Recommended Surgeons Sponsor the Forum (denigration of the forum will no longer be tolerated)

[Melvin- Admin]

 

The accusations that we keep surgeons because we receive a sponsorship has been said ad nauseam and frankly, it is a nasty false accusation. It is NO secret that surgeons we recommend sponsor our community. We have removed SEVERAL surgeons in the time that I have been moderating this forum, we have also been sued by several surgeons. We had a very public lawsuit with Armani clinic a decade ago, we fought for the patients right to express themselves freely on this community. 

I realize I'm a pretty easy going person, and perhaps that has been misconstrued as weakness. I am no longer putting up with this denigration of our community. I have sacrificed so much for this community, my time, my energy, all for the love of this community. To see it grow and flourish, so others can learn, so they don't make the same mistake I made the first time. But I realize there are some toxic individuals whose goal is to undermine what we do with accusations to try and make us look bad for having physician sponsors. 

I hope everyone realizes that without sponsors this community WOULD CEASE TO EXIST! I am no longer going to defend myself or our process. To view how we select and recommend surgeons go here.

[Classygentleman]

 

@Melvin- Moderatormakes a fair point in that the forum receives financial support needed to keep it free and as good as it is. This is more than fair in my opinion.

When a particular surgeon is recommended, as members we are asked for input so not just down to @Melvin- Moderator’s opinion- to me the question should be, should the potential removal of any surgeon also be discussed by members?
For me, that feels like the fairest thing to do. If as members, we are able to contribute to new doctors joining the forum based on our experiences and results, should the same be offered in reverse?

[Melvin- Admin]

2 minutes ago, Classygentleman said:

 

 

@Melvin- Moderatormakes a fair point in that the forum receives financial support needed to keep it free and as good as it is. This is more than fair in my opinion.

When a particular surgeon is recommended, as members we are asked for input so not just down to @Melvin- Moderator’s opinion- to me the question should be, should the potential removal of any surgeon also be discussed by members?
For me, that feels like the fairest thing to do. If as members, we are able to contribute to new doctors joining the forum based on our experiences and results, should the same be offered in reverse?

That's an interesting idea, on paper, it seems like a good one, but put in practice, I don't think it would work. To be quite honest, the current system isn't perfect. The idea that any person could vote or remove a surgeon isn't very good. Do they know what criteria to look for? Are they qualified? Are they competitor shills? That's why it can get very convoluted. The basic notion is that we publicly present a surgeon, so that they can be held to public scrutiny. Meaning, if there are any past patients that are unhappy they can speak up and share their details. That's the main purpose of having a public approval process, not necessarily the vote. 

I think moving forward perhaps we can assemble a board of members and physicians, those who understand the criteria, and have basic qualifications to make a proper judgement. 

Now, I want to make it clear the sole criteria isn't just good growth, it is naturalness, refinement, and ETHICS. There is no perfect surgeon, even the best will get sub-par growth, but how they treat their patients is equally as important. I don't believe removing a surgeon is the appropriate action if they have demonstrated good ethics, and have demonstrated that they are diligently working on improving their practice. Now, of course, there is a time where despite their best efforts they may not have what it takes. But I believe we have to allow the surgeon time to make these adjustments and show their work is improving. 

I am very tuned in to what is posted on the forum, and I have had serious conversations with all of our surgeons. Opening up this process to the public could turn in to a witch hunt. That wouldn't benefit anyone. But I do believe the current process can be improved. There's no doubt about that. 

[Britanium]

The forums recommended list has gone through changes ever since it’s inception. Clinics/Drs have come and gone. It’s not just a case of those who are willing to contribute will always be mentioned and they are certainly not promoted/marketed. It’s always been the case that the forum/mod will decide if someone should be considered and then recommended. Just recently a Dr was considered and it was decided it was too early for them to be recommended. Also the recommended list has been reduced recently, so it shows that its always evolving/changing. We can all think of some Drs/Clinics we believe are worth recommending but they need to agree to being Involved/included and they will have to go through the process of being vetted. 
A lot of this seems to stem from some of Dr Arshads results, which are sub par IMO, particularly around those which are approx 9-12 months ago. A lot of members have commented that they also think they bar sub par, and some of the  guys posting the results agree and are also disappointed. We have also seen quite a lot of “top ups” needed. All I ask is that the questions are asked to Dr Arshad and his results are reviewed. We all are wondering why this is happening. 

[RTC]

I agree with J.A.C - this seems to stem from the Arshad threads. It's quite concerning that he has had two pretty poor results in short order with no real explanation why. This forum is great because it has real results from real people, so you can get actual proper advice on who a good surgeon is and what kind of results to expect.

However, a doctor is only as good as his last transplant, and if he has more than one bad result recently, this should call his credibility into question. Users should also be able to point this out without being vilified.

As we have seen with the Covid BS of the last two years, the more you censor differing opinions, the more people stop trusting what you say.

Let's keep this an open and honest forum where everybody can say what they feel, as long as they are being respectful. If a surgeon is producing bad results, I want to know about it before I decide to book with that person.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Aslitarcan sucks

[Melvin- Admin]

3 minutes ago, J.A.C said:

The forums recommended list has gone through changes ever since it’s inception. Clinics/Drs have come and gone. It’s not just a case of those who are willing to contribute will always be mentioned and they are certainly not promoted/marketed. It’s always been the case that the forum/mod will decide if someone should be considered and then recommended. Just recently a Dr was considered and it was decided it was too early for them to be recommended. Also the recommended list has been reduced recently, so it shows that its always evolving/changing. We can all think of some Drs/Clinics we believe are worth recommending but they need to agree to being Involved/included and they will have to go through the process of being vetted. 
A lot of this seems to stem from some of Dr Arshads results, which are sub par IMO, particularly around those which are approx 9-12 months ago. A lot of members have commented that they also think they bar sub par, and some of the  guys posting the results agree and are also disappointed. We have also seen quite a lot of “top ups” needed. All I ask is that the questions are asked to Dr Arshad and his results are reviewed. We all are wondering why this is happening. 

I have had several lengthy conversations with Dr. Arshad, its not like i'm ignoring these issues, and neither is he, believe me. He is a genuinely good physician, to the core, he cares about his patients and his results. To be perfectly honest, I haven't seen any disasters. Yes, poor growth, but nothing egregious. He has been top-class in standing by his work. Treating his patients with care and compassion, that is what we look for in a surgeon. I believe he has pinpointed some issues, which may have contributed to sub-par growth. 

I think that who Dr. Arshad is as a surgeon and a person is very important to the conversation. If he was a surgeon who was offering no support, doing nothing for his patients and getting sub-par growth, then yes, he should be removed. However, if there's an issue that can be corrected, and the appropriate action is being done by the clinic to fix the issues, they are standing by their work and their patients. I think we should allow the surgeon to make these adjustments and demonstrate that they can get themselves back on track. 

There has been in my opinion, an over exaggeration of his work. I haven't seen any of his work where it looks unnatural, pluggy, with misplaced angles. All of the work has looked natural, refined, but the growth hasn't been perfect. There's been growth, but not an ideal amount. Dr. Arshad is aware of this, believe me, he isn't some guy who just wants money, he cares about his work. We've had honest hour long conversations. I believe in him as a surgeon, I think he is more than capable of performing out of this world work, which got him recommended in the first place. I understand that there were issues last year, but I want to see what improvements are done this year. I feel that he has made adjustments and I think we will start seeing that very soon. I don't believe in witch hunts, which can easily develop. 

 

[FUT4000]

Out of all forums, review sites, youtube videos, etc, hair restoration network has been the most helpful and the most honest. Like Melvin I almost made a mistake going off yelp and google reviews before coming to this website, making the right decision and honestly am very thankful for. Anyone that complains about the website or how it is financially supported should be seriously considered to be banned. 

[Melvin- Admin]

Just now, FUT4000 said:

Out of all forums, review sites, youtube videos, etc, hair restoration network has been the most helpful and the most honest. Like Melvin I almost made a mistake going off yelp and google reviews before coming to this website, making the right decision and honestly am very thankful for. Anyone that complains about the website or how it is financially supported should be seriously considered to be banned. 

Honestly, I had kept it up, because hey it’s their opinion, but this particular guy says it ALL the time. It’s like a disclaimer to him. I’m no longer putting up with it. 

[Britanium]

So far I have not seen anybody mentioning anything other than poor growth, and personally the most recent one I saw poor planning. That’s just my opinion, I have no issue in praising the other decent results I have seen, I don’t think he’s a poor Dr, I just see issues that can hopefully be rectified. But it’s a lengthy process to see if the improvements will lead to better growth, hopefully we see it. I definitely don’t think it’s a witch-hunt, I have seen this happen with other Drs. I like the after care he shows, just that the “top ups” shouldn’t be needed on such a regular basis. Those guys have already used their finite donor supply, let’s hope from now on it won’t happen. Of course we all know that on occasion poor growth can occur for a multitude of reasons, just when a pattern emerges we have to be paying attention. 

[FUT4000]

Just now, Melvin- Moderator said:

Honestly, I had kept it up, because hey it’s their opinion, but this particular guy says it ALL the time. It’s like a disclaimer to him. I’m no longer putting up with it. 

You are really too nice Melvin. It's a good thing I'm not a moderator 😆

[Britanium]

Myself and another member asked why Dr Reddy was removed? Is it because he has a new clinic? 

[Melvin- Admin]

6 minutes ago, J.A.C said:

Myself and another member asked why Dr Reddy was removed? Is it because he has a new clinic? 

Yes, he’s moved to his own practice and his temporarily withdrawn himself from recommendation. I will speak to him on Monday, it is nothing to do with his work. 

[Britanium]

2 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Yes, he’s moved to his own practice and his temporarily withdrawn himself from recommendation. I will speak to him on Monday, it is nothing to do with his work. 

@GrantYou were asking this on another thread 👍🏽

[Marko7t4]

31 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

I have had several lengthy conversations with Dr. Arshad, its not like i'm ignoring these issues, and neither is he, believe me. He is a genuinely good physician, to the core, he cares about his patients and his results. To be perfectly honest, I haven't seen any disasters. Yes, poor growth, but nothing egregious. He has been top-class in standing by his work. Treating his patients with care and compassion, that is what we look for in a surgeon. I believe he has pinpointed some issues, which may have contributed to sub-par growth. 

I think that who Dr. Arshad is as a surgeon and a person is very important to the conversation. If he was a surgeon who was offering no support, doing nothing for his patients and getting sub-par growth, then yes, he should be removed. However, if there's an issue that can be corrected, and the appropriate action is being done by the clinic to fix the issues, they are standing by their work and their patients. I think we should allow the surgeon to make these adjustments and demonstrate that they can get themselves back on track. 

There has been in my opinion, an over exaggeration of his work. I haven't seen any of his work where it looks unnatural, pluggy, with misplaced angles. All of the work has looked natural, refined, but the growth hasn't been perfect. There's been growth, but not an ideal amount. Dr. Arshad is aware of this, believe me, he isn't some guy who just wants money, he cares about his work. We've had honest hour long conversations. I believe in him as a surgeon, I think he is more than capable of performing out of this world work, which got him recommended in the first place. I understand that there were issues last year, but I want to see what improvements are done this year. I feel that he has made adjustments and I think we will start seeing that very soon. I don't believe in witch hunts, which can easily develop. 

 

As one of Dr Arshad’s patients, I can certainly say that the passion, commitment and customer focus of the clinic is second to none. It is just disappointing that so many seem to be having the same issue. Many clinics would wash their hands of patients once their HT is done, but not this one. Has the clinic told you what they think has gone wrong last year regarding lack of growth/density?

[digi23]

I have full respect and it cannot be easy to run a site like this and recommend 42 physicians at this time, and always be updated what is happening at the clinic. The list at this moment has many great Doctors.

It can be that two of the best technicians both leave and suddenly you stand there with two new that you gotta teach for the best of your ability, while still performing 2-3 surgeries a day. Not an easy task. 

I had a botch job by a recommended Dr but I would never say that he should be removed, if you feel that he should be recommended so be it, but I think its fair for patients who post reviews to question work when for example in my situation no magnification is used at the clinic when I was there, no loupes and no microscopes to sort the grafts, its interesting how one could think he is a recommendable Dr considering this.

If you want for yourself you can pluck a 4 haired graft with tweezers and a single while the hair is long(much easier to see), cut it to almost 0mm like it is when its shaved with 0 guard. Then just look at it with the bare eye and say who is who, then put on 6x loupes and see the difference.

Edited April 7, 2022 by digi23

[Melvin- Admin]

29 minutes ago, digi23 said:

I have full respect and it cannot be easy to run a site like this and recommend 42 physicians at this time, and always be updated what is happening at the clinic. The list at this moment has many great Doctors.

It can be that two of the best technicians both leave and suddenly you stand there with two new that you gotta teach for the best of your ability, while still performing 2-3 surgeries a day. Not an easy task. 

I had a botch job by a recommended Dr but I would never say that he should be removed, if you feel that he should be recommended so be it, but I think its fair for patients who post reviews to question work when for example in my situation no magnification is used at the clinic when I was there, no loupes and no microscopes to sort the grafts, its interesting how one could think he is a recommendable Dr considering this.

If you want for yourself you can pluck a 4 haired graft with tweezers and a single while the hair is long(much easier to see), cut it to almost 0mm like it is when its shaved with 0 guard. Then just look at it with the bare eye and say who is who, then put on 6x loupes and see the difference.

Yes, the whole purpose of the forum is to do this very thing. I have absolutely no issues with this at all. I have issues with people constantly saying “lists are paid for” as a way to diminish our community and our recommendations. 

Yes it is true, physicians pay a sponsorship fee. But in no way does that discredit their work or our community. Our list isn’t definitive. That is why we advise everyone to do their due diligence and research properly. 

We aren’t hiding anything here, it’s all out in the open. If someone sees your thread and rethinks going to that surgeon, then that’s fair. Some may also look at other cases and think the price is worth the risk, that’s also fair. 

[digi23]

20 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Yes, the whole purpose of the forum is to do this very thing. I have absolutely no issues with this at all. I have issues with people constantly saying “lists are paid for” as a way to diminish our community and our recommendations. 

Yes it is true, physicians pay a sponsorship fee. But in no way does that discredit their work or our community. Our list isn’t definitive. That is why we advise everyone to do their due diligence and research properly. 

We aren’t hiding anything here, it’s all out in the open. If someone sees your thread and rethinks going to that surgeon, then that’s fair. Some may also look at other cases and think the price is worth the risk, that’s also fair. 

Yeah, I think the forum is being as transparent as it can be. Many other forums would have deleted my thread.

I think what you say is true, research for yourself, not just go by some list. 

We dont agree on Dr Yaman and thats fine, but I think we can agree that ANY clinic not using any form of magnification is not doing it the proper way, which @DrTBarghouthistressed in my thread, that it is crucial to use magnification for consistent good results.

I guess its also in my opinion how "Elite" you want the "Recommended List" to be, if you want the list to be Physicians who will not kill you or if you want Physicians who do actually everything in detail and with very consistent results.

All in all, the forum is mostly built on researching on your own with patients posting their 12-month journeys, we dont need to put so much time into criticizing the recommendation list, it is there for the forum to stay alive and be able to pay its bills it seems that you are saying.

Edited April 7, 2022 by digi23

[NARMAK]

I came to this forum and feel i did learn a great deal and had my eyes further opened that we should still have to do even more scrutiny even when clinics or doctors are recommended. 

In the short time here, i'd like to feel i've been able to contribute and give back to the community too. 

However, i have said it previously that i think it's sometimes a rock and a hard place that the forum may be placed in with regards to commenting on specific patient results posted in the community here when they come from forum recommended doctors or clinics. 

That's not to try and question anybody's integrity. It's just something that others have picked up on and i guess needs to be probably seen to be balanced. 

We have to remember that like for example in cases where Doctors take all the precautions and say the right thing etc. but a patient result shows sub par growth etc. it does certainly affect the final outcome and patient and prospective clients will see that as a slight red flag.

In those situations, i think it's always best to have a healthy and respectful debate that can look at objective things. Poor density, angulation, planning etc. that are moreso an issue that's clinic sided more than say patient responsibility. 

I think a fine balance when struck keeps the harmony and principles that are stated as being the foundation of the forum strong and from cracking. 

I hope we can all always pull together and be objective and fair in judgement whether a doctor is recommended or not in a respectful manner. 

[asterix0]

I would also add, the patient must bear some burden of responsibility for their decision. Do not necessarily pick a doctor because of one review you see on here, or if he is recommended, or you saw a YouTube video, or some post on instagram.

Be thorough and comprehensive in your research. Try to find bad results, try to find comparable results from doctor's for a similar number of grafts and obtain realistic expectations. Make a plan on what you will do if you are not on medication, if you lose more hair, what will you do? Do not just conveniently blame a forum post or a YouTube video, be aware of the risks involved. 

Also, be aware of how before and after pics look, lighting, hair length, everything makes a huge difference. If I take a picture in the car with no direct overhead light, I can look like I have a thick Norwood 1, but in direct bathroom light over my head it looks like diffuse Norwood 6. Combover tricks, comb forward, these can all be used and the actual result may be misrepresented that way. 

Look at before and after pictures that show the donor buzzed down entirely, so you can see if the clinic has a tendency to over harvest or not. When the donor is grown it long many things can be concealed, and you may be shocked to find what is actually underneath.

Edited April 7, 2022 by asterix0

[ITA]

Anyone who doubts HRN has no idea what other forums are doing.  Also on the other forums the clinics / surgeons pay to be "advertised", while here they are "recommended", but on the other forums they "buy" the connivance of the administrators who willingly give in to their money, deleting the threads of unhappy patients, on HRN It is not so .

[Britanium]

@HairaidCome on did you really join just to say this about Dr Arshad? Or are you a former member…? It’s a lil more than suspicious when someone joins and immediately makes a post such as this. You have to have knowledge of what’s been happening, a lurker or previous user? 

Edited April 8, 2022 by J.A.C

[Gatsby]

One thing I want to add to this thread is what a great job @Melvin- Moderator does with his time in keeping it all together! 👏 I mean Melvin also works a full time job, has a family, etc. Yet he still churns out great interviews and video's on an incredibly regular basis for the benefit of the members as well as others as well as running this site! I think that needs to be remembered here too!

[Zoomster]

21 minutes ago, Gatsby said:

One thing I want to add to this thread is what a great job @Melvin- Moderator does with his time in keeping it all together! 👏 I mean Melvin also works a full time job, has a family, etc. Yet he still churns out great interviews and video's on an incredibly regular basis for the benefit of the members as well as others as well as running this site! I think that needs to be remembered here too!

Hear hear 👏..Melvin’s a godsend to this community….

So it’s rather fitting that he’ll have the hair of a God very soon 🥂