FUE Live Consultation with Dr Koray Erdogan - 5000 grafts is it too much

[Stig]

Dr. Koray Erdogan MD*Hair Transplant Surgeon in*Istanbul,*Turkey

 

 

Just look at these results.. Dr. Koray always post results here way more consistently that most doctors. I would say more than half haven't even posted a result in the last 6 months.. Yet with Dr. Koray I see once nearly once a week.

 

I have to say I disagree with everyone else here saying's too much. Are those the picture you posted here the only and same ones you sent Dr. Koray to evaluate? Being that I have had almost 9000 grafts and my hair was like your or maybe even better, I don't underestimate the amount of grafts it will take for a dense look. You hair is low density in most areas so it will take a lot of grafts to get the above 50% density so it's not see through. The people saying 2,500 grafts have no idea what they are talking about. I'm sure the Dr. is going to target all of the areas not just the front 1/3rd.

 

What absolute nonsense - I suspect he is using the double the number of grafts necessary to guarantee the result and compensate for the potential lower yield of FUE. Some folks on Dr Feller's FUT vs FUE kept asking how Erdogan is able to consistently produce these stunning results - well I am now questioning whether it because of the number of grafts he throws at it.

[JamesOfMiami]

I think the patient actually went to his office. Do you live in Turkey AW?

 

This is all very interesting. I sent my photos to Erdogan and he declined my surgery. He said I didn't have enough hair. I was in shock because my American doctors told me I was the perfect candidate. So I see now why he said that. He wants extreme results with tons of grafts.

 

I wonder if this is a money thing? Like he's not going to make a decent profit from 2500?

 

Honestly, I'm very happy I landed with Ozyigit.

[Born2Shine]

Dr. Koray Erdogan MD*Hair Transplant Surgeon in*Istanbul,*Turkey

 

I have to say I disagree with everyone else here saying's too much. Are those the picture you posted here the only and same ones you sent Dr. Koray to evaluate? Being that I have had almost 9000 grafts and my hair was like your or maybe even better, I don't underestimate the amount of grafts it will take for a dense look. You hair is low density in most areas so it will take a lot of grafts to get the above 50% density so it's not see through. The people saying 2,500 grafts have no idea what they are talking about. I'm sure the Dr. is going to target all of the areas not just the front 1/3rd.

 

 

I would agree. The hair looks pretty thin throughout. If you want a decent hairline and still look like a diffuse thinner, I think 2500 will do. If you want to appear to be closer to a "head of hair", then I think 5000 is realistic. Think about it. How many hairs is 5000 grafts really?

[AW]

I think the patient actually went to his office. Do you live in Turkey AW?

 

This is all very interesting. I sent my photos to Erdogan and he declined my surgery. He said I didn't have enough hair. I was in shock because my American doctors told me I was the perfect candidate. So I see now why he said that. He wants extreme results with tons of grafts.

 

I wonder if this is a money thing? Like he's not going to make a decent profit from 2500?

 

Honestly, I'm very happy I landed with Ozyigit.

 

 

 

Hey James..i live in lebanon..i flied all the way to istanbul its a 3 hr flight and had a live consultation with the doctor which based upon the reccommendation was given..actually i dont really think its a money thing bc am sure a clinic as such that is consistently occupied with patients is doing lots of money..i think its.more about short term results gaurenteeing good results even in the event of srgery failure..if worst comes to worst and the yiled is at 50 percent this would still be 2500 grafts which would still produce a decent result..i guess this is the main philosophy and this philosophy ofcourse is at the expense of the donor which is scarce and for sure is a big draw back on the mid and long term..in other terms if i go ahead with the 5000 grafts today am very much sure that i will be very happy post the operation..but would i be so 5 or 10 years down the road with no donor buffer left what so ever..

[JamesOfMiami]

Have you considered asking Erdogan to maybe break it up like my surgeon is doing? I will fly back to Istanbul to have another 2500 grafts to complete the entire thing 8 months later. (Total 5500) Plus ask him about platelet therapy. I've read it helps greatly!

[VectorH]

5,000 grafts? That's a number some doctors use to cover up an almost slick bald head. But then again, Dr. Koray is known for over shooting for the number of grafts. IMO I would stray away.

[ASMEDMANUALFUE]

My patients have been in forums from around the world since 2004. I like and respect the idea of forums because everyone is free to write whatever they want to express in their own way. I also do not believe that doctors should be present in these forums and I am fairly new to this one. However, I decided to respond to some comments with explanations in order to prevent misunderstanding and also for educational purposes.

 

I would like to share some wet photos of the same patient. Wet photos under flash makes everyone unhappy, however, there are also necessary to detect miniaturization and to help us predict what will happen in the future. This patient has been taking finasteride for 10 years and had undergone an FUT procedure of 2000 grafts by another doctor in 2010. Most probably, he will be a Norwood 6 in time even under medication. He also desires to cover his frontline because of his previous FUT surgery. His hair loss area is minimum (180 cm2), his average caliber is 60 microns and his average calculated density is 2,2 hair/uf. Even if he decided to have me perform this surgery, 5000 grafts would probably not be enough to correct his problem in the future because for good graft coverage, we require 45 grafts/cm2.

 

No one wants to live life under constant medication, however, there is no perfect technique in hair transplantation that can effectively address Norwood 5 or Norwood 6 baldness with original density. Donor management in FUE is becoming a more important issue everyday due to the potential for increased HT graft numbers. It is for this reason that we welcome our patients 1 day prior to surgery and at that time examine their density, their calculated density, the caliber, the coverage value and the donor capacity manually. These calculations are first made with long hair and are then repeated with shaven hair with the assistance of a computer.

 

In 2015, "Coverage Value" became the new index for determining the minimum follicle number requirements for both donor and recipient areas with acceptable coverage density.

 

I do not perform all extractions and graft placements by myself, but I do exclusively create all placing plans as well as perform incisions. Over the years, we have performed more than 4000 FUE cases using the same system and the same surgical team. Since 2004, more than 1000 of our patient cases have received over 4000 grafts. It is impossible to make every patient perfectly happy due to many factors including the patient's personal expectations, however, as an experienced doctor heavily involved in FUE research and innovation, I, along with my FUE colleagues learn new things and develop new techniques every day.

 

I do not intend to respond to comments here on a continual basis, but on this occasion, I felt that it was necessary.

Thank you for your time.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2015 by ASMEDMANUALFUE

[densedream]

Exactly what I suspected. The pictures on the first page did not show the whole story. The wet photos overhead show clearly what is going on and why 5000 grafts are required. To the people doubting Dr. Koray expertise and graft estimate, looks like you can go back to your hair transplant Dr. armchair. I

 

know for a fact that Dr. Koray is an honest and ethical doctor because I sent him my pictures to possible set up a surgery and he said he couldn't guarantee it and would need to see me in person first because my previous surgery history, If he was just trying to make cash and didn't care he would have told me to come and have surgery. Instead he had my best interest at heart which is rare these days when money is involved.

 

Anyways I'm glad Dr. Koray posted and cleared this up bc it was getting ridiculous everyone doubting a doctor that constantly produces some of the best results on this site, plus at affordable prices.

[Stig]

I'm sorry, it still doesn't make sense to me. If this guy is headed to NW6, then isnt that a reason to be conservative with the donar supply and wait and see the progression? HT is all about the illusion of density under dry conditions, I don't think one should be trying to achieve perfection for a NW6 under wet hair conditions right? The post above flies in the face of everything I have been told by other surgeons - I think Dr Erdogan is a great surgeon and up there with Lorenzo as best in the world when it comes to FUE, but I can see he is way too aggressive. Great news for lower NWs, but surely not good for higher ones.

[Janna]

Thanks Dr. Erdogan for the detailed explanation and for the new pics taken at your clinic. It clarifies better as to why such a big session was recommended.

 

I know you have a beautiful clinic filled with state of the art equipment for evaluating each patient and you're capable of doing mega sessions. I also know you're very forward thinking and willing to share your studies and techniques with other physicians.

[splitting hairs]

Firstly, people don't walk around with wet hair, so whilst it's a useful indicator of miniturisation, it doesn't mean you go placing a ton of grafts there.

 

Secondly, if this patient has aggressive diffuse hair loss, surely that is a reason to be MORE conservative with his donor.

 

Thirdly, transplanting in to native hair, especially miniturised native hair risks significant shock loss, so why take the risk??

 

It would be good to get other clinics opinions on this.

[densedream]

Firstly, people don't walk around with wet hair, so whilst it's a useful indicator of miniturisation, it doesn't mean you go placing a ton of grafts there.

 

Secondly, if this patient has aggressive diffuse hair loss, surely that is a reason to be MORE conservative with his donor.

 

Thirdly, transplanting in to native hair, especially miniturised native hair risks significant shock loss, so why take the risk??

 

It would be good to get other clinics opinions on this.

 

 

Before you go bad mouthing one of the best FUE clinic in the world. I'm implore you to look at their website. I have had surgery by three different doctors and not one was as close to as thorough as Dr. Koray pre op. Go ahead and look at the before and afters and in many cases Dr. Koray plants between existing hair and gets an amazing results. The website is as meticulous as the clinics work. Amazing website, Amazing doctor and staff, and amazing results. I regret not having surgery here to begin with to be honest and feel envy when I see results from people that had less hair than me to start but know of thick mops.

 

Op don't listen to these haters, go with what the doctor recommends and you won't be sorry.

[CJD]

My patients have been in forums from around the world since 2004. I like and respect the idea of forums because everyone is free to write whatever they want to express in their own way. I also do not believe that doctors should be present in these forums and I am fairly new to this one. However, I decided to respond to some comments with explanations in order to prevent misunderstanding and also for educational purposes.

 

I would like to share some wet photos of the same patient. Wet photos under flash makes everyone unhappy, however, there are also necessary to detect miniaturization and to help us predict what will happen in the future. This patient has been taking finasteride for 10 years and had undergone an FUT procedure of 2000 grafts by another doctor in 2010. Most probably, he will be a Norwood 6 in time even under medication. He also desires to cover his frontline because of his previous FUT surgery. His hair loss area is minimum (180 cm2), his average caliber is 60 microns and his average calculated density is 2,2 hair/uf. Even if he decided to have me perform this surgery, 5000 grafts would probably not be enough to correct his problem in the future because for good graft coverage, we require 45 grafts/cm2.

 

No one wants to live life under constant medication, however, there is no perfect technique in hair transplantation that can effectively address Norwood 5 or Norwood 6 baldness with original density. Donor management in FUE is becoming a more important issue everyday due to the potential for increased HT graft numbers. It is for this reason that we welcome our patients 1 day prior to surgery and at that time examine their density, their calculated density, the caliber, the coverage value and the donor capacity manually. These calculations are first made with long hair and are then repeated with shaven hair with the assistance of a computer.

 

In 2015, "Coverage Value" became the new index for determining the minimum follicle number requirements for both donor and recipient areas with acceptable coverage density.

 

I do not perform all extractions and graft placements by myself, but I do exclusively create all placing plans as well as perform incisions. Over the years, we have performed more than 4000 FUE cases using the same system and the same surgical team. Since 2004, more than 1000 of our patient cases have received over 4000 grafts. It is impossible to make every patient perfectly happy due to many factors including the patient's personal expectations, however, as an experienced doctor heavily involved in FUE research and innovation, I, along with my FUE colleagues learn new things and develop new techniques every day.

 

I do not intend to respond to comments here on a continual basis, but on this occasion, I felt that it was necessary.

Thank you for your time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is pretty ironic how you disappeared and never responded to patients I personally know who left your clinic with problems . You also completely ignored a patient leaving them stuck with their purchased plane ticket after you cancelled their surgery date, but you now decide to respond in this forum that asks OTHERS for advice about something you told them ???? You decide to appear only now when some people publicly and rightfully question what you said ? It is about time some people are discussing some ridiculous things you and your clinic have done so others can see them. I think it is great that the truth is being told. I will do my part to make sure all the facts about some of the terrible ways you have treated others are here for people to read so that naive people don't fall victim to your place and its ways.

[Yaz89]

CJD, back up your claims with solid proof and evidence.

Edited October 19, 2015 by Yaz89

[Wwiizzkkiidd24]

Yeah CJD you need to back up your claims you've made with proof before you go pointing your finger.

[Wwiizzkkiidd24]

I have to agree with the grafts estimate made by erdogan he's obviously compensating for future loss which will happen down the road. if you feel that is a bit OTT then go with on other surgeon thats more conservative.

[densedream]

Like the others said... We need actual evidence not just your bad mouthing. This forum workd on actual proof not word of mouth. Dr. Koray has over 50 before and after results that are remarkable and the best in the FUE business, so for you to come here and make your claims with backing it up totally negates anything you say.

[CJD]

First of all, let me say I am not going to argue with people nor be rude. I am not that type of person. I have an issue with the doctor that I have the right to address. I respect that everyone can have their opinions and I am not out to change them. I am now merely responding to what was recently said to me since it was indirectly calling me dishonest. I was not "pointing my finger". I spoke the truth TO Dr. Erdogan about instances which Dr. Erdogan and I both know are the truth. That is what matters. I don't have to convince other people to come forward on this thread to prove anything further even though I can prove some of what I said on my own. The doctor knows that. That is what is important.

 

I will not resort to making attacks against others or name calling like those on this forum that have blind devotion to a doctor they think can do no wrong simply because they had surgery with him or because they represent him . Just because another person on the forum has had a good experience with Dr. Erdogan does not mean that he has not treated some people terribly. Does the fact that some people on this forum claim to have had a good experience with him mean that he is perfect or that he has never done anyone wrong ? I am sure there are some people in this world that would testify to the fact that even some serial killers seemed to be the nicest people they had ever known according to their experiences with them. Does the fact that people who have been treated terribly by Dr. Erdogan do not want to post publicly about their stories mean the experiences did not happen ? Are they required to relive their trauma, shame themselves, and subject themselves to ridicule for their experience to be true ? Really ? I suppose rape victims who do not come forward for similar reasons also were never raped.

 

 

Yaz89, my life is not defined by this forum nor does it revolve around a HT. I have no ties to any doctor like you do. I simply know of bad experiences I am relaying to others and had one that I am entitled to discuss. You previously went out of your way to send me a private message on 10/4/15 after I simply advised someone against going to Dr. Erdogan who was publicly seeking advice. I find that strange. I have never sent a negative PM to anyone because I saw they said something GOOD about DR. Erdogan. Given the fact that you are a past patient of his and apparently have connections to him, I find that suspicious . That makes your opinion biased to say the least. I chose to be nice and did not respond to your private message. I respect that you are allowed to have your opinion and am not out to change it , but I am also allowed to speak the truth about matters of fact some of which I know about first hand. I did not attack you for your opinion, and I should not be attacked for mine nor for stating the truth to another person. My comment at that time was not made to you nor were my comments in this thread. In this thread, they were made to someone ELSE who happens to be the very person directly involved in the matter that is between us. You have no need to intervene. Dr. Erdogan appears to be a grown man in the photos I have seen of him and should not require your assistance in speaking.

 

To answer those that demand "proof or nothing negative ever happened" ..........I actually did contact the forum administrator here about one of the mentioned experiences with Dr. Erdogan at the time it happened in order to complain about him and relayed the story to them. That backs up what I say. I also still have some other communications that prove what I say, but I am not going to post pages of messages here and now in this thread. I respect this site and those that set it up. The people who run it are not here to handle complaints about doctors nor do things about them. It is not their role apparently. That is not what the recommendations of this site are based upon. Sometimes it seems that may be unfortunate , but it is apparently the case.

 

Yaz89, the nature of this site might actually spur me to eventually create an ongoing thread that warns everyone about Dr. Erdogan and outlines some bad things he has done and some very unprofessional treatment some have received from him. It would serve to help with full disclosure in the information seeking process for everyone seeking information on this site about doctors.

 

This is a perfect example of what is wrong with this forum. It is filled with representatives of doctors and many patients who have ties to doctors and who are compensated by them in some fashion, either directly or indirectly. People who come here seeking unbiased information get a skewed version of the truth. Don't people who read these forums think it is strange that the same people are always posting the same old results for many years after they were done and the same people are commenting about certain doctors ? You really need to follow this forum for a very long time to get an understanding of the truth. Don't people think it is strange that there are few negative stories on the forum and that people are quickly attacked when negative things are said about doctors or bad things are brought to light ? Do people actually think Dr. Erdogan has never had a bad result or never treated anyone wrong ? In what fairy tale world do you live where people are perfect ?

 

 

When people say negative things about doctors (that happen to be true) in order to inform others and serve the best interest of the community they are attacked by people who either openly or covertly represent the doctor. A big reason for doctors having official and unofficial representatives on here is to try to smooth over bad situations to the point that they will even tell lies and attack patients in order to make the doctor look better. I have seen them blame patients for bad results, accuse them of having a disease, and all sorts of silly things to shift the blame away from the doctor. It is the nature of what they are here for.

 

 

I am not going to argue with people nor will I criticize patients of Dr. Erdogan. They did not do anything to me before, but they should not negate what I say by the same fact that I am respecting them. I made my truthful statement directly to Dr. Erdogan since he chose to interject himself into this thread which is ironic to me given the fact that he ignored people's multiple important communications in the past. His decision to now chime in here was strange in my opinion since the prospective patient who started the thread obviously had already consulted with the doctor and wanted the opinions of OTHERS regarding what he was told by Dr. Erdogan . Don't you think he would have contacted Dr. Erdogan if he wanted another opinion by him ? He ended up with another explanation and sales pitch from Dr. Erdogan. IMO that could make him more uncomfortable than he was before.

 

Many people have responded to the OP's question that do feel that the number of grafts quoted was outrageous as it does seem to be at this stage of his loss especially when compared to many other patients of Dr. Erdogan. That should not offend anyone since it is their opinion and it was asked for by the OP. Furthermore, if someone had a good experience with Dr. Erdogan, I don't know why they would be bothered by someone bringing up something bad about Dr. Erdogan ? It has no effect on their "good experience". Moreover, does the fact that someone has claimed to have had a good experience with Dr. Erdogan mean that no one has had or can ever have a bad experience with him or that it is not possible he could treat another person terribly ? What kind of logic is that ? That merely goes along with what I have noticed on the forums regarding representatives and "camps" of patients simply promoting one doctor or another at all costs.

 

Since people mentioned "proof" to me and thereby indirectly accused me of not being honest, let's talk about that issue of honesty. Let's discuss the unmentioned "secret" about the fact that Dr. Erdogan does not extract grafts any longer nor does he do the implanting of the grafts as the video he uses to advertise would lead people to believe. This can be confirmed by recent reviews from his own patients on this very site. The problem is that Dr. Erdogan does not overtly disclose this and thereby is committing false advertising. People are led to believe Dr. Erdogan performs the surgery and many only find out during their actual surgical procedure that the techs are the ones who are doing ALL of the extracting and inserting of the grafts. I have heard some patients find this out when Dr. Erdogan disappears to attend to the beginning of another simultaneous surgery. His own patients have mentioned that all Dr. Erdogan does is draw on the hairline and make the incisions, PERIOD. Dr. Erdogan has apparently built his new clinic to enable the maximum number of surgeries in one day to be performed as he performs up to several at ONE time. I have read where many patients who book with him think they are going to be worked on by Dr. Erdogan personally, yet they have no idea about what actually happens nor who will actually work on them. They have no way to select those that work on them ahead of time and many have claimed to be unpleasantly surprised at surgery time. This means their results are partially left to chance and the skills of whatever set of techs they end up with. Some get a good result. Some bad. I wonder why ? If people are OK with that, that is fine. Let's just be honest about what really happens there. While it may happen at some other places also, it does not happen like that everywhere and should not be advertised in a way to mislead anyone.

 

And speaking of "proof"...considering the huge number of surgeries per year done at that clinic based on the number done there every day, I am shocked there are not new , great results put up every day for all to see. Densedream said in this thread, "Dr. Koray has over 50 before and after results that are remarkable....." . Given the fact that Dr. Erdogan's clinic is doing at least a couple to several surgeries a day, Dr. Erdogan should be putting up at least 50 remarkable results a month or every two months if all of his results are so good. It shows that they cherry pick the ones they want to show and that the percentage of great results they produce is not as high as some are led to believe.

 

I represent no one and have nothing to gain or lose. I only want the truth to be out there for all to know. it just so happens I know the truth about some bad things about Dr. Erdogan. I was the victim of one. I gave my opinion when an opinion was asked for and commented to the doctor directly because I found it terrible and ironic he disappeared and completely ignored multiple, important communication attempts in other previous situations but chose to show up in this thread when he was not being contacted but was being publicly discussed. The reason ??? It seems obvious that it is because some people had negative opinions about this graft quote in this case, and that could potentially affect his FUTURE business and his FUTURE income. A past patient with a bad experience that does not come forward publicly (as so many are afraid to do) does not affect his FUTURE income or his reputation. He already has their money. Therefore, he can simply choose not to respond to the people in the manner he did in the situations I have mentioned. After all, he is in business to make money and his actions are driven by it.

 

 

I simply have advised people about what I know as fact and can prove. If you go there and have a problem, you can be stuck once you are gone and left alone like in the situations I mentioned. Dr. Erdogan did not even respond to those people. Sometimes, you are even left alone and completely ignored before that time but after having already spent thousands of dollars on a plane ticket to go there. I know about that situation myself. You are then screwed and left dealing with that problem on your own. I am not even the first person to mention problems like this. No good doctor would ever treat anyone like that. No good person would ever treat anyone like that. That would tell me all I needed to know if I was researching doctors to use. People searching these forums should be aware of this because cases like this are certainly not advertised by their clinic. They have done it before and can do it again. People do not come forward often to speak about bad things happening because they are attacked from all angles as I am, and no amount of proof is ever sufficient for the people who attack them since they have attachments to the doctor. They will defend the doctor no matter what is said and no matter how bad the action of the doctor is.

 

 

I wish everyone the best of luck as always and simply advise everyone to always do more than what you think is sufficient research before selecting a doctor for what can be a very important decision for yourself. it is wise to choose a caring doctor that is close to home when possible and one that will provide good aftercare and communication since it will often be necessary.

[Yaz89]

CJD, you are accusing me of being an paid representative of Dr Erdogan. I have been on this forum for the past 2 years. For an 2 year old poster, my posting rate is low.

 

No I do not represent the doctor paid or unpaid. I live in England whilst Dr Koray resides in Turkey. My working profession has not to do with the hair transplant industry. (I work in local authority government with a small amount of time spend in retail).

 

I have openly supported other doctors on this forum. Many might say I am out-spoken.

 

You say I send you a negative message. How was it negative? I have attached the image and everyone can judge it.

 

Dr Erdogan changed my life. I am deaf and my hair loss was hitting me hard. Add deafness and baldness, with my depression at that time, he changed my life. That is all I will say about him. Pics tell the truth an thousand times more. I will not be responding to you again. And I have edited my previous "attack".

[CJD]

CJD, you are accusing me of being an paid representative of Dr Erdogan. I have been on this forum for the past 2 years. For an 2 year old poster, my posting rate is low.

 

No I do not represent the doctor paid or unpaid. I live in England whilst Dr Koray resides in Turkey. My working profession has not to do with the hair transplant industry. (I work in local authority government with a small amount of time spend in retail).

 

I have openly supported other doctors on this forum. Many might say I am out-spoken.

 

You say I send you a negative message. How was it negative? I have attached the image and everyone can judge it.

 

Dr Erdogan changed my life. I am deaf and my hair loss was hitting me hard. Add deafness and baldness, with my depression at that time, he changed my life. That is all I will say about him. Pics tell the truth an thousand times more. I will not be responding to you again. And I have edited my previous "attack".

 

 

Thank you for editing your message. Let's be clear for the record that you edited out the name calling that was directed at me. I stated in my previous post that I was not going to start arguing since I respect everyone's right to their opinion. I will therefore not do that, but I will simply answer you this time because you said some things that are not true.

 

I obviously spoke in general terms in many instances during my last post. I never said that you worked at the doctor's office anywhere, so your location is not relevant. I said you have "connections" to the doctor. That is obviously correct since you claim to be a patient of his who is very outspoken. To your other statement about me saying that you sent me a negative message, my previous post has not been edited in any way. I obviously did not say that either. I said that "I" have never sent anyone a negative message upon reading that they had something good to say about Dr. Erdogan. I contrasted that with the fact that you went out of your way at the referenced time to send me a PM simply because I replied to someone ELSE asking for advice in a way that clearly expressed a different opinion than you hold. It is clear you are outspoken about opinions I stated you have the right to have. That is OK. Contacting me about those by PM is unnecessary. I considered it provocative. It was clear to me that was the case which I stated is why I did not respond to you. After all, that has now been confirmed since you have later attacked me here in this thread at a time when I also did not communicate with you nor quote you before now.

 

Thank you again for editing your post, and I wish you the best of luck in the future with everything including your results that you stated you are are happy with. I think it is good that the HT helped you ; however, it really has nothing to do with my problem with Dr. Erdogan. I think you should realize that and be able to understand it.

[Yaz89]

Thank you for editing your message. Let's be clear for the record that you edited out the name calling that was directed at me. I stated in my previous post that I was not going to start arguing since I respect everyone's right to their opinion. I will therefore not do that, but I will simply answer you this time because you said some things that are not true.

 

I obviously spoke in general terms in many instances during my last post. I never said that you worked at the doctor's office anywhere, so your location is not relevant. I said you have "connections" to the doctor. That is obviously correct since you claim to be a patient of his who is very outspoken. To your other statement about me saying that you sent me a negative message, my previous post has not been edited in any way. I obviously did not say that either. I said that "I" have never sent anyone a negative message upon reading that they had something good to say about Dr. Erdogan. I contrasted that with the fact that you went out of your way at the referenced time to send me a PM simply because I replied to someone ELSE asking for advice in a way that clearly expressed a different opinion than you hold. It is clear you are outspoken about opinions I stated you have the right to have. That is OK. Contacting me about those by PM is unnecessary. I considered it provocative. It was clear to me that was the case which I stated is why I did not respond to you. After all, that has now been confirmed since you have later attacked me here in this thread at a time when I also did not communicate with you nor quote you before now.

 

Thank you again for editing your post, and I wish you the best of luck in the future with everything including your results that you stated you are are happy with. I think it is good that the HT helped you ; however, it really has nothing to do with my problem with Dr. Erdogan. I think you should realize that and be able to understand it.

 

Thank you for the detailed reply. I only edited my post because the name calling was written when I was angry. I put my hands up and apologise. Yes I wrote you are "key-board warrior" and I have nothing to hide. Let it be known to other users that Yaz wrote you are keyboard warrior; yes I did. I edited my post as it is better to speak in a calm and collected manner.

 

Yes you was responding to someone who was asking advice about Dr Koray. But may I ask why you have been mentioning Dr Koray in other threads where he is not even relevant? Some examples of your posting:

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/174564-4065-grafts-dr-hakan-doganay-australia-turkey-post2448015.html#post2448015

 

You wrote, Turkey is getting a lot of patients, especially Dr. Erdogan in his large clinic which is like a mill and floods the boards with advertising and posts. I can tell people horror stories about people I know who went there and got bad results . Thereafter, they were completely ignored by the clinic and doctor and all communications were ignored. Some tried for months and longer to get through. I warn people to save the extra money and find a doc elsewhere. I could actually see in several cases where Dr. Erdogan has taken hair out of the area traditionally seen to be the safe zone. Not only that, but he has done 10000 grafts on some young people and many HT's on young people using very low hairlines for when he can have no idea about their future loss pattern nor does he seem to care. Asmed took the money under the table from those I know very quickly when they arrived . Once they left they were on their own .... left to deal their problems all alone with no help. Sure they were treated great like anyone would be who was about to give them thousands in cash. Once they left, it was like they didn't exist anymore. Since they paid in cash, there is probably no longer any record of them being at that place...LOL.....

 

This patient did not even have his transplant with Dr Koray, so why the Koray bashing here?

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/180953-fue-hairline-repair-how-dense-can-i-expect-post2448122.html#post2448122

 

This patient asked about repairing his hair line with FUE and he did not even mention going to Dr Koray until you brought up Dr Koray's name. Infact, he had been in touch with Dr Dogany.

 

Your posting: I would definitely recommend not going to Dr. Erdogan despite him flooding the boards here. I can personally tell you some terrible stories about some results from several patients who went there and how awful they have been treated post op . Best of luck to you with whatever you decide !

 

Why the Koray bashing here when the would-be patient has not even mentioned Dr Koray's name until you brought it?

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/181266-warning-if-considering-dr-hakan-doganay-read-first.html

 

This patient has had a negative experience with Dr Dogany and once again you mentioning Dr Koray!

 

Your posting: I know of some terrible treatment rendered by Dr. Erdogan to several people yet one would think he has an unblemished record by looking on this site

 

I understand you have an agenda with Dr Koray. But without posting valid evidence, your claims are invalid. You have posted 29 times on this forum and most of them have been against Dr Koray.

 

You should really open a new thread with valid evidence. Oh, I also support and admire many other doctors on these forums. And for my second transplant, I am not even going to Dr Koray.

 

Good luck in your agenda.

[ersko72]

Hi CJD,

 

You have no reason to lie about your communication with disappointed patients. I don't doubt you. You have every right to share information you might have to benefit others.

 

I did however want to jump in an offer some balance. Partly in reaction to your forum comments and our private PMs a few weeks ago, in advance of my 8 December surgery at Asmed I private messaged every past patient I could find on here. I was particularly keen to hear back form patients who had started threads that then went quiet several months later. I contacted 10 patients, and I've heard back from all but one. My PMs even prompted several patients to jump back on the forum and provide a long awaited status update!

 

Amongst the replies there was indeed one disappointed patient who had chosen not to update this thread. His yield was poor and he was critical of the clinic's commercial interest over patient outcomes. The remainder were positive, even glowing. From this I assessed, not matter the surgeon, I am indeed taking a gamble with a HT with Erdogan (or any surgeon) and I'll be going in with realistic expectations. Fingers crossed!

 

Ersko

[ersko72]

Hi CJD,

 

You have no reason to lie about your communication with disappointed patients. I don't doubt you. You have every right to share information you might have to benefit others.

 

I did however want to jump in an offer some balance. Partly in reaction to your forum comments and our private PMs a few weeks ago, in advance of my 8 December surgery at Asmed I private messaged every past patient I could find on here. I was particularly keen to hear back form patients who had started threads that then went quiet several months later. I contacted 10 patients, and I've heard back from all but one. My PMs even prompted several patients to jump back on the forum and provide a long awaited status update!

 

Amongst the replies there was indeed one disappointed patient who had chosen not to update this thread. His yield was poor and he was critical of the clinic's commercial interest over patient outcomes. The remainder were positive, even glowing. From this I assessed, not matter the surgeon, I am indeed taking a gamble with a HT with Erdogan (or any surgeon) and I'll be going in with realistic expectations. Fingers crossed!

 

Ersko

[CJD]

Hi CJD,

 

You have no reason to lie about your communication with disappointed patients. I don't doubt you. You have every right to share information you might have to benefit others.

 

I did however want to jump in an offer some balance. Partly in reaction to your forum comments and our private PMs a few weeks ago, in advance of my 8 December surgery at Asmed I private messaged every past patient I could find on here. I was particularly keen to hear back form patients who had started threads that then went quiet several months later. I contacted 10 patients, and I've heard back from all but one. My PMs even prompted several patients to jump back on the forum and provide a long awaited status update!

 

Amongst the replies there was indeed one disappointed patient who had chosen not to update this thread. His yield was poor and he was critical of the clinic's commercial interest over patient outcomes. The remainder were positive, even glowing. From this I assessed, not matter the surgeon, I am indeed taking a gamble with a HT with Erdogan (or any surgeon) and I'll be going in with realistic expectations. Fingers crossed!

 

Ersko

 

 

I don't understand the need for this post to be directed at me ? it was also posted twice. This is not my thread. I posted in response to an opinion that was wanted and gave my opinion. I have since had comments directed at me. Your post actually sounds like an attempt at an advertisement since you have already been booked with Erdogan for quite some time based on your posts. Otherwise, I see no reason it does not belong sent as a PM ???

 

Since you directed the message to me, I will play along but will not continue to comment. I comment on truthful information regarding my experience. Understand I am not on this forum to advertise, argue, nor change opinions. I let what I say and the respectful and truthful manner in which I say it speak for itself. I have nothing at stake. I do believe in respecting others' experiences though. I cannot fathom why anyone feels the need to reach out to someone like myself who has had a bad experience with a doctor in order to try to spin information like it is supposed to change my mind about my experience. It defies the normal reaction an independent person with nothing at stake would have. Before I was booked with Dr. Erdogan and had a bad experience with him, I never contacted people who wrote about negative things surrounding him and tried to contradict them. Why would I have ? A person's negative experience and feelings should not be threatening to anyone who who has no stake in a situation.

 

You have been booked with Erdogan for a while, yet you are doing research on him well after booking with him and so close to you surgery date ??? That either makes you doubting your decision or just advertising. I thankfully learned a lot about many bad things surrounding him and the HT business from my bad experience with Dr. Erdogan . I only want to make the information known to others in order to help others avoid problems I had and bad things I became aware of. If people do not like that because it ruins their dream that was formed by an advertising campaign, I cannot help what the facts are. I continue to read about and learn about people who "wish" they had learned more before making the decision they did.

 

I am not critical of patients or people on this forum. I have made it clear that I have a problem with Dr Erdogan regarding the way I was treated by him in the past. There is certainly no need for you to make me aware of Dr. Erdogan's "commercial interest". After all, Dr. Erdogan pays a fee every month to this site to be on here and clearly has his business set up in a way to maximize profit over patient care. He has removed himself from surgical duties that he used to perform and handed them over to technicians so that more than one customer can be worked on at the same time. I do find it very strange that you would feel the need to interject yourself into my personal experience I had with a doctor and make a statement to "balance" that (as you put it). Why would an independent person who has no stake in anything feel a need to "balance" anything ? You have not felt the need to balance anything when I have commented about any other doctors on these forums. I directly addressed Dr. Erdogan here. I also still have the original communications that document my experience. I will be making a thread in the future when I have the time to do so, but it is not urgent for me to do so. This forum is not my life. Saying that you can somehow "balance" the negative aspects of my bad experience by attempting to say something that opposes it is disrespectful ;however, it is the norm when I have dealt with Erdogan.

 

There are obvious and inherent problems with your advertisement you must be aware of. They are commonly made by people doing research.You stated you reached 9 patients of Dr. Erdogan. If you truly reached nine actual patients, that is not a statistically relevant sample in a clinic that is run like a mill. By their own admission and by the documentation of other patients on here , the techs do multiple surgeries a day and also simultaneous surgeries since Dr. Erdogan only draws hairlines and makes incisions. After all, people who go there are basically booking surgeries with techs rather than a doctor. Their results threads should actually read, " My surgery with Dr. Erdogan's techs". I don't know all of the holidays in that part of the world . In the USA, 251 is a reasonable average number of business days in a year (depending on many variables). When using that number, Dr. Erdogan would be performing 502 surgeries a year if he only did 2 surgeries a day and 753 surgeries a year if he did 3 surgeries a day, yet you said you contacted 9 patients to decide his patient satisfaction rate ? Do you not see the problem with that ? Nine patients is not statistically significant enough to determine anything. Moreover, you solely determined who patients are by those that previously posted their results on this site and those that replied to you. Do you not think that there are patients on this site who have been to him who have not documented their cases ? Most people who have bad experiences do not come forward and do not want to shame themselves by posting their photos online. Also, many patients that post on this site are compensated to document their cases in a positive way. Clinics are also often known to act as patients and portray themselves as patients. Don't you find it strange that Dr. Erdogan's clinic performs such a large number of surgeries yet shows such a small number of documented results in comparison ? With such a large number of customers, they should be posting new results every day. Naive people think there are so many great , documented, public results from him until they realize how many surgeries are done every day there. There are so few results posted relative to the total number of surgeries they perform that they have no possible way to make the claims they do about their success rates.

 

 

I think you have ignored statements I have made. I have made it clear that I have a problem with the fact Dr. Erdogan has ignored and cut off communications with not only other patients in the past when a problem has arisen, but also with me personally . No one has to argue about that being terrible, needs to calculate any percentages, nor has to debate about whether it will get better in 12 months. I don't need to contact other people to find out what they think. Doing that to even one person is completely unacceptable and shows a "doctor" with an uncaring nature who has the capability to be that way to anyone. It defies the principles of medicine and is extremely unprofessional. If you wish to move forward with someone who has displayed that type of character, lack of integrity, and the ability to not resolve a problem a patient, it is absolutely your right. I am not here to try to change your mind. I am simply speaking from my experience, but you have said you have no experience to speak of with Dr. Erdogan yet.

 

I am not able to comprehend putting myself in your position when making your last post. I have a reason to say something based on my experience with Dr. Erdogan and the loss I incurred because of him. You have never lost anything due to him nor had any type of result or experience with him. What in the world can you possibly even say about him at this point that is of any relevance to anyone, much less me, to offer "balance " ? Are you going to fix my problem ? Or are you only saying he has been gracious so far in offering to accept your money ? Are you serious for making such a comment ? This is one post/advertisement that makes itself look ridiculous.

 

 

I do still genuinely wish you the best of luck if you are actually having surgery there. You will probably be offered compensation to post a positive story if you have not already been offered it. There is no need to keep this going like it is some type of argument. There is also certainly no need for you to have to speak for someone who by all accounts and photos is clearly a grown man.

 

Best of luck with your future experiences !

[ProspectivePatient]

I've found CJD's comments and arguments to be logically sound. Maybe that's because I don't regard doctors as gods who always do the right thing (and no, let's not debate the existence of god(s)). Anyway, ultimately it's the patients who are responsible for their decision to go to this doctor instead of that doctor. But people, please think critically and decide for yourself. IMHO, a doctor who only draws hairline and does incision is not worthy of his title. Heck, I might be able to do that myself without going to medical school, with minimal training. If I am to pick a doctor to go to, then Erdogan is not the guy. Good luck though !!