CJD

Thanks..no worries. I can't continue to reply, but I will answer you briefly. My post was simply informative in nature. I am not here to debate with anyone or change minds. I can only provide information as I have also done by giving good, general advice in other threads. Only you can make your decision and live with it. I have already stated that I will be making a thread at some point that documents my experience in detail with many communications. It is too difficult to elaborate partially in one place and then partially in another. Doesn't the fact that I addressed him in this thread say anything to you ? People should be aware there are many people who have had bad experiences/results with Erdogan on this site. Maybe more will come forward in the future to reflect the honest and informative platform this site claims to exist upon but seems to often fall short of. It seems you have been told similar things by other people already. Hopefully , you will not find out first hand. I wish you best of luck though !

This thread sure has taken off ! It should be a sticky as it contains examples of so much that is wrong with the HT process, some surgeons, forums, and the way people often seem to be treated for bringing up their bad experiences in an effort to help others. It also sheds light on the fact that results widely vary and those often posted for advertising purposes are far from what the average results actually are. There are so many unspoken "secrets" about a HT procedure and bad things about some of the people who perform them that we need a separate section of the forums for that so they aren't lost in other posts nor end up at the back end of other sections. Before seeing this thread, I had already concluded that Turkey is not the magic HT oasis people are often led to believe. In addition to my terrible experience with Dr. Erdogan that I will hopefully soon have time to document in its own thread, I have had conversations with others who have also had terrible experiences with him and other surgeons in Turkey. They all regret having ever considered going to Turkey to begin with. It sure seems like Paleo was ill-advised regarding his procedure. I would like to comment AT LENGTH on things I have learned since my bad experience and about things I have noticed in order to help prevent newcomers from ending up in a bad situation or falling victim to bad "doctors". They apply to Paleo's situation in many ways. While I am respectful of others' opinions, their own experiences, and right to do as they choose, my personal opinion about HT's has changed after my bad experience and after witnessing some of the mistreatment of others who have had them. I am aware some people have claimed to have gotten good results from HT's using some surgeons in Turkey. But.... people are often "sold" by the advertising the various doctors do and by the support they "appear" to have by people who are often compensated by the "doctors" in some form or fashion to portray them in a good light. Now it even appears that there are fake accounts some "doctors" use to push themselves. I was initially surprised at how often people are attacked for discussing bad experiences with certain doctors or for commenting about them in a negative way. it has become the norm. There should be no reason why an independent person would desire to attack someone who is describing their bad experience with a doctor unless they have a stake in the situation. Think about it. It is just not a normal reaction. Although some things I mention will be obvious to people who have been here a while, someone fresh to this forum with a desire to have every possible lost hair back can often see things with a different perspective. They may not have the knowledge to understand the many problems associated with the HT process , especially if poor decisions are made or luck just isn't on their side. The truth is that some people are just not good candidates for a HT, much less a FUE, and that seems to be overlooked or not even considered in Turkey often. To give just one example, I continually see stories of people who went to Erdogan who were in their early twenties ( if that ). Many genuine, reputable doctors would not even speak to someone about a HT at that age. I also see people who are obviously headed for a high Norwood scale classification getting densely packed, extremely low hairlines there. It might make them feel good initially, but it makes no sense long term. I think that might be one reason so many patients who start threads seem to disappear before their results become clear and why it is difficult, if not impossible, to do a search that results in finding people many years down the road who are satisfied with their HT's. If having a successful result was easy to obtain and had everything to do with money, why are there so many cases of failed HT's in celebrities ? So many of them wear hair pieces for a reason. People forget that hair transplantation is surgery, although it is somehow on the fringes of medicine in an area that seems unregulated and leaves openings for people who have no business performing it to be doing it. When going abroad, it only makes it even more difficult to know the truth about who you are going to and the things they may have previously done or be associated with. It can set anyone up to be a victim. That is what this forum is supposed to help protect against. People have virtually no recourse abroad, even when they are severely mistreated. The clinics abroad are smart enough to know this, and you can bet that they are betting on you not coming back to confront them once you leave. Often patients with bad experiences and bad results will not even go back for free. Who would ? Would you take your car right back to a mechanic you paid to fix it if they did poor work ? Rather than offering patients a refund, patients with bad results/experiences will often be offered a free second surgery. That is effectively holding them hostage by forcing them to go back in order to get their "refund". It is even often offered on the condition they remove negative comments or promise to post positive comments. Any time a doctor tries to see more patients in the same amount of time, the quality of care provided and the attention given to each patient will suffer. It is one reason that the quality of health care is currently going down the tubes in the USA. The most often mentioned "doctors" in Turkey on this site perform multiple surgeries at a time or at least more than one in a day with surgeries often overlapping. They are like mills. This forces the "doctors" to use mostly techs to perform nearly the entire HT process in some instances. The title of some of these results threads should actually be......... " My surgery with Dr. so and so's technicians whose names and qualifications I do not know ". I am not knocking the techs, but there are reasons a real surgeon is required to have the long education and training that they are. In my opinion, technicians should be helping prepare the surgery and assisting the doctor by helping THE SURGEON to perform the surgery. I feel no one but the doctor should be removing grafts from the patient or putting grafts back into them if the surgeon they are with is to be considered a top level surgeon, especially when the "doctor" is out of the room. FUE obviously places more of a demand on a doctor's time, but it is not impossible for the surgery steps to be performed by the doctor. This is still done by top doctors. There are still ways to easily minimize the time the grafts will be outside of the body if the doctor performs the surgical steps himself. The only thing that makes it impossible is when doctors wish to perform multiple surgeries at one time or schedule more patients. As a result, the need for techs to do the job of a surgeon is fueled by greed and not by the quality of care for the patient. There is a reason these places in Turkey are cheaper. Price should not guide one's decision on a surgeon when it is low nor bolster a surgeon's reputation even if it is high. Can you imagine a plastic surgeon in the USA performing multiple breast implant surgeries at one time in a similar mill type fashion ?? Can you imagine them taking a woman in for surgery and only drawing lines on her before making none, half, or even all of the incisions before leaving ? Then they allow the techs to make the aesthetic decisions , place the implants in, and finish up the surgery while the doctor goes to START another simultaneous surgery. What kind of terrible results do you think people would end up with and how many lawsuits would there be ? That is basically what is being done in most of these clinics in Turkey (i.e. Dr. Erdogan, etc.) and is somehow allowed to become the norm. The surgeon is leaving the room and is not even there to watch at times. These doctors should not be allowed to advertise in a way that implies or even makes it appear as if they are performing the surgery. They only sometimes have fine print in some obscure location to inform people of this minor detail. it is misleading at best, and it has set up so many patients for failure in the past. Some patients only become aware of this fact at surgery time. Would anyone want a dental assistant filling a cavity or performing a root canal ? Why would you want a tech performing a HT that has such an visible outcome ? Additionally, many of the cherry - picked "good" results that are posted by surgeons and their patients do not contain full disclosure nor tell the whole story. By the fact that many of these places in Turkey can perform several surgeries a day, they are performing tons of surgeries a year. The minimal amount of good results advertised , including those posted on these forums by clinics and their patients, does not even begin to equal a large enough percentage of their patients to allow them to claim the high success rates that they do. They should be posting new results every day at that rate. What is their reason for not posting a sufficient amount ? Will they blame it on the patient's privacy ? That is garbage. Then why are there all the demands for patients such as the OP and those with bad experiences for "proof to no end" or it did not happen ? They can't have it both ways. Newcomers should be aware of the potential for false advertising, gimmicks, and guarantees that are impossible to make that contain fine print just as you would be in any other industry or business. Think about other businesses. If you see a car ad that claims $0 down and 0% financing , do you think that dealer is nice, honest, and just wants you to have a car at a cheap price ? Do you automatically think there is more to it than meets the eye ? When you see an ad by a car dealer claiming they will finance anyone regardless of their credit and financial history, do you believe that they are kindhearted, understanding , and that your price will still be what it would normally be ? They are tactics to get you in the door and make money that do not disclose all the details. Do you buy a house and sign a contract when you know you can barely make payment number one because a company convinced you to let your guard down somehow ? This type of predatory behavior is also what goes on with many surgeons and clinics in the hair transplant industry. Just because someone has "Dr." in front of their name does not mean they have a halo over their head. Doctors are people. There are some bad people in this world . Therefore, there are some bad doctors just like there are dishonest lawyers, police officers, and all other types of professionals. In medicine , good doctors do not need to advertise in strange ways nor use gimmicks. They don' t need to have representatives to drum up business for them nor get a clan of people to secretly advertise for them while compensating them in some way for doing so. This applies to other good professionals too. People seem to demand so much from patients regarding "proof" and pictures when claims are made . The OP seems to have agreed to do everything that has been asked of him and more. Where are all the pictures and videos of the surgeons' results from all the 500 and more surgeries some are performing a year to prove their results are without fraud or deception ? It is a two way street. It is disappointing how the OP has been attacked by some and how it seems the people in charge of the forum try to find a way to discredit him instead of actually listening to what he is saying . That seems to be the norm here based on the times I have seen people come forward to talk about bad experiences . It only discourages people from being truthful. Why is the word of the "doctor" being taken at face value ? They apparently did not even state the correct date of Paleo's surgery and have apparently supplied other erroneous data / information to support their side of the story . After doing that, they just say, " I made a mistake ". All is then forgiven and their credibility is considered to be 100 % while Paleo's word about his encounter and what he was or wasn't told is apparently not important nor taken at face value ? What motive is there for Paleo to lie ? I bet he would not go back for free. If so, he has nothing to gain. People can argue all they want to about Paleo's results and how they will turn out. I hope they improve and turn out OK, but focusing too much on photos and the result overlooks important issues surrounding his experience, the things he was told, and the advice he was and was not given in order to get him to take the plunge. When this is combined with the history of the "doctor" on a previously mentioned international forum and some other recent claims of dishonesty made against him on this site, that is troubling. The "doctor" can't have it both ways. Either the OP is a patient under the care of a real doctor who he can completely trust or he is not. The care of a doctor is supposed to be able to be relied upon in addition to the information they provide. Is it that patients are supposed to half trust "recommended" doctors or believe only half of what they say ? The patient can't be blamed for the dishonesty of a "doctor". The patient can't be required to be his own doctor while he endures the process and also documents every conversation he has with a video made using a secret recording device for proof. That is just not the way people live their lives nor the way real situations unfold. A reputable doctor most likely would not have even performed the surgery on Paleo under the circumstances at that time . We can't fault the patient for wanting hair even if his research could have turned up problems with this doctor. So could the research of this forum that they supposedly did when deciding on recommending this doctor ! It seems like good advice for people to do a lot MORE research than they think is necessary before getting a HT . After seeing this thread, it might be wise to see more than one doctor in person or even delay a HT :confused:. Rather than saying that you get what you pay for, I think people should trust themselves when something does not seem right and ask questions to themselves when things just seem too good to be true. There is nothing wrong with waiting longer to do something. It seems that the forum brass should start treating some aspects of patient complaints in a better way. Otherwise, its credibility will always be in question and being "recommended" will not mean much. I am not here to argue nor attack anyone in any way. I don't want to discourage someone who is hell bent on getting a HT if that is your thing that you feel you must do. I am just saying watch out ! I wish the best for everyone on all sides of the issues. I am simply posting information for people to see in the future because I hate seeing things happen to people that could be prevented. I thank all the honest people for being that way on this forum and appreciate this forum for being here. I do realize that it would be very difficult for the administrators to handle complaints all day. Maybe they should simply refrain from commenting in certain ways instead of siding with the doctor all the time when it is obvious there are problems with much of the treatment people receive. Treatment encompasses more than just the results and photos. One cannot forget that. Take this hypothetical situation into account.... Someone could perform a FUE on a patient, take every graft from outside the "safe" zone, and provide them with the completely restored hairline of a 16 year old. The before and after photos would look amazing. The healing would be perfect. All measurements would pan out. Everything could look like a dream. I have actually seen a documentation done on this site in which at least one patient was not supplied pictures of their donor area after surgery and was therefore unable to include that. The pics in this hypothetical situation would be advertised everywhere while the patient would also be thrilled. The unseen problem would be that his family consists entirely of the highest of Norwood numbers, and all of his new hair is going to come out quickly since it came from an "unsafe" place. Despite this, it would appear from posted photos to be a perfect result and would apparently meet all the proof necessary that this forum often requires to confirm that. Moreover, If the patient was told beforehand that all the hair would be taken from a "safe" zone and guaranteed that it could never fall out , which would be worse ? The bad result the patient would end up with or the fact that the patient was lied to before the surgery by being promised something that could not be promised to them ? Some would argue the result. I would say the lie the patient was told to get him to do the surgery because they may never have had it done had they known the truth. A doctor's reputation and a patient's experience cannot only be based on photos. There is nothing in a photo I have seen to this date that can actually prove a result nor show the pretense under which a surgery occurred. A doctor's honesty, integrity, behavior, actions, and character are also important. It appears that the recommendation of this site and reputation of these doctors is solely based on photographs at a certain point in time that honestly cannot "prove" a result. It seems a "recommendation" is all about a doctor just knowing that they are supposed to take a graft from one area and put it in another. The recommendation of this site appears to have complete disregard for any care prior to or after the surgery. It apparently has nothing to do with what the patient is told or the honesty of the "doctor". Patients could be lied to, cheated, abandoned , treated unprofessionally or have things done to them that would normally be considered highly unprofessional (at best) and it does nothing to the status of the doctor in the eyes of this site ? It would also appear to not prevent a doctor being considered for recommendation from being "recommended". That is very troubling and does not help those that come here to seek information. The problems I see in Paleo's case are not only with the results if they don't turn out well. Even if they turn out better with time, he was not treated properly. Paleo should not have to be forced to deal with a bad outcome if he was not told the truth and his future situation was not considered in his overall plan. It appears he was promised the moon and delivered the sky and probably should not have done it to begin with. I hope his situation improves for him and turns out OK. Paleo , I wish you and everyone else the best of luck with everything !

I don't understand the need for this post to be directed at me ? it was also posted twice. This is not my thread. I posted in response to an opinion that was wanted and gave my opinion. I have since had comments directed at me. Your post actually sounds like an attempt at an advertisement since you have already been booked with Erdogan for quite some time based on your posts. Otherwise, I see no reason it does not belong sent as a PM ??? Since you directed the message to me, I will play along but will not continue to comment. I comment on truthful information regarding my experience. Understand I am not on this forum to advertise, argue, nor change opinions. I let what I say and the respectful and truthful manner in which I say it speak for itself. I have nothing at stake. I do believe in respecting others' experiences though. I cannot fathom why anyone feels the need to reach out to someone like myself who has had a bad experience with a doctor in order to try to spin information like it is supposed to change my mind about my experience. It defies the normal reaction an independent person with nothing at stake would have. Before I was booked with Dr. Erdogan and had a bad experience with him, I never contacted people who wrote about negative things surrounding him and tried to contradict them. Why would I have ? A person's negative experience and feelings should not be threatening to anyone who who has no stake in a situation. You have been booked with Erdogan for a while, yet you are doing research on him well after booking with him and so close to you surgery date ??? That either makes you doubting your decision or just advertising. I thankfully learned a lot about many bad things surrounding him and the HT business from my bad experience with Dr. Erdogan . I only want to make the information known to others in order to help others avoid problems I had and bad things I became aware of. If people do not like that because it ruins their dream that was formed by an advertising campaign, I cannot help what the facts are. I continue to read about and learn about people who "wish" they had learned more before making the decision they did. I am not critical of patients or people on this forum. I have made it clear that I have a problem with Dr Erdogan regarding the way I was treated by him in the past. There is certainly no need for you to make me aware of Dr. Erdogan's "commercial interest". After all, Dr. Erdogan pays a fee every month to this site to be on here and clearly has his business set up in a way to maximize profit over patient care. He has removed himself from surgical duties that he used to perform and handed them over to technicians so that more than one customer can be worked on at the same time. I do find it very strange that you would feel the need to interject yourself into my personal experience I had with a doctor and make a statement to "balance" that (as you put it). Why would an independent person who has no stake in anything feel a need to "balance" anything ? You have not felt the need to balance anything when I have commented about any other doctors on these forums. I directly addressed Dr. Erdogan here. I also still have the original communications that document my experience. I will be making a thread in the future when I have the time to do so, but it is not urgent for me to do so. This forum is not my life. Saying that you can somehow "balance" the negative aspects of my bad experience by attempting to say something that opposes it is disrespectful ;however, it is the norm when I have dealt with Erdogan. There are obvious and inherent problems with your advertisement you must be aware of. They are commonly made by people doing research.You stated you reached 9 patients of Dr. Erdogan. If you truly reached nine actual patients, that is not a statistically relevant sample in a clinic that is run like a mill. By their own admission and by the documentation of other patients on here , the techs do multiple surgeries a day and also simultaneous surgeries since Dr. Erdogan only draws hairlines and makes incisions. After all, people who go there are basically booking surgeries with techs rather than a doctor. Their results threads should actually read, " My surgery with Dr. Erdogan's techs". I don't know all of the holidays in that part of the world . In the USA, 251 is a reasonable average number of business days in a year (depending on many variables). When using that number, Dr. Erdogan would be performing 502 surgeries a year if he only did 2 surgeries a day and 753 surgeries a year if he did 3 surgeries a day, yet you said you contacted 9 patients to decide his patient satisfaction rate ? Do you not see the problem with that ? Nine patients is not statistically significant enough to determine anything. Moreover, you solely determined who patients are by those that previously posted their results on this site and those that replied to you. Do you not think that there are patients on this site who have been to him who have not documented their cases ? Most people who have bad experiences do not come forward and do not want to shame themselves by posting their photos online. Also, many patients that post on this site are compensated to document their cases in a positive way. Clinics are also often known to act as patients and portray themselves as patients. Don't you find it strange that Dr. Erdogan's clinic performs such a large number of surgeries yet shows such a small number of documented results in comparison ? With such a large number of customers, they should be posting new results every day. Naive people think there are so many great , documented, public results from him until they realize how many surgeries are done every day there. There are so few results posted relative to the total number of surgeries they perform that they have no possible way to make the claims they do about their success rates. I think you have ignored statements I have made. I have made it clear that I have a problem with the fact Dr. Erdogan has ignored and cut off communications with not only other patients in the past when a problem has arisen, but also with me personally . No one has to argue about that being terrible, needs to calculate any percentages, nor has to debate about whether it will get better in 12 months. I don't need to contact other people to find out what they think. Doing that to even one person is completely unacceptable and shows a "doctor" with an uncaring nature who has the capability to be that way to anyone. It defies the principles of medicine and is extremely unprofessional. If you wish to move forward with someone who has displayed that type of character, lack of integrity, and the ability to not resolve a problem a patient, it is absolutely your right. I am not here to try to change your mind. I am simply speaking from my experience, but you have said you have no experience to speak of with Dr. Erdogan yet. I am not able to comprehend putting myself in your position when making your last post. I have a reason to say something based on my experience with Dr. Erdogan and the loss I incurred because of him. You have never lost anything due to him nor had any type of result or experience with him. What in the world can you possibly even say about him at this point that is of any relevance to anyone, much less me, to offer "balance " ? Are you going to fix my problem ? Or are you only saying he has been gracious so far in offering to accept your money ? Are you serious for making such a comment ? This is one post/advertisement that makes itself look ridiculous. I do still genuinely wish you the best of luck if you are actually having surgery there. You will probably be offered compensation to post a positive story if you have not already been offered it. There is no need to keep this going like it is some type of argument. There is also certainly no need for you to have to speak for someone who by all accounts and photos is clearly a grown man. Best of luck with your future experiences !

I accept your apology if it is genuine. I have not made up any lies nor attacked you. I have only responded to you . I referred to you misquoting me earlier and making some statements that were not true in your earlier post in the other thread. I did not say much of what you claimed that I did, and I clearly pointed those things out in my response. As far as making up lies is concerned, you made statements on this thread about me having been "banned" and about me being some "crony", etc. . Those are completely baseless, unwarranted, and made up. I have never made anything up about you or anyone else anywhere nor will I. By getting my story and knowledge out there, I am merely telling the truth for all who seek it to find . I respect that your experience with Dr. Erdogan was thankfully much different than mine . Had I not been treated so terribly and in such a disrespectful manner, I would not be posting my story at all. I am honestly amazed Dr. Erdogan treated me in the terrible way he did as this problem could have been resolved when it happened. I again wish you the best and hope you can respect me in the way I have you. Other than the fact that you attacked me and have said untrue things about me,I do not have an inherent problem with you having a different opinion or review of the doctor. My reason for posting about my experience and knowledge of Dr. Erdogan is between he and I and has nothing to do with you. I gave him many chances to resolve the situation previously and have also given him the chance to respond recently.

Thank you for showing me that you said this about me. I was not aware of it as I have a busy life, and this forum is not it. This post further exemplifies the type of behavior you have exhibited with me on this site with your attacking me for giving my opinion to OTHER people and for telling others the truth about a bad experience with Dr. Erdogan. I am not a banned poster. I have no connections to anyone unlike yourself. The forum administrator knows of my problem and of my complaint against Dr. Erdogan because I contacted him long ago at the time it occurred. I am not saying anything about Dr. Erdogan that I have not raised with the forum administrator previously, that I have not experienced myself, read or been told by others , or that I have not posted DIRECTLY TO Dr. Erdogan on the site for him to respond to. It appears from your posts that you have an agenda and that you do not feel others are allowed to have an opinion that differs from yours. I will provide a link to another thread for others to see that outlines my experience with you attacking me and how you contacted me by PM simply because I gave my opinion to someone when it was asked for. Your posts and behavior thereafter show and confirm that it was done in a provocative manner and not in an innocent way that you claimed. My post even predicts how you and others will behave when someone speaks the truth about a negative encounter with any doctor. I was correct. Anyone viewing this can see what has transpired. I don't have time to keep up with it all nor do I care to act childish. What I have said and how I have said it speak for themselves. I am glad you are simply calling more attention to my posts. It certainly appears from your actions that you are the one with connections to a doctor. You go around to every post and attack anyone who has a negative thing to say about Dr. Erdogan or me for warning others about my bad experience with him. You have even made up lies about me here. I will not go down to that level. I am very honest and unbiased in my advice on the forum. It can easily be seen that I often tell people to do their research and often make people aware of truthful information I have seen about multiple doctors. I tell people to make their own informed decisions. You continue to say that I am "bashing" Dr. Erdogan. My bad experience was with Dr. Erdogan so that is the only doctor I can personally speak badly about. Telling people about being treated badly by a doctor and making people aware of bad things about that doctor is not "bashing" someone. it is being truthful. My opinion of Dr. Erdogan will not change because of the way I was treated by him and due to the fact that he never resolved nor even attempted to resolve my problem nor what was done to me. While you have claimed to have no connections to Dr. Erdogan in another thread you ARE a patient of his. I have also pointed out how you have been dishonest with your statements in the thread I will link (which I am sure you will now edit) and also completely misquoted what I wrote. You have attacked me here for speaking the truth. I am now simply responding to your accusations about me again. I joined this site seeking a source for truthful information and will continue to provide truthful information to others in order to help serve the purpose of this site and help prevent others from having a bad experience when making a very important decision in their life. http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/181181-fue-live-consultation-dr-koray-erdogan-5000-grafts-too-much.html You are obviously angry because I have warned people about some negative things surrounding Dr. Erdogan and about my bad experience which I am allowed to do. Prospective patients should be aware of bad things that have happened with all doctors. It helps raise the quality of care everywhere. Would this site be legitimate if it only included good things about doctors ? Would it be believable if no one was ever treated wrong by any doctor ? A doctor should never treat someone in a poor and disrespectful manner like I was if they do not want to have someone talk badly about them in a public place. Despite that and contrary to your behavior, I have always respected your right and everyone's right to have and form their own opinions. I do not attack anyone for holding a contrary opinion or for speaking well of a doctor. Intelligent people can assess the information for themselves as well as the behavior of people such as yourself and decide who is acting in a respectful, professional, and honest manner.

Thank you for editing your message. Let's be clear for the record that you edited out the name calling that was directed at me. I stated in my previous post that I was not going to start arguing since I respect everyone's right to their opinion. I will therefore not do that, but I will simply answer you this time because you said some things that are not true. I obviously spoke in general terms in many instances during my last post. I never said that you worked at the doctor's office anywhere, so your location is not relevant. I said you have "connections" to the doctor. That is obviously correct since you claim to be a patient of his who is very outspoken. To your other statement about me saying that you sent me a negative message, my previous post has not been edited in any way. I obviously did not say that either. I said that "I" have never sent anyone a negative message upon reading that they had something good to say about Dr. Erdogan. I contrasted that with the fact that you went out of your way at the referenced time to send me a PM simply because I replied to someone ELSE asking for advice in a way that clearly expressed a different opinion than you hold. It is clear you are outspoken about opinions I stated you have the right to have. That is OK. Contacting me about those by PM is unnecessary. I considered it provocative. It was clear to me that was the case which I stated is why I did not respond to you. After all, that has now been confirmed since you have later attacked me here in this thread at a time when I also did not communicate with you nor quote you before now. Thank you again for editing your post, and I wish you the best of luck in the future with everything including your results that you stated you are are happy with. I think it is good that the HT helped you ; however, it really has nothing to do with my problem with Dr. Erdogan. I think you should realize that and be able to understand it.

First of all, let me say I am not going to argue with people nor be rude. I am not that type of person. I have an issue with the doctor that I have the right to address. I respect that everyone can have their opinions and I am not out to change them. I am now merely responding to what was recently said to me since it was indirectly calling me dishonest. I was not "pointing my finger". I spoke the truth TO Dr. Erdogan about instances which Dr. Erdogan and I both know are the truth. That is what matters. I don't have to convince other people to come forward on this thread to prove anything further even though I can prove some of what I said on my own. The doctor knows that. That is what is important. I will not resort to making attacks against others or name calling like those on this forum that have blind devotion to a doctor they think can do no wrong simply because they had surgery with him or because they represent him . Just because another person on the forum has had a good experience with Dr. Erdogan does not mean that he has not treated some people terribly. Does the fact that some people on this forum claim to have had a good experience with him mean that he is perfect or that he has never done anyone wrong ? I am sure there are some people in this world that would testify to the fact that even some serial killers seemed to be the nicest people they had ever known according to their experiences with them. Does the fact that people who have been treated terribly by Dr. Erdogan do not want to post publicly about their stories mean the experiences did not happen ? Are they required to relive their trauma, shame themselves, and subject themselves to ridicule for their experience to be true ? Really ? I suppose rape victims who do not come forward for similar reasons also were never raped. Yaz89, my life is not defined by this forum nor does it revolve around a HT. I have no ties to any doctor like you do. I simply know of bad experiences I am relaying to others and had one that I am entitled to discuss. You previously went out of your way to send me a private message on 10/4/15 after I simply advised someone against going to Dr. Erdogan who was publicly seeking advice. I find that strange. I have never sent a negative PM to anyone because I saw they said something GOOD about DR. Erdogan. Given the fact that you are a past patient of his and apparently have connections to him, I find that suspicious . That makes your opinion biased to say the least. I chose to be nice and did not respond to your private message. I respect that you are allowed to have your opinion and am not out to change it , but I am also allowed to speak the truth about matters of fact some of which I know about first hand. I did not attack you for your opinion, and I should not be attacked for mine nor for stating the truth to another person. My comment at that time was not made to you nor were my comments in this thread. In this thread, they were made to someone ELSE who happens to be the very person directly involved in the matter that is between us. You have no need to intervene. Dr. Erdogan appears to be a grown man in the photos I have seen of him and should not require your assistance in speaking. To answer those that demand "proof or nothing negative ever happened" ..........I actually did contact the forum administrator here about one of the mentioned experiences with Dr. Erdogan at the time it happened in order to complain about him and relayed the story to them. That backs up what I say. I also still have some other communications that prove what I say, but I am not going to post pages of messages here and now in this thread. I respect this site and those that set it up. The people who run it are not here to handle complaints about doctors nor do things about them. It is not their role apparently. That is not what the recommendations of this site are based upon. Sometimes it seems that may be unfortunate , but it is apparently the case. Yaz89, the nature of this site might actually spur me to eventually create an ongoing thread that warns everyone about Dr. Erdogan and outlines some bad things he has done and some very unprofessional treatment some have received from him. It would serve to help with full disclosure in the information seeking process for everyone seeking information on this site about doctors. This is a perfect example of what is wrong with this forum. It is filled with representatives of doctors and many patients who have ties to doctors and who are compensated by them in some fashion, either directly or indirectly. People who come here seeking unbiased information get a skewed version of the truth. Don't people who read these forums think it is strange that the same people are always posting the same old results for many years after they were done and the same people are commenting about certain doctors ? You really need to follow this forum for a very long time to get an understanding of the truth. Don't people think it is strange that there are few negative stories on the forum and that people are quickly attacked when negative things are said about doctors or bad things are brought to light ? Do people actually think Dr. Erdogan has never had a bad result or never treated anyone wrong ? In what fairy tale world do you live where people are perfect ? When people say negative things about doctors (that happen to be true) in order to inform others and serve the best interest of the community they are attacked by people who either openly or covertly represent the doctor. A big reason for doctors having official and unofficial representatives on here is to try to smooth over bad situations to the point that they will even tell lies and attack patients in order to make the doctor look better. I have seen them blame patients for bad results, accuse them of having a disease, and all sorts of silly things to shift the blame away from the doctor. It is the nature of what they are here for. I am not going to argue with people nor will I criticize patients of Dr. Erdogan. They did not do anything to me before, but they should not negate what I say by the same fact that I am respecting them. I made my truthful statement directly to Dr. Erdogan since he chose to interject himself into this thread which is ironic to me given the fact that he ignored people's multiple important communications in the past. His decision to now chime in here was strange in my opinion since the prospective patient who started the thread obviously had already consulted with the doctor and wanted the opinions of OTHERS regarding what he was told by Dr. Erdogan . Don't you think he would have contacted Dr. Erdogan if he wanted another opinion by him ? He ended up with another explanation and sales pitch from Dr. Erdogan. IMO that could make him more uncomfortable than he was before. Many people have responded to the OP's question that do feel that the number of grafts quoted was outrageous as it does seem to be at this stage of his loss especially when compared to many other patients of Dr. Erdogan. That should not offend anyone since it is their opinion and it was asked for by the OP. Furthermore, if someone had a good experience with Dr. Erdogan, I don't know why they would be bothered by someone bringing up something bad about Dr. Erdogan ? It has no effect on their "good experience". Moreover, does the fact that someone has claimed to have had a good experience with Dr. Erdogan mean that no one has had or can ever have a bad experience with him or that it is not possible he could treat another person terribly ? What kind of logic is that ? That merely goes along with what I have noticed on the forums regarding representatives and "camps" of patients simply promoting one doctor or another at all costs. Since people mentioned "proof" to me and thereby indirectly accused me of not being honest, let's talk about that issue of honesty. Let's discuss the unmentioned "secret" about the fact that Dr. Erdogan does not extract grafts any longer nor does he do the implanting of the grafts as the video he uses to advertise would lead people to believe. This can be confirmed by recent reviews from his own patients on this very site. The problem is that Dr. Erdogan does not overtly disclose this and thereby is committing false advertising. People are led to believe Dr. Erdogan performs the surgery and many only find out during their actual surgical procedure that the techs are the ones who are doing ALL of the extracting and inserting of the grafts. I have heard some patients find this out when Dr. Erdogan disappears to attend to the beginning of another simultaneous surgery. His own patients have mentioned that all Dr. Erdogan does is draw on the hairline and make the incisions, PERIOD. Dr. Erdogan has apparently built his new clinic to enable the maximum number of surgeries in one day to be performed as he performs up to several at ONE time. I have read where many patients who book with him think they are going to be worked on by Dr. Erdogan personally, yet they have no idea about what actually happens nor who will actually work on them. They have no way to select those that work on them ahead of time and many have claimed to be unpleasantly surprised at surgery time. This means their results are partially left to chance and the skills of whatever set of techs they end up with. Some get a good result. Some bad. I wonder why ? If people are OK with that, that is fine. Let's just be honest about what really happens there. While it may happen at some other places also, it does not happen like that everywhere and should not be advertised in a way to mislead anyone. And speaking of "proof"...considering the huge number of surgeries per year done at that clinic based on the number done there every day, I am shocked there are not new , great results put up every day for all to see. Densedream said in this thread, "Dr. Koray has over 50 before and after results that are remarkable....." . Given the fact that Dr. Erdogan's clinic is doing at least a couple to several surgeries a day, Dr. Erdogan should be putting up at least 50 remarkable results a month or every two months if all of his results are so good. It shows that they cherry pick the ones they want to show and that the percentage of great results they produce is not as high as some are led to believe. I represent no one and have nothing to gain or lose. I only want the truth to be out there for all to know. it just so happens I know the truth about some bad things about Dr. Erdogan. I was the victim of one. I gave my opinion when an opinion was asked for and commented to the doctor directly because I found it terrible and ironic he disappeared and completely ignored multiple, important communication attempts in other previous situations but chose to show up in this thread when he was not being contacted but was being publicly discussed. The reason ??? It seems obvious that it is because some people had negative opinions about this graft quote in this case, and that could potentially affect his FUTURE business and his FUTURE income. A past patient with a bad experience that does not come forward publicly (as so many are afraid to do) does not affect his FUTURE income or his reputation. He already has their money. Therefore, he can simply choose not to respond to the people in the manner he did in the situations I have mentioned. After all, he is in business to make money and his actions are driven by it. I simply have advised people about what I know as fact and can prove. If you go there and have a problem, you can be stuck once you are gone and left alone like in the situations I mentioned. Dr. Erdogan did not even respond to those people. Sometimes, you are even left alone and completely ignored before that time but after having already spent thousands of dollars on a plane ticket to go there. I know about that situation myself. You are then screwed and left dealing with that problem on your own. I am not even the first person to mention problems like this. No good doctor would ever treat anyone like that. No good person would ever treat anyone like that. That would tell me all I needed to know if I was researching doctors to use. People searching these forums should be aware of this because cases like this are certainly not advertised by their clinic. They have done it before and can do it again. People do not come forward often to speak about bad things happening because they are attacked from all angles as I am, and no amount of proof is ever sufficient for the people who attack them since they have attachments to the doctor. They will defend the doctor no matter what is said and no matter how bad the action of the doctor is. I wish everyone the best of luck as always and simply advise everyone to always do more than what you think is sufficient research before selecting a doctor for what can be a very important decision for yourself. it is wise to choose a caring doctor that is close to home when possible and one that will provide good aftercare and communication since it will often be necessary.

How is it coming along ? Good ? Bad ? Please update .

I agree with you. I have seen many bad results and experiences from this doctor recently . The OP did a good job listing many relevant posts. I am troubled by the fact that doctors that are "recommended" seem to always be recommended. It seems there can never be enough proof for anyone. The significance of being "recommended" has therefor diminished so much in my eyes that it is a useless side note IMO . For example, I know of some terrible treatment rendered by Dr. Erdogan to several people yet one would think he has an unblemished record by looking on this site. Nothing seems to really be done even when people complain directly to the site. I would advise everyone to do well beyond the amount of research they think is necessary before choosing a doctor. They should also realize that doctors are here to advertise and do not advertise the bad results ! It is therefor very important for people to discuss their bad experiences even if others attempt to minimize them. Unfortunately, I have noticed patients seem to be attacked often for a negative post as if they are at fault...either by moderators, representatives, or by other loyal patients. People are therefor ashamed to post bad results. Even when they do, nothing is done. It seems the word of the patient who has had a bad experience is never considered to be the truth as if they cannot somehow accurately document what transpired . A patient has nothing to gain from saying something bad while a doctor has everything to gain by defending themselves against a bad result or a patient's bad review. The claims the OP made about not being properly examined or having their density properly measured/analyzed is disturbing. It seems one cannot properly even be considered a good candidate or have a plan put in place for the future without having that done. Simply telling a patient they will need a second surgery is not sufficient enough in my opinion to replace a detailed exam. While I do not personally know much about this doctor or the number of surgeries this doctor performs on a given day, I will say that I do feel that other doctors in that area do perform multiple surgeries in one day. IMO , this is becoming a trend that I feel is responsible for many poor and inconsistent results that are often seen. A patient often books with a doctor based on their name. Sometimes that can even include a statement or video by a doctor showing them personally extracting and placing grafts . Then when the patient arrives for surgery, they realize often during the actual surgery that nearly the entire surgery is performed by techs. To me that is false advertising and is dishonest. Dr Erdogan does this. In the video he uses to advertise and represent himself, he extracts the grafts. In reality, he only makes incisions in the multiple surgeries he is involved in every day. This is simply dishonest IMO and is an advertising ploy. If he advertised the fact that he only makes incisions during his surgeries and does not do extractions or implantations, people would not be nearly as attracted to book with him. Any doctor that is not honest in any way should be removed from this site IMO. I would advise paleocapa89 to take meds to achieve the best long term results. It would seem the end result would be obvious without them given your stated family history and loss pattern. paleocapa89, please give your result some more time to pan out since that will be the best way to determine the true outcome . This does not change the fact you were or were not treated properly. I do not doubt your word. I do welcome any evidence you choose to put forth to contradict what the doctor has said as it will serve to inform other people who will read this. Keep us updated. Good luck to you !

It is pretty ironic how you disappeared and never responded to patients I personally know who left your clinic with problems . You also completely ignored a patient leaving them stuck with their purchased plane ticket after you cancelled their surgery date, but you now decide to respond in this forum that asks OTHERS for advice about something you told them ???? You decide to appear only now when some people publicly and rightfully question what you said ? It is about time some people are discussing some ridiculous things you and your clinic have done so others can see them. I think it is great that the truth is being told. I will do my part to make sure all the facts about some of the terrible ways you have treated others are here for people to read so that naive people don't fall victim to your place and its ways.

I agree that this number of grafts quoted is insane. As was pointed out already, it is contradicted by the same dr's previously advertised cases in which similar numbers of grafts were used on nearly bald heads ! I agree that "recommendations" on this site are a joke. I know of several cases in which Dr. Erdogan has completely abandoned patients after surgery never to respond to their communication attempts whatsoever. They were left to deal with their bad outcomes and problems alone. It is clear that he apparently does not look out for nor care about the well being of a patient. I also know of one instance in which a patient who had booked their surgery and purchased their plane ticket was later cancelled by the clinic and told to reschedule ( in what turned out to be a blessing) . They were never responded to again after stating that they were not happy with having had that done to them and could not reschedule. In my opinion, ANY doctor who has been shown to abandon a patient one single time or be dishonest in any way should be removed from this entire site forever. That type of behavior goes against the principles of medicine. Recommending someone who does these types of things undermines the integrity of this site and its recommendations..

There are many people who will recommend many different surgeons in different areas. I have no ties to anyone. I know Dr. Feriduni has often been recommended in Europe. I will say that I have seen multiple people who have recently had poor FUE results with him. The reputation of many surgeons online is often far better than what it should be IMO. Only good results are advertised and people do not often speak of the bad results. I do know that Dr. Feriduni will not abandon someone that has a bad outcome. Regarding the OP's situation and what they termed "African type hair", I would suggest they contact Dr. Patrick Mwamba since he is also of African decent. I do not know much about him nor do I know anyone who has been to him. You can find out more about him on his website. He apparently performs surgeries in multiple locations. I suggest that everyone research any doctor they are thinking about using. Sometimes knowing bad things about some can simply help narrow down your choices . Take all things into consideration. Don't simply rely on a good photo or two on the site or comments from someone who may be compensated in some way to make them.

I would advise you to stay away from Dr. Erdogan. it is widely known that he quotes people double the number of grafts than what is needed at times. In my opinion that clinic was built to optimize profits and conduct surgeries like a mill. I have advised people against going to Dr. Erdogan in several posts and provided more details in them about how poorly he has treated people in situations I know the details of. You can't always take what you see at face value and you must dig deeper in order to find the best surgeon. I would advise you to stay in the USA if you live in the USA. Not only would it be easier for you, but there are numerous doctors in the USA who are more ethical in their approach, as equally skilled in their surgical abilities, and who genuinely care for their patients such that they will treat you with respect. They will give you good, sound, honest advice and a plan that looks out for you in the long term.

I don't know where you live, but I would strongly suggest not going to Dr. Erdogan for many reasons which include the awful treatment of some patients I personally know of. It would be wise not to go to Turkey in my opinion . Although you could get lucky,I have seen some bad results and unhappy patients who recently have been there. You cannot always go by some pictures that look good to you and the results on this board. Many are advertisements and statements made by people who are compensated in some fashion to write good reviews. Negative results are rarely discussed on this board. I would advise you to go to a doctor who practices good aftercare and one that is proven to be very honest and ethical with their advice. Good luck to you.

5000 grafts is not only OUTRAGEOUS at your current stage of loss, but quoting you that number of grafts is obviously an attempt to maximize the money he can make. DR. Erdogan can certainly afford to charge less per graft when he would practically rape someone by nearly doubling the amount of grafts needed. I have seen so much garbage behavior from this doctor . He has no ethical judgement to be quoting people this number of grafts at this stage of loss when there are so many examples of cases that have much more loss than you and have required a lot less grafts to still achieve dense packing. I can site several examples of how Erdogan apparently does not care about his patients . That clinic was built to maximize profits. There is not an honest surgeon around that would back up Dr. Erdogan in this case and what you were quoted. Although it is certainly your choice, I suggest you not proceed with Erdogan and proceed with caution going to Turkay whatsoever. It would normally be a big gamble for you to go there. After seeing what you were quoted, I would advise you to stay away. I am going to copy and paste a previous reply I gave to someone else who asked about Dr. Doganay and Dr.Erdogan to me.... Where do you live ? I would highly suggest not going to Turkey, but that is my personal opinion. I have no stake in telling you that. I don't promote anyone. I have seen a few bad results and unhappy patients from your mentioned doctor recently.Here is just one recent post . It seems the doctor was not honest with that patient. I can understand a bad result here and there since a HT has risk, but being dishonest or even ignoring a patient like Dr. Erdogan has is inexcusable to me. http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.co...turkey-14.html Regarding Dr. Erdogan, I have had several people I know and know about go to him and had a terrible experience in which hair was taken out of the safe zone and fell out after the transplant. I had read and seen prior to that point that people stated he did that in some threads . It makes sense. I recently saw he did a FUE with 10000 grafts on a young guy ! Along that line, he typically does huge procedures on young people during "megasessions" (which some say are not wise for everyone) and with very low hairlines on people that have no business having them done. He uses hairlines that are destined to fail because he cannot yet determine the loss pattern at their young age and stage of loss. One can only wonder how these will turn out in the future. Sure, someone will get lucky and get a good result , but I don't want to risk it myself. Do you ? The super large amount of grafts done with FUE only promote the chance of a bad outcome. Most of the results posted are immediately post op when you can see the hairline well. Some will post shortly after it starts growing. Just because it grew for a while does not mean it is not going to fall out soon or later, especially when considering the large number of FUE grafts done there, the megasessions, and the fact hair is taken from outside of the safe zone. I can show you posts where people were happy with their results from an FUE and then later it fell out.Ever notice how many people disappear after the first photos never to be seen again and have no more follow up ? People viewing them online see the results in the way they want to see them and the way they are advertised to be taken. Erdogan takes cash payment under the table which is shady in itself. The people I know had problems as I mentioned. Once their hair fell out after surgery , they contacted the clinic respectfully and none of them got one single reply. One guy replied for up to a year. It was never possible to speak to the doctor nor were any calls returned ever. it was clear they were intentionally forgotten about. After all, what could be done on the other side of the world ? Prior to the surgery they always got responses . People who have that done to them are often ashamed and embarrassed.They often don't want to make it known that happened to them even though it would be in the best interest of people seeking advice and this forum. I personally feel that a doctor who ignores one single patient after surgery or is shown to be dishonest one time should be removed from this site and the society completely. There is a user "DELM" who recently posted a similar story on here and people said to post pictures or it didn't happen. Although it would be nice, that is the problem. There is never enough proof for people sometimes. On the contrary , do you think the doctor is going to advertise bad results? They operate on several patients a day. That is a ton a year. Why are there not even more photos of great outcomes than there are ?? Regardless, the story of Delm sounds similar to the stories I know are true and have seen. Sometimes people will even blame the victim and say it is their fault when they post bad results, so many people just avoid saying anything bad on the forum at all. You have to look at it from the victim's point of view also. This site is also filled with reps of doctors who chime in and try to smooth things over , some of which have attacked people who have told the truth at times. They are compensated to represent the doctors. it costs the doctors to do this also. I know of another case in which someone booked with Dr. Erdogan , got their flight, and was given a deadline by which to make their surgery deposit and buy their plane ticket. Before the deposit deadline arrived, the clinic emailed them and informed them that their appointment was cancelled in order to get another patient in that time slot instead. When the guy said he already had his plane ticket paid for and could not change it, they never responded to him again after a long time of trying. He was stuck with his ticket and had wasted all that time and money. They obviously do not care about people based on those situations. It seems they do care about money. They built a nice ,new clinic to attract people . It also allows as many people as possible to come through there like a mill. As a result, they perform several surgeries a day and at least a couple at the same time. People think they are having a surgery by the doctor when it is actually done primarily by an entire team of technicians. The ONLY thing the doctor does is draw the hairline and make incisions. Then he goes to another patient. Of course they do not advertise that fact. He even has a video out showing him doing graft removal but the story of a recent patient even verifies he does not do that...false advertising. As a result of having the techs do the work in that fashion, it is pot luck who will be doing a procedure on you and you have no way to choose who works on you.One person may get a good result and another a terrible one. Why ? A new tech, a bad tech, a different tech , a tech that did a poor job ? Who knows what was done or who did it. But once you leave with a problem, you are all alone and will get no help as in the cases I have outlined. Some people are not even good candidates for an FUE procedure and this can only be determined by an in person evaluation from a credible and honest surgeon. Most people seem to go to Erdogan after getting a consultation online. They are told they are a good candidate that way . Do you think they are going to cancel their surgery when they get there after finding out the opposite or even be told by the clinic to cancel it so they can lose that money at the time of the surgery because they are actually not a good FUE candidate ? You are obviously free to choose whoever you want to go to. I am merely giving you the information I know about because you asked me to. I would suggest you not go to Turkey and risk bad things happening that you will be stuck to face on your own when there are still doctors in various locations who will perform the entire surgery by themselves with only the assistance of techs and who will only perform your surgery on that particular day. Those doctors will also be there for you to address after care and any problems or questions that arise. There are some who will even communicate with you personally and who value their reputation as surgeons enough not to ignore patients nor dump them after surgery. You can see them prior to having surgery if you ever do in the future and get a truthful evaluation of what is best for you. Too many people are excited to get every hair back when they see they are losing some and places like Dr. Erdogan merely take advantage of that fact. Good luck to you with whatever you end up doing. I hope you get a great result if you choose move forward !