Armani says he can transplant up to 110-120 fu per sq cm

[Bleachcola12]

is this even possible due to our old native hair growing in at about 80-100 fu per sq cm?

[Bleachcola12]

is this even possible due to our old native hair growing in at about 80-100 fu per sq cm?

[wantego]

Originally posted by Bleachcola12:

is this even possible due to our old native hair growing in at about 80-100 fu per sq cm?

 

I honestly dont know the answer. Maybe it depends on how large an area. How many grafts are you looking for? Good luck with your HT!

[THINinHOUSTON]

what do most docs put in on the high end? I haver looked at my HT up close and dont know how you could do 60?

[Dr. Timothy Carman]

Just because you CAN do something (and in this case I am HIGHLY skeptical) doesn't mean you should; the blood supply in that square cm is the limiting factor in how many grafts will survive. In our experience it is HIGHLY unlikely that one will get the usual 97-100% survival rate seen in conventional densities (40-50 FU/cm2, typically)

when placing 100-120 FU/cm2. (IF one could even technically do this......)

IMHO, in attempting this density, you are going to lose a great deal of the patients precious donor supply due to low survival rates.

[badger_01]

It is generally believed that it takes only 50-60 fu/sq cm to give the appearance of fullness, so u should look at conserving your donor hair for future surgeries. Even if your hairloss is minimal at this time, your donor supply is limited and needs to last a lifetime!

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

He also states that the Chupacabra are real

[thanatopsis_awry]

Pshhh...all this talk about "finite donor", "graft survival", "yield"...pshhhhh.....just hop in the chair, pick a logical # and double it for grafts, and get ready to take some vauge or studio-lighted photos. Badabing badaboom.

[Smoothy]

Dido Dr. Carmen's input.

I'm sure this can be done with the advancement of high magnification equipment, but probably should not-- blood supply is critical for graft survival and regrowth-- (its like planting too many flowers in a small area-- not all will grow). Also, even with the highest magnification, cross graft transection will occur. If you want that many g.p.sqcm then plan a couple of sessions.

 

SMOOTHY

Dr. Shapiro

Propecia/Rogaine xtra

MSM/Saw Palmetto

Nioxin Shampoo line

Zrii 3oz daily

[Dr. Timothy Carman]

Originally posted by Smoothy:

If you want that many g.p.sqcm then plan a couple of sessions.

Exactly.

[Clive McQuire]

Just a question as a new boy on the site!!

 

If your hair was only 100 fu's per cm2 before you lost it , then why would you want to exceed this on a transplant?? when you know you have a limited number of grafts to repair whatever nature deals you out at the end of your mpb!!

 

Seems a strange boast to me!!

[T.C]

I thought that a good donor density is classed as 85 fus per cm2.sounds like sales patter $$$ to draw patients in and then leave them dissapointed when its not possible.

[Bleachcola12]

Dr. Carman,

 

As I read yesterday, Dr. Rassman of Los angeles, stated the hair that we had before we lost it is about 97 fu per sq cm. Do you agree?

[Dr. Ricardo Mejia]

Here is a good visual test everyone can do at home.

 

Take an index card and draw a 1 cm by 1 cm square. Take any needle, knife or tool you have at your disposable to create a small incision in the card. Make as many as you can in that one box and see how many you get. You will also notice the more you try to do the smaller the nick has to be. If you have access to 18, 19, 20, 25 gauge needles try it for each one and see the difference.

 

The smaller the nick, the skinnier the single hair graft. Skinnier grafts without surrounding tissue have higher risk of dessication or drying and death.

[Dr. Timothy Carman]

Bleachcola12-

Yes, as per Dr. Rassman, that is generally accepted as a "normal" density value.

[Dr. William Lindsey]

I just had a patient who in my opinion, needs about 1200 singles dense packed among his reasonable existing hairline (transplanted 3 times by Dr down the street), tell me that my suggestion was way different than his internet consultation with Dr. A. And that the patient really wanted 120 grafts per cm. I guessed that he has about 35 now, of thick transplanted hair, and I recommended trying to double that with a procedure by me, trying to avoid injuring the follicles that he has.

 

Unfortuately, he really felt that a 3000 graft Dr. A procedure, advertised to him as 120/cm, is a better choice for him.

 

The patient is a nice fellow, and I did his nose about 4 years ago, thus we have an existing relationship and he told me that he came back because I was "up front" about his rhinoplasty years ago.

 

But today at least, being "up front" lost out to 120 grafts/cm.

 

Dr. Lindsey McLean VA

[celeb hair vet]

Dont do it.

 

Go see Hasson in Vancouver.

[ShavedDethMonk]

Looks like people are not planning for the future, as many people have suggested. Doing simple math if a person were to keep to 60 grafts per centimeter they would be able to cover TWICE the scalp area than going at 120 grafts/cm. So they would exhaust their supply before possibly covering all the area they want to cover over lifetime of progression of MPB.

 

I would rather have more coverage and moderate density than excess density (that may not all survive) and less coverage.

 

Though I dont know how many grafts a person can use from a donor area in their lifetime 7500 seems like a good number to play with.

 

7500 life time grafts / 120 grafts/cm sq = 62.5 cm sq coverage.

 

7500 life time grafts / 75 grafts/cm sq = 100 cm sq coverage.

 

7500 life time grafts / 60 grafts/cm sq = 125 c, sq coverage.

 

These numbers didnt really need to be shown as they can almost be done in one's head but it illustrates a point that some may want to consider when in fact more density doesn really give much more illusion of density. If a lesser density looks dense why waste a finite supply.

 

SDM

[Mountinvan]

What do you estimate the averag person has in space (cm squares) outside the horeshoe?

[Smoothy]

You can do a lot of things and that doesnt mean you should! The graft survival of 100 g/p/sq is lower than saw 50 g/p/sq. You have higher risks of transections and longer placement as it take more time to place grafts this close which increases the time the grafts are being harvest (basically setting out longer).

Also the Density isnt visually much greater over 50-60 versus higher amounts thus you could be wasting potential viable grafts that might be needed in the future with further HL.

 

SMOOTHY

Dr. Shapiro

Rogaine xra-Propecia

MSM/Zinc/Saw Pallmetto

Enlyten anti-oxidant daily

[ShavedDethMonk]

Originally posted by Mountinvan:

What do you estimate the averag person has in space (cm squares) outside the horeshoe?

 

Without shaving my head and drawing little 1cm x 1 cm squares on my head with a marker I wouldnt be able to guess. People say I have a big head to so I may be above the 50th percentile in head size this probably scalp size as well

 

I suppose if a person were REAL bored they could take a cloth and put it on there head tightly and outline the scalp area outside the 'horse shoe' line. After which you could lay the cloth out and figure out a grid of 1 cm x 1 cm squares and figure it out ... but I have too many chores to do something like that

 

I tried to look up the answer to the average surface area of the adult human head and I didnt find it within 3 minutes so I give up. I did however find an interesting article from a Forensic Science program that uses the effect of hair on the deposition of gun shot residue as a means to decipher how a person was shot. Anyhow, within the article it states that human hair density ranges from 0-400 hairs/cm which seems quite high. So 100 grafts/cm would mean that each of them would be quads!! Id like that head of hair!

 

SDM

[latinlotus]

It is generally accepted that the density of the DONOR region is about 85 fu/cm2. The density at the top or front of the head is normally a bit lower, around 50-70 fu/cm2. Therefore, transplanting at say 110-120 fu/cm2 makes no sense whatsoever.

 

Dr. Armani or his reps can say what they want, but what is important is the growth rate. So far i have not yet seen one result approaching that density from them or from any doctor. It is all marketing.