Eugenix (Drs. Das/Somesh/Vinita) | 11,102 grafts | NW 6/7 | 28 yrs old | 2022/2023/2024

[Fox243]

11 minutes ago, general-etwan said:

Had to read up on it; have been so busy with life I hadn't known about this. 

Sounds promising but also almost like magic. Preventing scarring and improving skin quality I can see, but regenerating hair follicles? Sounds like something David Blaine or Criss Angel would do. Through all the ideas over the years of regenerating or cloning hair follicles, I could never wrap my head around it logically. To me a hair follicle is a real, tangible object locked in place in matter (skin) and if moved, it remains a single object in its new place and nothing suddenly reappears in its old place. If we could actually produce regeneration in that manner, then I think we have to question our entire understanding of the universe itself. How can something come of nothing? Well, that's the deepest question of all in terms of how this universe began in the first place, isn't it? 😂

Like others said in the verteporfin thread, even if it just prevents scarring, that's a big deal.

Definitely interested in learning more about it. Will be in touch.

Trust me, even after studying this for 1.5 years, I'm still shocked. But I, like you, am extremely analytical and this is the #1 shot at greatly increasing our chances for more hair. It only hasn't caught more attention mainstream b/c it requires surgery, but the audience at HRN is the perfect candidate for it. The way I see it, people using verteporfin have got nothing to lose and only things to gain. 

Edited November 3, 2023 by Fox243

[general-etwan]

14 minutes ago, Fox243 said:

Trust me, even after studying this for 1.5 years, I'm still shocked. But I, like you, am extremely analytical and this is the #1 shot at greatly increasing our chances for more hair. It only hasn't caught more attention mainstream b/c it requires surgery, but the audience at HRN is the perfect candidate for it. The way I see it, people using verteporfin have got nothing to lose and only things to gain. 

So the only way it could potentially be effective on old scars (all the ones I already have) is to re-injure the sites and then use verteporfin on it? 

[Fox243]

2 hours ago, general-etwan said:

So the only way it could potentially be effective on old scars (all the ones I already have) is to re-injure the sites and then use verteporfin on it? 

Potentially, but there's been no research showing that it can be effective on old scars iirc. I think it should work, but that's pure speculation.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Fox243

[hairman22]

8 hours ago, general-etwan said:

Yeah, not going to rush SMP that's for sure. But ultimately I expect I'll want to use it in combination. If I can get to a sufficient level of overall redistribution that I'm happy with, then I might be able to get SMP all over to work in tandem with the more homogenous look. But I don't think we're there yet.

I'm not sure mtb's starting point is that much better than mine, to be fair. I'm not sure whether you want to call each of us NW6 or NW7 but either way there doesn't look like too huge a difference from starting point.

 

I'm not sure either if Zarev would have ever taken me as a patient at starting point. But I think if he had, his strategy would have been consistent with his other cases in which he is meeting the boundaries together.

 

 

If just think at this point I will need to get to 10,000-12,000 total grafts moved too before I am fully satisfied with the redistribution. But I will want extractions to be taken right up to the sharpest boundary of hair loss and even down into the nape area, which Zarev goes pretty low into.

wow great analysis. Yeah quite similar. Zarev really would have ideal for your case imo.

Your head looks smaller as well so maybe less grafts for full coverage

[Stewie]

11 hours ago, general-etwan said:

It's a tough choice between trying dutasteride vs just not worrying about medication. The hope with dutasteride would be to actually strengthen thin areas, and from what I know cases of actually regrowing anything are rare. No one else in my family has hair loss to the degree I do. No one. I got it the worst by far; there is no comparison to me. My grandfather on my Mom's side is maybe a NW4 at almost 80. Grandfather on Dad's side was maybe NW5-6 by age 40-50. Dad is NW 5-6 by age 50. I was NW6 at early 20s. So far beyond any comparisons I can even make to family. I know that if I were to talk to Pittella, as someone once mentioned here, he would tell me not to worry about taking fin or dut.

That does make it tough to decide then if you have no point of reference, I just don't like the idea of staying on something for life, but if your not getting any sides then maybe worth a shot? As for where your at currently and where you want to get too, I am in the same boat, I want one last pass for the native border they have not touched (even though I kept asking when there) thinned out so all parts look the same and natural. I think like you said with Zarev he has done that in Mtb's case and I think it makes total sense for a total natural blend between the harvested and transplanted regions. I am going to push Eugenix hard on this next procedure to do just this and hopefully have a total homogenous look to the donor etc

Edited November 3, 2023 by Stewie

[asterix0]

@general-etwan, you would be looking at over 50 thousand euros to get the coverage you need, probably close to 60 thousand euros if you went with Dr. Zarev. 

 

[general-etwan]

12 minutes ago, asterix0 said:

@general-etwan, you would be looking at over 50 thousand euros to get the coverage you need, probably close to 60 thousand euros if you went with Dr. Zarev. 

 

Yea, sorry, not happening!

If I do a 3rd procedure, I will push whoever does it to really utilize up to all borders and homogenize as much as possible at this point. I believe even the messy looking hair lower on the back of the neck should be used (the hair that gets mostly shaved by barbers), as Zarev sometimes does. It will at least remain strong for many years. 

[Stewie]

1 hour ago, general-etwan said:

Yea, sorry, not happening!

If I do a 3rd procedure, I will push whoever does it to really utilize up to all borders and homogenize as much as possible at this point. I believe even the messy looking hair lower on the back of the neck should be used (the hair that gets mostly shaved by barbers), as Zarev sometimes does. It will at least remain strong for many years. 

Literally just had a consultation today with Eugenix pushing this exact same agenda, it took me a while to convince them, but its something I want doing too, as makes no sense having a native hair horseshoe on my head  

[general-etwan]

2 hours ago, Stewie said:

Literally just had a consultation today with Eugenix pushing this exact same agenda, it took me a while to convince them, but its something I want doing too, as makes no sense having a native hair horseshoe on my head  

So they eventually agreed to that general plan?

[Stewie]

1 hour ago, general-etwan said:

So they eventually agreed to that general plan?

funny enough they did and literally about an hour ago I got another WhatsApp call kind of back tracking. bit, saying they'll do what I asked and then banging on about using all my beard grafts for donor farming even though I told them my donor does not bother me. It was kind of like this last time and I really had to fight hard to get them to do what I wanted, I feel lll have a similar battle this time, as now they are going on about maybe 1000-1500 scalp grafts which is all good but then hardly any beard even though this could be used for density, so lets see, I am sure ill get there with them in the end

[Al - Moderator]

17 minutes ago, Stewie said:

funny enough they did and literally about an hour ago I got another WhatsApp call kind of back tracking. bit, saying they'll do what I asked and then banging on about using all my beard grafts for donor farming even though I told them my donor does not bother me. It was kind of like this last time and I really had to fight hard to get them to do what I wanted, I feel lll have a similar battle this time, as now they are going on about maybe 1000-1500 scalp grafts which is all good but then hardly any beard even though this could be used for density, so lets see, I am sure ill get there with them in the end

 

You are telling them your donor isn't bothering you, but it is. You are just seeing it as the upper perimeter being thicker and thinking that's the area that's bothering you. However if your donor was thicker and matched the upper perimeter then you wouldn't feel you need to do anything, so it's all a matter of how you look at it.

What Eugenix is telling you is that it's better to thicken the donor with some beard grafts to make it more even with the area above it rather than thin out that area above it. The reason is because over time both the donor area and that upper area between the donor and recipient can all thin out, so it's better in the long run to add some grafts that aren't going to thin later such as beard grafts.

 

[Stewie]

2 hours ago, BeHappy said:

 

You are telling them your donor isn't bothering you, but it is. You are just seeing it as the upper perimeter being thicker and thinking that's the area that's bothering you. However if your donor was thicker and matched the upper perimeter then you wouldn't feel you need to do anything, so it's all a matter of how you look at it.

What Eugenix is telling you is that it's better to thicken the donor with some beard grafts to make it more even with the area above it rather than thin out that area above it. The reason is because over time both the donor area and that upper area between the donor and recipient can all thin out, so it's better in the long run to add some grafts that aren't going to thin later such as beard grafts.

 

No I totally get your logic, but I am not worried about that looking at my families hair loss and where I have been since teens, I just want the thicker bits thinned out and density into the midscale, literally nothing else, dont want to waste beard grafts into my head, I honestly dont mind the look of it, what the first clinic did was batter the same area twice and thats thinner than anywhere else, but if the rest can look closer to that without being over the top then all good

[general-etwan]

On 11/3/2023 at 4:55 PM, BeHappy said:

 

You are telling them your donor isn't bothering you, but it is. You are just seeing it as the upper perimeter being thicker and thinking that's the area that's bothering you. However if your donor was thicker and matched the upper perimeter then you wouldn't feel you need to do anything, so it's all a matter of how you look at it.

What Eugenix is telling you is that it's better to thicken the donor with some beard grafts to make it more even with the area above it rather than thin out that area above it. The reason is because over time both the donor area and that upper area between the donor and recipient can all thin out, so it's better in the long run to add some grafts that aren't going to thin later such as beard grafts.

 

I understand the math of this, and I don't know for sure about Stewie, but I am not personally a fan of taking beard grafts and putting them in the donor. I think his donor is pretty universally thinned and so it's not a problematic look from a distance at all really. Why massacre the face to put thick grafts on the back and sides of the head? That would just make the back and sides more dense than the top, which is counterproductive to the redistribution goals of a hair transplant.

[general-etwan]

I don't know which of these pics I've shared before but I was looking back at some of my progress. It seems I really had great early growth from my procedures and then it kind of seems like the progress fell off or even got worse since then.

4 months after my first HT vs. 13 months after

 

 

March 2022 (6 months after first HT). It seemed the upper sides and lower crown area were regrowing a bit, compared to before and since then:

 

April 2022 (7 months after first HT), outside in the sun:

 

 

[Xanadu]

13 hours ago, general-etwan said:

I don't know which of these pics I've shared before but I was looking back at some of my progress. It seems I really had great early growth from my procedures and then it kind of seems like the progress fell off or even got worse since then.

4 months after my first HT vs. 13 months after

 

 

March 2022 (6 months after first HT). It seemed the upper sides and lower crown area were regrowing a bit, compared to before and since then:

 

April 2022 (7 months after first HT), outside in the sun:

 

 

I have followed your journey and it seems to me that you have improved. At first quite a lot and later a little. The 4 month pic just had more favorable lighting and angle

[Fox243]

On 11/5/2023 at 9:06 PM, general-etwan said:

I understand the math of this, and I don't know for sure about Stewie, but I am not personally a fan of taking beard grafts and putting them in the donor. I think his donor is pretty universally thinned and so it's not a problematic look from a distance at all really. Why massacre the face to put thick grafts on the back and sides of the head? That would just make the back and sides more dense than the top, which is counterproductive to the redistribution goals of a hair transplant.

Why do you think taking out beard graft "massacres" the face? I heard the scarring from removing beard grafts is close to nothing. I, for one, am hoping for my HT clinic to abuse my beard bc all that matter to me is the hair on the top of my head, but I want to understand why my view might be incorrect.

[general-etwan]

7 minutes ago, Fox243 said:

Why do you think taking out beard graft "massacres" the face? I heard the scarring from removing beard grafts is close to nothing. I, for one, am hoping for my HT clinic to abuse my beard bc all that matter to me is the hair on the top of my head, but I want to understand why my view might be incorrect.

I just meant in the case of which most or all of the beard hair would be moved to the scalp donor area. Massacre as in get rid of all your facial hair. I just wouldn't want to ever do that personally. A little stubble and facial hair can make a man look good sometimes.

[Fox243]

Just now, general-etwan said:

I just meant in the case of which most or all of the beard hair would be moved to the scalp donor area. Massacre as in get rid of all your facial hair. I just wouldn't want to ever do that personally. A little stubble and facial hair can make a man look good sometimes.

Ah I guess I'm referring more to under the chin as opposed to on the face. And yeah, wouldn't want all of it to be moved -- but would be fine with a thinner beard look.

[Capelli21]

Hey Ethan, I've been reading your recent updates and figured I'd chime in.  I feel EXACTLY the same as you, after both of my HTs I wanted things as homogeneous as possible, I too despise the horseshoe effect and want to minimize it as much as possible. 

I know it's been said by multiple people already but I would strongly urge you to learn to fade your own hair.   I personally have not had another person cut my hair in 20 years, I always do it myself.  I think the longer the top is, the more guards you're using and the trickier it becomes (like Melvin's photo, or the model's fade pic you posted).  But honestly, looking at the below pic, cutting this yourself would be a piece of cake.  

I would just cut the donor super low, to your taste (maybe a .5 guard, or no guard at all), right up to the horseshoe. Then just use the next highest guard number and sort of pull away as you cut into the longer hairs above.  I have my main bathroom mirror, and then I just use a handheld mirror to see the back.  During the 3 months post HT, I cut mine basically every single morning. 

Just my personal thoughts, before even THINKING about smp... because as you know well, the results from a 3rd HT are a year and a half away, and this could really hold you over in the meantime, giving you that same look you liked right after your barber visit.

I could maybe even make a little tutorial video next time I cut mine if you were interested at all. 

Just a thought 

 

 

[general-etwan]

On 11/8/2023 at 2:11 PM, Capelli21 said:

Hey Ethan, I've been reading your recent updates and figured I'd chime in.  I feel EXACTLY the same as you, after both of my HTs I wanted things as homogeneous as possible, I too despise the horseshoe effect and want to minimize it as much as possible. 

I know it's been said by multiple people already but I would strongly urge you to learn to fade your own hair.   I personally have not had another person cut my hair in 20 years, I always do it myself.  I think the longer the top is, the more guards you're using and the trickier it becomes (like Melvin's photo, or the model's fade pic you posted).  But honestly, looking at the below pic, cutting this yourself would be a piece of cake.  

I would just cut the donor super low, to your taste (maybe a .5 guard, or no guard at all), right up to the horseshoe. Then just use the next highest guard number and sort of pull away as you cut into the longer hairs above.  I have my main bathroom mirror, and then I just use a handheld mirror to see the back.  During the 3 months post HT, I cut mine basically every single morning. 

Just my personal thoughts, before even THINKING about smp... because as you know well, the results from a 3rd HT are a year and a half away, and this could really hold you over in the meantime, giving you that same look you liked right after your barber visit.

I could maybe even make a little tutorial video next time I cut mine if you were interested at all. 

Just a thought 

Yes, I'll definitely teach myself to do it at home when needed.

Part of me also wants to be able to grow my hair longer in the future. Sort of that medium messy length. We'll see how it goes.

[general-etwan]

5 months after 2nd, 14 months after 1st

 

 

About what I could have expected at this point, still looking rough and waiting for crown to come in stronger.

I think I also see what a 3rd procedure could entail. The area right behind the transplanted temples is now lighter and thinner, so I think a few hundred grafts need to go there both sides combined. I also want them to extract more grafts from my lower sideburns because the hair there is now too thick and dark compared to all the surrounding area. And I think scalp donor could give another 1-2,000 grafts to added density in the crown and/or on the top.

 

[Samson1]

It's my understanding that meds can help the donor area, particularly when experiencing retrograde alopecia?

 

Just curious why you wouldn't wait for Dr Zarev? I reckon at this stage you need someone who is meticulous about donor preservation to get you through your next transplant.

[general-etwan]

On 11/12/2023 at 3:47 PM, Samson1 said:

It's my understanding that meds can help the donor area, particularly when experiencing retrograde alopecia?

 

Just curious why you wouldn't wait for Dr Zarev? I reckon at this stage you need someone who is meticulous about donor preservation to get you through your next transplant.

I've been on finasteride since early 2021 but it's hard to say whether it does anything positive for me. The retrograde alopecia has certainly not gotten any better; I've had it since teens but it's remained pretty constant. I think it may look a little worse because of the donor area extractions through that area, too...even though they limited them in that area, they still took some.

It would be 4 years until I could have a procedure with Zarev and I can't afford it. That simple. I've had to spend money on other things in life. Student loans sacked me down too. I'm not chasing perfection, I'm chasing as maximized uniform distribution as possible for an overall acceptable look at all haircut lengths. 

I feel much closer now, and I think one more session of some redistribution and added density should push things into good territory.

[general-etwan]

Unfortunately I'm not seeing that things are coming in as well from the 2nd HT as they did in the 1st. 

Before any HTs vs. almost 6 months after 2nd HT:

 

Temple growth is strong but crown area isn't. Hoping it's just a little slow.

I'm thinking I'll need a 3rd HT roughly the size of the 2nd (around 3,000 grafts) of redistribution effort.

This is someone I know who has thin/low density hair all over, but does not show a high contrast horseshoe pattern of hair loss. This looks much superior to any ring pattern, and when he grows his hair out longer you can barely even tell he's diffuse thinned:

Anytime there's a sudden and drastic change in density along a boundary, it draws everyone's attention. My goal will be to lessen that as much as possible.

 

[hair_forever]

The rear area is slower, don't despair