I'm down to Hasson or Rahal (looking for LOTS of advice)

[MGZ]

I am 24 years old, I started losing it about a year and a half a go, in the last year it's just been rapid. I'm a heavy smoker and my diets always been pretty crappy.

Ironically I've always been an athlete and also used to do a lot of weight training, and then stopped 2 years ago.

 

I used to relax my hair ALOT, more than recommended, I used a product used for african american hair types that contained FORMALDEHYDE, a chemical that was pulled off shelves not too long ago. I feel this contributed to my loss a lot.

My father has all his hair, my mothers father started when he was 40. I'm using 5% rogaine foam, it's working minimal, I don't expect it to fill in my vortex.

 

So I'm down to Hasson and Rahal. From what I've seen, I like Rahals hairlines a lot, and NOT just because they are mostly densely packed, they just look natural. I've also seen a lot of better vortex's with Rahal. On the other hand I've seen great Hasson results and massive sessions, but Rahal just seems more intimate to me? And Montreal is closer to the Toronto area. Don't get me wrong, they are both admirable.

 

I really don't know what to do, I feel I'm too young and should wait until I'm at least 30, by then I should be completely bald. I have heard a lot of people here say that the vortex is the "black hole" of HT's. If I got strip HT I would want as much density as possible, the soccer hair I had when I was 20, probably 8000+ grafts. I would also try to QUIT smoking for at least a year to improve circulation and start working out again.

Financing will be necessary, I've looked at some plans but they still seem expensive.

Can anyone confirm what the minimum monthly payment is?

 

I used to do a lot of modeling, ha you should see me try and get jobs now. Things have really changed, less woman and different treatment that is not due to to lack of confidence, that is just a generic explanation for people who don't understand. I have plenty of confidence and personality. It's really depressing and as much as I move forward and get over it, something occurs that just brings me down and pisses me off.

 

Looking forward to all your responses, hope I get a lot. Please don't recommend propecia I am always susceptible to sexual side effects with the meds I've taken in the past.

Cheers!

 

I forgot to add, the classical music in most of Rahal's vids is a brilliant touch.

Edited August 9, 2011 by MGZ

[HARIRI]

Seriously talking, Rahal way much a better option for you. I chosed him after a long research, in fact Hasson was in my list too. Its just that the artistic touch of Dr. Rahal is so outstanding. I just had my hairline job with him last month. So go ahead and get it done by Rahal, he is the best IMHO and much affordable price wise as well.

 

By the way, Rahal isn't from Montreal, his clinic is located in Ottawa which is even much closer to your hometown Toronto. Good luck. I'm sure he will sort you out well :-)

 

And yeah forget about women if you take propecia cause it will kill your libido, just take saw palmetto 500mg and it will do the job orally and topically apply Rogaine 5% religiously so it will help you restore your mid scalp and crown hair maybe, but when it comes to hairline, you gotta do a HT, cause no medication works well with this area.

Edited August 8, 2011 by HARIRI

[MGZ]

Good to hear you had a great experience. The only thing I don't like is how there are barely any vortex pictures on Rahals website, they really emphasize the hairlines, I had to search youtube to find a vortex HT.

Do you mind sharing your pics and situation? You can send them to me email if you'd like.

Let me know!

[jessie1]

MGZ,

 

First of all I like your blunt honesty about how hairloss has effected you. Its great that you are a confident guy and why should hairloss steal that from you?.... I wish I knew the answer to that mate. For me, its 'peaks and troughs'.

 

Ok, back to business. In answer to your question, Rahal or Hasson. For me I agree with HARIRI, Rahal. I have seen excellent examples for both, however Rahal tops it due to the density he manages to achieve and on a consistent basis too.

 

If I was to travel to the states again I must say that Ron Shapiro would be my first choice.... just to throw a spanner in the works!!! But if you are choosing a Doc in your own country, Rahal is the man.

 

MGZ, without meaning to patronise you mate, why not try and get back into the gym and sports again. This may help fight off the 'depressing times'. Hairloss is complex and there are huge proven psychological effects, however keeping active and throwing a few weights around every now and again helps to improve my mood when I'm down. I respect that this will not work for everbody for a variety of different reasons.

 

You obviously want to tackle this head on and move on with your life. I think this is a good move, just be mindful of possible projected loss an try and keep some donor in reserve. Both of these are ethical Docs and will no doubt give you some very sensible expert advice.

 

Good luck

 

Jessie

[aim4hair]

MGZ, it's all up to you if you wanna get into the HT world at this age, but i believe 24 is too young for an HT IMHO. but i agree that with an HT you can buy some more time with more hair but you have to be extra careful and think about the consequences so that you don't end up regretting it later on.

 

I had a similar case, my hairline started receding when i was 24 and ever since i started to buzz my hair with a trimmer (no guards), I am 29 now, and to be honest i never thought about my hair during the last 5 years, i did not even know that such forums existed (buzzing your hair feels way better than having bald spot all over your head). Now, im considering an HT just because im kinda bored with the buzzed style and i really miss my hair and i want the option to wear it long, but even though im 29, some doctors are asking me to take very conservative approach since balding is progressive and i have to plan this right, right the first time.

 

You only have few options in my opinion; to use hair concealers which is a temporary solution, buzz your hair for now till you old enough for HT, or go with an HT.

 

If you decided to go with the last option, then both of the doctors you choose are GREAT. However, If i wanted to do strip, I'll probably go with Dr. Rahal.

 

 

Good luck...

[hairthere]

Firstly, hair straighteners did not cause your hairloss, so don't blame yourself. Straighteners might break hair at the shaft, but will not effect the root. Your MPB is due to genetics.

 

Regarding propecia, you said you had problems with sexual sides with other meds--which other meds? Propecia is known to work really well, especially in someone your age, and I would give it a shot for a at least a year. Besides, if you do experience impotence it will go away when you discontinue taking the drug.

 

Regarding your original question: both are amazing HT docs. But, considering the amount of grafts you require I would lean towards Hasson. And regarding artistry of the hairline, both are very skilled.

[jessie1]

MGZ,

 

The fact that you are young will in itself attract a certain amount of advice (and even concern), which is good of course. I considered the age factor prior to formulating my initial response, having studied your pics and other factors. I do believe that there has been some improvement since the minox and although the images are edited and do not reveal your face, the shaved look looks nice and tidy and you are blessed with a good facial structure to carry it off.

 

I was 27 when I had my first HT and I didn't need one. I got sucked in by some ridiculous sales patter which will not come into play with the two Docs that you have narrowed your search down to.

 

Once you go down the HT road you are 'in the tunnel' to a certain extent, depending on how aggressive the initial procedure is and your future requirements. For instance, I opted for 1000 grafts FUT in order to strengthen my hairline. Some would say this would be unethical for a 'fill in' job at such a young age. Furthermore, the scar was badly placed and ridiculously wide. I have been chasing this receeding hairline since in an attempt to catch up with badly positioned sporadic grafts. In fact, its probably a blessing in disguise that the yield on my UK HTs was so poor. Of course, I will never recover these lost grafts.

I would get a massive FAIL in the research department.

 

Hopefully none of this will be a concern for you as you are in GREAT hands. Forum members are right to be concerned about your age because of situations like mine. There are without doubt worse examples out there than mine. Furthermore, your situation and requirements are completely different.

 

Having seen your pics and noted some improvement from the meds, I respectfully think that you are possibly going to head for a high Norwood in years to come. Why wait? You have already said that the rapid hairloss has effected you badly. A good Doc will consider your age and individual characteristics and will carry out the procedure accordingly, with projection in mind. The fact that you have done some very sensible research and arrived at these great Docs will ease the burden.

 

The decision is yours to make. Putting myself in your position : I would go for it. Others may have different opinions. This is the beauty of the forum and I hope others come forward and help you in your decision.

 

Jessie

[Jotronic]

MGZ,

 

I'd like to thank you for considering Dr. Hasson and Hasson & Wong. It's always nice to know when people consider us for their restoration needs.

 

I'm somewhat confused by your motivation when it comes to what you call "the vortex". FYI, this is more commonly referred to as the crown and the pattern of growth is usually referred to as "the whorl".

 

In your initial post you mentioned

I've also seen a lot of better vortex's with Rahal

 

You then go on in your second post to say...

The only thing I don't like is how there are barely any vortex pictures on Rahals website, they really emphasize the hairlines, I had to search YouTube to find a vortex HT.

 

This would indicate that you have found one crown result by Dr. Rahal thus the confusion as to why you would say you've "seen a lot" of these results from Dr. Rahal indicating that these results influenced your decision regarding crown work.

 

Regardless, have you sent your photos and information in to both clinics for evaluation? I think it is safe to say that being only 24 years old, no history of using Propecia, and the degree of loss that you have that the first step would be to consider Propecia above all else. I know you said not to mention it but, hey, I'm going to because contrary to what some may say the chances of you getting side effects are minimal. AND if you do, not only will you be in the 1% range with others you will see the side effects in roughly 3 weeks at the most and you can simply stop taking it. Before stopping though I'd consider taking it three times a week to reduce or eliminate the sides and get at least some of the benefits. Personally, I feel that your stated lifestyle of eating bad, not exercising and smoking excessively, not to mention the accompanying depression, will do more to decrease your libido than Propecia ever will. Trust me on this as we've written in the neighborhood of 50,000 prescriptions for Propecia (Proscar actually) and we RARELY hear of side effects.

 

Your idea of waiting till you are 30 is wise because you are too young for crown work, you have no way to really stop the loss from continuing as Rogaine most likely won't do much, and you should see what Propecia can do for you. If you can maintain your existing hair then you should and the best way to do that is with Propecia, hands down. If you do not I guarantee your loss will continue and I already see the makings of a NW6 at least. The future pattern is clear, and without a strong preventative regimen, future loss is all but guaranteed.

[MGZ]

I have mild anhedonia so had some light anti depressants proscribed, all with the same sides as propecia for a small percentage of men, I was that percentage with every drug I tried, so I'm positive I will face the same with propecia. One drug actually made me almost completely impotent, luckily it went back to normal in a few days. Also articles like this scare me:

 

Merck Warned Europe That Propecia Causes Sexual Problems — but Not the U.S. | BNET

 

Of course some men confuse the side effects and blame the pill, but it's just hard to ignore. Asking doctors isn't comforting because they go strictly by statistics, like with everything else. Doctors in my city are pretty crappy ones, I always travel to London when I have a condition.

I don't work out anymore because I moved to the states and just don't have the time or money, of course I'd love to release those endorphins.

If I experienced persistent or irreversible sides, along with my anhedonia, it just wouldn't be pretty

 

Jotronic, I found several on youtube, just not on the website, and they all seemed consistent in the vortex area.

 

I'm really in a crazy position right now, the change has been drastic, I can't believe how it's impacted woman. Some say it's superficial of them, but in reality it's just preference and I have physical attributes I prefer in woman also, and not just the typical T&A ones.

 

 

ALso, I forgot to mention that I had taken 2 light 6 week cycles of decahedron when I was 18, I'm pretty sure it sped up the male pattern baldness. The cycles were very light, all the gains were kept and I didn't blow up like these juice heads you see. I was too stubborn to stack with something that prevented hairloss.

Edited August 8, 2011 by MGZ

[Jotronic]

To be clear, I wasn't questioning the ability of Dr. Rahal in the crown. I was simply pointing out the contradiction of your stated findings. It's all good.

 

I also was not quoting statistics. Again, I am speaking about finsteride based on our experience, which is extensive.

 

In my opinion, given your young age and your aversion to meds, you really should consider shaving your head, going back to the gym and see how that works out. You don't have to go to the gym if you don't have the time. You can do very effective exercises at home, even without weights, to get yourself back in shape.

[aim4hair]

I believe more than 1-2% face sexual issues with propecia, just search topics in this forum and other forums and you will be surprised at the number of people facing those issues, maybe the majority of those people face minor side and not severe ones, but in my opinion 1 to 2% is not accurate (i could be wrong though).

i would like to believe that propecia is safe to use and only 1 to 2% have issues with it, but taking a look on hair loss forums and hearing directly from people who tried it before, i just can't agree with that statistics (unless if people make up stories to scare ppl away). I am about to start a family and i just can't risk being one of those who face the sides specially that some people never recover completely even after quitting.

Actually this issue is what is making me so hesitant to step a foot into the HT world.... but im planning to try rogain foam and see how this gonna workout for me.

[HARIRI]

Propecia is posion. Read real patients reviews..

 

PROPECIA: Side effects, ratings, and patient comments

[HARIRI]

BREAKING NEWS: CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT FILED IN CANADA FOR PERSISTENT SEXUAL DYSFUNCTION FROM PROPECIA & PROSCAR Klein Lyons has filed a class action lawsuit against Merck Frosst Canada and its affiliated companies on behalf of Canadian men who used Propecia or Proscar and suffered continuing sexual dysfunction.

 

It says : (Class action filed against manufacturer of Propecia & Proscar Lawsuit filed for men who suffer sexual dysfunction after using hair loss drug. VANCOUVER, Jan. 24 /CNW/- A class action was filed today in the Supreme Court of British Columbia by Vancouver resident, Michael Miller, against Merck Frosst Canada and its affiliated companies. The lawsuit has been brought on behalf of Canadian men who used Propecia or Proscar and suffered continuing sexual dysfunction. Propecia and Proscar are prescribed as a cosmetic treatment for male pattern hair loss also known as androgenic alopecia. The product monograph discloses that some men may experience sexual dysfunction but states that the symptoms disappear after cessation of the drug. Mr. Miller, who is in his early 20s, was concerned when his hair started to thin in some areas. He was prescribed Proscar which he hoped would stop his hair from thinning. After about a month of use he noticed a drastic change in his behaviour, "I lost my interest in sex and I felt anxious in social situations for no particular reason," he says. While on the drug, his symptoms of sexual dysfunction increased as the months passed. When he could no longer bear the side effects, he stopped using Proscar but these symptoms didn't go away: "My sexual functioning has not recovered, I have seen specialists and have tried treatments but nothing has worked," says Mr. Miller. According to Mr. Miller's lawyer, David Klein)

[MGZ]

I don't believe the facts either, it's clearly affecting more people.

If I started propecia I would probably be smooth sailing at first, but years down the road it is just inevitable, I don't care what anyone says. I'm not bashing the drug, I'm sure it works for a lot of people but I just can't take the risk right now, I know my body.

 

Anyways, another key reason I want to hold of until I'm 30 is because of technological advancements in procedures. They've come a long way, but I hope in the next 5-6 years the strip will be obsolete, and hairs can be cloned bypassing any scars. On the contrary these procedures are probably going to be double the cost.

 

I've seen a lot of goo FUE done, but strips always seem to have better results.

 

Can anybody who has had a HT verify how little someone can finance the procedure at a monthly rate? I couldn't imagine paying more than 150 a month, why with rent, groceries, and traveling.

[Jotronic]

Harriri,

 

Poison? How do you explain the medication's success for the past 15 years? I'm scared to think how I'd look now if I didn't take it for the past nine years. Just because some patients have an issue with it doesn't mean it is poison. What about medications like, oh I don't know, penicillin? Some people are allergic to it and can die. Even though it has saved countless millions of lives would you call it poison because some people have side effects that can kill them?

 

To tell someone to take up to 500mg of Spiro a day is far more dangerous than the MINUTE potential for having trouble in the sack. You should also tell the OP that Spiro is listed as potentially unsafe for unborn children. If the OP has high potassium levels then taking Spiro and actually make these levels jump which can be fatal due to potential cardiac rhythmic side effects. I've never heard of anyone dying from taking Propecia. Did you read where the OP has had issues with depression? Spiro can also have adverse reactions to some anti-depressants. There are other issues to consider but you get the point.

 

MGZ,

 

Believe what you want but I'm telling you this for your own good but ultimately waiting it out is by far the best thing you can do. If you start saving now then in six years you might not need to finance anything:) However, the minimum costs can vary from finance company to finance company. I believe Patientlink however will craft a payment plan based on what you want to pay but of course credit scores and down payments etc. will affect this.

 

I wish you luck in your journey.

[aaron1234]

Jotronic is right. Propecia is not poison. That is ridiculous. I wish I got on it sooner. It did nothing to hurt my libido. At 24 you absolutely must give it a try for a year before doing any kind of transplants.

[aaron1234]

As for Rahal vs. Hasson - they are both great you can't go wrong with either of them. But they will probably be hesitant to transplant a 24 year old not on the meds. Sooooo... like I said, get on 'em. If they bother you then at least you know.. but I doubt they'll bother you. They'll likely thicken up your crown quite a bit.

[orlhair1]

Propecia is definitely not poison.....I have had zero side effects from it. It has potential side effects like any drug, By far, the vast majority of people on it have no side effects. Talk to any of the reputable clinics who have prescribed it over the years, including Hassan & Wong and many others. I got it from my family doctor who has been prescribing it for years and advised me he has never had a patient have any side effects from it at the dosage used for hair. Again, I understand some people do have it, but it is an extremely small minority of people and if you have them, just try a lower dose or get off of the medication.

[MGZ]

I will have to think it over more.

Why is it necessary to be on meds after a transplant, is MPB just as likely after the transplant? I guess that would make sense. If I had crown repair and didn't take any meds would it still happen by my 30s?

[MGZ]

Also, I would like to have that it's been 2 years and I stilll have premature ejaculation because of meds I used to take, as well as watery semen.

This is another reason that is making me think twice.

 

 

 

Btw, would the procedure be done by Rahal himself? I keep reading about some asian dude who works with him thats great?

 

This to me is what sold it for Rahal, with such few grafts :http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=993

That is pretty much my pattern in a couple years.

Edited August 9, 2011 by MGZ

[hairthere]

MGZ, understand that a HT will never give you the same density you once had with your native hair. It provides an illusion of density. That's why if you do have some native hair it's best to hold onto it as long as possible, and the meds will help you do that (every bit counts). At your age they may even help you re-grow some. The good news is that HT grafts are permanent--the bad news is that we all have limited donor supplies (until cloning hopefully becomes a reality).

 

As far as sexual sides with finasteride, I have never heard of premature ejaculation being an issue. Some guys experience impotence, decreased ejaculate and decrease in libido. As already mentioned those sides occur in a very small percentage and subside after stopping the drug.

 

Regarding "some asian dude" that works for Dr. Rahal, perhaps it's one of his techs? Dr. Rahal is the only surgeon at his clinic as far as I know.

[NeedAdjusting]

MGZ, I also narrowed it down to Dr's RAHAL and HASSON, I am opting for and am about to book a session with Dr. Rahal due to the following reasons:

 

- I am going to focus on my hairline and temples

- H&W still haven't provided me with consultation feedback and this slow response time, to me, raises concerns

 

If you do go with Rahal, I would recommend you visit him since you're a few hours away and discuss an appropriate hair line location having your age and future in mind.

 

If you are going to focus on your crown, you should further analyse the H&W option, based on the large # of grafts achievable.

[hairthere]

needadjsuting: You made a great choice in a HT surgeon. Dr. Rahal was one of my top 3 choices. I have to say in terms of hairline design, I think Hasson and Rahal are equals. Keep in mind that most top HT docs will work closely with you in designing a proper hairline.

[NEWHAIRPLEASE]

I chose Rahal after much research. Dr Rahal does all the donor removal and incision sites. I was informed he is in and out of the room all day during graft placement.

[aaron1234]

MGZ,

 

You WILL continue to bald after a transplant. Hair loss is progressive. But propecia will help you keep the hair you have. So don't wait until after a surgery to start. Take it for at least a year before surgery, if not two in your case since you are so young.

 

And don't psyche yourself into getting side effects. Many doctors state that the vast majority of patients who have side effects were the ones with the most anxiety about taking the drug in the first place. The mind can be very suggestive.