After 7800 Grafts I am highly alerted because of Shockloss in the Donor

[didu911]

Hello,

I had 2 transplants:

First, in 2019 with Hattingen Hair, FUT 5200 Grafts

Second, 5 months ago with HLC, Fue 2600 Grafts

Unfortunately I already had some shock loss due to the FUT, especially in the area of the clamps (track trails).

I just kept my head short after the FUE until now and I am shocked about how it looks in the back after 5 months.

Even as HLC has told me to still have 2500 Grafts in the Donor after the procedure.  
 

I don’t know, after 5 months it shouldn’t look like this, and I am at the end and deadly depressed now.

 

Am I overreacting?

 

[BaldDude]

Did HLC say why they didn’t spread out more from the donor area?

[O Hare 57]

Need pic of head B4 any work done for comparison...  Could be temp or permanent.  See a dermatologist. 

 

Good luck...

[didu911]

Here is the before picture, indeed they spread it out, 1500 from the back and 500 from each side, while the sides look fine. 
unfortunately I didn’t take a picture on the second day

[THE TRUTH]

25 minutes ago, didu911 said:

Here is the before picture, indeed they spread it out, 1500 from the back and 500 from each side, while the sides look fine. 
unfortunately I didn’t take a picture on the second day

Hello Jan, 

I remember you from alopeziede. 

Just curiously did you get any significant regrowth on your native miniaturized hairs from Estrogen and Cyproterone Acetate ? 

I'm asking because I see more and more transgender guys on Transtimelines reddit getting SIGNIFICANT regrowth with the use of oral Estrogen, spiro and bicalutamide.

Better results than most surgical hair transplants on this forum...

And of course far better results than the classic Finasteride/Dutasteride + minoxidil combo....

By the way  how were the results of your 2nd surgery with Dr. Bekir ? He is the newest doc at HLC and he replaced Dr. Akin. 

There are no reviews of his work yet so it would be interesting to see what he is capable of ! 

As for your donor area, it's hard to say Jan...

On your before picture your hair is slightly longer so it is difficult to make an objective comparison...

What do you mean specifically by "shock loss" after your first procedure at Hattingen ? Temporary shock loss of hairs around the area where the strip was taken ? I honestly don't see any of that on the pictures you provided. 

Sure  you have reduced density at the back of the head after so many graft extractions  (which is inevitable)  but in my honest opinion it does not look "overharvested". Your hair is pretty short  in the first picture and  it  looks like it's pulled upwards (after sleeping on the pillow or rubbing with your hand ?) 

Sever & Laura Muresanu and Dr. Cengiz (especially Dr. Muresanu)  are both very experienced surgeons and I don't think they would even come close to overharvesting. 

I suggest you cut your hair at the exact same length as in the before picture and comb it normally so we can make a fair assessment. 

Ultimately if  you are concerned you can always get some beard grafts or SMP into your donor in order to homogenize it. 

All the best 

[gillenator]

didu911…on average, shocked hair follicles take 3-4 months to rest/recover before they resume their growth cycle; so the growth you have experienced since your recent procedure is probably 2 months worth of recovery…so there’s undoubtedly some more growth on the immediate horizon…so don’t give up hope! 

[Gatsby]

I know this is frustrating but it's a patience game post op. Even if you were to commence applying minoxidil, that alone could trigger a shed. There is more growth coming as @gillenator rightly said.

[didu911]

Well Hattingen, left me with this permanent loss, shown on the picture (but they offered me a FUE scar repair free of charge), that is why I am absolutely in fear of further permanent loss and also chose FUE instead of FUT for the second intervention. 

I was highly relying on that 2500 left grafts in Donor, which HLC told me is left after the second operation. 

I am absolutely shocked, even if I know it’s a waiting game, having in mind I lost the last battle already doesn’t help :/

 

[Al - Moderator]

The FUE grafts taken look spaced apart well and by looking at your pre op picture it looks like you had very good donor, so with that I'm thinking it's mostly still shock loss that hasn't grown back in yet.If that's the case then it should be thickening up nicely in the next few months.

 

[didu911]

2 hours ago, BeHappy said:

The FUE grafts taken look spaced apart well and by looking at your pre op picture it looks like you had very good donor, so with that I'm thinking it's mostly still shock loss that hasn't grown back in yet.If that's the case then it should be thickening up nicely in the next few months.

 

Thank you, I really hope and rely on the recvovery, as I planned another FUE with HDC with ~2000 Grafts in the Midcalp/Crown and a scar repair, as 2500 Grafts was what HLC told me to be left in the Donor.

It was not my intention to say that the donor is OVERHARVESTED, as HLC did a really clean job in extract those grafts. At the moment, it just looks like a typical overharvested donor, done by some hair mill (what is not the case, for sure).

 

Currently this situation is quite depressing, my plans are lay on ice, and if this situation holds on, I don't think I have any options:

- Beard: I had some decent one, but I am taking medication which vanish my Testosterone therefore my beard is mostly gone, and what is left, is fuzzy peach

- SMP: I feel more like a woman, so short hair style is nothing I woul feel right with 

 

 

 

[THE TRUTH]

2 hours ago, didu911 said:

Thank you, I really hope and rely on the recvovery, as I planned another FUE with HDC with ~2000 Grafts in the Midcalp/Crown and a scar repair, as 2500 Grafts was what HLC told me to be left in the Donor.

It was not my intention to say that the donor is OVERHARVESTED, as HLC did a really clean job in extract those grafts. At the moment, it just looks like a typical overharvested donor, done by some hair mill (what is not the case, for sure).

 

Currently this situation is quite depressing, my plans are lay on ice, and if this situation holds on, I don't think I have any options:

- Beard: I had some decent one, but I am taking medication which vanish my Testosterone therefore my beard is mostly gone, and what is left, is fuzzy peach

- SMP: I feel more like a woman, so short hair style is nothing I woul feel right with 

 

 

 

Wow really sorry to hear about that Jan... 

Now that u uploaded your Ieft profile pic I see exactly what u talking about...

Yeah  the strip caused some permanent shock loss in a small area...

If your 1st surgery was in 2019 and that little bald spot still hasn't recovered then chances are it's permanent 

 Hattingen is a worldclass clinic. I always recommend them  but this is another cautionnary tale that s*** happens everywhere....including in the best clinics...

At least they proved they are ethical and offered to fix it for free. 

I understand it bothers u but the good news is your surgery was very succesful with them on the recipient area !  You were pretty damn bald my man like Norwood 5 and I saw your results on the german hairloss forum and they are amazing ! 👍

Also  like I said your donor still looks fine. 

Since you are transitionning and no longer interested in keeping your beard hairs then why not get the remaining beard grafts below the chin transplanted into that small bald patch ? 

I think that just a couple hundreds grafts from the beard can help fix that pretty easily. 

Also that would allow you to save the remaining hairs from the donor area for further surgeries in case you need them like 15-20 years down the road even though I highly doubt you will ever need additionnal surgeries on something as strong as Estradiol + Androcur that is literally Derek's nuclear protocol. 😂

Don't rush into a 3rd surgery with HDC...

Let your 2nd surgery with HLC come to a full result. Fix the little bald spot issue with Hattingen first and see how it goes from there. 

Your situation is by no means dramatic and there is no reason to be unhappy or depressed. 

All the best and good luck. 

 

[didu911]

2 minutes ago, What is your agenda here said:

Wow really sorry to hear about that Jan... 

Now that u uploaded your Ieft profile pic I see exactly what u talking about...

Yeah  the strip caused some permanent shock loss in a small area...

If your 1st surgery was in 2019 and that little bald spot still hasn't recovered then chances are it's permanent 

 Hattingen is a worldclass clinic. I always recommend them  but this is another cautionnary tale that s*** happens everywhere....including in the best clinics...

At least they proved they are ethical and offered to fix it for free. 

I understand it bothers u but the good news is your surgery was very succesful with them on the recipient area !  You were pretty damn bald my man like Norwood 5 and I saw your results on the german hairloss forum and they are amazing ! 👍

Also  like I said your donor still looks fine. 

Since you are transitionning and no longer interested in keeping your beard hairs then why not get the remaining beard grafts below the chin transplanted into that small bald patch ? 

I think that just a couple hundreds grafts from the beard can help fix that pretty easily. 

Also that would allow you to save the remaining hairs from the donor area for further surgeries in case you need them like 15-20 years down the road even though I highly doubt you will ever need additionnal surgeries on something as strong as Estradiol + Androcur that is literally Derek's nuclear protocol. 😂

Don't rush into a 3rd surgery with HDC...

Let your 2nd surgery with HLC come to a full result. Fix the little bald spot issue with Hattingen first and see how it goes from there. 

Your situation is by no means dramatic and there is no reason to be unhappy or depressed. 

All the best and good luck. 

 

Thank you very much, this is quite encouraging!

I don't judge Hattingen Hair to do anything wrong and Sever was also very confused, that the shockloss was happening to me, as he said, that there was no pressure at the scar and I trust him. 

I said thankfully no to his offer about the free scar fixing, as I didn't know if I want to get a second FUT at this time, but finally I decided against it. 

About the Androcur + Estofrem medication: I don't know if it will bring hair back, atm I would say, maybe just slightly but I can really see that it kills all the androgens in my body: Hair heavily decreased, decreased sweating and skin oil, no acne anymore, no ability to ejaculate. T is basically nuked and so should be DHT. But the best of it, I don't get the mental sides that I had on FIN, like depressions, memory loss and brain fog, which was really bothering me.

About the Balding, you are quite right, 

this is the before:

 

 

and here, as of today:

 

 

Analyzing the recipient area, I am quite happy, but If I want to grow my hair out, a touch up in the mid sclap would really be necessary.

 

 

The donor area is another chapter, IHMO at the moment it is quite destroyed, and would require more than some patchy beard grafts (which I don't even know, will survice the medication, a lot has been miniturized already)

 

 

At the moment, I am just questioning all my decisions, even if I had chosen top clinics, this seems not to be a home run for me  

 

 

[Euphoria]

3 minutes ago, didu911 said:

Thank you very much, this is quite encouraging!

I don't judge Hattingen Hair to do anything wrong and Sever was also very confused, that the shockloss was happening to me, as he said, that there was no pressure at the scar and I trust him. 

I said thankfully no to his offer about the free scar fixing, as I didn't know if I want to get a second FUT at this time, but finally I decided against it. 

About the Androcur + Estofrem medication: I don't know if it will bring hair back, atm I would say, maybe just slightly but I can really see that it kills all the androgens in my body: Hair heavily decreased, decreased sweating and skin oil, no acne anymore, no ability to ejaculate. T is basically nuked and so should be DHT. But the best of it, I don't get the mental sides that I had on FIN, like depressions, memory loss and brain fog, which was really bothering me.

About the Balding, you are quite right, 

this is the before:

 

 

and here, as of today:

 

 

Analyzing the recipient area, I am quite happy, but If I want to grow my hair out, a touch up in the mid sclap would really be necessary.

 

 

The donor area is another chapter, IHMO at the moment it is quite destroyed, and would require more than some patchy beard grafts (which I don't even know, will survice the medication, a lot has been miniturized already)

 

 

At the moment, I am just questioning all my decisions, even if I had chosen top clinics, this seems not to be a home run for me  

 

 

Apply topical minoxodil on the donor areas at least and ones with shock loss.

I have seen more doctors prescribe minox than not. No clue about the recipient area but the donor area should definitely be helped with minox.

There are a few cases of shock loss on this forum, some even worse and they all seem to have recovered.

[THE TRUTH]

29 minutes ago, didu911 said:

Thank you very much, this is quite encouraging!

I don't judge Hattingen Hair to do anything wrong and Sever was also very confused, that the shockloss was happening to me, as he said, that there was no pressure at the scar and I trust him. 

I said thankfully no to his offer about the free scar fixing, as I didn't know if I want to get a second FUT at this time, but finally I decided against it. 

About the Androcur + Estofrem medication: I don't know if it will bring hair back, atm I would say, maybe just slightly but I can really see that it kills all the androgens in my body: Hair heavily decreased, decreased sweating and skin oil, no acne anymore, no ability to ejaculate. T is basically nuked and so should be DHT. But the best of it, I don't get the mental sides that I had on FIN, like depressions, memory loss and brain fog, which was really bothering me.

About the Balding, you are quite right, 

this is the before:

 

 

and here, as of today:

 

 

Analyzing the recipient area, I am quite happy, but If I want to grow my hair out, a touch up in the mid sclap would really be necessary.

 

 

The donor area is another chapter, IHMO at the moment it is quite destroyed, and would require more than some patchy beard grafts (which I don't even know, will survice the medication, a lot has been miniturized already)

 

 

At the moment, I am just questioning all my decisions, even if I had chosen top clinics, this seems not to be a home run for me  

 

 

Actually I get why you are concerned. 

Like I said your donor area at the back looks on the occipital region looks fine and no need to worry about it. 

Your little bald patch on the LEFT temporal side is fixable. 

However on the last picture that you uploaded it does appear that there is a thinned out area on the RIGHT temporal side. 

Your surgery with HLC was 6 months ago, right ? 

I circled that area in red. 

Was this specific area already looking like that after Hattingen ? Is this the consequence of the strip ? 

Or did you notice it after your 2nd surgery with HLC ? You mentionned HLC extracted 500 grafts from each temporal side correct ? 

 

 

[Rahal Hair Transplant]

Keep in mind, that shocked hair (hair loss due to telogen effluvium aka shock loss) can take up to 6 to 12 months to grow completely back. So if you’re still experiencing shock loss from your FUE procedure only 5 months after the surgery, that’s not going unheard of.

in my opinion, give it time for the short hair to return and the Transplanred hair to grow which can take up to 12 to 18 months.

As far as the FUT scar, you can always go back and undergo an FUE procedure just to put some hair in the scar and minimize its appearance when wearing your hair cropped short at the sides and back of your scalp.  

Best wishes,

Rahal Hair Transplant

[didu911]

2 hours ago, What is your agenda here said:

Actually I get why you are concerned. 

Like I said your donor area at the back looks on the occipital region looks fine and no need to worry about it. 

Your little bald patch on the LEFT temporal side is fixable. 

However on the last picture that you uploaded it does appear that there is a thinned out area on the RIGHT temporal side. 

Your surgery with HLC was 6 months ago, right ? 

I circled that area in red. 

Was this specific area already looking like that after Hattingen ? Is this the consequence of the strip ? 

Or did you notice it after your 2nd surgery with HLC ? You mentionned HLC extracted 500 grafts from each temporal side correct ? 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you 🙂

The permanent shock loss area was there before, and I was aware of that, but It didn't bothered me. If I compare the images, I see a lot more of lost density with an about same hair length  after the HLC intervention which was exactly 5 months ago.

 

Currently I don't see any reason, why there should still be 2500 Grafts in the donor, this is the main problem that bothers me, as I had a 'master plan' for long hair

 

 

[didu911]

22 minutes ago, Rahal Hair Transplant said:

Keep in mind, that shocked hair (hair loss due to telogen effluvium aka shock loss) can take up to 6 to 12 months to grow completely back. So if you’re still experiencing shock loss from your FUE procedure only 5 months after the surgery, that’s not going unheard of.

in my opinion, give it time for the short hair to return and the Transplanred hair to grow which can take up to 12 to 18 months.

As far as the FUT scar, you can always go back and undergo an FUE procedure just to put some hair in the scar and minimize its appearance when wearing your hair cropped short at the sides and back of your scalp.  

Best wishes,

Rahal Hair Transplant

Thank you too, for your answer. 

The waiting-game is currently mentally very demaning, as I already had permanent shock loss, my first procedure instead, was an easy ride. 

Do you advice to apply minoxidil into the donor, if any of your patiens have shock loss in that area? 

 

Best

[THE TRUTH]

On 5/2/2022 at 5:01 PM, didu911 said:

Thank you too, for your answer. 

The waiting-game is currently mentally very demaning, as I already had permanent shock loss, my first procedure instead, was an easy ride. 

Do you advice to apply minoxidil into the donor, if any of your patiens have shock loss in that area? 

 

Best

How was your result on the recipient area from Dr. Bekir ? 

[didu911]

22 minutes ago, What is your agenda here said:

How was your result on the recipient area from Dr. Bekir ? 

So, currently I am just approaching the 5th month, but It seems like solid work, I can see a lot of growth in the new designed hairline and the angles are good, I can see a little of cobble-stoning, but had some with Hattingen as well.

In the crown, I can't see a a lot of growth yet. 

But getting operated by an unknown doc makes the waiting game not a lot easier.... 

That's one point on the list, why I question my decisions. 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by didu911

[didu911]

[THE TRUTH]

25 minutes ago, didu911 said:

Yeah looks nice and solid 👍

And like you said the angles are correct too. 

Do you have any pre-operation picture from the angle ? I mean before your 2nd surgery 

[didu911]

1 hour ago, What is your agenda here said:

Yeah looks nice and solid 👍

And like you said the angles are correct too. 

Do you have any pre-operation picture from the angle ? I mean before your 2nd surgery 

Nothing comparable, but this was right before the surgery 

[Melvin- Admin]

Shock loss may still be around at 5 months. I’m a bit confused by the series of pictures. The patchy pictures are those recent pictures?

[didu911]

1 hour ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Shock loss may still be around at 5 months. I’m a bit confused by the series of pictures. The patchy pictures are those recent pictures?

Well it's a little hard to follow the thread, I had a FUT and already permanent shockloss because of that, you might need to read a little in detail. 

[gillenator]

I am looking forward to seeing how everything looks in another 4-6 months from now…👍