Why almost all transplants STILL look unnatural.

[hairyjoe]

I've been reading this board for years and through that time I've seen hairlines look better and better, but never totally natural. Granted, there may be natural results out there I just haven't seen, if so please post them if you have.

 

The reason they don't look natural is the caliper of hair at the hairlines are too thick and docs for some reason are super resistant to use thinner nape/ body hair because of POSSIBLY losing those hairs down the line. We'll, I must rather have a natural hairline for 5 years that needs to be touched up later, than an unnatural wall of fake looking hair forever. wouldn't you?

 

So my question is this... We as patients, now demand 1's in the hairline, a natural staggered hairline design, hairs placed in the proper direction..... But we don't demand docs complete their improvements with the final piece of the puzzle...thin, natural looking hairs.

 

Why don't we? Why do we give the docs a pass when it comes to this? Are we just so happy that hairlines now look so much better we don't care if they look TOTALLY natural?

 

We should be banding together and demand this from ALL docs. If we don't, they will never change...they have no incentive to do so.

 

But the thing that discourages/ infuriates me the most is that this community seems to poo poo the idea too, just regurgitating the docs argument that the hair may eventually fall out. Who cares!!!! It's a risk I would gladly take and the docs should at least give us the option.

 

( I know I'm not alone, there is a similar thread on page 2 or 3.)

[Rootz]

I've seen many high end results that look really natural IMO.

I don't have any particular cases in mind, but most of the hairlines done by Lorenzo are both dense and typically indistinguishable from naturally occuring ones. It's hard to define "natural" though because hair naturally takes so many different appearances. I don't think anyone can accurately determine whether some of these top end results are natural or not without very close inspection.

 

The best doctors already do staggered hairline lines and patterns. I take it you're suggesting the use of nape hair to simulate miniaturized hair? I think that could be beneficial, but at the same time I'm not sure having miniaturized hair is a requirement to be natural. But even if it was, I'm not sure it would be really necessary. Is there a case with nape hair you can link?

 

Now with that said, I agree most results I see online (including here) have the "HT" look to them... it may be subtle, and maybe no one in the real world would ever suspect anything, but it's usually there and you can pick up on it if you're looking for it. I'm mainly talking about the hairline. The most common tell is hair line itself being too consistent... as in the line is too well defined and/or the hairs are placed in a synthetic looking pattern.

 

One way to avoid the above problem is to intentionally transplant at very low density. This gives a result that looks like the person is still losing hair, but can be very hard to detect if done right. Of course, people generally don't want to look like they're still losing hair or thinnin, so this is not necessarily a good idea but can still offer improvement. I've seen low caliber work that while I would not necessarily call good, sometimes looks very natural... for whatever that's worth.

[Noodles123]

Well true to an extent, but a big part of it is that people don't know how to style their hair appropriately. Sometimes the biggest give away is patients choosing to style their hair in a way that is not suitable for transplanted hair. Trying to relive the glory days by slicking your transplanted hair straight back or spiking it straight up does not help with the illusion when natural light hits your head. You need to be a little clever because transplanted hair can never achieve natural density.

[voxman]

Screw the hairline ~ that's why mine is going DOWN once I get some length! Like Justin !

[hsrp10]

Even when being really harsh and critical especially comparing with a person with really thick hair, Tom Cruise or Brad Pitt type of thickness for example, I would say that at worst recent hair transplants continue to look somewhat "thin."

 

Some of the work done by the leading surgeons on this board, those in the top 3 of their industry, looks extrememly natural. Unless you go out of your way to tell people they have no idea, and even when you tell them they can't believe it in some cases.

One of my favorite quotes about HT's is that it looks like you are perpetually thinning. I don't fully agree with this 100%, but when wet, in harsh lighting or when parted at certain angles it can still look on the thin side even with multiple procedures.

 

Doctor Konior recently posted a female hairline lowering case here with extreme density, if we could get closer to that level of thickness while of course maintaining the male hairline design, then we could move closer to resolving the last remaining issue of HT's which is density/thickness.

[hsrp10]

I will also add that no one who is thinning and receding and looking to address that will go into a HT asking for the doctor to purposely make it look thinner or to add thinner types of hair in the front hairline

At least I can't understand that type of thinking anyway

[hairyjoe]

Isn't it strange that not one person responded with a concrete example of a natural hairline. Normally you can't stop the paid doctors reps who troll these boards to be quiet. Now they've dissapeared.

 

C'mon reps...you can't stop talking about how great Fellar, Rahal, Konior etc. are...so where are your examples of natural hairlines?

[Rootz]

If a rep responds with a case, they're a troll. If they don't, it's because they can't prove you wrong. I guess they can't win!

 

There's plenty of grade A work that has been posted here that looks very natural. As hsrp10 alluded to a recent female hairline case by Konior is a good example of such. I linked it below,

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/175789-raymond-konior-md-chicago-female-hairline-restoration-2161-grafts.html

 

Like I said, pretty much all of Lorenzo's hairlines look great... watch some of the videos posted here or on his website. Here's a few examples from Feriduni. If I met any of the people in the following cases without knowing about their HT, I would think, "Those lucky bastards!" ... I'm sure I'd have no idea.

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/171400-fue-performed-dr-feriduni-%96-2972-fu-two-days-session.html

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/168409-fue-performed-dr-feriduni-%96-2485-fu-single-day-session.html

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/168070-fue-performed-dr-feriduni-%96-3112-fu-2-successive-days-session.html

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/161602-fue-performed-dr-feriduni-%96-1441-fu-single-day-session.html

[1978matt]

Here's a natural hairline:)

[hairyjoe]

1878matt....are those photos what u consider a natural result or are those examples of a poor result. They look unnatural to me..hair direction looks off looping back strangely...hairs also look way too coarse for hairline.... If they are an example of Konior's best work and he is one of the best, I will wait until docs achieve even more refined results. I think they will eventually do that. This is just my opinion, no insult is meant to anyone.

Edited July 13, 2014 by hairyjoe

[Spanker]

There is a tool bar on the side of this page where you can pull up tons of results from Doctors Konior, Lorenzo, Shapiro, Hasson, Bisanga, Dorin, etc, etc, that have tons of natural hair lines.

 

However, if these guys don't do it for you, you should probably skip the transplant as it would be doubtful you could be made a happy patient.

[Baldybee2]

I agree that some hairlines don't look natural. However, some do look natural as well. I do think the pictures we see posted by doctors don't really depict what you would see in real life. Pictures are altered and sometimes had Photoshop done. I know because all HT look thin. I seen before and after pictures stating norwood 6 with 2300 grafts done and the picture show a full set of hair. It's just amazing that when you stop and actually think about it, it's just no way. Any hair transplant doctor can tell you that you be lucky to achieve 20 percent density on your first hair transplant; hence, thin look. Nothing like the pictures or commercial or YouTube vids show.

[hsrp10]

Hair transplants are all about your current level of hairloss and expectations going in.

 

Matt for example went in as Norwoord 4A, and is now able to wear his hair styled back and currently has a solidly defined hairline, though someone with a different level of loss/density may feel some need to criticize it.

 

The top surgeons here produce natural work and present honest documentation.

BB2, I don't think you are a good candidate as you apparently already have thick hair and have high expectations

[Baldybee2]

Yes I agree the top docs produce good results. Who are these top doctors? We all need to do the research to find these top doctors. But you got to admit pictures do not depict real life as we know this industry with before and pictures with the angles And lighting often show a thick full set of hair which causes people who have hair transplant to be disappointed. We need to educate people and have them understand hair transplant do not give density. All I'm saying is some hairlines look natural and some don't. And some before and after pictures look great but in real life that is not the case.

[hsrp10]

I think you are forgetting what forum you are on, most patients who do decide to proceed after researching a lot on this forum (1) have realistic expectations and (2) actually would benefit from surgery

 

hair restoration is not for everyone and cannot give anyone back their juvenile density and hair thickness

those are givens

[Baldybee2]

Yes I agree that hair restoration cannot give you back your full density. Usually at best is 45 percent density And that is with 2 procedures.

[LondonHT]

I like you hairyjoe. Give them all a really hard time , wont hurt!

[hsrp10]

I like you hairyjoe. Give them all a really hard time , wont hurt!

 

yeah right sure, just make sure to do it in positive way that's not rude or crass to another forum member

Matt's very helpful and gives back even though he's had a successful procedure.

It only hurts when veterans get tired of the bs and say why bother to post here anymore

[Since21]

1878matt....are those photos what u consider a natural result or are those examples of a poor result. They look extremely unnatural to me..hair direction looks off looping back strangely...hairs also look way too coarse for hairline.... If they are an example of Konior's best work, I'd avoid him like the plague.

 

There's a saying, hairyjoe: If 10 people say you have a tail, sooner or later you have to turn around and take a look. You would be in the minority in considering Matt's result to be unnatural. I have a very discerning eye - my job demands it - and Matt's result certainly gives the illusion of a natural hairline.

 

I've also had a HT by Konior and have had many intimate encounters and not one person has called me out or even commented on my hair. Of the people I've told, they are pretty blown away. I count on the illusion. If you scrutinize it closely, it certainly lacks the density of a full hairline, but most of us know what we're getting into when we start this. We're counting on the skill and artistry of the surgeon to create that illusion, not restore our hairline to its former glory.

[1978matt]

1878matt....are those photos what u consider a natural result or are those examples of a poor result. They look extremely unnatural to me..hair direction looks off looping back strangely...hairs also look way too coarse for hairline.... If they are an example of Konior's best work, I'd avoid him like the plague.

 

Natural result. I'm just under 11 months and yes the ends are a little coarse at the moment as is the case with any transplant. These coarse ends will eventually get trimmed off as I have more haircuts. As was pointed out I am styling it 'swept back'.

 

I'm surprised you think it looks bad as I've had nothing but compliments from people who know I had it done. Maybe my pictures just aren't clear enough but it is not coarse at all in the hairline.

[hairyjoe]

I wasn't being negative, I was being honest. I didn't mention the pics Matt posted looked unnatural because I was trying to offend anyone. I mention it, because I think both doctors and most on this board except the current state of transplants as being natural when they are not. They are much better than they used to be, and I understand a nw4 might be thrilled with the result, but I believe hairlines could and should be even better. Innovation shouldn't just stop bc transplants are better...we should strive to improve them until they really look totally natural. Spanker, with all due respect, To say this is the best they can be and you shouldn't have one if you expect totally natural is ridiculous in my mind. Tell Konior we know they are much better, but we want him and all docs to strive for even better. I really believe they could eventually do totally natural if we expected/ demanded it from all of them. It baffles me why more on this board don't talk about wanting transplant improvements to continue and not stall. Better does not equal totally natural. Most of you don't seem to care., but some of us do and we should make our voice heard.

 

I'll get off my soapbox now.

 

Joe

[Since21]

Innovation shouldn't just stop bc transplants are better...we should strive to improve them until they really look totally natural.

 

It's not like hair restoration surgeons have just thrown their collective hands up in the air and said, 'This is as good as it gets, boys.' There are several practicing at a very high level, but they can only take it so far due to limited donor supply.

 

 

Spanker, with all due respect, To say this is the best they can be and you shouldn't have one if you expect totally natural is ridiculous in my mind. Tell Konior we know they are much better, but we want him and all docs to strive for even better.

 

If you ever met Dr. Konior you would know that he literally obsesses over how he can create more natural hairlines.

 

 

I really believe they could eventually do totally natural if we expected/ demanded it from all of them. It baffles me why more on this board don't talk about wanting transplant improvements to continue and not stall. Better does not equal totally natural. Most of you don't seem to care., but some of us do and we should make our voice heard.

 

Until the issue of limited donor supply can be remedied, I think most of us are just being realistic as to what can be achieved at this point.

[1978matt]

I wasn't being negative, I was being honest. I didn't mention the pics Matt posted looked unnatural because I was trying to offend anyone. I mention it, because I think both doctors and most on this board except the current state of transplants as being natural when they are not. They are much better than they used to be, and I understand a nw4 might be thrilled with the result, but I believe hairlines could and should be even better. Innovation shouldn't just stop bc transplants are better...we should strive to improve them until they really look totally natural. Spanker, with all due respect, To say this is the best they can be and you shouldn't have one if you expect totally natural is ridiculous in my mind. Tell Konior we know they are much better, but we want him and all docs to strive for even better. I really believe they could eventually do totally natural if we expected/ demanded it from all of them. It baffles me why more on this board don't talk about wanting transplant improvements to continue and not stall. Better does not equal totally natural. Most of you don't seem to care., but some of us do and we should make our voice heard.

 

I'll get off my soapbox now.

 

Joe

 

I agree with some of what you are saying. In fact, Konior does exactly what you are asking for - he sorts the finest hairs from the coarsest and uses the former in the hairline. He spent nearly 17 hours on mine when he could have just selected any old hair and taken 10 less hours.

 

I get where you are coming from on some results where I too think the hairline could have been more refined. These tend to come from the recommended docs rather than the coalition ones. I guess that's why you pay a premium for the latter as they tend to employ more staff and put more time in.

[DrMoreHair]

Hairyjoe i'm just curious as to what makes you an expert on hairlines. I'd say your negativity about the whole thing might be clouding your judgement. A hair transplant is not going to take a 40 year old and give him the hair he had as a 20 year old. The question is - is the procedure going to make a dramatic difference in his appearance and is he going to look and feel better.

 

Whether or not Matt's ends look a bit more coarse than a "natural hairline" is really splitting hairs (pun intended). I've seen Matt's before and after pictures and I can imagine he is ecstatic from the awesome transformation he's had with Dr. Konior.

 

Should hair transplants continue to improve? Absolutely! Medicine and science should always be pushing the bar further and further. However, your comments about avoiding "Dr. Konior like the plague" because of Matt's results are nothing short of ridiculous

[Spanker]

Spanker, with all due respect, To say this is the best they can be and you shouldn't have one if you expect totally natural is ridiculous in my mind.

 

I don't think what I said is ridiculous at all. I said that considering what the best doctors are putting out, if it doesn't do it for you, you should skip the transplant. What is wrong with that? The results are not natural enough for your taste, so why would you get one? Patients are vetted just like doctors are, and when it comes to expectations vs what the very top doctors are able to provide, you probably do not currently meet the criteria of being a good candidate.

 

I'm not saying that you should not ask for more, or that wanting and waiting for a better transplant is a bad thing, but I'd be interested in your suggestions. Since you've been researching for over a decade, I would be interested in your contributions.

 

I know that Dr. Konior, and other top docs separate fine 1's and course 1's to soften the hair line. IMO, for a lot of patients, fine body hair on most people doesn't have a long enough terminal length to meet many styling options. Also, I think that when the area is most dense, it looks more natural, so until donor doubling becomes something that actually exists, we will be dealing with that problem as well. I don't think anyone would argue with you and say that HTs are perfect, but I can say that first hand mine is very natural and even my barbers can not tell unless I tell them.