FUE Live Consultation with Dr Koray Erdogan - 5000 grafts is it too much

[AW]

Dear All,

 

Thank you for this super beneficial platform that has been nicely put together to enable us all hair loss sufferers to communicate together and share our learnings and experiences while also seek advise.

 

A quick brief about myself, am 30 years old, started to loose my hair at the age of 19, been on propecia for 9 years with some breaks in between. I had my 1st FUT at the age on 25 with almost 2000 grafts planted in the Crown area and temples, that was quiet successful with a very minimal back scare that is barely there.

 

My hair loss has been relatively stable for the past years with minimal hair loss progression most probably halted by propecia.

 

I plan now to do my 2nd HT, thru FUE to refine my hairline, dense the frontal area and also the vertex. Based on online research I decided to go to Turkey and get a consultation from Dr. Koray Erdogan given his very solid online reputation.

 

I arrived to the clinic, have to stay it's state of art. The staff were very welcoming and friendly. They took pictures of my hair, than took me to meet the doctor.

 

The doctor examined my donor area, my recipient area, asked me about my expectations which I answered to. He was clear that HT is not a perfect process and that results can vary from one person to another which was somehow discomforting. He stated that i had a total of 8600 grafts in my donor, and that the requirement for my HT would be 5000 grafts.

 

5000 grafts was very surprising to me as I see it too much in my case and would also leave me with little buffer if any for the future. For that am very confused and reconsidering and so I am seeking advise and feedback

 

Attached are my pictures along with the hair line drawing. Do you think 5000 grafts is a bit too much in my case. Appreciate everyone's input,

 

Thx

Edited October 9, 2015 by AW

[JamesOfMiami]

I hate putting my two cents in because I'm no expert but I have read that you shouldn't do 5000 grafts in one sitting. Check out Turker Ozyigit. He is doing a two part transplant on me (because I'm balder than you) and he uses platelet therapy.

[AW]

Thank you James for the advise, the only thing is that the HT will be split over 2 days, 2500 grafts per day. What am worried about is the number of grafts in my case. Would I actually require 5000 grafts..

[JamesOfMiami]

I've heard nothing but good stuff about Erdogan so I assume you are in good hands. But it still seems like over kill to me. Plus 5000 grafts in two days is very taxing to your donor site. That's why it makes me wonder if you don't need a second opinion.

[Janna]

5000 grafts? Did Dr. Erdogan say how he's distributing the grafts (how many to hairline and crown areas)?

Edited October 12, 2015 by Janna

[splitting hairs]

Dr Erdogan is known to use excessive graft numbers.

 

You must remember that you will still probably lose hair in the future, even if you stay on propecia.

 

5000 grafts with your level of hair loss is beyond ridiculous and any good doctor will agree. Plus doing 5k grafts in one sitting will cause major trauma and reduce the yield.

 

Looking at your photos you probably need 2500 grafts for a solid hairline and good coverage to the crown.

 

Hair loss is progressive so don't use up all your grafts now. Keep some for the future.

 

You are in a great position at the moment and just need a few tweaks, not a complete overhaul.

 

Good luck

[mav23100gunther]

5,000 grafts is ridiculous - that's freakin insane. 2,000 - 2,500 is all you need. Are you sure you never misunderstood him - maybe he said 5,000 is the max he can do in 1 visit.

[FUE2014]

5k grafts is bullshit and completely unethical.

[Rawkerboi]

Dr.Koray is known for aggressive hairlines and dense packing but 5000 Grafts is way too much! What he is planning to do? Ruin your native hair from shock loss?

 

In my opinion please consult few more doctors and I am very sure no doctor will suggest 5000 Grafts to you.

 

2500-2800(Depends upon density) Grafts is enough for you.

[Mickey85]

I personally would not proceed. I feel 5,000 grafts is much too much for you to deplete at this point in time. Even if you never lost another hair ever again I still feel 5,000 would not be needed for a great result. The difference here(as with all/most of us) is that you may lose more hair and 5,000 grafts out of the donor is a significant hit even if you have VERY high density(ie 7,000-8,000 available grafts). You should also factor in the possibility that there is always a small chance the surgery might not yield all that well as this happens with even the best surgeons(of which I thin Erdogan is one of the best FUE surgeons), there is always that chance.

 

It is your call. Proceed wisely.

[Sean]

5000 grafta is a lot... What if somethin happens and you need more for a repair kr what if you develop serious shockloss in your recipient or donor areas? Think it through logically and see if this is a safe bet. Trust me, i may have been blessed with great donor density but it is turning out to be a nightmare.... Im tryna get past these things asap and actually be repaired with a proper surgical protocol inclusive of proper framing, donor repair and recipient repair. Get multiple consults to see how each varies. No doubt dr Erdogan does great affordable work but the count is quite high. Hopefully the procedure is broken up into multiple procedures versus just one sittinginquire about who will do surgical extractions, the techs or the doctor? Best of luck

[wibbles180]

5000 grafts at this stage is madness !!! I am noticing more and more that dr erdogans counts are higher than anyone else , is he not getting the yield of say Lorenzo and other top clinics ? Or is it because his prices are low ? Either way I'd ask de erdogan if he would be willing to drop the amount as his work is still top draw but 5000 is far too much !

[wibbles180]

Why would he put 5000 into this patient and 5000 into you , when clearly he has more loss than you , is he just working to maximum grafts available etc ?

[CJD]

5000 grafts is not only OUTRAGEOUS at your current stage of loss, but quoting you that number of grafts is obviously an attempt to maximize the money he can make. DR. Erdogan can certainly afford to charge less per graft when he would practically rape someone by nearly doubling the amount of grafts needed.

 

I have seen so much garbage behavior from this doctor . He has no ethical judgement to be quoting people this number of grafts at this stage of loss when there are so many examples of cases that have much more loss than you and have required a lot less grafts to still achieve dense packing. I can site several examples of how Erdogan apparently does not care about his patients . That clinic was built to maximize profits. There is not an honest surgeon around that would back up Dr. Erdogan in this case and what you were quoted. Although it is certainly your choice, I suggest you not proceed with Erdogan and proceed with caution going to Turkay whatsoever. It would normally be a big gamble for you to go there. After seeing what you were quoted, I would advise you to stay away. I am going to copy and paste a previous reply I gave to someone else who asked about Dr. Doganay and Dr.Erdogan to me....

 

 

 

 

Where do you live ? I would highly suggest not going to Turkey, but that is my personal opinion. I have no stake in telling you that. I don't promote anyone. I have seen a few bad results and unhappy patients from your mentioned doctor recently.Here is just one recent post . It seems the doctor was not honest with that patient. I can understand a bad result here and there since a HT has risk, but being dishonest or even ignoring a patient like Dr. Erdogan has is inexcusable to me.

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.co...turkey-14.html

 

 

Regarding Dr. Erdogan, I have had several people I know and know about go to him and had a terrible experience in which hair was taken out of the safe zone and fell out after the transplant. I had read and seen prior to that point that people stated he did that in some threads . It makes sense. I recently saw he did a FUE with 10000 grafts on a young guy !

Along that line, he typically does huge procedures on young people during "megasessions" (which some say are not wise for everyone) and with very low hairlines on people that have no business having them done. He uses hairlines that are destined to fail because he cannot yet determine the loss pattern at their young age and stage of loss. One can only wonder how these will turn out in the future. Sure, someone will get lucky and get a good result , but I don't want to risk it myself. Do you ? The super large amount of grafts done with FUE only promote the chance of a bad outcome.

Most of the results posted are immediately post op when you can see the hairline well. Some will post shortly after it starts growing. Just because it grew for a while does not mean it is not going to fall out soon or later, especially when considering the large number of FUE grafts done there, the megasessions, and the fact hair is taken from outside of the safe zone. I can show you posts where people were happy with their results from an FUE and then later it fell out.Ever notice how many people disappear after the first photos never to be seen again and have no more follow up ? People viewing them online see the results in the way they want to see them and the way they are advertised to be taken.

 

Erdogan takes cash payment under the table which is shady in itself. The people I know had problems as I mentioned. Once their hair fell out after surgery , they contacted the clinic respectfully and none of them got one single reply. One guy replied for up to a year. It was never possible to speak to the doctor nor were any calls returned ever. it was clear they were intentionally forgotten about. After all, what could be done on the other side of the world ? Prior to the surgery they always got responses . People who have that done to them are often ashamed and embarrassed.They often don't want to make it known that happened to them even though it would be in the best interest of people seeking advice and this forum. I personally feel that a doctor who ignores one single patient after surgery or is shown to be dishonest one time should be removed from this site and the society completely. There is a user "DELM" who recently posted a similar story on here and people said to post pictures or it didn't happen. Although it would be nice, that is the problem. There is never enough proof for people sometimes. On the contrary , do you think the doctor is going to advertise bad results? They operate on several patients a day. That is a ton a year. Why are there not even more photos of great outcomes than there are ?? Regardless, the story of Delm sounds similar to the stories I know are true and have seen. Sometimes people will even blame the victim and say it is their fault when they post bad results, so many people just avoid saying anything bad on the forum at all. You have to look at it from the victim's point of view also. This site is also filled with reps of doctors who chime in and try to smooth things over , some of which have attacked people who have told the truth at times. They are compensated to represent the doctors. it costs the doctors to do this also.

 

I know of another case in which someone booked with Dr. Erdogan , got their flight, and was given a deadline by which to make their surgery deposit and buy their plane ticket. Before the deposit deadline arrived, the clinic emailed them and informed them that their appointment was cancelled in order to get another patient in that time slot instead. When the guy said he already had his plane ticket paid for and could not change it, they never responded to him again after a long time of trying. He was stuck with his ticket and had wasted all that time and money. They obviously do not care about people based on those situations. It seems they do care about money. They built a nice ,new clinic to attract people . It also allows as many people as possible to come through there like a mill. As a result, they perform several surgeries a day and at least a couple at the same time. People think they are having a surgery by the doctor when it is actually done primarily by an entire team of technicians. The ONLY thing the doctor does is draw the hairline and make incisions. Then he goes to another patient. Of course they do not advertise that fact. He even has a video out showing him doing graft removal but the story of a recent patient even verifies he does not do that...false advertising. As a result of having the techs do the work in that fashion, it is pot luck who will be doing a procedure on you and you have no way to choose who works on you.One person may get a good result and another a terrible one. Why ? A new tech, a bad tech, a different tech , a tech that did a poor job ? Who knows what was done or who did it. But once you leave with a problem, you are all alone and will get no help as in the cases I have outlined.

 

Some people are not even good candidates for an FUE procedure and this can only be determined by an in person evaluation from a credible and honest surgeon. Most people seem to go to Erdogan after getting a consultation online. They are told they are a good candidate that way . Do you think they are going to cancel their surgery when they get there after finding out the opposite or even be told by the clinic to cancel it so they can lose that money at the time of the surgery because they are actually not a good FUE candidate ?

 

You are obviously free to choose whoever you want to go to. I am merely giving you the information I know about because you asked me to. I would suggest you not go to Turkey and risk bad things happening that you will be stuck to face on your own when there are still doctors in various locations who will perform the entire surgery by themselves with only the assistance of techs and who will only perform your surgery on that particular day. Those doctors will also be there for you to address after care and any problems or questions that arise. There are some who will even communicate with you personally and who value their reputation as surgeons enough not to ignore patients nor dump them after surgery. You can see them prior to having surgery if you ever do in the future and get a truthful evaluation of what is best for you. Too many people are excited to get every hair back when they see they are losing some and places like Dr. Erdogan merely take advantage of that fact.

 

Good luck to you with whatever you end up doing. I hope you get a great result if you choose move forward !

[AW]

5000 grafts? Did Dr. Erdogan say how he's distributing the grafts (how many to hairline and crown areas)?

My opinion is that it's a shockingly high number required.

 

Hi janna

 

Thx for the advise, 3500 in the frontal area crown and hairline and 1500 at the vertex

[AW]

Thank you all for the feedback and advise..I can't agree more with all what has been said; I was very excited about Dr erdogan but now it seems very much worrying especially that a long term plan has not been taken into perspective which leaves me with serious doubts; I will seek consultation from other surgeon, am considering now doctor Feriduni; the only thing is that am not sure how much he charges per graft, whether he performs Manuel graft extraction, and how feasible would it be to book an operation in the coming few months given his loaded schedule..

 

Would appreciate advise on the same and thank you all alot for your valuable advise,

 

Bests

[james84]

Behave...5000 grafts. I'm sorry but that amount and the amount you really need is crazy! And i am a fan of Dr Koray. Consult with numerous Drs and you will hopefully realise how this amount does not sum up. I'm no Dr but you do not need half this amount.

[Stig]

Where are all the FUT haters like HTsoon and Seth now? This is why Etdogan gets such high yield with FUE, he overcompensates - 5,000 grafts is an absolute joke - Bill/ David, your recommended surgeons are a complete joke if Erdogan is recommending 5,000 grafts for this dude

[LondonHTseeker]

Behave...

 

 

[Sethticles]

Where are all the FUT haters like HTsoon and Seth now?

 

right here buddy, and yeah 5000 is the biggest load of shizzle,

[stinger99]

I would not proceed with a dr who recommends 5000 if I had ur level of hairloss, that is completely crazy. Max for ur case I would say 2500. See what that brings u and then if need be do a second op down the line for 2500 grafts.

[AW]

Yah I have to admit that I was shocked myself, I was very much excited about Dr erdogan and when I heard the 5000 thing It was a knock down for me; I felt that he really didn't care at all about any future plan; it was very much transactional for him; I came in very excited and went out feeling down and dissapointed. .

 

My plan now is to consult Dr feriduni; I will plan a flight to Brussel so that he can examine me and than probably arrange for a day to do the ht; I heard his very ethical and caring for his patients and also one of the best fue surgeons out there..

 

I would appreciate any feedback or experiences with Dr feriduni,

 

Many thanks to all

[BigP]

I had 5000 grafts. Check my blog post. I am shocked. That's a lot for someone with so much hair! I had NW5 and I had just enough to get a little coverage. I would say 2500 for you. I had 5000 over two days and it is exhausting. Probably too much for you imho

[CJD]

Where are all the FUT haters like HTsoon and Seth now? This is why Etdogan gets such high yield with FUE, he overcompensates - 5,000 grafts is an absolute joke - Bill/ David, your recommended surgeons are a complete joke if Erdogan is recommending 5,000 grafts for this dude

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree that this number of grafts quoted is insane. As was pointed out already, it is contradicted by the same dr's previously advertised cases in which similar numbers of grafts were used on nearly bald heads !

 

I agree that "recommendations" on this site are a joke. I know of several cases in which Dr. Erdogan has completely abandoned patients after surgery never to respond to their communication attempts whatsoever. They were left to deal with their bad outcomes and problems alone. It is clear that he apparently does not look out for nor care about the well being of a patient. I also know of one instance in which a patient who had booked their surgery and purchased their plane ticket was later cancelled by the clinic and told to reschedule ( in what turned out to be a blessing) . They were never responded to again after stating that they were not happy with having had that done to them and could not reschedule.

 

In my opinion, ANY doctor who has been shown to abandon a patient one single time or be dishonest in any way should be removed from this entire site forever. That type of behavior goes against the principles of medicine. Recommending someone who does these types of things undermines the integrity of this site and its recommendations..

[densedream]

Dr. Koray Erdogan MD Hair Transplant Surgeon in Istanbul, Turkey

 

 

Just look at these results.. Dr. Koray always post results here way more consistently that most doctors. I would say more than half haven't even posted a result in the last 6 months.. Yet with Dr. Koray I see once nearly once a week.

 

I have to say I disagree with everyone else here saying's too much. Are those the picture you posted here the only and same ones you sent Dr. Koray to evaluate? Being that I have had almost 9000 grafts and my hair was like your or maybe even better, I don't underestimate the amount of grafts it will take for a dense look. You hair is low density in most areas so it will take a lot of grafts to get the above 50% density so it's not see through. The people saying 2,500 grafts have no idea what they are talking about. I'm sure the Dr. is going to target all of the areas not just the front 1/3rd.