Verteporfin HAIR REGENERATION HUMAN TRIAL Dr. Barghouthi *OFFICIAL THREAD

[Fabio69]

2 minutes ago, Jonathan said:

Yep unfortunately we wouldn’t be able to test that until they were fda approved, that’s why Verteporfin is so attractive to do tests with it’s already got a good safety profile and we don’t have to wait on the fda to approve of it.

Hey, thank you for your reply. I think with increasing the verteporfin dosage hopefully we will see great results. Once you eliminate scarring it cannot comeback.

What are your thoughts on GT20029 and HMI 115. Personally i think GT will be big game changer if works. As GT is a protac and as there are oral protacs which are further along in development. GT if works would stop and reverse miniturization due to it destroying all androgen receptors, plus it is in phase 2 in china and going into phase 2 in the US. 

[Jonathan]

26 minutes ago, Fabio69 said:

Hey, thank you for your reply. I think with increasing the verteporfin dosage hopefully we will see great results. Once you eliminate scarring it cannot comeback.

What are your thoughts on GT20029 and HMI 115. Personally i think GT will be big game changer if works. As GT is a protac and as there are oral protacs which are further along in development. GT if works would stop and reverse miniturization due to it destroying all androgen receptors, plus it is in phase 2 in china and going into phase 2 in the US. 

I haven’t researched much on HMI to be completely honest. GT20029 sounds amazing but the problem would be huge if it becomes systemic. I also don’t get how it destroys receptors if you have to take it forever. But either way if it’s shown to be safe will be a huge game changer.

[Fabio69]

4 minutes ago, Jonathan said:

I haven’t researched much on HMI to be completely honest. GT20029 sounds amazing but the problem would be huge if it becomes systemic. I also don’t get how it destroys receptors if you have to take it forever. But either way if it’s shown to be safe will be a huge game changer.

I think we should be good with systemic absorption as in the US and china. The safety for phase 1 was way better than prylutamide. So fingers crossed as long as it works this should be a winner. 

 

Have u seen cosmerna . Its a bit pricey. The tech is cool bit i think OLIX SmRNA will be better. 

[mr_peanutbutter]

12 minutes ago, Jonathan said:

I haven’t researched much on HMI to be completely honest. GT20029 sounds amazing but the problem would be huge if it becomes systemic. I also don’t get how it destroys receptors if you have to take it forever. But either way if it’s shown to be safe will be a huge game changer.

the receptors get renewed by the body every 2 weeks or so

[Hairgain]

5 hours ago, Fabio69 said:

Hey guys,

Is it possible to microwound scalp and inject verteporfin 

Also, are there any work being done on using FAK inhibitors for donor area , due to the potential of it being better than verteporfin.

Cheers

 

4 hours ago, Dieter987 said:

Yes that's interesting.

Is anything known about the efficacy of Verteporfin in contrast to FAK Inhibitors like VS-6062?

 

4 hours ago, Fabio69 said:

I watched this vid 

Folks,

   I'm brand new here on Hair Restoration Network with an account (this is my first post) although I've been following this particular thread for months. 

   In terms of the ideas and comments you folks are relaying in my view are definitely on the right path. 

   So here's a bit of news from behind the scenes. I've been in discussion with Dr. Bargouthi about doing a scarring alopecia study. I was not the first either to suggest that according to him. There is another group or individual involved in this prospect. I tried contacting the email address Dr. Bargouthi gave me to collaborate but so far haven't heard back. I recall Dr. Bargouthi telling me that the cost of this study would be US $15,000 roughly. In this we are looking to do a study of microneedling with Verteporfin applied, another with incision wounding of an old scalp scar injecting Verteporfin into it. I will add that doing a microneedling and Verteporfin study of a scarred area too would also make sense, not just to an area which has been subjected to the effects of androgenetic alopecia.

  So this is another factor involved and perhaps a fundraiser can be done through this online forum to get the study to take place? I am trying to contact multiple hair loss web sites now to find out what can be done to raise the capital needed to get this underway. 

   Recently I have contacted someone at scarringalopecia.org about trying to fund the study mentioned above, maybe doing a fundraiser through their organization but surprisingly the reply to me was no interest on their end! They did a costly survey months ago about people having scarring alopecia but this is not even something that had potential to cure the problem. I kind of think this organization doesn't like me much because I am outside of the groupthink and offer suggestions to them that are not standard, outside of the orthodoxy they espouse in diagnosing and dealing with scarring alopecia. I am also male and the group is made up of nearly all women, so I feel especially alienated given this by them. Any advice they offer is from what I've found not the right approach but then I have nothing against them either and am glad they are a resource that helps people find local hair loss specialists and their web site shows pictures of what scarring alopecia conditions look like. They post medical articles too related to scarring hair loss but nothing that has the real prospect of a potential cure. I tell them about technologies in diagnosing hair loss that they never heard of and when I ask for their opinion about my findings they take note and don't reply. I feel they aren't doing as much as they could at least for me. They look to raise revenues but so far am not excited about their programs or research. 

  I believe I have scarring alopecia but no hair related professional has diagnosed me with it. So far they say I've got androgenetic alopecia, telogen effluvium, natural hair parting and early on it was seborrheic dermatitis (an early clue it really is potentially a scarring alopecia). I did not do a biopsy but have gone through many other non-invasive tests. I say no to biopsies as in all cases it leaves scarring, which is what I am looking to prevent. The only time I may consider it is if a YAP or FAK inhibitor is injected after the wound in that there is potential for it to heal with normal tissue and follicle unit neogenesis. Not only that but let's face it, a scalp biopsy hurts and maybe can lead to permanent nerve damage as with any hair transplant procedure done incorrectly. I've seen the results of people who've had scalp biopsies and are left with a big bald spot. I think a new standard protocol must be if a scalp biopsy is administered, Verteporfin must be applied to the wound or a FAK inhibitor such as VS-6062. 

  What is on my wish list is for Dr. Bargouthi to find a way to get the FAK inhibitor, VS-6062 tested in human subjects. The results shown in the red duroc pigs looked quite promising and as the video posted pointed out the healing process occurred quicker than with YAP inhibitor Verteporfin. I suspect but cannot prove that the VS-6062 may even grow more dense hair. The VS-6062 may have more pathways towards healing than Verteporfin. It is my opinion that use of VS-6062 is the better choice yet maybe harder to obtain.  

  Basically, in America, what has been holding the researchers back is approval to use this VS-6062 in human subjects. If it's worked in porcine models without issue then why not go on to test in human subjects next? How will we know if we don't try? It is these gatekeeping agencies like the FDA that are delaying and tying the hands behind the work these scientists are looking to accomplish through a slow and costly bureaucratic process. This should not be the case and the FDA needs to step aside regarding this and should a volunteer get hurt let the legal process sort this out. Almost as bad is many American doctors refuse to do safe procedures on patients unless the FDA has approved them first. I think the FDA needs to take on a much more passive roll as a body of suggestion rather than dictator of what is and isn't allowed. We need a libertarian design to get ahead regarding medical progress for people. Also mice are lousy test models for anything skin and hair related in regards to people. I and every hair loss sufferer is so sick of hearing that something regrew hair in mice because it never translates to working in humans. The new pre-clinical model should be the pig first, not the mouse or rat.

  It is at Stanford University, the Longacre Lab that pioneered the research behind Verteporfin and VS-6062. Here are the individuals behind the research: Dr. Michael T. Longaker's Profile | Stanford Profiles and Researchers find drug that enables healing without scarring | News Center | Stanford Medicine and please read FAK Inhibitors, Cassiopea and Drew Brees | Hair Loss Cure 2020.   

  Getting back to the VS-6062 compound, I've learned that it doesn't even need injection into the skin for it to work. Topically applied it seems to do the job. Although Verteporfin is a workable solution, the VS-6062 seems better, easier to use and perhaps more effective. It is my suggestion we go with this instead if it is possible to obtain from a reliable source. It would be great if Dr. Bargouthi could experiment with this FAK inhibitor, VS-6062 and compare the efficacy between the two. This is best as we will know which one has the preferred outcome. 

  Another avenue to explore is multi-therapy. Perhaps combining this with implanting cloned follicles may produce even greater hair coverage and density, that is assuming there is enough vascularity to accommodate the new hairs being introduced or perhaps the steps might have to be done separated by time to allow new blood vessels or capillaries to form. First say the wounding and drugs are used then a few months later cloned follicles can be added if density isn't quite satisfactory. 

  So I've composed many of my thoughts. I'd like the users of this group's input as we go forward with ideas behind Dr. Bargouthi's research. If perhaps enough have thoughtful or shared opinions it could be decisive in where Dr. Bargouthi will focus his energies and funding into future research. 

  Above all I am very appreciative of Dr. Bargouthi's research and outreach to the community of hair loss sufferers. He is someone that sadly few doctors today emulate. Most just follow the standard, the rules of the powers that be and simply want to make a comfortable living. The people/doctors/scientists though who contribute their time and funds to make positive change are the ones though who will be remembered, truly loved and that is people such as Dr. Bargouthi.  

   

[Fabio69]

24 minutes ago, Hairgain said:

 

 

Folks,

   I'm brand new here on Hair Restoration Network with an account (this is my first post) although I've been following this particular thread for months. 

   In terms of the ideas and comments you folks are relaying in my view are definitely on the right path. 

   So here's a bit of news from behind the scenes. I've been in discussion with Dr. Bargouthi about doing a scarring alopecia study. I was not the first either to suggest that according to him. There is another group or individual involved in this prospect. I tried contacting the email address Dr. Bargouthi gave me to collaborate but so far haven't heard back. I recall Dr. Bargouthi telling me that the cost of this study would be US $15,000 roughly. In this we are looking to do a study of microneedling with Verteporfin applied, another with incision wounding of an old scalp scar injecting Verteporfin into it. I will add that doing a microneedling and Verteporfin study of a scarred area too would also make sense, not just to an area which has been subjected to the effects of androgenetic alopecia.

  So this is another factor involved and perhaps a fundraiser can be done through this online forum to get the study to take place? I am trying to contact multiple hair loss web sites now to find out what can be done to raise the capital needed to get this underway. 

   Recently I have contacted someone at scarringalopecia.org about trying to fund the study mentioned above, maybe doing a fundraiser through their organization but surprisingly the reply to me was no interest on their end! They did a costly survey months ago about people having scarring alopecia but this is not even something that had potential to cure the problem. I kind of think this organization doesn't like me much because I am outside of the groupthink and offer suggestions to them that are not standard, outside of the orthodoxy they espouse in diagnosing and dealing with scarring alopecia. I am also male and the group is made up of nearly all women, so I feel especially alienated given this by them. Any advice they offer is from what I've found not the right approach but then I have nothing against them either and am glad they are a resource that helps people find local hair loss specialists and their web site shows pictures of what scarring alopecia conditions look like. They post medical articles too related to scarring hair loss but nothing that has the real prospect of a potential cure. I tell them about technologies in diagnosing hair loss that they never heard of and when I ask for their opinion about my findings they take note and don't reply. I feel they aren't doing as much as they could at least for me. They look to raise revenues but so far am not excited about their programs or research. 

  I believe I have scarring alopecia but no hair related professional has diagnosed me with it. So far they say I've got androgenetic alopecia, telogen effluvium, natural hair parting and early on it was seborrheic dermatitis (an early clue it really is potentially a scarring alopecia). I did not do a biopsy but have gone through many other non-invasive tests. I say no to biopsies as in all cases it leaves scarring, which is what I am looking to prevent. The only time I may consider it is if a YAP or FAK inhibitor is injected after the wound in that there is potential for it to heal with normal tissue and follicle unit neogenesis. Not only that but let's face it, a scalp biopsy hurts and maybe can lead to permanent nerve damage as with any hair transplant procedure done incorrectly. I've seen the results of people who've had scalp biopsies and are left with a big bald spot. I think a new standard protocol must be if a scalp biopsy is administered, Verteporfin must be applied to the wound or a FAK inhibitor such as VS-6062. 

  What is on my wish list is for Dr. Bargouthi to find a way to get the FAK inhibitor, VS-6062 tested in human subjects. The results shown in the red duroc pigs looked quite promising and as the video posted pointed out the healing process occurred quicker than with YAP inhibitor Verteporfin. I suspect but cannot prove that the VS-6062 may even grow more dense hair. The VS-6062 may have more pathways towards healing than Verteporfin. It is my opinion that use of VS-6062 is the better choice yet maybe harder to obtain.  

  Basically, in America, what has been holding the researchers back is approval to use this VS-6062 in human subjects. If it's worked in porcine models without issue then why not go on to test in human subjects next? How will we know if we don't try? It is these gatekeeping agencies like the FDA that are delaying and tying the hands behind the work these scientists are looking to accomplish through a slow and costly bureaucratic process. This should not be the case and the FDA needs to step aside regarding this and should a volunteer get hurt let the legal process sort this out. Almost as bad is many American doctors refuse to do safe procedures on patients unless the FDA has approved them first. I think the FDA needs to take on a much more passive roll as a body of suggestion rather than dictator of what is and isn't allowed. We need a libertarian design to get ahead regarding medical progress for people. Also mice are lousy test models for anything skin and hair related in regards to people. I and every hair loss sufferer is so sick of hearing that something regrew hair in mice because it never translates to working in humans. The new pre-clinical model should be the pig first, not the mouse or rat.

  It is at Stanford University, the Longacre Lab that pioneered the research behind Verteporfin and VS-6062. Here are the individuals behind the research: Dr. Michael T. Longaker's Profile | Stanford Profiles and Researchers find drug that enables healing without scarring | News Center | Stanford Medicine and please read FAK Inhibitors, Cassiopea and Drew Brees | Hair Loss Cure 2020.   

  Getting back to the VS-6062 compound, I've learned that it doesn't even need injection into the skin for it to work. Topically applied it seems to do the job. Although Verteporfin is a workable solution, the VS-6062 seems better, easier to use and perhaps more effective. It is my suggestion we go with this instead if it is possible to obtain from a reliable source. It would be great if Dr. Bargouthi could experiment with this FAK inhibitor, VS-6062 and compare the efficacy between the two. This is best as we will know which one has the preferred outcome. 

  Another avenue to explore is multi-therapy. Perhaps combining this with implanting cloned follicles may produce even greater hair coverage and density, that is assuming there is enough vascularity to accommodate the new hairs being introduced or perhaps the steps might have to be done separated by time to allow new blood vessels or capillaries to form. First say the wounding and drugs are used then a few months later cloned follicles can be added if density isn't quite satisfactory. 

  So I've composed many of my thoughts. I'd like the users of this group's input as we go forward with ideas behind Dr. Bargouthi's research. If perhaps enough have thoughtful or shared opinions it could be decisive in where Dr. Bargouthi will focus his energies and funding into future research. 

  Above all I am very appreciative of Dr. Bargouthi's research and outreach to the community of hair loss sufferers. He is someone that sadly few doctors today emulate. Most just follow the standard, the rules of the powers that be and simply want to make a comfortable living. The people/doctors/scientists though who contribute their time and funds to make positive change are the ones though who will be remembered, truly loved and that is people such as Dr. Bargouthi.  

   

Hi hairgain, 

 

I absolutely agree with you. Us individuals want this trialed and tested for the NOW, the industry works at a snails pace. I am also regular on reddit so will try and push this on tressless, and other forums to gain traction and attention. We just need to keep pushing this. Look at the indivual who donated $15,000 on verteporfin.org, there are many inidivuals who essentially have the money and would like to fund such causes. 

[Melvin- Admin]

8 minutes ago, Fabio69 said:

Hi hairgain, 

 

I absolutely agree with you. Us individuals want this trialed and tested for the NOW, the industry works at a snails pace. I am also regular on reddit so will try and push this on tressless, and other forums to gain traction and attention. We just need to keep pushing this. Look at the indivual who donated $15,000 on verteporfin.org, there are many inidivuals who essentially have the money and would like to fund such causes. 

Spreading the word is the best way to make things happen. I'm going to be completely honest with you guys. Doctors and researchers need to be motivated. They're unlikely to fund a study that few niche people are interested in. Just look at how big CosmeRNA has gotten. That's a treatment that wouldn't cure hair loss, either. This could potentially be a cure when combined with surgery. 

I'm going to the LA Hair Restoration Conference this Saturday. I'm going to be interviewing several doctors. I will show them the results so far from Dr. Barghouthi, and I will try and get as many on-board with doing their own trial. The more surgeons, the more patients, the more data we have. But the key is getting traction. If there's a demand, it will happen. I'm going to do my part, but I ask everyone participating in this thread to do your part as well. 

[Fabio69]

7 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Spreading the word is the best way to make things happen. I'm going to be completely honest with you guys. Doctors and researchers need to be motivated. They're unlikely to fund a study that few niche people are interested in. Just look at how big CosmeRNA has gotten. That's a treatment that wouldn't cure hair loss, either. This could potentially be a cure when combined with surgery. 

I'm going to the LA Hair Restoration Conference this Saturday. I'm going to be interviewing several doctors. I will show them the results so far from Dr. Barghouthi, and I will try and get as many on-board with doing their own trial. The more surgeons, the more patients, the more data we have. But the key is getting traction. If there's a demand, it will happen. I'm going to do my part, but I ask everyone participating in this thread to do your part as well. 

Absolutely melvin, i agree. I will try my best to push on all platforms. 

Melvin is there anyway you could use the likes of kevin mann, hairlisciouly, matt dominance etc (hair youtubers to spread the word) due to your online presence. 

Also, when you go to the convention could you see if they would push fak inhibitors as they maybe better than verteporfin. 

Lastly, could you see if anyone would do a study on verteporfin and microneedling.

Thank you for your work Melvin, this is the time to fight for follicles.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Fabio69

[Melvin- Admin]

55 minutes ago, Fabio69 said:

Absolutely melvin, i agree. I will try my best to push on all platforms. 

Melvin is there anyway you could use the likes of kevin mann, hairlisciouly, matt dominance etc (hair youtubers to spread the word) due to your online presence. 

Also, when you go to the convention could you see if they would push fak inhibitors as they maybe better than verteporfin. 

Lastly, could you see if anyone would do a study on verteporfin and microneedling.

Thank you for your work Melvin, this is the time to fight for follicles.

I haven't reached out to these YouTubers. Although I believe some of my YouTube followers linked my podcast to Kevin Mann, I don't know if he's interested. Getting these guys on board is something that we should probably do. If you have these guys' emails, please send them to me via PM so I can reach out to them.

I'm also enlisting the help of my friend from Folliclethought as well.

 

For those of you who wanted a short version of the latest update. Here is Dr. Barghouthi showing the most promising concentration 0.4

 

[FutureDensity]

Hi all, been on the site for awhile but finally created an account. I’ve read through this thread the last few months and watched Dr. Barghouthi’s interview with Melvin, but haven’t found the answer I’m looking for. 

From page 8 of this thread Dr. B mentions each injection is per cm2. So say the next dose he tries is 0.5mg per cm2, does anyone know roughly how many cm2 a 2000 graft extraction procedure is? 

Estimating donor recipient area is easy going by number of grafts per cm2 being implanted, but to my knowledge the extraction of those grafts is done across a much wider area of course as you’re not going to simply extract 40 grafts from one cm2 to be implanted in another cm2.

If 15mg bottles of verteporfin cost roughly $1800, i’m trying to estimate how many total mg would cost and be needed for a 2000 graft procedure. Thanks in advance to anyone who has insight they can share.

Edit: to tag @DrTBarghouthi, thanks @Melvin- Moderator

Edited April 27, 2023 by FutureDensity
added tag

[Melvin- Admin]

3 minutes ago, FutureDensity said:

Hi all, been on the site for awhile but finally created an account. I’ve read through this thread the last few months and watched Dr. Barghouthi’s interview with Melvin, but haven’t found the answer I’m looking for. 

From page 8 of this thread Dr. B mentions each injection is per cm2. So say the next dose he tries is 0.5mg per cm2, does anyone know roughly how many cm2 a 2000 graft extraction procedure is?

If 15mg bottles of verteporfin cost roughly $1800, i’m trying to estimate how many total mg would cost and be needed for a 2000 graft procedure. Thanks in advance to anyone who has insight they can share.

You can tag Dr. Barghouthi directly @DrTBarghouthi he would probably be the best person to answer.

[Hairgain]

I just thought of this today. I'd like to understand exactly the difference in the mechanism of how YAP inhibitors and FAK inhibitors work. I think if we understand this, then we've got a better general idea of why one would work differently or better than the other. 

[alopeciaphobia]

4 hours ago, Hairgain said:

 

 

Folks,

   I'm brand new here on Hair Restoration Network with an account (this is my first post) although I've been following this particular thread for months. 

   In terms of the ideas and comments you folks are relaying in my view are definitely on the right path. 

   So here's a bit of news from behind the scenes. I've been in discussion with Dr. Bargouthi about doing a scarring alopecia study. I was not the first either to suggest that according to him. There is another group or individual involved in this prospect. I tried contacting the email address Dr. Bargouthi gave me to collaborate but so far haven't heard back. I recall Dr. Bargouthi telling me that the cost of this study would be US $15,000 roughly. In this we are looking to do a study of microneedling with Verteporfin applied, another with incision wounding of an old scalp scar injecting Verteporfin into it. I will add that doing a microneedling and Verteporfin study of a scarred area too would also make sense, not just to an area which has been subjected to the effects of androgenetic alopecia.

  So this is another factor involved and perhaps a fundraiser can be done through this online forum to get the study to take place? I am trying to contact multiple hair loss web sites now to find out what can be done to raise the capital needed to get this underway. 

   Recently I have contacted someone at scarringalopecia.org about trying to fund the study mentioned above, maybe doing a fundraiser through their organization but surprisingly the reply to me was no interest on their end! They did a costly survey months ago about people having scarring alopecia but this is not even something that had potential to cure the problem. I kind of think this organization doesn't like me much because I am outside of the groupthink and offer suggestions to them that are not standard, outside of the orthodoxy they espouse in diagnosing and dealing with scarring alopecia. I am also male and the group is made up of nearly all women, so I feel especially alienated given this by them. Any advice they offer is from what I've found not the right approach but then I have nothing against them either and am glad they are a resource that helps people find local hair loss specialists and their web site shows pictures of what scarring alopecia conditions look like. They post medical articles too related to scarring hair loss but nothing that has the real prospect of a potential cure. I tell them about technologies in diagnosing hair loss that they never heard of and when I ask for their opinion about my findings they take note and don't reply. I feel they aren't doing as much as they could at least for me. They look to raise revenues but so far am not excited about their programs or research. 

  I believe I have scarring alopecia but no hair related professional has diagnosed me with it. So far they say I've got androgenetic alopecia, telogen effluvium, natural hair parting and early on it was seborrheic dermatitis (an early clue it really is potentially a scarring alopecia). I did not do a biopsy but have gone through many other non-invasive tests. I say no to biopsies as in all cases it leaves scarring, which is what I am looking to prevent. The only time I may consider it is if a YAP or FAK inhibitor is injected after the wound in that there is potential for it to heal with normal tissue and follicle unit neogenesis. Not only that but let's face it, a scalp biopsy hurts and maybe can lead to permanent nerve damage as with any hair transplant procedure done incorrectly. I've seen the results of people who've had scalp biopsies and are left with a big bald spot. I think a new standard protocol must be if a scalp biopsy is administered, Verteporfin must be applied to the wound or a FAK inhibitor such as VS-6062. 

  What is on my wish list is for Dr. Bargouthi to find a way to get the FAK inhibitor, VS-6062 tested in human subjects. The results shown in the red duroc pigs looked quite promising and as the video posted pointed out the healing process occurred quicker than with YAP inhibitor Verteporfin. I suspect but cannot prove that the VS-6062 may even grow more dense hair. The VS-6062 may have more pathways towards healing than Verteporfin. It is my opinion that use of VS-6062 is the better choice yet maybe harder to obtain.  

  Basically, in America, what has been holding the researchers back is approval to use this VS-6062 in human subjects. If it's worked in porcine models without issue then why not go on to test in human subjects next? How will we know if we don't try? It is these gatekeeping agencies like the FDA that are delaying and tying the hands behind the work these scientists are looking to accomplish through a slow and costly bureaucratic process. This should not be the case and the FDA needs to step aside regarding this and should a volunteer get hurt let the legal process sort this out. Almost as bad is many American doctors refuse to do safe procedures on patients unless the FDA has approved them first. I think the FDA needs to take on a much more passive roll as a body of suggestion rather than dictator of what is and isn't allowed. We need a libertarian design to get ahead regarding medical progress for people. Also mice are lousy test models for anything skin and hair related in regards to people. I and every hair loss sufferer is so sick of hearing that something regrew hair in mice because it never translates to working in humans. The new pre-clinical model should be the pig first, not the mouse or rat.

  It is at Stanford University, the Longacre Lab that pioneered the research behind Verteporfin and VS-6062. Here are the individuals behind the research: Dr. Michael T. Longaker's Profile | Stanford Profiles and Researchers find drug that enables healing without scarring | News Center | Stanford Medicine and please read FAK Inhibitors, Cassiopea and Drew Brees | Hair Loss Cure 2020.   

  Getting back to the VS-6062 compound, I've learned that it doesn't even need injection into the skin for it to work. Topically applied it seems to do the job. Although Verteporfin is a workable solution, the VS-6062 seems better, easier to use and perhaps more effective. It is my suggestion we go with this instead if it is possible to obtain from a reliable source. It would be great if Dr. Bargouthi could experiment with this FAK inhibitor, VS-6062 and compare the efficacy between the two. This is best as we will know which one has the preferred outcome. 

  Another avenue to explore is multi-therapy. Perhaps combining this with implanting cloned follicles may produce even greater hair coverage and density, that is assuming there is enough vascularity to accommodate the new hairs being introduced or perhaps the steps might have to be done separated by time to allow new blood vessels or capillaries to form. First say the wounding and drugs are used then a few months later cloned follicles can be added if density isn't quite satisfactory. 

  So I've composed many of my thoughts. I'd like the users of this group's input as we go forward with ideas behind Dr. Bargouthi's research. If perhaps enough have thoughtful or shared opinions it could be decisive in where Dr. Bargouthi will focus his energies and funding into future research. 

  Above all I am very appreciative of Dr. Bargouthi's research and outreach to the community of hair loss sufferers. He is someone that sadly few doctors today emulate. Most just follow the standard, the rules of the powers that be and simply want to make a comfortable living. The people/doctors/scientists though who contribute their time and funds to make positive change are the ones though who will be remembered, truly loved and that is people such as Dr. Bargouthi.  

   

Getting an official diagnosis first might make it a lot easier to find funding.

[Hairgain]

49 minutes ago, alopeciaphobia said:

Getting an official diagnosis first might make it a lot easier to find funding.

I don't understand the logic to your statement. We're trying to come up with a cure for both scarring and non-scarring alopecia types and find a way to regenerate the donor area with hair should a hair transplant be considered. I personally think once the cure is found that hair transplantation will not be a needed option. It will be a matter of simply healing scarred tissue from which hair follicles are generated thereafter. Don't worry either that it will cause unemployment, instead it will be that surgeons will be retrained to accomplish the newer method at hair restoration. Think of it like the computer largely replacing the typewriter. Additionally, for me personally I did get an official diagnosis of androgenic alopecia. All that was found based on dermoscopy, HairMetrix and reflectance confocal microscopy in the trouble spot was androgenic alopecia with a terminal-vellus ratio of 5.3 to 1 hair follicle count/187 cm squared with average hair thickness of 48 μm. I honestly think the cure is coming soon, so to biopsy doesn't seem worth doing. Let the cure come, fix the thin spots and problem solved (hopefully). 

Edited April 27, 2023 by Hairgain

[Hairgain]

15 hours ago, Fabio69 said:

Hey guys,

Is it possible to microwound scalp and inject verteporfin 

Also, are there any work being done on using FAK inhibitors for donor area , due to the potential of it being better than verteporfin.

Cheers

I second this. If Melvin could mention at the convention to work with FAK inhibitors as well for human testing I would really appreciate this. 

[Alex11]

13 hours ago, Hairgain said:

 

 

Folks,

   I'm brand new here on Hair Restoration Network with an account (this is my first post) although I've been following this particular thread for months. 

   In terms of the ideas and comments you folks are relaying in my view are definitely on the right path. 

   So here's a bit of news from behind the scenes. I've been in discussion with Dr. Bargouthi about doing a scarring alopecia study. I was not the first either to suggest that according to him. There is another group or individual involved in this prospect. I tried contacting the email address Dr. Bargouthi gave me to collaborate but so far haven't heard back. I recall Dr. Bargouthi telling me that the cost of this study would be US $15,000 roughly. In this we are looking to do a study of microneedling with Verteporfin applied, another with incision wounding of an old scalp scar injecting Verteporfin into it. I will add that doing a microneedling and Verteporfin study of a scarred area too would also make sense, not just to an area which has been subjected to the effects of androgenetic alopecia.

  So this is another factor involved and perhaps a fundraiser can be done through this online forum to get the study to take place? I am trying to contact multiple hair loss web sites now to find out what can be done to raise the capital needed to get this underway. 

   Recently I have contacted someone at scarringalopecia.org about trying to fund the study mentioned above, maybe doing a fundraiser through their organization but surprisingly the reply to me was no interest on their end! They did a costly survey months ago about people having scarring alopecia but this is not even something that had potential to cure the problem. I kind of think this organization doesn't like me much because I am outside of the groupthink and offer suggestions to them that are not standard, outside of the orthodoxy they espouse in diagnosing and dealing with scarring alopecia. I am also male and the group is made up of nearly all women, so I feel especially alienated given this by them. Any advice they offer is from what I've found not the right approach but then I have nothing against them either and am glad they are a resource that helps people find local hair loss specialists and their web site shows pictures of what scarring alopecia conditions look like. They post medical articles too related to scarring hair loss but nothing that has the real prospect of a potential cure. I tell them about technologies in diagnosing hair loss that they never heard of and when I ask for their opinion about my findings they take note and don't reply. I feel they aren't doing as much as they could at least for me. They look to raise revenues but so far am not excited about their programs or research. 

  I believe I have scarring alopecia but no hair related professional has diagnosed me with it. So far they say I've got androgenetic alopecia, telogen effluvium, natural hair parting and early on it was seborrheic dermatitis (an early clue it really is potentially a scarring alopecia). I did not do a biopsy but have gone through many other non-invasive tests. I say no to biopsies as in all cases it leaves scarring, which is what I am looking to prevent. The only time I may consider it is if a YAP or FAK inhibitor is injected after the wound in that there is potential for it to heal with normal tissue and follicle unit neogenesis. Not only that but let's face it, a scalp biopsy hurts and maybe can lead to permanent nerve damage as with any hair transplant procedure done incorrectly. I've seen the results of people who've had scalp biopsies and are left with a big bald spot. I think a new standard protocol must be if a scalp biopsy is administered, Verteporfin must be applied to the wound or a FAK inhibitor such as VS-6062. 

  What is on my wish list is for Dr. Bargouthi to find a way to get the FAK inhibitor, VS-6062 tested in human subjects. The results shown in the red duroc pigs looked quite promising and as the video posted pointed out the healing process occurred quicker than with YAP inhibitor Verteporfin. I suspect but cannot prove that the VS-6062 may even grow more dense hair. The VS-6062 may have more pathways towards healing than Verteporfin. It is my opinion that use of VS-6062 is the better choice yet maybe harder to obtain.  

  Basically, in America, what has been holding the researchers back is approval to use this VS-6062 in human subjects. If it's worked in porcine models without issue then why not go on to test in human subjects next? How will we know if we don't try? It is these gatekeeping agencies like the FDA that are delaying and tying the hands behind the work these scientists are looking to accomplish through a slow and costly bureaucratic process. This should not be the case and the FDA needs to step aside regarding this and should a volunteer get hurt let the legal process sort this out. Almost as bad is many American doctors refuse to do safe procedures on patients unless the FDA has approved them first. I think the FDA needs to take on a much more passive roll as a body of suggestion rather than dictator of what is and isn't allowed. We need a libertarian design to get ahead regarding medical progress for people. Also mice are lousy test models for anything skin and hair related in regards to people. I and every hair loss sufferer is so sick of hearing that something regrew hair in mice because it never translates to working in humans. The new pre-clinical model should be the pig first, not the mouse or rat.

  It is at Stanford University, the Longacre Lab that pioneered the research behind Verteporfin and VS-6062. Here are the individuals behind the research: Dr. Michael T. Longaker's Profile | Stanford Profiles and Researchers find drug that enables healing without scarring | News Center | Stanford Medicine and please read FAK Inhibitors, Cassiopea and Drew Brees | Hair Loss Cure 2020.   

  Getting back to the VS-6062 compound, I've learned that it doesn't even need injection into the skin for it to work. Topically applied it seems to do the job. Although Verteporfin is a workable solution, the VS-6062 seems better, easier to use and perhaps more effective. It is my suggestion we go with this instead if it is possible to obtain from a reliable source. It would be great if Dr. Bargouthi could experiment with this FAK inhibitor, VS-6062 and compare the efficacy between the two. This is best as we will know which one has the preferred outcome. 

  Another avenue to explore is multi-therapy. Perhaps combining this with implanting cloned follicles may produce even greater hair coverage and density, that is assuming there is enough vascularity to accommodate the new hairs being introduced or perhaps the steps might have to be done separated by time to allow new blood vessels or capillaries to form. First say the wounding and drugs are used then a few months later cloned follicles can be added if density isn't quite satisfactory. 

  So I've composed many of my thoughts. I'd like the users of this group's input as we go forward with ideas behind Dr. Bargouthi's research. If perhaps enough have thoughtful or shared opinions it could be decisive in where Dr. Bargouthi will focus his energies and funding into future research. 

  Above all I am very appreciative of Dr. Bargouthi's research and outreach to the community of hair loss sufferers. He is someone that sadly few doctors today emulate. Most just follow the standard, the rules of the powers that be and simply want to make a comfortable living. The people/doctors/scientists though who contribute their time and funds to make positive change are the ones though who will be remembered, truly loved and that is people such as Dr. Bargouthi.  

   

Scarring alopecia trials would provide tremendous insight for both the fields of scar revisions and hair restoration. Diagnosed with lichen planopilaris (now inactive/burnt out), I'm closely following this development!

[Hairgain]

1 hour ago, Alex11 said:

Scarring alopecia trials would provide tremendous insight for both the fields of scar revisions and hair restoration. Diagnosed with lichen planopilaris (now inactive/burnt out), I'm closely following this development!

Any idea what caused your lichen planopilaris? I think I have this condition but none of the dermatologists/trichologists/hair transplant surgeons I've seen can find it. It's frustrating. Sometimes it's such a minor manifestation that they just don't notice it. If they can't find the spot(s) then to biopsy won't even be accurate. Often lichen planopilaris gets mistaken for androgenetic alopecia, seborrheic dermatitis or even hair parts. I'm so sick of dermatologists. I think most of them really don't know what they're looking at. I would probably only trust someone like Jeff Donovan. That guy knows scarring alopecia like no other! 

I really want the human trials for FAK inhibitors VS-6062 and VS-6063 for hair follicle neogenesis. These scientists need to stop playing with animals and start curing diseases for humans. I tell you this, if scientists treated hair loss like they did COVID-19, we'd have had a cure for all hair loss yesterday, not having to wait just another 5 years to infinity/eternity. 

Edited April 28, 2023 by Hairgain

[Alex11]

5 minutes ago, Hairgain said:

Any idea what caused your lichen planopilaris? I think I have this condition but none of the dermatologists/trichologists/hair transplant surgeons I've seen can find it. It's frustrating. Sometimes it's such a minor manifestation that they just don't notice it. If they can't find the spot(s) then to biopsy won't even be accurate. Often lichen planopilaris gets mistaken for androgenetic alopecia, seborrheic dermatitis or even hair parts. I'm so sick of dermatologists. I think most of them really don't know what they're looking at. I would probably only trust someone like Jeff Donovan. That guy knows scarring alopecia like no other! 

No. As you probably know, the causes of these abnormal autoimmune responses are generally unknown. Let's keep this thread focused on Dr. Barghouthi's trials. Feel free to contact me in private. 🙂

[Square1]

58 minutes ago, Hairgain said:

I tell you this, if scientists treated hair loss like they did COVID-19, we'd have had a cure for all hair loss yesterday, not having to wait just another 5 years to infinity/eternity. 

That is why we are all so grateful to dr. Barghouthi, as he is one of the few people in the industry that is actually interested in kicking the ball forward rather than writing papers or raking in investment cash. 

[Fabio69]

17 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

You can tag Dr. Barghouthi directly @DrTBarghouthi he would probably be the best person to answer.

Hey melvin, it would not let me send you an message but  here are a few youtubers who would probs want to be involved

Matt dominance - Mattdominance@gmail.com

hairliciously -Hairliciously@gmail.com

hairlosscure2020 - Hairlosscure2020@gmail.com

i cannot find these other youtuber emails, but due to your platform u need to contact these guys they would be interested

Dr gary linkov
The hair transplant channel
Kevin mann

Edited April 28, 2023 by Fabio69

[Fabio69]

7 hours ago, Square1 said:

That is why we are all so grateful to dr. Barghouthi, as he is one of the few people in the industry that is actually interested in kicking the ball forward rather than writing papers or raking in investment cash. 

Agreed. Everything takes so bloody long. I have spread the word on tressless some people have been interested messaging me if they can participate, i just direct then to these posts. 

I am really interest in wounding the scalp via microneedling and injecting the verteporfin becuase if that was to work, no scarring/fibrosis surely means no hair loss. Take for instance the old man who burnt his scalp and regrew back his juvenile hairline even though he had been bald for decades.

[mr_peanutbutter]

On 4/23/2023 at 11:51 PM, Square1 said:

There isn't a business model around it. 

Let's say a big player in pharma funds this and finds a way to get 100% regrowth. How will that make them money?

well, the company producing verteporfin will make a lot of money then. many bald people who would need a ton of verteporfin

 

so they should have some self interest in pushing it - wonder why they sleeping on it

Edited April 28, 2023 by mr_peanutbutter

[mr_peanutbutter]

8 hours ago, Fabio69 said:

Hey melvin, it would not let me send you an message but  here are a few youtubers who would probs want to be involved

Matt dominance - Mattdominance@gmail.com

hairliciously -Hairliciously@gmail.com

hairlosscure2020 - Hairlosscure2020@gmail.com

i cannot find these other youtuber emails, but due to your platform u need to contact these guys they would be interested

Dr gary linkov
The hair transplant channel
Kevin mann

maybe message the pharmacy company who has the patent for verteporfin

[Fabio69]

10 minutes ago, mr_peanutbutter said:

maybe message the pharmacy company who has the patent for verteporfin

Verteporfin is used for Age-Related Macular Degeneration, but OLIX who are creating a siRNA similar to cosmerna have also created a RNAI for age related macular degeneration. I might be wrong but that could also be a potential.

[jwolfe890]

wondering how much more evidence is needed before surgeons can start incorporating this into procedures. i'm not expecting this to be a cure, but even a 10% reduction in scarring or hair regrowth in donor areas would be phenomenal.