SMP Consultation Request Results

[whacked]

Got this done at Good Look Inc first week of Sept.

 

Absolutely hated it.

 

The second I left, I could not WAIT to get it removed. I listened to the owner who said it will fade BIG time over next 4 weeks. Well, it didnt fade enough (only slightly) !!!

 

So, 4 weeks later now and Im having it removed with tat removal laser.

 

The tat removal laser was easier than I thought although $300/session and I will probably need 3 sessions

 

The tat came out EASY.....but since there is SO MUCH surface area, they cant help but miss spots, hence the need for more sessions.

 

Side notes

 

$4,700 for the tat-hair

$450 for RT flight

 

The owner was a defensive jerk who aqvoided me liek the plague onece I expressed dissatisfaction. Like how dare you not like my product (errrr WTH!!!)

 

I even told him ""look dude, I dont want my money back, I want OPTIONS on getting it removed"".

 

I looked like someone took a dang sharpie and outliend my hairline. I SPECIFICALLY told them I was MORTIFIED of the hairline looking too sharp. One ear out the other

 

He pretty much BLEW ME OFF from that point on (one I said I didn't like it)! HORRRRRIBLE customer serrvice. I was treated like a leper.

 

THANK GOD the tat laser worked! Very easily might I add.

 

Apparently, they use all organic products in their ink AND apply it close to the surface - both of these result in a very easy to remove situation (albeit, ~$1,000 in expenses)

 

Ive been HIDING in embarrassment for a month now. Awful experience

 

Oh well, live and learn

[Blake Bloxham]

Wow. Thank you for sharing your experience. I'm sorry it was such an awful endeavor.

[whacked]

yup

 

I've never been so happy to BE BALD

 

I was slightly self-conscience being bald. With that SHARPIE-hairlined procedure, I was FLAT OUT insecure to leave my house

 

Run for the hills if you are considering having this procedure

[Davis91]

Honestly, I have never gotten a good impression from GLI's customer service. I've written about it before--SO heavy on the sales and marketing tactics. And they have never (from what I know) come on these boards unlike many of the other SMP providers.

[azazelgs]

whacked,

 

i am so sorry for your experience , hope you got well after laser sessions.

 

Could you please tell more about it? Is that the hairline you didn't like it or the procedure overall? Any difference between sides and the top? Could you share us some pictures?

[scar5]

I SPECIFICALLY told them I was MORTIFIED of the hairline looking too sharp. One ear out the other

 

haha!!

 

Isn't that a surprise?? HT docs are often exactly the same - and yet they can be frank too. Makes it even harder to tell! Matter of fact my GP does it too.

 

Hey doc...this is the third time I've been here for this ear pain.

Doc: Yes, yes...we should be fine this time....

 

Seriously, wonderful post Whacked!. I am so disenchanted about hair and hair forums these days. But this post moved my bones in their grizzly little grave.

 

This hairline issue has been something I've been on about for ages, and also, about practitioners and their soothing balm for our doubts, our hopes, and the need for business. Without such suckers like us, there would be no business, or critically less!

 

So for the hairline. I got screwed too. Luckily, it is not too bad, but it definitely isn't good on one side!! That is the thing,, how come one side (kind of) works and the other didn't?? WTF?? How can something so precious to us (and expensive) be left to such arbitrary force, a rudderless and utterly random fate?? And what did the guy say when I asked him?? He said...'I just followed your hairline"

 

Not to mention my SMP is patchy and blue. (More on that in another post)

 

So here is the thing with the hairlines. They (the tatt companies) think that by following the 'natural hairline' it will look natural. Wrong!! SMP is an illusion. You cant put up a concrete wall along the edge of the woods, paint it green and hope people see woods.

 

So what is the solution? I don't know.

 

Thanks for cheering me up with your pain!! Seriously, thanks on behalf of those who are about to head of to see GLI and cancelled. Glad the thing came off, and ditto about GLI. MAtter of fact, I'm not impressed by the demeanor of any of them, nor am I impressed with the way Milena's (no diss on her whatsover, good luck to her) business was nicely parked into the forum. But that is the way it goes, and I am in the process of taking stock of things afresh, including the ever changing forum world, and reforming my attitude.

 

Not to mention, the marketing/web gambits and the results are not necessarily correlated.

 

Small hijack here..

PS. I apologize to readers for my post of June 26, when I was gushing too enthusiastically about the SMP I undertook. I lost my way to some extent at the time..and I had not intended to post about it until I was thoroughly convinced it either worked completely or didn't (my hand was forced) Forgive me..I realize how serious the problem is and the commitment involved, the desperation and deception and the frustration of failing. I can post pictures that show mind blowing improvement, and I felt on par with that improvement at times, but I can also show you ones that look.."eh--uh oh..what's going on there?"

 

It was definitely an improvement for me, but not quite the panacea I thought it would be..frustratingly so...not yet,, and judging by the color problems - especially in photographs and light that includes blue - It may never be. These pics can cause people to ask themselves, check you next time, and that equals self-doubt. But I am not out of stock yet. The fight goes on..

[trapps99]

i was skimming trough the discussions and i feel bad for the guy who had the procedure done at good look ink.... 5000 dollars to tattoo small dots is an absolute outrage. thank god this forum makes sure people dont get ripped of by GLI or NHI who are clearly taking advantage of people who are looking for a desperate solution.

on another note....I cannot wrap my head around the fact their is only one person in Italy that can tattoo small dots on a scalp properly.... im sure it looks great and she is fabulous at what she does, but others have to do a similar good job with this procedure....hopefully it catches on and the prices will go down.....

[Davis91]

These last posts are great. We really are in a crazy situation. Unproven treatment. Hard sales pitch. Little scientific data on technique or long-term effects. And MASSIVE mark-up. 1000 Euros for TEMPORARY ink.At last Dr. Rassman and Dr. Ron Shapiro have come on these boards to talk about the science that they know so far and Dr. Shapiro even noted 5 K was outrageous. But now a few more clinics want to offer this. Dr. Lindsey said he would be. He seems like an honest bloke with ethics. Dr. Lindsey, since you read these boards, how about it? Will you be offering the temp. ink and will you tell us and explain the reasoning behind your pricing system please?

 

By the way, we never heard again from Time to Do Something after GLI. Wonder what happened.

[Davis91]

1000 Euros for Temporary ink in the crown I meant from Melinea.

[trapps99]

i would say 100- 200 dollars an hour for this procedure sounds fair....the best tattoo artists in the world for PERMANENT INK charge around this price ( up to 300 im sure )

If I could be so bold as to ask any doctor, clinic, or independant to explain to all of us why tattooing dots that only last a year or so would be more expensive?!?!?!? I would love to hear a sensible, articulate and honest answer to make us feel we are being treated fair by these clinics and not just as people willing to spend anything for a solution ( albiet temporary one )

[Davis91]

trapps99

 

Ah, some of the docs will say, we are doctors (not GLI for example, but NHI), so you get it supervised by docs! (Even as their tecs do it, having just recently practiced the tat method on an orange). And so we will charge you for our massive supervisory labor!

[scar5]

I think we all feel the same way about costs (as Trapps suggests.."would you be so kind..."), and no they wouldn't because it wouldn't make any difference if we knew the exact details of the cost breakdown, would it?

 

I mean, supply and demand. In this case they got us by the short hairs (unless you BHT'd them!)

 

We don't trust the local tattoo parlor, when in fact, they are probably far more skilled in the dexterity department. So we go for the devil we know or think we know, the hair industry - a match for our vanity made in heaven. (sorry about that)

 

We certainly don't pay for the artistry. or the ink. or sitting in the chair. the white coats. the pics. It is simply a limited choice and the oligopoly tactics of old...suddenly an industry took off at 5000-6000 bucks and so that is the watermark. What dross, and yet how can we as improve that price? Every post we make about SMP pushes the price up - more noise, more hype. Damn. Or else we try to sink the ship with scuttlebut. And then what?

 

Now, I guess the laser SMP removalists are setting their dials just like the ink merchants have. And i hope it isn't too high, cause I'm heading their way at some point.

 

And speaking of ink. Can someone organize a gang of ninjas to bust into the (ink) well of knowledge, the guarded secretive void, that makes us dumber than dumb when trying to work out who uses the certain inks and why. But again, probably futile. Why would they tell us? And give away their livelihood. Somehow, the stakes have to really change. Something like napster has to come crashing through and give us the goose on ink.

[trapps99]

good point...

it should drive the point hjome that as many doctors come on forums and say they care, its all part of the PR process...they are ( maybe not all ) out for the money and thats it...and i dont blame them as its a business..that being proven from lack of responses

 

.but as i said more than 200 bucks an hour to tattoo dots is F*******G rediculous. guys should be going to the local tattoo shop and get them to add this to their work and charge less.....Let me guess....the doctors wont be able to supervise dots so it would turn out less than par???

 

still waiting for someone that does SMP to explain their costs

.....And we all know its supply and demand, also its marketing 101...people will pay anything when they are desprate for a solution.....

 

Also, spex i think had work done in Milan, could maybe you explain why her dots are far superior than anything we could get in Northamerica???

[Raphael84]

Hey guys,

I see that this post is getting pretty negative and somewhat unhappy at the price that may have been stated for SMP work with Milena in Milan. I suppose in some way, there may be some truth in what you say, "people will pay anything when they are desperate for a solution". In many cases the results for products/procedures are sub par and the money spent certainly isn't justified. But just like paying for a top Dr to undergo a hair restoration session, it is essential that you are choosing a clinic with proven results, a track record and good ethics that will stand by you as a patient, SMP with Beauty Medical seems to offer that quality. I haven't personally had any work done with the clinic but plan to in the new year and am currently in contact with them to arrange a date.

 

You ask "Also, spex i think had work done in Milan, could maybe you explain why her dots are far superior than anything we could get in Northamerica???" - Whilst I obviously cant answer for Spex, but some information that may be of interest for you, that you may or may not know, is that Milena has already been to such clinics as H&W, Dr Feller and more recently Shapiro Medical to perform her work on patients. As I understand, they have all been hugely impressed by her work, and there is the possibility of some following suit! If that isn't a solid enough endorsement, I'm not sure what is! If you guys want to hit the local tattoo joint and pay the money that you are mentioning, good luck with that. The ink/technique/equipment/understanding and skill set are somewhat different in the SMP procedure and therefore, may represent the difference in price.

 

As for the explanation at how we have arrived at this price, I suppose we shall have to wait and hope that somebody can chime in. But, if you are fully booked for the next 3 months, I think that suggests that the majority are more than happy to pay the quoted prices!

[trapps99]

Paying big bucks for surgery, top docs with artistic hairlines is not an issue, the better docs SHOULD charge more..

but again i will state my question/point....

How much skill and training does it require to tattoo small dots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and even if it doesnt end i can still ask cant i?

if someone could provide an answer like " well to tattoo dots as small as follicles we need a speciual tattoo machine which costs 10000, " or " the ink we use that lasts only one year is specially made in iceland and its very expensive" then id be satisfied....

im not looking to pay less for anything but I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT THE HUGE SKILL IS FOR THIS TATTOO PROCEDURE!!!

....

would you pay 1000 to have someone change your car battery? Becasue yo know it should NOT be that much ....

[trapps99]

rapgh.....

just re reading your post , and as you said the stigmas with this procedures are different, and we would all like to know what they are.......specifically...

it is NOT to bash anyperson whom performed the procedure, as im sure their work is excellent and a godsend.....but do you think it is wrong to inquire why something is so expenive?????

[Blake Bloxham]

good point...

it should drive the point hjome that as many doctors come on forums and say they care, its all part of the PR process...they are ( maybe not all ) out for the money and thats it...

 

I highly disagree.

 

Frankly if all the physicians we recommend on the forums were "in it for the money," they would be pushing easy money, unproven procedures, performing a ton of procedures each day, opening up chain clinics without any oversight of the physicians performing the work, purchasing unproven devices and allowing untrained individuals to use them to perform hair restoration, not performing repair procedures, etc, etc, etc.

 

I've personally interacted with a variety of physician in the hair restoration field, and while I can honestly say that some of the negative aspects you describe do exist in certain areas, our physicians really do care. These are the physicians inventing the tools, perfecting the processes, researching the new treatments, and performing the difficult, more complex (and less paying for the effort involved) procedures, etc.

[trapps99]

like I said....maybe not all

[trapps99]

oopps...sorry it didnt edit..

hair procedures have changed my life and will be forever thankful, but the PR machine does exist as we all know and us members in the dark not knowing the docs personally, we will always be skeptical...

its the SMP clincis and aspects i am debating here....i apoligize for the miscommunication...

on another note the members on this forum have always been helpful and have gotten me through the tough times......just so im clear my negativity is more so for debate.... not to bash

[scar5]

There is nothing to apologize for Trapps. Really, I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with the picture painted and expressing your dismay at the prices, which are outrageous, but so what. It is not negative. Just accept it. It is economic reality. Really guys, anyone who thinks doctors got involved in hair transplantation for anything other than money is seriously deluded. There is absolutely noting wrong with this, or accepting this. Within that framework - once inside, the very same people can be generous, frank, wiling to give far more away than they need too. etc.. in fact, the whole gambit. And they do. We have stories here that abound with doctors' generosity and genuine compassion.

 

Same applies for ink and SMP. Raphael, with all due respect, I don't think Milena's skill, ink technniques and endorsements - such as having visited H&W, Shapiro etc., have anything to do with this basic tenant whatsover.

 

Please, this is not a criticism. Just trying to keep our (my) feet on the ground here.

The prices for SMP are market driven and at this point it is a serous sellers' market That equilibrium needs us to be ignorant. That's right. We NEED to NOT know what is going on with ink and techniques. All we need to know is that it is someway 'Special' . Special inks, special depth, special this and special that. And that is where the buck has to stop, dead in it's tracks. NOw we will learn progressively more, but only, after certain critical stages have been passed, after a mass of demand has been captured and a particular supplier has been established. Looks like it is gonna be Milena at the way it is going, but I don't know at all.

 

In order for the 'perfect market' we need perfect knowledge. As consumers, this is being withheld from us. And why not?

 

Please don't degrade ourselves by apologizing. It is raw and harsh, the reality. I know you can laugh your ass off at me for saying this. And that is fine.

 

Why is Milena getting all these endorsements anyway? Something special about her? No diss whatsover here. And no negativity either. And no negativity when I say that the clinics that have started SMP started off for a quick buck and didn't pay enough consideration to the sophistication and delicate way one needs to market themselves to hair nerds like us. Hence, GLI, AC and NHI all have some crosses. And looks like Milena, through Jotronic and Spex and the trust they have built steadily for years in places like here, is heading in the direction of being hailed as a messiah!

 

Let's keep our heads' high. We need self-respect!! Whether they have ink on them or not!! This business is brutal. Looking like a fool is not good. And I should know.

[Raphael84]

I suppose you guys are looking for answers that I personally dont know so Ill leave you guys to debate this to the hill. You guys have every right to ask as many questions as you can possibly think of, in search of educating yourselves further and understanding the process better, but I think it could be conducted somewhat better. But, I suppose it is a forum.

 

"The prices for SMP are market driven" - The prices for almost every product and/or service in the world is/are market driven to some degree. It would be naive to think otherwise. Lets say for example sake, that if she could profit at half the cost, yet the majority of clinics throughout Europe are charging significantly more than this for far less skilled, less ethical and less safe work, then that would make no sense to do so. Thinking any other way is unfortunately naive.

 

"would you pay 1000 to have someone change your car battery?" - That says it all. With questions and comments such as that. Its not even worth answering! Would I spend several years looking for a solution and sending 800+ posts to educate me on the finer points of changing my car battery. Obviously not. But the insanely tough experiences that I have had through hairloss has motivated me to do such a thing in regard to understanding hairloss and my options to combat it. If you guys are looking for respectable answers from respectable people, then examples such as these do not help. Its ridiculous.

 

Any hair related product/procedure is undoubtedly seen as a luxury item/process. It is non essential and has no impact on the immediate health of your body. (You could argue somewhat regarding the affect on the mind however). It will always be priced with this in consideration.

[Raphael84]

I suppose you guys are looking for answers that I personally dont know so Ill leave you guys to debate this to the hill. You guys have every right to ask as many questions as you can possibly think of, in search of educating yourselves further and understanding the process better, but I think it could be conducted somewhat better. But, I suppose it is a forum.

 

"The prices for SMP are market driven" - The prices for almost every product and/or service in the world is/are market driven to some degree. It would be naive to think otherwise. Lets say for example sake, that if she could profit at half the cost, yet the majority of clinics throughout Europe are charging significantly more than this for far less skilled, less ethical and less safe work, then that would make no sense to do so. Thinking any other way is unfortunately naive.

 

"would you pay 1000 to have someone change your car battery?" - That says it all. With questions and comments such as that. Its not even worth answering! Would I spend several years looking for a solution and sending 800+ posts to educate me on the finer points of changing my car battery. Obviously not. But the insanely touch experiences that I have had through hairloss has motivated me to do such a thing in regard to understanding hairloss and my options to combat it. If you guys are looking for respectable answers from respectable people, then examples such as these do not help. Its ridiculous.

 

Any hair related product/procedure is undoubtedly seen as a luxury item/process. It is non essential and has no impact on the immediate health of your body. (You could argue somewhat regarding the affect on the mind however). It will always be priced with this in consideration.

[trapps99]

The prices for SMP are market driven and at this point it is a serous sellers' market That equilibrium needs us to be ignorant. That's right. We NEED to NOT know what is going on with ink and techniques. All we need to know is that it is someway 'Special' . Special inks, special depth, special this and special that. And that is where the buck has to stop, dead in it's tracks. NOw we will learn progressively more, but only, after certain critical stages have been passed, after a mass of demand has been captured and a particular supplier has been established. Looks like it is gonna be Milena at the way it is going, but I don't know at all.

 

 

 

 

Finally an answer in which someone gets what im talking about....

please try to pay attention Raph what we are discyussing, dont jump all over a maybe somewhat off the cuff simile that you think is rediculous....Rediculous i think is writing answers that dont even get what I am discussing.... Milena is at this or that clinic ....Ya no kidding we all know that and who cares?

 

I dont think i even metioned milena and asked what she charges....

Are you aware GHI charges almost 5000 for 5 hours work? You actually think thats ok??

and if it never changes thats fine....i would still like to hear others comments about it...oh wait lemme guess....market driven and thats how it is...

if youre the type that will pay or do anything you beat your hair issues so be it.....other dont like the fact we are being grossly overcharged for something most doctors nurses are getting trained to do....

 

"would you pay 1000 to have someone change your car battery?"

 

 

im sure if someone from europe said thats what wed charge for this new high tech battery you wouldnt question it and do it.....of course its not the same as hair loss but its a rough comparioson about PRICING

 

 

its also rediculous you dont get the point i am making....

to each his own....

[hairthere]

I have not had time to read through this entire thread. My family was badly effected by hurricane Sandy so my time is limited on the forum right now.

 

I will say that I have had SMP done by Milena, and I was so thrilled with the results that I decided to look into learning and practicing SMP myself. I have not had any training as of yet, but hope to begin this month.

 

Regarding pricing, $5k for the procedure does sound high. I will say, though, this is a very labor intensive procedure. I know many of you think, "Oh, it's just making little dots." But there is a fatigue, and skill factor involved here.

 

When I started researching SMP I consulted with someone who does permanent makeup (eyebrows, lipstick, nipples, etc.). She told me she and her partner started doing scalps and that they no longer offer it. When I brought up the massive market for it, she agreed, but stated it was just too tough on her wrist.

 

As I learn more about the process/procedure I will do my best to share. Please be patient, as I have a lot on my plate right now. I think this is a procedure that can help a lot of hairloss sufferers out.

[trapps99]

Hair there....my prayers go out to your family...Hope things will be ok

 

Very encouraging info about SMP.....im happy the results are pleasing people and will catch on.....

yes i will agree its very labour instensive.......( i still beive 250 an hour is LOTS of mony for ANY labour intensive job, but thats me..)

 

i remember as a youngster hauling limestone and patio stones all day for $6.50 lol

 

Good luck with your training........im sure you can help alot of us out with your future skills and make some good dough in the processs!

Cheers