List of doctors who consider LLLT to be Quackary

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Thank you for relating your experience Dr. Gabel. We need more outspoken physicans to stand against quackary. The public needs our leadership and guidance to counterbalance the massive hype coming from the LLLT industry.

 

Our list of "good guys" grows every week. Those doctors who join this list have demonstrated a true commitment to their profession and their patients. Each and every one of them could use LLLT in their practice to generate more money from their hair-hungry patients, but instead they restrain themselves and act honerably by rejecting LLLT and all that it stands for. I am pround to say that the doctors on this list are my colleagues.

 

Welcome to the list Dr. Gabel.

[Dr. William Lindsey]

I was just reminded of a similar "scam" in facial plastic surgery.

 

A few years ago, I shared an office with a plastic surgeon who claimed to be a pioneer in laser treatment of wrinkles. He had a large practice and was quite successful with body work (breast/lipo/tummy tucks).

 

Anyhow, he did a laser evaluation for a company using their device on maybe 10 patients, several of whom worked at the office. None of us could tell that any cosmetically significant change had occurred. He did back it up with histology showing more collagen in the treated areas.

 

Coincidentally, I did facelifts on a couple of the staff, and low and behold, but the 2 postop pics that made it to the meeting were the patients that I facelifted! Their scars were not noticable, and indeed it looked like the laser did a miracle. He never revealed that they had a facelift in addition to the laser. The non-facelifted laser patients never had their pics used; but I am guessing that the company was not hurt by these 2 ladies' nice result.

 

I didn't find out about the details of the presentation until long after the events had passed.

 

Just goes to show the value of these educational sites in exposing treatments with no scientifically proven efficacy (other than money to the provider) such as LLLT.

 

Dr. Lindsey McLean VA

[Bill - Seemiller]

There is clearly a list of doctors who support and don't support laser therapy for hair restoration. However, I'm not so sure how a list of doctors on either side proves whether it works or not.

 

Frankly, I think the technical debates are much more enlightening.

 

Bill

[DocGMarcovici]

As a fellow who's been around the block a time or two with surgical hair restoration drug trials, as well as someone with more than a passing familiarity in basic science research, there are several concerns that I have with the purported use of laser technology to stimulate hair growth.

 

First, the underlying basis for mechanism of action for lasers as hair growth agonists appears neither well articulated nor well thought out. To begin with, there are good reasons that a cut heals faster than a burn.

 

The type of cytokines and chemokines recruited in remodeling a burn injury (this is the way that most lasers work) do not lend themselves to accelerating wound healing. Second, there is no hair growth pathway that I can think of wherein a laser could exert a positive influence. Actually quite the opposite is true.

 

Most burn wounds induce upregulation of inflammatory markers such as TNFa and NFkB. I could be mistaken, but it seems to me that trying to enhance wound healing by upregulating these markers (i.e. by introducing high energy/light/heat into a biologic system) is a little like trying to put out a fire by spraying gasoline.

 

This is relevant inasmuch as recent data supports the notion that the dermal papilla is a repository for pluripotent stem cells which are key to skin homeostasis and wound remodeling.

 

Furthermore, as other far more knowledgeable contributors to this post have already observed, the supporting clinical data for LLLT are less than robust.

 

Lasers certainly have a place in medicine. However, I cannot see LLLT for hair growth as a particularly good use of the technology.

 

Geno Marcovici, Ph.D.

[Old Baldy]

Boy, I don't know Bill.

 

These are the pros and since alot of them here are saying, for all intents and purposes, to "forget about it", then I'm going to "forget about it".

[Desperately Seeking Hair]

Maybe if I shine a flashlight on my head I'll see some new hair growth

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Thank you for posting your skepticism Dr. Marcovici. I believe you are the first Ph.D. to express an opinion.

 

Unfortunately, none of the LLLT doctors nor LLLT industry representatives will come onto this thread to point out where you may be mistaken. Be ready, however, for many personal attacks by anonymous posters who don't want to read anything you write that doesn't agree with their almost religious beliefs about LLLT.

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Bill,

None of the doctors on this list support LLLT. I don't know where you are getting this from. All of these doctors have dismissed LLLT as quackary.

 

And having the list IS important.

 

Hairmax uses a list of doctors on their "medical advisory board" to gain credibility through association. The doctors agree to this because they get free internet exposure through the hairmax website. What other possible reason can they have for being on the hairmax advisory board? Clearly they don't really believe in the product because they won't come on here and answer questions from the skeptics. They certainly havn't posted any before/after pictures like they do for their HT patients. Telling, isn't it?

 

Our list represents doctors who stand for rational thought and true APPLICABLE scientific method. They reject the intellectual assuault the LLLT industry represents, and they do so to their own financial detriment, because all of them could be making money with LLLT quackary, but have decided not to do so because they know it simply doesn't work. The doctors on this list are champions. I can't say the same for those on the hairmax advisory board list who have refused to come onto this thread, or any other anti-LLLT thread, to support their own positions.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Bill,

None of the doctors on this list support LLLT. I don't know where you are getting this from. All of these doctors have dismissed LLLT as quackary.

 

Dr. Feller,

 

What are you talking about? Please read my message again.

 

Bill

[Dr. Alan Feller]

There is clearly a list of doctors who support and don't support laser therapy for hair restoration. However, I'm not so sure how a list of doctors on either side proves whether it works or not.

 

I assume the list of doctors you are referring to is the one at the top of this thread, so I was correcting you that none of these doctors support LLLT. Several have TRIED it, but eventually rejected it.

 

When you go on to say that you fail to see how a list of doctors proves whether it works or not, I pointed out that Hairmax gains credibility through association by listing the doctors they've included on their "medical advisory board". Of course this isn't evidence that it "works".

 

However, I do believe their list of doctors is indirect evidence that LLLT DOESN'T work, because hairmax would not need ANY of them if their product produced "demonstrabale (sic)" photographic results which, according to David Michaels himself, it OFTEN does NOT.

 

Maybe I misread your post? Either way, I know you don't believe LLLT works, that's all that counts in the end anyway.

[Bill - Seemiller]

I assume the list of doctors you are referring to is the one at the top of this thread, so I was correcting you that none of these doctors support LLLT. Several have TRIED it, but eventually rejected it.

 

No, you misread my post. What I said verbatim is "There is clearly a list of doctors who support and don't support laser therapy for hair restoration."

 

I'm referring to two separate lists, such as the one above verses the list on HairMax's website.

 

However, a list of doctors on either side doesn't (directly or indirectly) prove whether or not laser therapy works to stop hair loss. A list of doctors is just a list of doctors. However, I do think it helps to show that there are doctors who don't support laser therapy so the impression isn't that you are the only one not advocating it.

 

And no, I am not convinced laser therapy is an effective treatment. And I won't be until I start seeing enough objective consumer photos and reviews.

 

Bill

[Dr. Alan Feller]

There is clearly a list of doctors who support and don't support laser therapy for hair restoration

 

Now I see the problem. If you meant TWO lists then you meant to write:

"There are clearly lists of doctors who support and don't support..."

 

One more correction.

I didn't write that hairmax's list was PROOF of anything. I said it was EVIDENCE against the viability of LLLT. Big difference.

[Bill - Seemiller]

One more correction.

I didn't write that hairmax's list was PROOF of anything. I said it was EVIDENCE against the viability of LLLT. Big difference.

 

I know what you said. But a list of doctors on either side are not proof or evidence against anything. All a list of doctors on either side proves is that medical professionals support a particular position. But it doesn't scientifically prove whether the position (in this case, whether laser therapy has any benefit for hair loss) is the correct one.

[KeepTheHair]

I'd like to bump this one.

 

 

I have heard of a lot of people using the Hairmax lasercomb. No one has reported any regrowth or anything.

 

I have heard of people who spend thousand and thousands of dollars on LLLT and always get no results at all.

 

Low Level Laser Therapy is NOT effective in the treatment of hairloss or hair regrowth. It is a scam industry that has somehow got doctors behind it. I personally lose any respect I might have had for a doctor who supports LLLT since I was interested in this comb but it just does not have any evidence that it works.

 

 

Even from their own clinical trials the placebo users DID BETTER than the hairmax lasercomb trials.

 

 

 

Hairmax LaserComb is a huge scam and a ripoff. It is a HUGE waste of time and money!!!

 

LLLT SUCKS AND IT IS INEFFECTIVE.

[Dr. William Lindsey]

We had 2 similar patients with your story.

 

First, a plug repair we did last Friday who is a legislator in government. Despite years of really no help from any of the supplements or 2 lasers that he owns, he reluctantly stopped all of that stuff for 10 days before his repair and I suspect he's restarted already. He had 8 hours of me questioning him on why he spends about 5k a year on this stuff; when in fact, he resorted to surgery for the fix...and then he plans to restart the other treatments. I just can't understand it. I can see how someone who is just starting to lose their hair might try alot of things, but this nice guy is a class 6 with a terrible plug job. I don't think anything other than surgery is a viable option for him.

 

Second, we had a government employee who was a great candidate for a 3000 graft case. He and his wife seemed to understand all of the issues. We called to followup a week after the visit, and both said they were very interested, but had, after leaving the office, ordered a laser comb, and wanted to give it a try. Now its conceivable that they just wanted to dismiss our office, but when both were willing to talk to me and really not have any "excuses" other than that it looked good on the brand's web page; I think they were just sucked in by the laser comb marketing.

 

Surgery is not perfect for everyone, but LLLT has not produced any success stories that have later visited me to show me their results.

 

Dr. Lindsey McLean VA

[Sparky]

How can they use lasers for removing hair and growing hair? Probably slightly better off getting a cow to lick your head.

[Tembo]

Many people getting laser hair removal have complained that it grew new hair on them (turned vellous hair terminal). There was even a study on it.

[aseda1979]

"Laser" combs are to be hanged to light up my Christmas tree...

[akuma]

Hi Dr. Alan Feller thanks for the list. I greatly appreciate it and all the doctors that have added themselves to it.

 

I was about 16 with a big forehead (i had the big forehead since age 11 so its genetic bone shape, not hairloss). But i didn't know that at that time. Friends at high school said i am already losing hair (but ofcourse i wasn't). I thought I just started hairloss at age 11 and by 22 i'd be fully bald. I was really scared. So i looked up ways to stop it or fix it. Surgery was too expensive for me at that time and i didn't have the money. So i saw the hair max comb. Even that was expensive for a high school kid.

 

So i ended up buying one from here...

 

Amazing Laser Brush Photopage -Affordable Laser Brush

 

it claimed to do the same thing as hairmax. So i bought it and used it religiously since age 16. I am 24 now and my hair is pretty much the same except some minor thinning in my temples. Most people could use THAT as justification that laser comb works. Which is incorrect. And i wasn't losing hair at 16 as friends said so in high school. Those in high school that said that have lost alot of hair now. It is amazing how the perceptions changed. And how truth can be twisted.

 

But then I realised that i'd be in the same spot if i didn't use any laser comb. I just wasted my time all those years using the comb. MAYBE at most it kept my hair healthy and better shaft diameter. But i REALLY doubt its anything substantial. I had realised that I just had a large forehead, not really much hair loss. My brother who is 28 now has great head of hair just very minor temple thinning like myself. He also has large forehead.

 

Now i've gone and done a transplant to get a little lower hairline and am happy i did so.

 

Reading this post by Dr. Alan Feller makes want to pick up that laser comb that has wasted so many hours of my life and breaking it in half and throwing it. I used to carry that thing with me like my soul. I used to take it to me on family trips and hide it in my bag so no one saw. And use the comb in the bathroom when everyone slept. I felt like i was a thief doing something bad. The amount of stress and planning i had to do just to use the comb was crazy.

 

Sometimes i noticed my hair would thicken and then go a little thinner. But yet again i am 100% sure it wasn't due to laser comb, it was to do with uni stress. Its known that stress makes you lose hair. And once stress is over, the hair comes back. Which happened with me alot.

 

Plus i am not sure with this, but maybe all the people who claim results with laser comb are just going with the placebo effect. So much belief on the device that any "little" baby hair they see, they'd relate it back to the laser comb.

 

Bottom line, i think laser comb just takes credit for many variables.

 

Dr. Alan Feller, I had one question though. Dr. Glenn Charles did a study on the hair max and said it helped scar healing and reduced shock loss after transplant surgery.

 

Here is the link...

 

Hair transplant articles - LaserComb Clinical Studies

 

What is your thoughts on that?

Edited March 16, 2011 by akuma

[Dr. William Lindsey]

Oh my goodness. Like a bad penny this thread resurfaces. It is alive.

 

Dr. Lindsey McLean VA

[olmert]

This thread again resurfaces because I am new here.

 

1. Does the clinical study on the Hairmax website constitute any evidence that laser combs work? See HairMax LaserComb Featured on the Rachael Ray Show

 

2. The Hairmax site says "The results of the key clinical study performed with the HairMax LaserComb which led to FDA clearance to market was published in the May 2009 Issue of Clinical Drug Investigation." Key Clinical Study | HairMax.com Why did the FDA approve the laser comb, if there is no evidence it works?

[Sean]

I was just reviewing my stock portfolio and I came across this pr news release.

 

Hair Loss and Self-Esteem Restored with New Home Use Laser Treatment Device - MarketWatch

 

I don't understand how people are still creating lasers for hair growth and continue to make money. They claim that "This proven, safe Laser Hair Restoration Technology, otherwise known as phototherapy, is a scientific process providing stimulation to cells in your hair. The 25-year old advanced low-level laser treatment stimulates the scalp, allowing miniaturized and dormant hair follicles to rejuvenate."

 

I really don't think LLLT does anything. I was very close giving this a shot a while back, but other people informed me that it didn't do anything for them. I also saw Dr. Feller's video talking about it. I agree with what he said.

 

It just doesn't seem realistic at all. For those that may see some new hair pop up, could it be a placebo effect? I don't think a laser is attributing to hair growth. This is a complete waste of money. I haven't seen a legit study at all on it or any articles pertaining to its success rate scientifically. Mostly what I have seen are, promotional links, advertisements, a company's own "study", and user opinion on how it grew their hair. There was no valid evidence to back up their claims.

 

 

Are doctors still offering LLLT as a route patients can take to improve their hairloss?

[olmert]

Mostly what I have seen are, promotional links, advertisements, a company's own "study", and user opinion on how it grew their hair. There was no valid evidence to back up their claims.

 

 

Are doctors still offering LLLT as a route patients can take to improve their hairloss?

 

Yes. Doctors still are. And the clinical study was double blind. See HairMax LaserComb Featured on the Rachael Ray Show

 

Not even Dr. Feller suggests that the researchers had any way of knowing which was the placebo and which was the laser comb. And Dr. Feller will be the first one to concede that a clinical study is generally more reliable than anecdotal evidence or attempts to use logic to figure out efficacy. Indeed, Dr. Feller's video essentially says that that when you spread a light over a larger area the light is weaker at any given point. That is certainly true, but little evidence of medical efficacy. Clinical studies are generally accepted as the more scientific piece of evidence.

 

It seems that the advocates for LLLT are relying upon studies. Dr. Humayen posts a study above. Hairmax posts a double blind study. Meanwhile the detractors for LLLT have cited no studies, but instead cite anecdotal evidence and logic. The FDA appears to have sided with the studies.

Edited March 13, 2012 by olmert

[dingdong12]

to label doctors who dislike lllt as "good guys" infering those who dont as i guess "bad boys" seems harsh to me .

 

i thought the laser comb was fda approved and as stated by an earlier post the well rescpected dr charles obviously sees it as a god tool.

 

i dont know enough about lllt to comment if works or not but it is perhaps harsh to insinuate those who do believe it does as not "good guys"

[thanatopsis_awry]

 

i thought the laser comb was fda approved

 

 

 

It was FDA "approved" to be safe; nothing to do with its efficacy or proving of claims I don't believe.

 

Also, so many people have been scammed out of big money and wasted precious time (and emotional energy) into various LLLT treatments.

 

The vast majority of Dr's who I have seen sell and promote LLLT hair therapy for regrowth and such are not good guys. Plain and simple.

 

This is because they oversell a product and associate wild claims and wild success possibilities, while taking wild amounts of money from suffering people.

 

I can't speak for Dr. Charles, but I doubt he oversells LLLT like so many do.

 

Dr. Feller worked with Platelet Rich Plasma for a bit -- does that make him a "bad guy"? No. He didn't oversell anything, he was honest with patients, and he conducted it as an openly experimental procedure, that, while safe, was far from a sure thing in "guranteeing" regrowth or much of anything. He was working towards finding out, safely and honestly and scientifically, whether a new procedure could truthfully become a new weapon for MPB sufferers to use.

 

In that vein, I think it is likely Dr. Charles -- whose particular position on LLLT I don't know -- does not oversell LLLT and delude suffering people into using the treatment with unrealistic expectations and a huge sales pitch.

 

The same way there are wild claims that have been proven quite false with some new, pseudo-revolutionary hair multiplication/regrowth options -- and have been oversold -- yet still have some legitimate, honestly evaluated use and benefit to HT goers, such as the way the recovery of the scar can be healed or accelerated.

Edited March 14, 2012 by thanatopsis_awry