Eugenix | Grade VI | Dr P Sethi | 6268 grafts 15-18Dec 2022

[DeltaV]

5 minutes ago, duckling said:

You could not have made typo for two whole paragraphs. You are backtracking your own words which you made in first 2 months. 

"Final Day 18th Dec:

I was called in late 4pm as only little bit temples were remaining. Dr P also said that we can add an extra 100 grafts in the mid region. This was not in the plan but he thought that it would be beneficial. I was so exhausted and with all the anesthesia injection over the last four days, i remember saying that i do not want any more hair and had enough of it."

And then you wrote this :

I am sharing my experience and it was a good one at Eugenix. Couldn't have asked for anything better please don't get me wrong. 

So when writing this if you were so happy and clicking selfies then how come you keep mentioning new problems now? It feels tough now to trust your words. Your thread isn't trustworthy to me atleast. Not anymore after seeing your replies. Maybe you are speaking truth but then you should have said things earlier. Changing so much words now shows something is fishy.

Very well picked up and I admit I have made contradicting statements about my experience at Eugenix. In hindsight, it was too early for me to write my experience just couple of days post op. Lesson learned to always gather my thoughts and wait atleast a month before sharing experience.

However, the 100 graft was a sure shot miss and only after me pointing it out was offered to me.

[duckling]

1 hour ago, DeltaV said:

It's hypocrisy that when so many folks commenting here openly call out to avoid Turkey it seems very acceptable. But when I myself being Indian say to avoid a third world country, the same folks find it unaccepting.

You still keep saying it !

hypocrisy ? people just say "avoid turkey" , mostly because of hair mills. they don't add any other extra terms like you keep adding. There is a difference.   

And being Indian doesn't entitle you to speak out anything that others have to listen/accept. Say whatever you want about clinics I have no problem there. 

Edited April 22, 2023 by duckling

[duckling]

5 minutes ago, DeltaV said:

Very well picked up and I admit I have made contradicting statements about my experience at Eugenix. In hindsight, it was too early for me to write my experience just couple of days post op. Lesson learned to always gather my thoughts and wait atleast a month before sharing experience.

However, the 100 graft was a sure shot miss and only after me pointing it out was offered to me.

The lateral humps was a miss too. Should have gathered these things and posted initially. When you make contradicting statements later then even if people want to believe you , its tough to do so. I have no love for a clinic to defend them as otherwise i won't be fair when suggesting others anything on this forum. 

I hope that if you are speaking truth then they offer you a fix. And you get good results. Wait for initial results and then talk to clinic. Maybe during 1 year follow-up they offer you a fix?

[DeltaV]

2 minutes ago, duckling said:

I hope that if you are speaking truth then they offer you a fix.

I don't want a fix and no Eugenix HT for me even if it is free of cost.

Edited April 22, 2023 by DeltaV

[DeltaV]

33 minutes ago, GeneralNorwood said:

Just look at the Melvin's result. When you are Moderator of hairrestorationnetwork, you get lateral humps done properly,. 

I know exactly how you feel mate. Absolutely unfair.

[Rafael Manelli]

3 hours ago, DeltaV said:

It's hypocrisy that when so many folks commenting here openly call out to avoid Turkey it seems very acceptable. But when I myself being Indian say to avoid a third world country, the same folks find it unaccepting.

I think you have been dragged too hard for this. It is factual that every country holds different legal standards for medicine. I can’t speak to India in particular, and Eugenix, from what I gather, generally has a high standard, but I don’t think your comment is egregiously out of line. Your point about Turkey is valid and it’s true that Turkey has become an HT hotbed precisely because of the permissive regulations there.

It’s not as if you are saying that every surgeon in a developing country is worse quality, just that standards vary across the globe, as laws and customs differ.

Edited April 22, 2023 by Rafael Manelli

[Z--]

6 hours ago, Captain Haddock said:

Pretty shocking that Eugenix still continue to dish out below par, sub standard care to their patients even in the highest level, custom packages. It's a pretty careless hair mill looking to make as much as money/day at this point. 

What @DeltaV is alluding to when he says "third world country" - is not a take on the country itself, but the standard of care and ethics. You wouldn't have doctors abandoning you on the surgery table in the west. They will get sued. 

You cannot promise your patients a certain set of surgeons before a cosmetic procedure is booked, and then have some junior techs carry out your job and get away with it.

The lack of consumer awareness in India means Eugenix exploits his day in and day out to their advantage (as evidenced by multiple threads) - there's no proper redressal for those who are wronged, except for coming on forums like these and venting.

While I agree that it’s poor form that OP paid for the highest package and had minimal doctor involvement/techs working on him instead (which honestly ought to entitle him to a large refund) and that this is yet another poorly planned procedure from Eugenix (they need to get their act together - it’s virtually ASMED all over again), I don’t think it’s true that doctors don’t abandon you in the West without getting sued. 

There’s been at least one patient stating that former forum recommended Dr. D (Bay Area) wasn’t in the operating room for the majority of his procedure. I’ve seen that same claim regarding H&W twice now (Nordster and Qui Bono). There are many garbage doctors in the West who outsource the majority if not all surgery to techs, unfortunately. Look at the Colorado butcher who used his nurse to perform the full surgery a few years ago. It’s unfortunately more common than you’d expect. Truly a garbage industry. 

There’s only a handful of doctors worth visiting at this point. I can’t say Eugenix is one of them. 

[Z--]

As for @DeltaV - sorry about the experience. How have your calls with Sethi gone? Have your concerns been acknowledged or any solutions offered given the poor experience?

I think it’s way too soon to deem the transplant as a failure. I don’t buy the wait 12 months Eugenix keeps peddling, but if it still looks like this by month 6, then it’s probably a very bad sign and time to seek a repair surgeon. I’m sure you’re aware, but for some, baseline won’t be hit until around 5 months, so you’ve got plenty of time (and honestly it already looks better than baseline). Fingers crossed you get results that will make you happy. 

[DeltaV]

1 hour ago, Z-- said:

As for @DeltaV - sorry about the experience. How have your calls with Sethi gone? Have your concerns been acknowledged or any solutions offered given the poor experience?

I think it’s way too soon to deem the transplant as a failure. I don’t buy the wait 12 months Eugenix keeps peddling, but if it still looks like this by month 6, then it’s probably a very bad sign and time to seek a repair surgeon. I’m sure you’re aware, but for some, baseline won’t be hit until around 5 months, so you’ve got plenty of time (and honestly it already looks better than baseline). Fingers crossed you get results that will make you happy. 

Thanks Z. My disappointment is not on my 4 months results but on the way my surgery was conducted which I have described in previous post 

[DeltaV]

2 hours ago, Z-- said:

it’s virtually ASMED all over again

ASMED Déjà Vu true that.

[Rawkerboi]

You need to stay calm and that's the only option you have right now.

The concerns what you have raised regarding the clinic is really disheartening.

Eugenix really had the potential to be the best but unfortunately they are just going down the hill now.. 

But saying  '' third world country '' is definitely wrong even though you are an Indian still this is not fair to comment like that. 

Anyways wish you luck 

[duckling]

6 hours ago, Rafael Manelli said:

I think you have been dragged too hard for this. It is factual that every country holds different legal standards for medicine. I can’t speak to India in particular, and Eugenix, from what I gather, generally has a high standard, but I don’t think your comment is egregiously out of line. Your point about Turkey is valid and it’s true that Turkey has become an HT hotbed precisely because of the permissive regulations there.

It’s not as if you are saying that every surgeon in a developing country is worse quality, just that standards vary across the globe, as laws and customs differ.

what ? He says one line and then you come and add 9 other lines trying to explain things and also you added so much on turkey 😄 did you see him/others discussing on turkey being a HT hotbed ? 

From where did you bring these lines into context :

1) Your point about Turkey is valid and it’s true that Turkey has become an HT hotbed precisely because of the permissive regulations there.

2) It’s not as if you are saying that every surgeon in a developing country is worse quality, just that standards vary across the globe, as laws and customs differ.

He just used the "turkey card" to get a pass for him calling india a third world country. There was no made on turkey, Plain and simple. Think everyone got that until you came and added more words.

[duckling]

But lets forget that (since its a HT forum) and now please explain to me this behaviour of him . Since you play spokesperson @Rafael Manelli maybe you can explain this too? His post was so detailed, i cannot agree that he made typos. So much of statements changing ? He had 4 months to collect his thought and update us . But he updates when he thinks that maybe his yield is low.

  

8 hours ago, duckling said:

You could not have made typo for two whole paragraphs. You are backtracking your own words which you made in first 2 months. 

"Final Day 18th Dec:

I was called in late 4pm as only little bit temples were remaining. Dr P also said that we can add an extra 100 grafts in the mid region. This was not in the plan but he thought that it would be beneficial. I was so exhausted and with all the anesthesia injection over the last four days, i remember saying that i do not want any more hair and had enough of it."

And then you wrote this :

I am sharing my experience and it was a good one at Eugenix. Couldn't have asked for anything better please don't get me wrong. 

So when writing this if you were so happy and clicking selfies then how come you keep mentioning new problems now? It feels tough now to trust your words. Your thread isn't trustworthy to me atleast. Not anymore after seeing your replies. Maybe you are speaking truth but then you should have said things earlier. Changing so much words now shows something is fishy.

 

[Bandit90]

I don't wish to get caught up in any semantics, nor add to any. But I just want to share my experience to @DeltaV regarding the lateral hump. I, too encountered a similar issue with the lateral hump on side after my first pass (I did document this during my final update before my second procedure - see first picture). I put this down to it just being far too many grafts required to completely fix everything in one pass. The positive news for me is that is was completely addressed during my second pass and does looks very good now. I don't want to spice anything up here, I just purely want to give you my take to a similar situation I found myself in. 

[DeltaV]

Thanks @Bandit90for sharing your experience. Appreciate it 

[Rafael Manelli]

1 hour ago, duckling said:

what ? He says one line and then you come and add 9 other lines trying to explain things and also you added so much on turkey 😄 did you see him/others discussing on turkey being a HT hotbed ? 

From where did you bring these lines into context :

1) Your point about Turkey is valid and it’s true that Turkey has become an HT hotbed precisely because of the permissive regulations there.

2) It’s not as if you are saying that every surgeon in a developing country is worse quality, just that standards vary across the globe, as laws and customs differ.

He just used the "turkey card" to get a pass for him calling india a third world country. There was no made on turkey, Plain and simple. Think everyone got that until you came and added more words.

I’m not here to play “spokesperson” as you call it. I am merely stating that medical standards vary legally throughout the world. It seems you’re more offended that a country would be referred to as third world, than that third world countries are criticised for their medical standards. Fair enough. To some, it’s an offensive term. He could have chosen his words better.

[A_4_Archan]

@Rafael Manelli People not only got offended by the term "third world country" but also when the op said that "he would prefer a botched up result somewhere else".. Medical standard may differ throughout the world and i believe that should be improved where there is scope of improvement and that is a different debate all together ....we are hear to judge a surgeon on his/her particular set standards and skills..a surgeon is termed as a "good surgeon" when he/she follows the given "medical standard" which he/she sworn by when they become a surgeon regardless of medical standard of their particular country ...there are cases where so called "first world country" doctors have been negligent and produced botched up results and when that patient raised voice against that but unfortunately they have been silenced with a defamation case..even this forum has been sued by many such so called "first world country" surgeons and many have been victims even with such "medical standards" set in those countries....there is a "medical standard" and "ethical standard" which is taught to a doctor during his/her studies and that is same all over the world and all surgeons are taught to follow that fair practices throughout the world which they should obey and we should judge them on that....if eugenix fails to deliver on that we have a right to voice our concern and should keep it as simple as that...now i think we should stop this things here on a good note and its better for the community that we stop sledging eachothr and should not derail ths thread...should rather give some productive advice to the op...

@DeltaVAnd the advice from me would be to wait few more months ...i understand when you pay so much and still if you got neglected than thts not acceptable at all...your concerns are genuine and this things happened to many other members as well and this should be fixed asap by the clinic..i stand by your comments that even if the end result is good that should not be a scapegoat to be negligent or not giving proper attention to a patient..but regarding the outcome i would say give it sometime and than lets see how it goes...i still believe you will get a satisfactory outcome...hope you are on medication...

Edited April 23, 2023 by A_4_Archan

[Rafael Manelli]

@A_4_Archan that I can agree with. Plenty of hair mills and bad doctors in the west too. The OP has plenty of time to get a satisfactory result, and any dissatisfaction with the way his operation was conducted on the way should hopefully be moot compared to a good final outcome. He is only a few months in after all.

[Gatsby]

This is a hair loss forum. Not the Ukraine. Anyone is free to have a crack at me personally or otherwise. So getting back to the original pre op pics and the four months results. It looks exactly on point and my only complaint is that I don’t possess this patient’s excellent donor and virgin scalp that has no previous scars from previous bad work like myself. I look forward to seeing the fifth month update. Thanks for sharing! 👍

[DeltaV]

Yup, see you all at 5 months. I am going nowhere.

[Z--]

The faux outrage and crocodile tears by Americans because an Indian insulted his own country is quite embarrassing. Whatever it takes to defend a clinic that’s becoming more and more like a hairmill, I suppose. 

Can you imagine if a Turk said not to come to Turkey or referred to it as a third world country? Not one of you would bat an eye. Same deal with an El Salvadoran/Nigerian/Iraqi/etc. telling folks not to have a procedure in their respective countries. It’s not the same as an uneducated American who has never visited making the comment, esp if OP has history and roots in those places. 

OP may not live in India at this point and it’s hard to see why his comment is unreasonable. If I had a poor experience, certainly I’d rather have it locally instead of across the world. 

[Melvin- Admin]

17 hours ago, GeneralNorwood said:

Yes, they said exactly same excuse to me. This is total BS, just look at my final result. 

But when you point out poor density, it is of course possible to implant more and pre-existing hair suddenly doesn't matter 😆

Just look at the Melvin's result. When you are Moderator of hairrestorationnetwork, you get lateral humps done properly,. 

This is not a fair statement to make, as I went in with a very clear plan of what I wanted done. Unfortunately, you didn’t believe you were a Norwood 6/7. It was two completely different scenarios.

What some of you guys are saying at 4 months is shocking. So far, the results look objectively good. Now, will this patient be happy? Only time will tell. But to start talking like this is a failure at 4 months is not right, and it’s something that I don’t do even for the worst clinics. Why? Because there’s a chance it could end up good. 

Even in the worst scenarios I tell patients to wait and see how the results turn out. This “had it been a clinic in Turkey” stuff is nonsense. Refer to this thread

Let’s be reasonable and not start judging results before they’ve begun. Criticism is fair, but we don’t know how this is going to turn out until 12 months. Thus far, it’s reasonable to say its on track to be an excellent outcome. But, there’s no guarantee the patient will be happy. That’s a valid truth. 

[GeneralNorwood]

8 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

This is not a fair statement to make, as I went in with a very clear plan of what I wanted done. Unfortunately, you didn’t believe you were a Norwood 6/7. It was two completely different scenarios.

Yes, you were better educated when you had surgery at Eugenix, i can't deny this. Remember that they graded me Norwood 3V, which reasured my false belief.  You can blame me for being delusional that i was 3V, but what about the clinic? Clinic is not some random dude, who read some information about balding on the internet, Eugenix did thousands of procedures and they are well educated in subject of hairloss and hairtransplants. And they still graded me 3V, so think about that. 

So basicaly you are saying that if you don't have solid plan by yourself and you are not educated correctly about your baldness, don't count on Eugenix that they will make solid plan for you. Sorry, but it sounds like this 😆

 

Edited April 23, 2023 by GeneralNorwood

[Rafael Manelli]

3 minutes ago, GeneralNorwood said:

Yes, you were better educated when you had surgery at Eugenix, i can't deny this. Remember that they graded me Norwood 3V, which reasured my false belief.  You can blame me for being delusional that i was 3V, but what about the clinic? Clinic is not some random dude, who read some information about balding on the internet, Eugenix did thousands of procedures and they are well educated in subject of hairloss and hairtransplants. And they still graded me 3V, so think about that. 

So basicaly you are saying that if you don't have solid plan by yourself and you are not educated correctly about your baldness, don't count on Eugenix that they will make solid plan for you. 

 

I don’t think a patient should be blamed for putting his trust in a clinic when they tell him he is a class 3V. Laymen are expected to put a level of trust in experts, especially if they are going to be cutting their scalp open. Your head is literally in their hands.

[Melvin- Admin]

42 minutes ago, GeneralNorwood said:

Yes, you were better educated when you had surgery at Eugenix, i can't deny this. Remember that they graded me Norwood 3V, which reasured my false belief.  You can blame me for being delusional that i was 3V, but what about the clinic? Clinic is not some random dude, who read some information about balding on the internet, Eugenix did thousands of procedures and they are well educated in subject of hairloss and hairtransplants. And they still graded me 3V, so think about that. 

So basicaly you are saying that if you don't have solid plan by yourself and you are not educated correctly about your baldness, don't count on Eugenix that they will make solid plan for you. Sorry, but it sounds like this 😆

 

No, I’m saying when I went to the clinic I had a clear plan of where I wanted grafts. I didn’t go in with the plan of only doing my hairline and temples. I think Eugenix can be too accommodating to a fault. If a patient is unable to accept the reality of their hair loss they should be denied. No matter what, the patient can complain. We see complaints all the time _surgeon rejected me. It’s a no-win situation for the clinic. But best to not proceed with surgery, especially if a patient is trying to dictate the surgery and tell surgeons how and where to place hairlines and grafts.

My point is that results at 4 months should never be judged, regardless of the clinic. Even if a patient goes to the worst hair mill on earth, there’s a chance they could end up happy. 4 months is way too early to form any judgement. Judging a result this early sets a dangerous precedent on the forum.