more exciting.

 

PHOTOS AND FULL REPORT 4th MONTH

 

I appreciate any comments or questions.

[redcut]

I'll be visiting Lorenzo in June. Your answers to these questions can help me plan the event with fewer problems:

 

 

 

• Do you have any tips or suggestions for travel? Duration, drugs, sleep choices? You mentioned staying near the bathroom for quick trips to re-apply treatment.
  
• Any hat you could suggest? Was your skin irritated and difficult to ignore?
  
• Did you simply stay in the hotel when you not being treated? (Room service?)
  
• How did you handle funding it? Did you pay all up front ahead of time or take the last half in when you arrived? I was going to get an account with bank that allowed Foreign Exchange, but it looks like there's no way to minimize whatever rate the Euro is at the time. They only accept Euro, correct?
  
• What was your recovery time after the 1st week and the 2nd week?
  

 

 

I'll re-read your blog to see what I missed the first time around. Thank you so much for any tips or suggestions to make this go smooth.

[myfueblog]

I'll be visiting Lorenzo in June. Your answers to these questions can help me plan the event with fewer problems:

 

 

 

• Do you have any tips or suggestions for travel? Duration, drugs, sleep choices? You mentioned staying near the bathroom for quick trips to re-apply treatment.

• Any hat you could suggest? Was your skin irritated and difficult to ignore?

• Did you simply stay in the hotel when you not being treated? (Room service?)

• How did you handle funding it? Did you pay all up front ahead of time or take the last half in when you arrived? I was going to get an account with bank that allowed Foreign Exchange, but it looks like there's no way to minimize whatever rate the Euro is at the time. They only accept Euro, correct?

• What was your recovery time after the 1st week and the 2nd week?

 

 

I'll re-read your blog to see what I missed the first time around. Thank you so much for any tips or suggestions to make this go smooth.

 

Hello Redcut,

 

 

 

• Do you have any tips or suggestions for travel? Duration, drugs, sleep choices? You mentioned staying near the bathroom for quick trips to re-apply treatment.

 

Because no matter what... I needed to pay my flight to Spain then I bought my ticket to arrive 5 days before my surgery, that way I had some time to visit Madrid and some other cities around. I recommend going to Segovia and Toledo if you have time. For the flight back I reserved my seat just very close to the bathroom and that was the best decision ever because you have to go every 15-30min to spray the saline solution to the recipient area and you don't want to bother everybody asking to move for you to go the bathroom. The flight was almost 9 hours! Dr. Lorenzo will provide you enough saline solution (travel size) for the whole trip plus more when you arrive home. I didn't take any drugs except the pills they give you to relax the day of the surgery.

 

 

• Any hat you could suggest? Was your skin irritated and difficult to ignore?

 

I bought the following hat in Amazon that was also approved by Dr. Lorenzo. He really like it. The nurses will tell you to only use the hats they provide but they are tiny, very uncomfortable and cheap made. The hat I bought include UV Sun Protection and good ventilation all around your head. It is call "UV 50+ Side Snap Talson Sun Bucket Hat" by Juniper. Not uncomfortable at all. I didn't feel any pain or sensation just be careful to remote and put the hat back. I only used the hat to travel and the security in both airports respected the fact that I told them that I had a surgery in my scalp and they never asked me to remove the hat.

 

 

• Did you simply stay in the hotel when you not being treated? (Room service?)

 

Yes, Lorenzo will provide free hotel for the nights of the surgery (or multiple nights if you have several days of surgery like me). Hotel is great and clean. I didn't like the food that much. Kind of expensive so I went to a huge mall very close to the hotel where they have better food. I didn't care about people staring to my head because I will never see them again! The nights before the surgery I rented a cheap but very nice apartment very close to downtown Madrid using the Airbnb website.

 

 

• How did you handle funding it? Did you pay all up front ahead of time or take the last half in when you arrived? I was going to get an account with bank that allowed Foreign Exchange, but it looks like there's no way to minimize whatever rate the Euro is at the time. They only accept Euro, correct?

 

I was able to save what I needed and I had a lot of miles accumulated with American Airlines so the flight ticket was almost free. At least I was able to save some money on hotel and flights after all that I spent on my two previous failed surgeries for nothing.

 

I used Xoom website to transfer the money to Dr. Lorenzo. The service is amazing and they have the best exchange rate possible for an online transfer website. You have to pay a minimum of 50% in cash the day of the surgery and 50% transfer to avoid any extra fees with Dr. Lorenzo. They only accept Euros. Avoid using credit cards (because of the extra international fees they normally charge for paying stuff in other countries).

 

 

• What was your recovery time after the 1st week and the 2nd week?

 

You have to calculate 10 days off of work for any public activity until you can remove the scabs completely. At day 10 you can remove any scabs and touch your donor area with impunity with no risk of damaging the grafts (Dr. Bernstein Study published in my blog). I had no pain or discomfort other than a crazy itching from time to time on both donor and recipient area during the first 2-3 weeks. I had a party at work at day 12 and everybody thought that I just had a buzz hair cut but nothing else. No clue I had a hair transplant. I used DermMatch to decrease the contrast between the balding area with the rest of my hair.

 

I hope that help!

[redcut]

Thank you for the quick response!

 

Good hat recommendation... I've actually been looking for something like this outside of this topic. Was any saline absorbed into the hat?

 

Wow... getting up every 15-20 minutes for a 9 hour flight! It's obviously very important. At what point can someone get some sleep? Or is there a separate procedure for 6-8hrs of sleep? I've heard the aftermath can make it difficult to sleep (head on pillow and such).

 

I'll definitely be conscious of what seat I take.

 

Was your hotel the Hotel Amura?

 

For Xoom... you had to submit additional identity verification to be allowed larger transfer amounts, correct?

 

Your buzzcut observation was exactly what I was thinking. It gives the people around you time to slowly see your change rather than a stark surprise of a full head of hair months later if hidden under a hat.

 

Do you speak Spanish? What was the language barrier like?

 

Excellent idea on using airline miles! That'll easily cut the travel price in half if not more.

 

Thanks again for all your advice

[myfueblog]

Hello Guys,

 

More information in my blog but so far I am extremely happy!

 

I am not using Toppik anymore and all the photos are with flash. When I am indoor the crown is looking much better than the photo.

 

Definitely feeling awful for my decision to have my first 2 surgeries with Dr. Harris (and spending all that big money, taking so much time from work and two years of waiting "results") instead of researching more and checking real results, videos and photos of high density doctors anywhere in the world. As I concluded: I believe that Dr. Harris is a good trainer to other doctors but not a doctor where you will get an amazing high density result. It is almost impossible to find a real patient result where you are amazed by his results. All his results are very conservative and probably after several surgeries of a few grafts based on my experience with him. Very frustrating but at least I decided relatively on time to switch and now I am super happy.

 

Dr. Lorenzo even offered a small touch up if I feel that I want to fully close the density in the crown at the end of the 12 Months Post Op.

 

What do you guys think?

Here you have the comparison between the final result after 2 Surgeries with Dr. James (Jim) Harris(LEFT) vs only 1 surgery with Dr. Lorenzo (RIGHT) and I still have 5 Month to see the final result.

 

[Pete-from-Farjo]

Looks like typically excellent work from Dr. Lorenzo. Congrats.