2012 graft fue Hasson & Wong (Dr. Wong) - October 3rd 2022

[milito_22]

Hi everyone, thank you for the answers. Gonna try to reply to everyone with one message.

First of all let me add that when I asked why FUT this time, Dr. Wong told me "is less stress on the grafts and is trying to rule out any reason why you didn't have 100 regrowth." Don't really get what he means with "trying to rule out any reason why you didn't have 100 regrowth."

Also, my dermatologist told me to get the 50% refund and don't have an other transplant at all, as my donor area is not "abundant." But H&W told me in their evaluation that I have less than average hair on the sides, and average hair in the back. So I guess I need to clarify this with my dermatologist first.

Before having a new surgery anyway, I agree that I need to understand if there's anything on my scalp. What kind of test should I ask for my dermatologist to do?

As someone has mention, yeah I am not definitively happy with this result. I hope I could solve this hair issue once and for all, since I have been fighting with hair loss since I was 16. Pretty much 16 years of minoxidil. It's kind of exhausting, above all when you don't see the result.

I see majority of you are saying to look for a new doctor instead of going again with Dr. Wong. Maybe that's what I should do as I am also located in Europe, so not easy financially and in terms of time to go to Vancouver. Also I am scared that I get a FUT, a scar but again no result.

Also if it was not clear from my previous message, just want to clarify that I will not be charged for the 1500 grafts

[Spidey]

You know that even with this procedure being a successful one it won't be a one shot cure all. Your hairloss would progress down the road and you would require another surgery to keep up with having a "full head of hair". What you can probably count on is the area you did get the procedure done on will more or less stay the way it is as the majority of what's there are transplanted hairs. 

[NM156]

1 hour ago, milito_22 said:

Hi everyone, thank you for the answers. Gonna try to reply to everyone with one message.

First of all let me add that when I asked why FUT this time, Dr. Wong told me "is less stress on the grafts and is trying to rule out any reason why you didn't have 100 regrowth." Don't really get what he means with "trying to rule out any reason why you didn't have 100 regrowth."

Also, my dermatologist told me to get the 50% refund and don't have an other transplant at all, as my donor area is not "abundant." But H&W told me in their evaluation that I have less than average hair on the sides, and average hair in the back. So I guess I need to clarify this with my dermatologist first.

Before having a new surgery anyway, I agree that I need to understand if there's anything on my scalp. What kind of test should I ask for my dermatologist to do?

As someone has mention, yeah I am not definitively happy with this result. I hope I could solve this hair issue once and for all, since I have been fighting with hair loss since I was 16. Pretty much 16 years of minoxidil. It's kind of exhausting, above all when you don't see the result.

I see majority of you are saying to look for a new doctor instead of going again with Dr. Wong. Maybe that's what I should do as I am also located in Europe, so not easy financially and in terms of time to go to Vancouver. Also I am scared that I get a FUT, a scar but again no result.

Also if it was not clear from my previous message, just want to clarify that I will not be charged for the 1500 grafts

You have some excellent doctors in Europe that are listed right here on this site. I would get my refund, see my dermatologist, then consult with a few of the great doctors promoted here.

As for his comment about FUT (100 regrowth) I can only guess it’s due to FUT vs FUE success rate. Just a guess.

Good luck, and don’t despair.

[Spidey]

3 hours ago, TorontoMan said:

I have to agree, the 50% growth so 50% refund policy is insanely idiotic, he should be embarrassed to even offer that.

The logic is baffling, as if someone came to a hair transplant clinic with the aim to get a 50% return from the procedure. If he admits that only 50% seems to have grown out, that doesn't mean the procedure was 50% succesful, that means it went wrong, and he should own up to it instead of being money hungry. Imagine hiring a contractor to build a house for you, they build it half way or half ass it, and then they say well, we built half.. its not livable, but we still did half 

Well to be fair lots of contractors put out barely satisfactory renos and builds but I see your point. 

[ITA]

18 hours ago, milito_22 said:

What kind of test should I ask for my dermatologist to do

The most reliable test is a biopsy, even if it leaves a small scar of 1/2 centimeter, but I recommend you also carry out tests to check your thyroid values.

[Der3k7]

4 hours ago, ITA said:

The most reliable test is a biopsy, even if it leaves a small scar of 1/2 centimeter, but I recommend you also carry out tests to check your thyroid values.

What would they even be looking for in that test and what would the mechanism of action be that’s causing his skin to have a low graft yield that they can tease out by doing that test?

[BurnieBurns]

Even the most renowned of surgeons have cases that don't grow as expected and I'm sorry you're one of them.

Any ethical doctor will not tell you that anything in surgery in guaranteed, though it must hurt even more having paid that amount of money and chosen someone with a good track record of success.

I agree that there's no point in getting a biopsy unless a doctor can suggest any suspected conditions. 

It maybe worth consulting with a few other physicians to discuss options before deciding whether to take the FUT or the refund from Dr Wong. Having multiple credible opinions wouldn't hurt.

Not to be all 'look on the bright side' but your hair loss pattern is still minor compared to many, the native hair is holding on strong with medication so it won't take that many more grafts to look good (Provided they grow of course).

[Spidey]

10 minutes ago, BurnieBurns said:

Even the most renowned of surgeons have cases that don't grow as expected and I'm sorry you're one of them.

Any ethical doctor will not tell you that anything in surgery in guaranteed, though it must hurt even more having paid that amount of money and chosen someone with a good track record of success.

 

I think people tend to jump on the isolated poor results like vultures... people seem to forget the reputation of Hasson and Wong is what it is for a reason. Even with the successful home run results posted here, there far many more people that have great results that don't even post online at all. How many procedures does HW do in a day. And over the years how many posts have we seen regarding poor results? Ya it happens and like you said it sucks to be the person that is the vast minority, but to scream neglect and other defamatory comments is just ridiculous. But I guess that's the nature of the online world we live in. 

[mister_25]

2 hours ago, Spidey said:

I think people tend to jump on the isolated poor results like vultures... people seem to forget the reputation of Hasson and Wong is what it is for a reason.

As much as I want to be a neutral party because I chose H&W as the clinic to perform my HT, I'll have to heavily disagree here.

When I selected Dr Hasson as my surgeon, I combed through every single result on this forum/reddit/elsewhere that I could find and made a notepad on how many successful cases vs how many failed cases, and even wrote the reason as to why I believe and why others believe the transplant failed and in what areas (Usually Poor yield or Native Hair shock loss) In total I found 3 Conclusive Failures on this forum dating back before 2022. There were others that could be seen as "doubtful" that they are truly poor results, but I think its fair to say that out of them all, 3 were blatant failures.

Too also note that in these failed cases, patients followed up with the doctors and seemed to be usually satisfied with moving forward with H&W or end up with somewhat positive words in spite of the poor growth if they decide to conclude their business with H&W.

Now In the past year, I'm seeing a upward trend of more unhappy H&W patients with factors that are objectively negative rather than subjectively. I even wrote here what the clinics/doctors response is as I want to be fully transparent.

• Reports of the Planned Hairline being different than the transplanted hairline - No Comment
• Poor Placements/Angles - Surgeon offered a follow up refinement/repair procedure free of charge
• Unnatural Temples - Surgeon offered a follow up refinement/repair procedure free of charge
• Accusations of a technician doing incisions on a patient - No Public Comment
• FUT Scar Stretching - No Comment
• Cases of Lower Yield than industry standard - Refunds or Free Touchups promised/offered
• Patients being upsold amount of grafts doing a surgery and told to come back in the future for a second one - No Comment

And on the subjectively

• More grafts being used than needed - No Comment
• Diminishing Communication - No Comment

I don't think its fair and actually a little bit insulting to admonish the critics as "vultures", when you factor in that there have been a increase of unhappy patients, people want answers and I'm sure OP wants them more than anyone.

Overall, Do I still think H&W is a good clinic? Yes, their positive cases speak for themselves, infact they impressed me that much that I chose Dr Hasson out of a list of other HT greats, but can I say that they are living up their reputation this year? I don't know.

I will say that I respect and think its a admirable quality that he offers and honors his refunds even if I disagree with the reasoning behind it (50% Growth, hence 50% refund). Not many clinics/surgeons do that and most clinics in Turkey will block you if you request a refund and some big name doctors would probably just ghost you.

2 hours ago, BurnieBurns said:

Not to be all 'look on the bright side' but your hair loss pattern is still minor compared to many, the native hair is holding on strong with medication so it won't take that many more grafts to look good (Provided they grow of course).

I agree that on the positive side, that there is still a lot of hope for your future transplants. 

Also its promising that you've been on treatment for 16 years and your still probably a NW3 or NW3A. You can still meet your goals even if all your future procedures yieleded the same as this one, provided that of course you stabilize for life.

Edited October 7, 2023 by mister_25

[Spidey]

9 minutes ago, mister_25 said:

As much as I want to be a neutral party because I chose H&W as the clinic to perform my HT, I'll have to heavily disagree here.

When I selected Dr Hasson as my surgeon, I combed through every single result on this forum/reddit/elsewhere that I could find and made a notepad on how many successful cases vs how many failed cases, and even wrote the reason as to why I believe and why others believe the transplant failed and in what areas (Usually Poor yield or Native Hair shock loss) In total I found 3 Conclusive Failures on this forum dating back before 2022. There were others that could be seen as "doubtful" that they are truly poor results, but I think its fair to say that out of them all, 3 were blatant failures.

Too also note that in these failed cases, patients followed up with the doctors and seemed to be usually satisfied with moving forward with H&W or end up with somewhat positive words in spite of the poor growth if they decide to conclude their business with H&W.

Now In the past year, I'm seeing a upward trend of more unhappy H&W patients with factors that are objectively negative rather than subjectively. I even wrote here what the clinics/doctors response is as I want to be fully transparent.

• Reports of the Planned Hairline being different than the transplanted hairline - No Comment
• Poor Placements/Angles - Surgeon offered a follow up refinement/repair procedure free of charge
• Unnatural Temples - Surgeon offered a follow up refinement/repair procedure free of charge
• Accusations of a technician doing incisions on a patient - No Public Comment
• FUT Scar Stretching - No Comment
• Cases of Lower Yield than industry standard - Refunds or Free Touchups promised/offered
• Patients being upsold amount of grafts doing a surgery and told to come back in the future for a second one - No Comment

And on the subjectively

• More grafts being used than needed - No Comment
• Diminishing Communication - No Comment

I don't think its fair and actually a little bit insulting to admonish the critics as "vultures", when you factor in that there have been a increase of unhappy patients, people want answers and I'm sure OP wants them more than anyone.

Overall, Do I still think H&W is a good clinic? Yes, their positive cases speak for themselves, infact they impressed me that much that I chose Dr Hasson out of a list of other HT greats, but can I say that they are living up their reputation this year? I don't know.

I agree that on the positive side, that there is still a lot of hope for your future transplants. 

Also its promising that you've been on treatment for 16 years and your still probably a NW3 or NW3A. You can still meet your goals even if all your future procedures yieleded the same as this one, provided that of course you stabilize for life.

Although an increase in documented ONLINE cases might make it seem like there is an increase in "failed" procedures, it doesn't mean that there is. For example, if HW performed more procedures during this time period then the % may not be any different than their overall avg. Also online posts on this forum doesn't reflect anything close to the real numbers. Also of the 7 "objective" points you made, aren't some of them from the same patient/case?  

[mister_25]

16 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Also of the 7 "objective" points you made, aren't some of them from the same patient/case?  

These are still objective points regardless that have been partially-piled on one case. It wouldn't make much of a difference in public outrage if they were scattered across 7 cases, or if they were piled on one.

And yes, whilst I do agree that there is a increase in documented cases that will both add more negatives and more positives in total, I feel like the jump of negative cases is not proportionate to the jump in positive cases.

Edited October 7, 2023 by mister_25

[Spidey]

10 minutes ago, mister_25 said:

 

And yes, whilst I do agree that there is a increase in documented cases that will both add more negatives and more positives in total, I feel like the jump of negative cases is not proportionate to the jump in positive cases.

That's your opinion. Both you and I will never know for certain 

[ITA]

11 hours ago, Der3k7 said:

What would they even be looking for in that test and what would the mechanism of action be that’s causing his skin to have a low graft yield that they can tease out by doing that test?

Scalp biopsy is indicated in all cases of suspected scar alopecia, in diseases where there is widespread hair loss and in all cases of diagnostic doubt. When performing a skin biopsy in hair diseases, the choice of scalp area plays a crucial role. Trichoscopy is very useful to direct you to an appropriate site for scalp biopsy in order to maximize yield and diagnostic accuracy. A wrong choice of biopsy area may not provide a diagnosis and probably requires another sampling.

[Chrisno]

12 hours ago, mister_25 said:

 

• Reports of the Planned Hairline being different than the transplanted hairline - No Comment
• Poor Placements/Angles - Surgeon offered a follow up refinement/repair procedure free of charge
• Unnatural Temples - Surgeon offered a follow up refinement/repair procedure free of charge
• Accusations of a technician doing incisions on a patient - No Public Comment
• FUT Scar Stretching - No Comment
• Cases of Lower Yield than industry standard - Refunds or Free Touchups promised/offered
• Patients being upsold amount of grafts doing a surgery and told to come back in the future for a second one - No Comment

Could you please link to these cases? I think I know what cases you refer to (it's not 7 cases, and one of them is a Reddit case where even the mods gave up on the poster due to his history of posting inaccurate statements; he claimed to be botched by both Konior and then Wong).

I think this thread has derailed. Let's discuss OPs case and not the clinic in general. Keep in mind Dr. Wong and Dr. Hasson operate independently, they only share office premises; their team of technicians (and surgical methods) are different.

It's impossible to know what has happened before OP gets a thorough evaluation of his scalp. I still believe most thinning native hairs have been lost, and not the transplanted hairs. If that is the case the surgery was not unsuccessful at all - and the yield is certainly above 50%.

We are not doctors on this forum, and even though we consume a lot of information about hair transplants, we are in no way experts. Let's stay humble and not jump to conclusions about whether the quality of a clinic has declined the last year or not based on a few online cases reported on this forum because we truly do not know the background and technicalities of each individual case.

[milito_22]

Hey everyone, thank you for all replies. Still not very clear on what to do honestly. But I guess I will take the 50% refund and check with my dermatologist if I can have those tests mentioned above. Then will look for a doctor in Europe to see if I can get another transplant

[consequence]

This is a disappointing result from Wong.

It does seem that FUEs might come in a bit wispier than FUT for some people. Having density issue of my own at 6 months and definitely wondering if I should have gone with strip in the first place.

Definitely let us know if you get a revision.

[TimeForAChange]

@milito_22 Any update? Did you end up going through with the 50% refund? Also, have you short-listed any doctors in Europe for you next transplant?

[milito_22]

Hi, I am in touch with Dr. Feriduni in Belgium. Let's see what he says. So far I haven't asked for the refund yet. Want to check my options first

[DavidSheer]

There’s a cosmetic improvement - though looks like you’ll need a small touch up. 

[duchaine]

On 10/4/2023 at 10:07 PM, Youth_Again said:

I would either take the FUT or a full refund. 

50% refund is a joke IMO

I agree.

50% of the result is not equale to 50% of the price.
If you give me a car with 2 wheels, it is a completely useless car, not a car that I can use at 50%.
A bad tranpalnt, where you get 50% growth is a disaster. You go from bold to odd.

[Der3k7]

Well it is a risk you take and accept when signing paperwork I believe. But would be nice to get reimbursement for waste of grafts 

[BurnieBurns]

Surgery is never guaranteed and in this case was never promised. I do not know any elite ethical surgeon who ‘guarantees’ their result. Please let me know is if there is.

Most would not offer any refunds even if the result was utterly botched.

 

15 hours ago, duchaine said:

I agree.

50% of the result is not equale to 50% of the price.
If you give me a car with 2 wheels, it is a completely useless car, not a car that I can use at 50%.
A bad tranpalnt, where you get 50% growth is a disaster. You go from bold to odd.

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by BurnieBurns

[milito_22]

Hi All,

I took a picture of my donor area. Doesn’t it look over harvested, does it? I feel I cannot have a second transplant. Please let me know your opinions

[jjalay]

36 minutes ago, milito_22 said:

Hi All,

I took a picture of my donor area. Doesn’t it look over harvested, does it? I feel I cannot have a second transplant. Please let me know your opinions

From this photo you really cant tell. You have to cut the hair shorter to see how the donor area look, not only on the back but on the sides too. Another important thing is if your donor feel really thinned out by touching your hairs on the back. You may not be a candidate for an fue procedure yes, from this photo you are a candidate for fut if you are considering another procedure.

[Melvin- Admin]

1 hour ago, milito_22 said:

Hi All,

I took a picture of my donor area. Doesn’t it look over harvested, does it? I feel I cannot have a second transplant. Please let me know your opinions

It’s hard to say, it looks diffuse near the crown area. Do you have any pictures of the donor before? And graft extraction pictures to see if grafts were removed there. At a glance it looks like lower crown thinning.