Dr. Bernstein vs. Dr. Lindsey?

[Neal0282]

I know they are both world-class HR surgeons but I cant see to find any "personal" blog experiences with Dr. Robert Bernstein. I have seen a few on Dr. Lindsey but I was wondering if anyone out there has personally done a HR surgery with Dr. Bernstein. I am scheduled to meet with him in July. I would classify myself as a NW II. See pics. I would like to restore my frontal hairline. Any ideas on how many graffs? Also, is there not a way to determine for future hair loss (my microscopically looking at the follicular units)?

 

Thanks for all your feedback.

[Dutch]

You need to see past patients' hairloss stories & personal pics- that's very important for me. That's how I decided on who to pick as my surgeon.

I would say 1500-2000 grafts.

How old are you and are you using propecia or/and mino?

There is a way- the surgeon would be able to see whether you have hairs that are miniaturising & dying slowly. They have a micro scope that shows you the follicles on a monitor screen.

Edited May 30, 2011 by Dutch

[Neal0282]

Thanks Dutch. I am 29 years old. I used Propecia about 4 years ago (only for about 9-12 months) and then stopped. I didnt like the idea of having to be on prescription med's for the rest of my life. Also - thanks for the heads up on the microscope to determine future baldness... that is what I thought. I went to Dr. Lindsey and he said that there was no way to determine future baldness or receeding hairline progression... that is what made me a little hesitant because I thought there was a way to tell.

[Dutch]

No problem at all.

We're at a similiar age. I know what you mean about meds. I hate the idea of using them too, who doesn't but propecia is important for maintaining some of what you have. It's easier to maintain than it is to regrow.

 

No one can predict hair loss for the future but surgeons can see which hairs are miniaturising or not. I was shown on a screen which hairs were thinning & on the ropes. I'm not undermining Dr Lindsay, he's excellent.

[Neal0282]

This really helps. You are right about Propecia. I will see what the doctor says. And yes... dr. Lindsey is great. I was just a little confused when he said that there was not a way. I am sure I just asked the question wrong. Curious... who did you end up going with? Do you have any pics? Thanks again.

[Dutch]

I think he may have misinterpreted your question maybe.

Propecia is important and so is mino. I used mino for about 6 months- I wasn't patient and gave up on it. The hairline is too far gone for mino anyway but will hit again but will buy the mino foam or the 10-15% one from MOPC for example. That's less sticky than the lotion.

Anyway, I will be going for surgery in Sept with Dr. Hasson or Dr. Rahal. I've done so much research, I've made my mind up and will definitely provide pics then!

[Spanker]

I think a lot of it is what do you want your hairline to look like? Are you leaning FUE or strip?

 

I would agree, 1600 to 2000, depending on what you are wanting to do with your hairline.

[TC17]

What Dr. Lindsey said regarding future balding is accurate. There is no way to predict a person's future balding pattern. ANY doctor that tells you otherwise is lying. I think this misconception with microscopic analysis stems from Dr. Rassman's blog, but that's a topic for a different day. The fact of the matter is that if a doctor examines hair under magnification, he will be able to see those hairs that are presently miniaturizing. To the naked eye, those hairs may appear to be healthy, but in reality, they are destined to fall out. So, in one way, you can say that the doctor is predicting future hair loss, but only to a limited extent. The doctor cannot predict whether hairs that are not showing miniaturization will always remain that way. Like Dr. Konior said, even the worst NW 7 had a time when nobody could look at his scalp and accurately predict his future hair loss. While I understand the desire for some sense of certainty with our hair loss, we have to remember that a simple microscope is not a tool that allows a doctor to predict the future.

Edited May 30, 2011 by TC17

[Neal0282]

Thanks. I really appreciate the help. Right now, Dr. Lindsey and Dr. Bernstein are my two top. I thought Dr. Lindsey was awesome. I just wanted to clear up that one issue so THANKS! As for my hairline, i would like to get it close to what it looked like before, but I know that I cant go too low because it might look a little disfigured when I get older.

[aaron1234]

Count your lucky starts. You still have a good head of hair. Just get back on Finasteride. You have a lot of hair right now to save.

[Dr. Glenn Charles]

Both great Hair Restoration physicians. Your posting of what Dr. Lindsey told you about predicting future hair loss and other subjects confirms that he is a real honest guy. Doing what he should do, telling you the way it is, not just telling patients what they want to hear. I would imagine that you will hear something very similar from Dr. Bernstein. Good luck. At some point you are going to have to make a decision with your gut feeling.

[Neal0282]

Thank you Dr. Charles. I truly appreciate your post. Actually, thank you all. I have received a lot of insight today - what a great forum! And yes, you are right... at some point I will have to make a decision based on my gut. I really liked Dr. Lindsey, but I just think it is always good to get a second opinion, with a surgery of this magnitude, you know. No matter what kind of surgery, I think its important to just consult with one more doctor, just to give you peace of mind. But again, thank you all for everything. Any other feedback is of course welcomed!

[corvettester]

I know they are both world-class HR surgeons but I cant see to find any "personal" blog experiences with Dr. Robert Bernstein. I have seen a few on Dr. Lindsey but I was wondering if anyone out there has personally done a HR surgery with Dr. Bernstein. I am scheduled to meet with him in July. Any ideas on how many graffs? Also, is there not a way to determine for future hair loss (my microscopically looking at the follicular units)?

 

Neal,

 

Bernstein has my vote without reservation. In fact, I don't even think it's proper to compare Bernstein to Lindsey.

 

Bernstein probably has about three times as much experience as Lindsey. He is a pioneer of the HT industry, as well as an established authority who has published countless scientific and clinical research studies and won numerous awards and accolades from the highest echelons of the hair restoration and medical community. The list goes on…

 

Both Dutch and TC17 are right about predicting future loss. However, if I understand correctly, Bernstein argues that although he cannot definitively predict future loss, he can reasonably estimate a person’s potential for loss.

 

I think that a lot of it is based upon the personal experience Bernstein has had over the years—it’s not exactly something on which a longitudinal study can or has been done. In addition, Bernstein factors in individual variables among patients such as age, current pattern, family history, hair and dermatological characteristics, etc... I’m sure he looks at the whole picture before making his “prediction.”

 

As a pioneer and founding father of the industry, I bet he's seen enough action to know that when a person has a certain amount of miniaturization in a certain area, in a certain way, at a certain age, he can give a pretty damn good estimate as to what is going happen further down the road. With definite certainty, of course not—with a high likelihood, I think so.

 

Bernstein has probably forgotten more about HT than most doctors will ever know. The guy has been looking at heads of hair long before Lindsey ever came on the scene. For this reason, among others, I have a lot of faith in Berstein's ability.

 

Furthermore, he is also considered one of the most conservative doctors in practice. I personally know two people who he rejected because they didn't have enough balding or because he didn't think it would progress enough... if that isn't integrity, then I don't know what is.

 

Now this may not be something a 29 year-old, NW2 who is feeling a little insecure about his minor recession may want to hear, but it is something you ought to consider (I should know, I was a 29 year-old, NW3 when I got my HT 7 months ago). Bernstein isn’t going to pack 4,000 grafts into your hairline, but he is going to give you a no nonsense analysis of your current, as well as your likely future, condition. That is why he charges $175 for a consultation—so he doesn’t have to waste his time or yours!

 

However, unfortunately there is no shortage of doctors who will tell you whatever you want to hear, and claim that they can give you whatever you want—for a price!

 

To conclude, since you’ll be NYC this July consulting with Bernstein, why not see a few other top docs such as True & Dorin, Wesley, Unger, Schweiger or Epstein. Why stop at a second opinion and not get a third or fourth? A good HT is one that has been well researched. Good luck on your journey.

 

 

Corvettester

Edited May 31, 2011 by corvettester
Spelling, Grammar, Style, Clarity. I spelled Dr. Lindsey's Name Wrong (sorry about that).

[Neal0282]

corvettester,

 

Thank you. By the way, your hair proceedure looks like it went great. Big difference... I am sure you are very pleased with the results. And yes, I think you are right. If I am going to be in NY that day, why not see a few others. I am trying to set up an appt with True & Dorin as we speak! Thanks again.

[corvettester]

Neal,

 

If you end up going to T&D for a consultation, ask to meet Peter and Eyal. They've both had HTs by T&D and have wonderful results to boot.

 

Corvettester

[Neal0282]

Corvettester,

 

Just spoke to Eyal. Got an appt with Dr. True in July! Thanks for the help.

[Dr. William Lindsey]

A patient of mine emailed me this thread..so here's my 2 cents.

 

1. TC 17 and Dr. Charles are correct. Noone can predict future hairloss. If I could predict the future with any certainty, I'd have made millions in investing and would be skiing in South America today rather than working. Anyone who can predict hairloss consistently is either full of it, or lying, or making an educated guess with more confidence than I have.

 

2. Corvettster is correct. Dr. Bernstein was looking at heads long before I was on the scene. I think he's a top notch doctor. I personally feel that for the vast majority of patients who come to our office, we can offer top notch work. Is it better, worse, or the same as Dr. Bernstein? I would leave that to the informed patient to decide. I do not think its likely that you will get a poor result any more likely from either of us...or from any of the top doctors for that matter. A doctor can't please everyone all the time, but ought to be able to please most people most of the time. I think we do that and I think Dr. Bernstein does that.

 

3. Corvettster is also correct. Have as many consultations as you want before you commit. While I don't recall you from the pics you put up, you clearly have time to make an informed decision...take all the time you want.

 

4. If you have narrowed it down to 2 or 3 doctors based on their results and track record, and their all about the same...pick the one you feel most confident in and who you think it will half way enjoyable to be around for 8 hours. And if you meet their staff, ( I don't know if you met mine), see if you feel they are decent enough to tolerate for 8 hours...

 

5. I'm glad you are doing your research. I personally would rather lose a case to a coalition doctor than someone just picking up hair after a weekend course or 2....

 

6. Corvettster. I'm LindsEy, not Ay. That is my only real disagreement with what you posted above. I may not agree with all of your post, but I think you have this guy's best interest in mind and everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

 

7. I probably won't check back on this thread.

 

I wish you the best whether you come to me or go to someone else. I'd like your business, but get all the info you need and make an informed decision and good luck to you.

 

Dr. Lindsey McLean VA

[bonkerstonker]

I find this very interesting that the doctors above are not very confident with regards to future hair loss as when i've spoke with Dr Hasson about the issue he was extremely confident about most peoples future hairloss. With regards to a nw5 shape he said to me in person and i've seen him write on a forum ...

 

"The fundamental issue, as you know, is that we must select permanent DHT insensitive hair. How do we determine which hair this is? Before hair is lost to androgenetic alopecia it undergoes changes in both structural and physiological properties. Structurally the hair shaft gets fine - through a process called miniaturization - and the growth phase of hair cycle shortens. The donor area is closely examined with magnification specifically for the presence of these miniaturized follicles. It remains controversial but it is normal to have up to 10% of the follicles to appear miniaturized even in the permanent zone. These follicles are not undergoing true miniaturization but are healthy "young" follicles in the early anagen phase".

 

 

"The upper border of the permanent zone is in some patients very well defined and sometimes it can almost be seen as a distinct line where bald scalp or miniaturized hair meets mature permanent hair. Many years of experience has taught us that for all intense and purposes this line remains fixed throughout an individual's life. Where there is a more gradual transition from miniaturized hair to permanent hair it is very difficult to determine the exact location of the transition from permanent to DHT sensitive hair."

Edited May 31, 2011 by bonkerstonker

[ej]

This is an interesting topic . My opinion is that the balding process is progressive , every norwood 5 - 6 was once a 2- 3 , I honestly dont think anyone can say with certainty how far the process will go to before it stops .

 

Dr Lindsey, i think your post was quite modest if you dont mind me saying so , im aware you have a background in facial plastic surgery I wonder if the procedures overlap slightly from time to time as I have seen some excellent results of scar repair and plug repair from your clinic , and also excellent placement of grafts to achieve a `densely packed ` result , I am certain your results are up there among the very best !

 

Dr Bernstien also has produced excellent results one of the first books I read on hair restoration was written by Dr Bernstien and his colleague Dr Rassman , both produce excellent results .

 

I agree with the earlier posts as your in NYC in July consult with a few Drs and definantly get a 3rd or 4th opinion , Dr Feller is worth a consult while your in town alongside Drs True and Dorin all produce excellent results

 

I would definantly plan for the future and take your time!! and meet as many patients in person as possible!! as Dr Rassman once said " A good decision today is a good decision tomorrow "

 

Regards

 

ej

[corvettester]

2. Corvettster is correct. Dr. Bernstein was looking at heads long before I was on the scene.

 

3. Corvettster is also correct. Have as many consultations as you want before you commit. While I don't recall you from the pics you put up, you clearly have time to make an informed decision...take all the time you want.

 

6. Corvettster. I'm LindsEy, not Ay. That is my only real disagreement with what you posted above. I may not agree with all of your post, but I think you have this guy's best interest in mind and everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

 

7. I probably won't check back on this thread.

 

Dr. Lindsey,

 

My apologies for the misspelling of your name. I don't know if it was spellcheck or personal error. It won't happen again. Out of respect, I went back and edited my original post.

 

By the way, it's CorvettEster, with an "E"... not Corvettster! Looks like we both have issues with spelling! LOL!

 

 

CorvettEster

[Dr. William Lindsey]

You are correct again.

 

We had a patient last week in for a 1 month check who'd just restored a '63 ?stingray....sold it for 100k. I suspect he'd have caught my mispelling too.

 

Dr. L