Is this a failed transplant? 8 months post-op 2,700 grafts done at HLC.

[HappyMan2021]

3 hours ago, Sitries1 said:

His transplant didn’t fail though. He has a small patch that needs a touch up!

you're right he "just" needs to fly to Turkey, have a 2nd surgery, and postpone his goal of full coverage by 1 year or more. 

Not to mention the psychological aspect of getting a repair, touch up (whatever you want to call it) at the same clinic that couldn't meet his expectations the first time around. 

If money was no issue, I don't see how anyone would go to the same clinic again for a repair job. If it were me I would need a d*mn good explanation from the clinic why this wouldn't happen a 2nd time

Not to mention repair cases and working on a previously operated on scalp can be more challenging than working on virgin scalp. 

Edited December 21, 2021 by SadMan2021

[bloodhound]

2 hours ago, MachoVato said:

My weak area was about the same as Evans. Yours appears less dense than mine was at month 8. Fortunately, it was on my right side, which was naturally covered over by my hair style, so it was always hidden. 

I had my second HT at month 9, after that everything seems to improve. I also switched to oral minoxidil at that time, so that might have contributed to the improvement? Not sure. (I do recommend oral minoxidil since I'm seeing good results from it, particularly around my ears which have improved)

Why did I go to Bisanga? I've answered this a few times, but basically I wanted an expert in donor management and temples and I had a much better budget. I requested quotes/dates from HLC, Bisanga, and De Freitas. De Freitas never responded. HLC had an opening in 4 months. Bisanga had an opening in 5 weeks. HLC was more than capable and I would have received a nice discount rate but I went to Bisanga. He's more detailed than HLC, it's a much smaller clinic and more personalized. But overall my experience was better with HLC.

If I get a third transplant, it will be a different doctor. Probably Mwamba. If I get a fourth, I'll go to someone else. That's just how I do things.

Your case is tricky. I don't think it'll suddenly get super dense, but it should improve over the next 3-4 months. If it still poor density, ask for a touch up. You paid for quality, give them an opportunity to make good on that. 

I wish I could but I can’t do Oral Minoxidil because of the potential side effects, I’m asthmatic so I don’t want to risk affecting my cardiovascular system. Instead I’m looking into sublingual minoxidil because it may have a better safety profile. Awesome that it’s working for you, I recommend monitoring your blood pressure just so you know you’re safe

If I understand, you chose Bisagna because he was an expert in what you wanted to achieve, and he was more expensive but available sooner than HLC. Who did you feel delivered better results despite the visits being for 2 different things, and is he significantly more expensive? 

Thanks 💪 

Edited December 22, 2021 by bloodhound

[bloodhound]

1 hour ago, SadMan2021 said:

If money was no issue, I don't see how anyone would go to the same clinic again for a repair job. If it were me I would need a d*mn good explanation from the clinic why this wouldn't happen a 2nd time

I would say the only explanation would be if it wasn’t the clinic’s fault. There are people who get amazing results from them, and a few mishaps. You’re right though, I’m uncertain of who to go with now, and it’s exhausting to think about. Next step is getting my scalp looked at

[MachoVato]

2 hours ago, bloodhound said:

I wish I could but I can’t do Oral Minoxidil because of the potential side effects, I’m asthmatic so I don’t want to risk affecting my cardiovascular system. Instead I’m looking into sublingual minoxidil because it may have a better safety profile. Awesome that it’s working for you, I recommend monitoring your blood pressure just so you know you’re safe

If I understand, you chose Bisagna because he was an expert in what you wanted to achieve, and he was more expensive but available sooner than HLC. Who did you feel delivered better results despite the visits being for 2 different things, and is he significantly more expensive? 

Thanks 💪 

Bisanga is 4.84 Euro/graft after 21% VAT. I paid 2.5 at HLC, so he's almost double the cost. 

Who's better is a tough question for me. I believe Bisanga is one of the best in the world, probably top 25. So for complicated cases, he's a better choice. The one thing I really prefer is the stick & place technique at HLC. I believe it's a better process. Bisanga does pre-made slits. But his technicians use a tool that open the incisions when inserting the grafts. It's effective but I just prefer stick & place. 

Fortunately my results are excellent. Hairline is great, density is fantastic, all that. My temples are just now coming in. Here's a quick update. You can see the gap filling in. And it looks perfectly natural.

 

My opinion (and the opinion of many others) is that hair transplants are rarely a "one and done" thing. Perfection is achieved with multiple transplants, always refining the result. It's art as it as much science, unfortunately you have to wait a year before you see the results to make refinements.

And look at the middle pic when I was with Bisanga, that was month 9 after HLC. My hair is wet and under extreme lights, yes, but it looks thin, poor density. The improvement from month 9 to today (13.5 months) is dramatic. Be patient and trust the process.

[Sitries1]

4 hours ago, SadMan2021 said:

you're right he "just" needs to fly to Turkey, have a 2nd surgery, and postpone his goal of full coverage by 1 year or more. 

Not to mention the psychological aspect of getting a repair, touch up (whatever you want to call it) at the same clinic that couldn't meet his expectations the first time around. 

If money was no issue, I don't see how anyone would go to the same clinic again for a repair job. If it were me I would need a d*mn good explanation from the clinic why this wouldn't happen a 2nd time

Not to mention repair cases and working on a previously operated on scalp can be more challenging than working on virgin scalp. 

I think your missing the point!!! It’s an operation - All operations have risks and  everyone who goes into a HT knows that there is a risk that all or some of the grafts will fail. You cannot blame the surgeon/clinic for this because there are so many things that may have caused this outside the Clinics control.

If we were talking about a hair mill here that had constant mixed/poor results then I would be with you on this and would also recommend the OP went elsewhere to get his repair but in this case we are not! HLC have a proven track record of quality and a good reputation in the industry for a reason. 

Yes, it’s not ideal to have to go back and get a touch up, but if the final result is excellent then that’s the main thing here. 

[asterix0]

For those who say this transplant wasn't a failure...what do you think OP's yield was?

[MachoVato]

3 hours ago, asterix0 said:

For those who say this transplant wasn't a failure...what do you think OP's yield was?

Do you think transplants are completed in 8 months?

[asterix0]

3 hours ago, MachoVato said:

Do you think transplants are completed in 8 months?

Since you like answering questions with your own questions, let me ask you:

How many cases have you seen that were poor at 8 months and turned around to be as expected by 12 months?

[LaserCaps]

7 minutes ago, asterix0 said:

Since you like answering questions with your own questions, let me ask you:

How many cases have you seen that were poor at 8 months and turned around to be as expected by 12 months?

This is more common than you think.  In most cases, (when PRP was not done at the time of the procedure), results can be delayed.  Most mature at 12 months but in a handful of cases it can be as long as 18 months.  It is important to realize, when the hair starts coming in, it will be vellus-like.  The caliber will improve with time.  Eventually, it will be just as strong as what you find in the donor - which is from where the hair came originally.

[MachoVato]

2 minutes ago, asterix0 said:

Since you like answering questions with your own questions, let me ask you:

How many cases have you seen that were poor at 8 months and turned around to be as expected by 12 months?

Do you really call this poor? Complete failure? So bad they should issue immediate refund and close shop?

It's clear you haven't been paying attention to the countless "is my transplant a failure" threads on here.

[giegnosiganoe]

Can you share pics of the other side? Would be interesting to compare the growth.

[asterix0]

3 hours ago, MachoVato said:

Do you really call this poor? Complete failure? So bad they should issue immediate refund and close shop?

It's clear you haven't been paying attention to the countless "is my transplant a failure" threads on here.

Yes, by looking at the pictures the yield is clearly less than 50%. It's absolutely a failed transplant, I would say he maybe got 1,200 grafts at best out of the 2,700.

[asterix0]

3 hours ago, LaserCaps said:

This is more common than you think.  In most cases, (when PRP was not done at the time of the procedure), results can be delayed.  Most mature at 12 months but in a handful of cases it can be as long as 18 months.  It is important to realize, when the hair starts coming in, it will be vellus-like.  The caliber will improve with time.  Eventually, it will be just as strong as what you find in the donor - which is from where the hair came originally.

Do you have some evidence of this, a poor result at 8 months turning into the expected (95% or so yield) at 12 months?

At least one or two examples, I would just like to see if this is possible or not like you say. 

Edited December 22, 2021 by asterix0

[LaserCaps]

This has happened through the years....from time to time.  I am certain all clinics, overall, have had some sort of experience with this.  It is not uncommon to have a patient come in and question results.  It is also well documented - matured results can take about 12 months.  

Something else to keep in mind is the simultaneous use/nonuse of medications to help with retention.  So, if you do a transplant but go on and lose more of the native hair, you'll probably see no visual change, (you'll never be empty because the grafted hair will remain).  

I am sure there are plenty of members that can chime in with their own examples.

Are you doing anything medically to help you with retention?

Lastly, how many grafts did you do and where were they placed? If you did a minimum number and the grafts were planted diffusely through the entire pattern - you would also see little to no visual change.  So, many factors involved.

 

[Melvin- Admin]

On 12/21/2021 at 2:09 AM, bloodhound said:

I actually didn’t spread it apart, that’s how my hair sits if I don’t purposely comb it upwards. I will upload pics of it looking nice tomorrow since it’s my shampoo day 

I still haven’t seen any good before or after comparisons. Please re-upload pictures with your hair normal, not spread.

[Melvin- Admin]

12 hours ago, asterix0 said:

For those who say this transplant wasn't a failure...what do you think OP's yield was?

Impossible to say because the picture quality. Anyone can make an HT look perfect or disastrous, depending on presentation. It’s clear he’s spreading his hair and going under bright lights. Hopefully, he’ll share some better comparisons. 

[bloodhound]

6 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Impossible to say because the picture quality. Anyone can make an HT look perfect or disastrous, depending on presentation. It’s clear he’s spreading his hair and going under bright lights. Hopefully, he’ll share some better comparisons. 

So to see the yield you want me to comb the area and not be under light? Wouldn’t that make it harder to tell?

[bloodhound]

7 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Impossible to say because the picture quality. Anyone can make an HT look perfect or disastrous, depending on presentation. It’s clear he’s spreading his hair and going under bright lights. Hopefully, he’ll share some better comparisons. 

Well I’m not really concerned with what it looks like if I style it in a way to hide the thinness because It’s not how I would like to wear my hair. I showed these pics because I’m concerned with the grafts that haven’t sprouted but should be there. I’ll still upload pics of it looking nice 

[Melvin- Admin]

4 hours ago, bloodhound said:

Well I’m not really concerned with what it looks like if I style it in a way to hide the thinness because It’s not how I would like to wear my hair. I showed these pics because I’m concerned with the grafts that haven’t sprouted but should be there. I’ll still upload pics of it looking nice 

I’m gonna be completely honest with you, no bias and no affiliation with this clinic. Every hair transplant is an “illusion of density” it is not true density. This is true with any surgery and any surgeon. That is precisely why I created this thread and this video. Hair transplants are not and will never be perfect. You will always need to style your hair to provide a greater “illusion.” 
 

Those who are unhappy present their results in the worst possible way, those who are happy present it in the best possible way. In the below threads/videos I do both and show how vastly different a result can look like, this is the reality. 
 

Also, this video

[Melvin- Admin]

4 hours ago, bloodhound said:

So to see the yield you want me to comb the area and not be under light? Wouldn’t that make it harder to tell?

See this picture you’re not spreading it apart under a harsh light are you? Its just pulled back. Take a picture same place, with the same lighting, and do the same thing. That would be a fair comparison.

[Al - Moderator]

He had no hair at all in that area before the transplant. It looks like the section in question was transplanted a bit light from the beginning. If you look at his 8 month picture, you can see there is hair growing and it looks like they may be a bit thin and probably has some maturing to do over the next couple of months. Without seeing a view of the entire result it's hard to say for sure if this is good or bad.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Spaceguy]

Touch up is always easier and faster to recover from, as hairline is there and it just needs a fill up!

Also as fill up is done by lower graft density it is less stressful for your scalp so 2nd surgery/repair should be way easier to recover with better results. 

Indeed it is of low density but it is not disaster, i would wait few more months for hair to mature and make a decision on final result, until than use some fibers.

Good luck mate!

 

[HappyMan2021]

17 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Hair transplants are not and will never be perfect. You will always need to style your hair to provide a greater “illusion.” 

so true. Even great HT's can significantly limit styling options. And often times donor hair will be coarser and harder to tame than native hairline hair. I rarely if ever used hair product pre-hair transplant. Now I use product or conditioner on a near-daily basis. Hair transplants definitely require more upkeep and maintenance than native hair.

 

Edited December 23, 2021 by SadMan2021

[Melvin- Admin]

9 hours ago, BeHappy said:

He had no hair at all in that area before the transplant. It looks like the section in question was transplanted a bit light from the beginning. If you look at his 8 month picture, you can see there is hair growing and it looks like they may be a bit thin and probably has some maturing to do over the next couple of months. Without seeing a view of the entire result it's hard to say for sure if this is good or bad.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To me, it’s quite clear he’s spreading his hair apart. We all know, transplanted hair needs to be layered to provide the “illusion” of density. I think this is a case or unrealistic expectations. Not a failed hair transplant. But that’s my speculation based on the photos we have thus far, we’ve yet to see a fair comparison. 

[Runitback]

On 12/20/2021 at 1:44 PM, SadMan2021 said:

for my 1st hair transplant, the doc really undercounted the # of grafts needed, and there was significant part of my scalp left unfilled. I was quoted 1200 grafts and really needed 2000 or so. 

The grafts that were planted grew in fine but still a failure bc I was sentenced to needing a 2nd surgery. Super frustrating bc the doc knew 100% during surgery it wouldn't look good. But instead of adding more grafts then and there she decided to leave me hanging. 

Mind if I asked who you I’m used the first time.   I am feeling similar as I believe I could have used more but my dr only did 1700.  You mentioned she and I also had a she, dr nadimi.