Eugenix | Grade VI | Dr P Sethi | 6268 grafts 15-18Dec 2022

[Rafael Manelli]

8 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

No, I’m saying when I went to the clinic I had a clear plan of where I wanted grafts. I didn’t go in with the plan of only doing my hairline and temples. I think Eugenix can be too accommodating to a fault. If a patient is unable to accept the reality of their hair loss they should be denied. No matter what, the patient can complain. We see complaints all the time _surgeon rejected me. It’s a no-win situation for the clinic. But best to not proceed with surgery, especially if a patient is trying to dictate the surgery and tell surgeons how and where to place hairlines and grafts.

My point is that results at 4 months should never be judged, regardless of the clinic. Even if a patient goes to the worst hair mill on earth, there’s a chance they could end up happy. 4 months is way too early to form any judgement. Judging a result this early sets a dangerous precedent on the forum. 

Judging an HT at 4 months is like judging a crop harvest at 4 months. It’s simply far too early.

[GeneralNorwood]

32 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

No, I’m saying when I went to the clinic I had a clear plan of where I wanted grafts. I didn’t go in with the plan of only doing my hairline and temples. I think Eugenix can be too accommodating to a fault. If a patient is unable to accept the reality of their hair loss they should be denied. No matter what, the patient can complain. We see complaints all the time _surgeon rejected me. It’s a no-win situation for the clinic. But best to not proceed with surgery, especially if a patient is trying to dictate the surgery and tell surgeons how and where to place hairlines.

 

But it wasn't like that i was dictating something. Yes, i told that i want to adress the temples and i showed some Eugenix work which i liked. But it was dr Priyadarshini's assesment, that i can't have implanted hair on the crown, and lateral humps - "because you have native hair there and first rule is to not harm". Then i insisted for some implantation on the crown, but dr Priyadarshini agreed only for around 300 grafts on the crown. Speaking of drawing hairline, She decided  about the height and i didn't dispute that. And i can say that the hairline is at good height in terms of ratio to the rest of the face, but of course it is very aggresive approach, according to a lot of people, too aggresive and bad choice in terms of donor managment. 

So saying that the end result is not good because they accommodated to my wishes and i dictated the surgery, it is not accurate. If not my request to implant some hair on the crown, the final result would be even worse. But you can be sure, that Dr Priyadarshini was dictating the whole procedure, not me. 

 

32 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

 

My point is that results at 4 months should never be judged, regardless of the clinic. Even if a patient goes to the worst hair mill on earth, there’s a chance they could end up happy. 4 months is way too early to form any judgement. Judging a result this early sets a dangerous precedent on the forum. 

 

Well, yeah, we can't judge frontal growth yet, that's true. it will improve a lot in coming months, for sure. 

However it is pretty obvious that lateral hump area is falling behind. In my case, at 4 months it was also visible that there is problem at lateral hump area and you now the end of story.  So we can't be delusional that some magic will happen in this area, there wasn't implantation there, just look at the evidence (pictures). 

And please, don't say "it's shock loss",  it is not. 

Edited April 23, 2023 by GeneralNorwood

[Melvin- Admin]

@DeltaV

You can say whatever you want about your results. Criticisms are valid and welcomed. But comments like “third world country” is unnecessary and not welcomed on this multi-cultural forum. 

The fact of the matter is that the socioeconomic status of the country where a clinic is located has no bearing on the results, or the skill of the clinic.  A comment like that insinuates that people of a particular socioeconomic status are lesser than, which is not true and unacceptable.

The worst work I’ve ever seen in recent years is from a clinic in Colorado. There are so many clinics in Beverly Hills that couldn’t hold a candle to some clinics in Latin America, South East/South Asia. 

Let’s be mindful and respectful towards others, regardless whether we’re of a certain ethnicity, that doesn’t give us a right to say whatever we want and expect others to not be offended. 

Onwards and upwards, 

[GeneralNorwood]

13 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

@DeltaV

You can say whatever you want about your results. Criticisms are valid and welcomed. But comments like “third world country” is unnecessary and not welcomed on this multi-cultural forum. 

 

Maybe you should create list of words and phrases that are not welcomed on this forum 🤣

Guys, he wrote this comment 2 days ago, just maybe forget about it, stop ideological war and speak about the results of HT? 

[Melvin- Admin]

16 minutes ago, GeneralNorwood said:

Maybe you should create list of words and phrases that are not welcomed on this forum 🤣

Guys, he wrote this comment 2 days ago, just maybe forget about it, stop ideological war and speak about the results of HT? 

No need for lists. I’ll moderate it as it happens. When there are multiple reports I have to address it, that’s my job. I should have addressed this much sooner, that is my bad. Unfortunately, I just saw the reports, as it is the weekend and I do have a life outside of the forum. I would agree, how about we all focus on the results, clinic location is irrelevant. 

[DeltaV]

15 hours ago, GeneralNorwood said:

However it is pretty obvious that lateral hump area is falling behind. In my case, at 4 months it was also visible that there is problem at lateral hump area and you now the end of story.  So we can't be delusional that some magic will happen in this area, there wasn't implantation there, just look at the evidence (pictures). 

And please, don't say "it's shock loss",  it is not. 

That is true that the left lateral humps is falling behind and it will not grow by magic if no implantation was done but we will wait. I partially take the blame of it for not asking the question like how I addressed the mid scalp gaps.

Even the mid scalp gaps, luckily I addressed it just an hour before the end of my surgery with technicians randomly stabbing 100 odd grafts in their using DHI method. Why DHI you may ask? Because the surgeon was not available to do the slits and left it to the technicians to make all the right angles for implantation. Is it acceptable for a clinic to leave this portion empty and rely on the patient to pinpoint it during surgery?

[DeltaV]

2 minutes ago, DeltaV said:

That is true that the left lateral humps is falling behind and it will not grow by magic if no implantation was done but we will wait. I partially take the blame of it for not asking the question like how I addressed the mid scalp gaps.

Even the mid scalp gaps, luckily I addressed it by highlighting just an hour before the end of my surgery with technicians randomly stabbing 100 odd grafts in their using DHI method. Why DHI you may ask? Because the surgeon was not available to do the slits and left it to the technicians to make all the right angles for implantation. Is it acceptable for a clinic to leave this portion empty and rely on the patient to pinpoint it during surgery?

@GeneralNorwoodyou are right that I am not the moderator of the group to get a proper job inspite of selecting the same package.

 

[sekiro109]

People need to focus on the valid HT criticism that @DeltaV has expressed and not derail his thread on some offhand comment he made while venting. I almost feel like some people here are the spokesman for Eugenix and will defend them to the death. 

Now moving onto OP's HT results. He has had excellent results at 4 months, and things will only improve from here on out. However, I find his criticisms of Eugenix valid. Mainly (1) leaving the mid scalp line completely bald until pointed out by the patient himself and (2) the lack of lateral humps.

Now, if this HT was done at an average HT clinic, I would say his results are overall good. However, this was supposedly done at one of the leading HT clinics in the world, and done so by Dr. Sethi himself. I can understand his frustration, especially considering that he has likely paid an enormous amount to have this done. One would expect much more. 

 

 

[GeneralNorwood]

5 hours ago, DeltaV said:

 I partially take the blame of it for not asking the question like how I addressed the mid scalp gaps.

Yes, i know this feeling of blaming yourself that you should know better. 

But it is not your fault, you are not the doctor. It is a job of lead surgeon to make HT plan and supervise the procedure.  And you are the patient who is undergoing stressful procedure and is in hands of doctors. 

 

Imagine this : You have operation,  you are on narcosis, doctors cut your belly, they are doing some procedure and forget to pull out some medical tool before sewing the belly. Now you have for example scissors in your body. Do you blame yourself for not asking the doctor if he pulled out the scissors before sewing? No, it is ridiculous to blame yourself.

 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by GeneralNorwood

[DeltaV]

22 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

This is not a fair statement to make, as I went in with a very clear plan of what I wanted done. Unfortunately, you didn’t believe you were a Norwood 6/7. It was two completely different scenarios.

What some of you guys are saying at 4 months is shocking. So far, the results look objectively good. Now, will this patient be happy? Only time will tell. But to start talking like this is a failure at 4 months is not right, and it’s something that I don’t do even for the worst clinics. Why? Because there’s a chance it could end up good. 

Even in the worst scenarios I tell patients to wait and see how the results turn out. This “had it been a clinic in Turkey” stuff is nonsense. Refer to this thread

Let’s be reasonable and not start judging results before they’ve begun. Criticism is fair, but we don’t know how this is going to turn out until 12 months. Thus far, it’s reasonable to say its on track to be an excellent outcome. But, there’s no guarantee the patient will be happy. That’s a valid truth. 

hahahaha....just stumbled upon the HT page that Melvin linked in his reply of @ronyrockford. He also made some serious remarks about doing an HT in India based on his experience. No one of you trolled and criticised this gentleman and infact everyone was sympathetic with him just because he didn't go to a forum recommended clinic. 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by Melvin- Moderator
Removed comment

[drawdownfx]

One of the most alarming things here is the technician using DHI because there was no doctor available. If this was on the cheapest package it maybe somewhat justified but OP chose the highest package. This is abysmal and in my opinion is grounds for refund. OP paid for slits from dr sethi not a random technician he doesn’t know. 

[A_4_Archan]

1 hour ago, DeltaV said:

hahahaha....just stumbled upon the HT page that Melvin linked in his reply of @ronyrockford. He also made some serious remarks about doing an HT in India based on his experience. No one of you trolled and criticised this gentleman and infact everyone was sympathetic with him just because he didn't go to a forum recommended clinic. 

I didn't see that at tht time and i can't speak on behalf of others that why they didn't shut such sick people tht time..but now i have gone through that post but you mite not have gone through properly ..@BRITA-XL and @Melvin- Moderator both raised concern about tht particular comment...and i would say those idio** just go to a cheap clinic first and than they cry ...and even after going to a cheap clinic they get a good result at the end but they can't wait for few months and want all the hair to grow in few days...i have seen how idioti* behavior it was from the op's end and he wanted to undo a surgery.. i can only say one thing that "there are lots of idio** out there and people of india don't mind if one of them vanish somewhere which would be infact good for other people living in india" but i don't think tht such people would be welcomed anywhere in the world ...

Dogs will be dogs regardless of country they live..infact shud not use the term dogs as they are way better than such sick people and way loyal thn them 

Such people are sick and even can see tht sickness from their statement about blue collar and white collar job...no job is bad if it is lawful but this idio** have such a discriminative mindset even towards work that they make discriminations based on work as well and they would treat people based on their work...good that such people go and my sympathies with canadian people that they have to bear one sick mentality amongst them...

[Melvin- Admin]

1 hour ago, drawdownfx said:

One of the most alarming things here is the technician using DHI because there was no doctor available. If this was on the cheapest package it maybe somewhat justified but OP chose the highest package. This is abysmal and in my opinion is grounds for refund. OP paid for slits from dr sethi not a random technician he doesn’t know. 

DHT technique isn’t always used, for me, slits were made by Sethi first and technicians implanted the grafts. Technicians didn’t create slits.

@DeltaV

Because someone else said something foul, doesn’t mean it’s allowed. I’ve removed that comment and warned the poster. How about we stick to results and not drag countries into this. 

If you compare that picture vs. one month there is no visible gap in the middle.

When you compare pre-op you see theres native hair in the middle, though miniaturized with no visible gap in placement.

Now, when you look at the pictures just posted the middle seems to have the most hair, due to you having the most native hair in this zone.

Will you be satisfied? Only time will tell. No one can say otherwise.

[BaldReaper]

Its absurd how a clinic that gets hyped up that much in this forum and is considered a high level one, consistently treats the surgery they perform on their patient's heads , which will be visible to them and to the people around them for the rest of their life, like playing paper toss.

 

Maybe the patient gets a good result but this is not the case here, if you are going to be treated like that just go to a random mill in Turkey.

Edited April 24, 2023 by BaldV

[GeneralNorwood]

18 hours ago, BaldV said:

Maybe the patient gets a good result but this is not the case here, if you are going to be treated like that just go to a random mill in Turkey.

Well Eugenix have high survival rate, they implant hair with good angles, they rarely overharvest the donor, so i wouldn't be so harsh. I saw victim of turkish mill in person and that was real botchery... 

The thing is that Eugenix was so hyped here, that people expect highest standards and best results. And recently even dr Sethi's results are questionable. 

Eugenix have the skill, but they are taking too many patients in my opinion. And quality suffers. 

So if you want 100% dedication on your case, you should chose the doctor who performs 1 or 2 operations during one day, no more. It seems that Sethi has now too many responsibilities and he can't focus properly on his patients. And price for him is as high as for top European surgeons...  

Edited April 25, 2023 by GeneralNorwood

[BaldReaper]

1 hour ago, GeneralNorwood said:

Well Eugenix have high survival rate, they implant hair with good angles, they rarely overharvest the donor, so i wouldn't be so harsh. I saw victim of turkish mill in person and that was real botchery... 

The thing is that Eugenix was so hyped here, that people expect highest standards and best results. And recently even dr Sethi's results are questionable. 

Eugenix have the skill, but they are taking too many patients in my opinion. And quality suffers. 

So if you want 100% dedication on your case, you should chose the doctor who performs 1 or 2 operations during one day, no more. It seems that Sethi has now too many responsibilities and he can't focus properly on his patients. And price for him is as high as for top European surgeons...  

i am referring to doctor’s attention thats why I compare to Turkish mills, the results are indeed better (usually)

[Stewie]

I suppose this comes down to a couple of things really, I didn't realise when I first seen the opening post that he had paid for the highest package, that in itself is shocking that you have not had the level of service as others, as I know from lots of other posts that the likes of Melvin and others have had extensive in person consultation hairline design sessions for hours, not minutes. I myself had my hairline and general assessment done in around 2 minutes, and whilst generally I was super happy with the work they did I actually only paid for the second tier package, and even then after the quick assessment I was shocked and broken a bit and had to really grab the doc the next day to make sure they was going to do something inline with what I wanted

and then obviously the result, I do not doubt and especially for the amount of grafts that your going to have a great result, but that feeling that you have been short changed will not leave you as it would not leave me if I was in the same boat

the trouble as I see it is that not in question of the work Eugenix can produce and more in the fact they seem to be stretching themselves very thinly and actively striving for overly difficult cases to bolster their reputation, rather than actually getting back to basics and giving actual value to the customer who is in front of you

[DeltaV]

4 hours ago, Stewie said:

but that feeling that you have been short changed will not leave you as it would not leave me if I was in the same boat

Absolutely hit the nail on the head Stewie. This is the terrible feeling of 'Short Changed' which has made me to stand up and not about the results. I am detail oriented person and selected the highest package to have each and every graft implanted with details. I had to take control of my surgery midway and steer it in the right direction as it was complete chaotic and no one should go through this experience.

I have had many former Eugenix patients message me privately of the similar experience but are scared to standup of being booed on this forum. I would encourage all to standup without any fear.

[Stewie]

I really hope my Eugenix results are as good as many others before me, but I was quite open on my topic when I went in January, and it was chaotic before the surgery began, the day it should of started I sat around for 7 hours waiting for my hairline and general assessment, only to be rushed through within 10 minutes and basically told thats what you are having! I was gutted. In my experience the day after (a day late) it was Dr Soumesh who saved it for me, I grabbed him and told him I really wanted my mid area addressing and that was my main concern, he then proceeded to update and show my photos as the surgery went on, and I paid a little extra to have Dr Arika do the hairline which she did, so in that way I got what I paid for, but leading up to surgery was all over the place and the filming really gets in the way and is to much, especially when you have just finished up after a long day.

Definitely can't argue their results are brilliant, but they really need to address the customer experience, and its a very high anxiety thing to go through in the first place, and when you feel rushed, pressured and not listened too, then its only going to make it all worse again

[DeltaV]

1 hour ago, Stewie said:

Dr Soumesh who saved it for me

Likewise, Dr somesh helped me a lot during my surgery and was the only one who could connect to me and I could have a proper conversation. He did not have to do it as he was not my selected surgeon but really thankful for whatever he has done. 

[DeltaV]

I paid for Waitrose's but actually it was Tesco Express 😂

[ThinningIndian]

How's it going @DeltaV?

[DeltaV]

18 minutes ago, ThinningIndian said:

How's it going @DeltaV?

It's alright in favorable lighting like indoors or in evening but as soon as light falls on the hair or out day time in the sun, it is terrible.

How about yourself?

[DeltaV]

Here's a picture in very favorable lighting indoors which keeps me a bit happy with a false sense of happiness.....hehehehehe

[ThinningIndian]

39 minutes ago, DeltaV said:

It's alright in favorable lighting like indoors or in evening but as soon as light falls on the hair or out day time in the sun, it is terrible.

How about yourself?

I just saw your photo and I think it looks good for this amount of time!

I just posted my progress now as kept putting it off for months but I am at month 3 now so any words from you will be really appreciated!