Is this a failed transplant? 8 months post-op 2,700 grafts done at HLC.

[Gasthoerer]

Most people here had a hair a hair transplant and can fully relate to the feeling if a result is subpar. I preach patience all the time, but when my second HT came in late, I also went into panic mode. BUT: One should always try to be rational and separate facts from feeling. Fact is: This is a minor issue considering all the risks which can occur during a hair transplant.  

1 hour ago, EvansLawrence said:

You need to ask yourself if you did all the things they told you for the post operator. If you did then its their fault.

This is not correct and it creates unnecessary friction between the clinic and the patient. This forum is to help and guide not to create more trouble. The patient and the clinic can both do everything right, and still end up with such a result. 

In a case like this you probably will never find out what went wrong. Not because the clinic hides it from you, but because no one (!) knows. If there is no underlying condition which explains the result it is just that the grafts haven't taken. A graft is an organ, the blood vessels have to connect by themselves and sometimes they don't. Sometimes the grafts do not survive the stress of surgery.

We have seen worse than this from any (!) top clinic in the world with FUE and FUT. Therefore this is unfortunate, but not really unexpected.  

[HappyMan2021]

1 minute ago, Gasthoerer said:

We have seen worse than this from any (!) top clinic in the world with FUE and FUT. Therefore this is unfortunate, but not really unexpected.  

super depressing but true fact

[bloodhound]

22 minutes ago, EvansLawrence said:

Man upload if you may oficial pics of the clinic so we can prove that it was done there. I trust you. But just to make it official. I know a friend that could share this case.

Sure 

 

 

[bloodhound]

4 minutes ago, Gasthoerer said:

Most people here had a hair a hair transplant and can fully relate to the feeling if a result is subpar. I preach patience all the time, but when my second HT came in late, I also went into panic mode. BUT: One should always try to be rational and separate facts from feeling. Fact is: This is a minor issue considering all the risks which can occur during a hair transplant.  

This is not correct and it creates unnecessary friction between the clinic and the patient. This forum is to help and guide not to create more trouble. The patient and the clinic can both do everything right, and still end up with such a result. 

In a case like this you probably will never find out what went wrong. Not because the clinic hides it from you, but because no one (!) knows. If there is no underlying condition which explains the result it is just that the grafts haven't taken. A graft is an organ, the blood vessels have to connect by themselves and sometimes they don't. Sometimes the grafts do not survive the stress of surgery.

We have seen worse than this from any (!) top clinic in the world with FUE and FUT. Therefore this is unfortunate, but not really unexpected.  

I agree, circumstances can occur that no one has an answer too. But If this is this case; should a person go back to the place where the grafts didn’t take? If they didn’t take the first time why should they take the second time?

[ITA]

2 hours ago, bloodhound said:

Thanks for the suggestion, I’m going to do that. Should I ask if they can see if there’s grafts underneath? 

First of all you should ask the clinic what may have caused this problem of poor regrowth on the right side versus the left side, and then, based on their answer, I would investigate with a dermatologist to see if the right side of your scalp is perfectly healthy. .

[Melvin- Admin]

Can you share a picture of your hair normal? Without spreading it apart. It is hard to judge a result with the hair spread apart. Even the best hair transplants look thin if you spread it apart and go under a light, that's why I created this thread.

 

[bloodhound]

58 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Can you share a picture of your hair normal? Without spreading it apart. It is hard to judge a result with the hair spread apart. Even the best hair transplants look thin if you spread it apart and go under a light, that's why I created this thread.

 

I actually didn’t spread it apart, that’s how my hair sits if I don’t purposely comb it upwards. I will upload pics of it looking nice tomorrow since it’s my shampoo day 

[asterix0]

4 hours ago, Gasthoerer said:

Transection is not the reason for a poor survival in most cases and also not in this case. Grafts are small organs which have to be connected to the blood supply by the body...sometimes they don't or the graft is traumatized from the mechanical stress on them. 

In my humble option this is unfortunate but not "a failed transplant". There is a small chance the area will recover, otherwise a small 200 FU touch up would settle everything. This is not unnormal as it happens quite often. It might still make sense to with a dermatologist to see if there is an underlying condition in that particular area. 

Certainly what you say can be applied to anyone, that for "some" reason they fail. However, this particular clinic seems to have a more frequent occurrence of this issue. Can these really just be coincidences that patients who were destined to have failed transplants all went to this clinic?

Yes, this is a failed transplant definitely, would you be happy with this result? Be honest, you would be very distraught and unhappy. 

[asterix0]

3 hours ago, SadMan2021 said:

OP I for one totally understand what you're going through. 

Perhaps the person nitpicking on your "life or death" quote has never has a bad HT, or perhaps they've never even had any HT. Or they cant understand that it is not 100% literally life or death...

A HT is so much $, you have to schedule your life around the surgery, extreme stres and anxiety of the waiting period, just to get a bad result. And then needing a repair surgery that is no guarantee. 

And its not like you did anything wrong. There are exceptions of course but HCI does in general seem to be a good clinic. 

Its a massively stressful experience and you have every right to be upset. 

This is absolutely true. Planning this procedure takes years. It is usually quite expensive if you live a middle class life. You have months of recovery, and to have it fail is quite devastating, especially when we already know how tough male pattern baldness can be psychologically. 

[asterix0]

1 hour ago, Gasthoerer said:

Most people here had a hair a hair transplant and can fully relate to the feeling if a result is subpar. I preach patience all the time, but when my second HT came in late, I also went into panic mode. BUT: One should always try to be rational and separate facts from feeling. Fact is: This is a minor issue considering all the risks which can occur during a hair transplant.  

This is not correct and it creates unnecessary friction between the clinic and the patient. This forum is to help and guide not to create more trouble. The patient and the clinic can both do everything right, and still end up with such a result. 

In a case like this you probably will never find out what went wrong. Not because the clinic hides it from you, but because no one (!) knows. If there is no underlying condition which explains the result it is just that the grafts haven't taken. A graft is an organ, the blood vessels have to connect by themselves and sometimes they don't. Sometimes the grafts do not survive the stress of surgery.

We have seen worse than this from any (!) top clinic in the world with FUE and FUT. Therefore this is unfortunate, but not really unexpected.  

Maybe OP's physiology is the determining factor, that his blood flow in those areas is insufficient for the grafts to grow. 

I just don't know how it is beneficial for OP to say that for some unexplainable reason his transplant failed. We can post some plausible reasons why, and he can go to another clinic of good reputation or a good dermatologist and perhaps some tests can be done to see if a particular hypothesis happens to be true.

Think for yourself. If your transplant failed would you be content with the explanation, well the stars didn't align for you that day and for some unknown reason it failed? 

This is unscientific and helps no one. 

Edited December 20, 2021 by asterix0

[asterix0]

@bloodhound Did you have a complete blood panel taken before your surgery, were there any abnormal results?

 

[Gasthoerer]

This forum is about honest advice. What is yours? 

15 minutes ago, asterix0 said:

1. Maybe OP's physiology is the determining factor, that his blood flow in those areas is insufficient for the grafts to grow. 

2.I just don't know how it is beneficial for OP to say that for some unexplainable reason his transplant failed. We can post some plausible reasons why, and he can go to another clinic of good reputation or a good dermatologist and perhaps some tests can be done to see if a particular hypothesis happens to be true.

3. Think for yourself. If your transplant failed would you be content with the explanation, well the stars didn't align for you that day and for some unknown reason it failed? 

4. This is unscientific and helps no one. 

1. Maybe, even though unlikely, that it is as simple as "lack of bloodflow". 

2. The advice to visit a dermatologist was given before. By myself and others. This is the only slim chance to find a "reason". 

3.  No I would not, but I know (!) that there is a 90 % chance, I will never find out. Why? Cause no one knows, plain and simple. Look at all the failed cases from top clinics...no one knows the reason either. 

4. Accepting that the reason is unknown, is not unscientific. It is about accepting what is hard to accept. Bro-science like "the grafts were transacted" etc. is unscientific. 

21 minutes ago, asterix0 said:

1. Certainly what you say can be applied to anyone, that for "some" reason they fail. However, this particular clinic seems to have a more frequent occurrence of this issue.

2. ...would you be happy with this result? Be honest, you would be very distraught and unhappy. 

1. Is it? Did you make a statistic? Or is it your gut feeling. This sound very unscientific to me. The truth is: Many HT end up similar to this one. Much more than all the industry tries to sell us unfortunately. 

2. No! I wouldn't. In never said I would. In fact, I said that, I freaked out when my results came in late. But I am aware that it can (!) happen more than anyone would like. That is why I started with a small test surgery of 400 FU.  

[Gasthoerer]

2 hours ago, bloodhound said:

I agree, circumstances can occur that no one has an answer too. But If this is this case; should a person go back to the place where the grafts didn’t take? If they didn’t take the first time why should they take the second time?

That is a great question. Let's take the assumption, there is no more growth coming and that the test from the dermatologist come back clean. 

Pro at going back

- The clinic is a top clinic (otherwise I would never recommend to go back)

- The "method" you mentioned worked at all other areas and post OP looks clean

- Probably the clinic would perform a free touch up (saving money should not be priority though)

- They should have protocols from your surgery and know your case well

- It will be difficult to find a clinic performing a small touch up only. Most will sell you a bigger one and also lower the hairline etc. 

- Clinic is using stick & place which is exactly what is required 

Con against going back

- Lack of trust is never a good thing 

- There are techniques which might be better in between existing hairs (like the implanter pen used mainly in spain/portugal) - even though there are no scientific studies

- A change in protocol could be a good thing - different holding solution, different extraction method (like WAW), different implantation method,... - even though I have seen many go back to the same clinic for a small touch up and ending up with a great result. 

My recommendation:

- For sure I would visit different clinics, and in the end decide based on the "trust" point. Do you trust the clinic to meet your expectations? If yes, go back. If not, go with one other clinic you have visited. BUT:  If someone tells you he guarantees a better outcome - run!

 

Edited December 20, 2021 by Gasthoerer

[asterix0]

33 minutes ago, Gasthoerer said:

This forum is about honest advice. What is yours? 

1. Maybe, even though unlikely, that it is as simple as "lack of bloodflow". 

2. The advice to visit a dermatologist was given before. By myself and others. This is the only slim chance to find a "reason". 

3.  No I would not, but I know (!) that there is a 90 % chance, I will never find out. Why? Cause no one knows, plain and simple. Look at all the failed cases from top clinics...no one knows the reason either. 

4. Accepting that the reason is unknown, is not unscientific. It is about accepting what is hard to accept. Bro-science like "the grafts were transacted" etc. is unscientific. 

1. Is it? Did you make a statistic? Or is it your gut feeling. This sound very unscientific to me. The truth is: Many HT end up similar to this one. Much more than all the industry tries to sell us unfortunately. 

2. No! I wouldn't. In never said I would. In fact, I said that, I freaked out when my results came in late. But I am aware that it can (!) happen more than anyone would like. That is why I started with a small test surgery of 400 FU.  

I have not done extensive research to see how many transplants from this clinic failed. You can look for yourself and compile them, or someone else who has the time can do so. But certainly there have been enough that, for me personally, it would be enough to dissuade me not to proceed with them.

Your small test surgery of 400 FU is not comparable to what would happen with a 2900 procedure, which is what you stated to have had afterwards. The number of grafts is so much larger that the factors that can contribute to a failed transplant are much higher, i.e. competition for blood flow, overall trauma to the head and dermal tissue, potential nerve damage, etc. It is much more likely that you were always a good candidate and had the right dermatological "fertilizer", so to speak, for your grafts to grow well. And also that you went to a better clinic than the OP did. 

Overall though I am not interested to debate this with you, rather I came in to this thread to try to help OP figure out why his transplant failed. I don't think the "just because" helps in any way, nor do I think it's valid. I think there is always a scientific explanation as to why, it may be difficult to find it, but we are talking about cause and effect relationships here. 

There are three possibilities. Surgeon error, OP's biological condition, or both. You pick one and continue down the path to see what about how the surgeon performs can lead to such a result. You see if other patients had similar results and is there a pattern. If not, do a scalp biopsy and a full blood panel to see if it is your own deficiency somehow. 

So, my advice for OP is:

1) Do some research and see how many patients from this clinic have published testimonials similar to yours. If you can, reach out to them and see if the grafts ever grew. If there is a significant enough pattern, you can feel more confident that clinic/surgeon error is likely. Meaning, perhaps the implantation was not done right, perhaps the grafts were transected, perhaps they were not handled/stored properly when outside of the skin, there are many, many potential reasons.

2) If you cannot find anything significant here, go seek additional opinions from other surgeons/dermatologists. Do a complete blood and health panel, and perhaps a biopsy if it is recommended enough.

3) If there is nothing in (1), and everything is fine in (2), then perhaps there are no more tools left in the toolbox for OP to use to try to figure out why this happened. His best bet is to find the best surgeon he can then to minimize his risk of failure, and try for another procedure to correct this one. This would literally only be De Freitas, Cuoto, Konior, Dr. Pitella, Dr. Zarev, Dr. Bisanga, etc.

Edited December 20, 2021 by asterix0

[Gasthoerer]

2 minutes ago, asterix0 said:

1. I have not done extensive research to see how many transplants from this clinic failed. ... But certainly there have been enough that, for me personally, it would be enough to dissuade me not to proceed with them.

2. You're small test surgery of 400 FU is not comparable to what would happen with a 2900 procedure ....

3. ... I came in to this thread to try to help OP figure out why his transplant failed. I don't think the "just because" helps in any way, nor do I think it's valid...

 

1. This is the definition of "unscientific". 

2. I know that, but it is the best we can do nowadays to find out if one is a good candidate or not. I know I am lucky it worked. 

3. Again, no one told the OP, not to go to another clinic and a dermatologist. But isn't it the best to prepare the OP to what is most likely to happen? And to make this decision, without blaming himself choosing this clinic or making this a bigger issue as it is? Most likely he has to make a decision without knowing the reason why his transplant failed. That is the truth. To belief that we can solve in here the riddle why some transplants fail is a little, well, presumptuous. 

[asterix0]

2 minutes ago, Gasthoerer said:

1. This is the definition of "unscientific". 

2. I know that, but it is the best we can do nowadays to find out if one is a good candidate or not. I know I am lucky it worked. 

3. Again, no one told the OP, not to go to another clinic and a dermatologist. But isn't it the best to prepare the OP to what is most likely to happen? And to make this decision, without blaming himself choosing this clinic or making this a bigger issue as it is? Most likely he has to make a decision without knowing the reason why his transplant failed. That is the truth. To belief that we can solve in here the riddle why some transplants fail is a little, well, presumptuous. 

1. If it is so unscientific, why do we even have patient reviews at all? Strictly scientifically speaking, these samples are so small that they are hardly representative of the entire population of hair transplant patients of a particular clinic. Hence, all these reviews should be worthless in your eyes, no?

No need to be a literalist here, I think (hope) you understand the point I was trying to make.

3. It is your opinion that this is what most likely happened. It is my opinion that surgeon error is the most likely reason. 

Edited December 20, 2021 by asterix0

[Gasthoerer]

Just now, asterix0 said:

 Hence, all these reviews should be worthless in your eyes, no?

No! Again (!), you saying something, no one (!) has said. I say:

1. Judge results not only by the growth, but also how the work is performed. 

2. There are much more results with poor growth even from top clinics. That is why the best transplant is no transplant. 

3. I agree, that for most clinics, the sample size is to small to make a judgement about growth between clinics/methods. But the quality of work, can be judged.  

4. Especially for Turkish clinics there is a huge outrage if a bad results occur. Much more than with other top clinics. 

 

[asterix0]

7 minutes ago, Gasthoerer said:

No! Again (!), you saying something, no one (!) has said. I say:

1. Judge results not only by the growth, but also how the work is performed. 

2. There are much more results with poor growth even from top clinics. That is why the best transplant is no transplant. 

3. I agree, that for most clinics, the sample size is to small to make a judgement about growth between clinics/methods. But the quality of work, can be judged.  

4. Especially for Turkish clinics there is a huge outrage if a bad results occur. Much more than with other top clinics. 

 

1. This statement doesn't make sense. How can anyone know how the work was performed if we didn't sit and observe the procedure ourselves. Even then, as layman, how could we tell if it is good or bad? Only a top hair transplant surgeon could form a sensible opinion by observing this.

I judge results by...the results. By seeing what was achieved with the number of grafts used. By trying to deduce what the yield is, is it at least 95% yield. 

2) Do you have evidence of this? Show some bad results from Cuoto, De Freitas, Pitella, Zarev, Konior. Let's scale these numbers to make them proportional to some estimate of total number of procedures performed. Is the percentage of failed transplants similar? You have evidence of this, really?

3) How can you judge the quality of work if you aren't sitting in the operating room observing the procedure? How would you even know what to look for, you aren't a doctor, haven't been to medical school, have 0 training.

Generally speaking, the post operative pictures do give an indication if the work is clean or not. In OP's case, everything seemed to look good. Yet, the final result did not turn out to be so. There is more to investigate here than to just accept it and say "oh well, shit happens sometimes". 

4) Yes...because there is more evidence of unhappy patients from these clinics unfortunately. 

Edited December 20, 2021 by asterix0

[Gasthoerer]

10 minutes ago, asterix0 said:

1.  How can anyone know how the work was performed if we didn't sit and observe the procedure ourselves.

...

What? Quoting yourself: "Hence, all these reviews should be worthless in your eyes, no?" Of course we judge the results, by how good the craftmanship was and not only by the final "growth". We do it all the time:

- Distribution of doubles and singles

- Angles slits and rotation of the grafts

- Micro and macro design of the hairline

- Longtime planing

- etc. etc. 

You even say yourself post-op looks good...weird. 

Besides that: I have seen plenty of poor results of top clinics, including FUT by H&W. The clinics you mention have in total how many patient reports in here? 5? 10? All I am saying is: ignoring that poor growth can happen with any (!) clinic is misleading of newbies. Hair transplant is risky. 

And again: I never said that the OP should not investigate. I said: you might have to prepare to make a decision without knowing what happened.

Sorry, you are not making any sense and you are not helping the forum or the OP. You are trying to stir the pot. I am not going to waste more time into that. All is said anyway. Come back to me when you have found the reason for failed transplants. 

OP promised to show pics with styled hair, which gives us a better representation of the result and he already received great advice. Let us all wish him luck for his next decisions and steps. 

 

[MachoVato]

6 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Can you share a picture of your hair normal? Without spreading it apart. It is hard to judge a result with the hair spread apart. Even the best hair transplants look thin if you spread it apart and go under a light, that's why I created this thread.

 

Yes, I agree. OP and @EvansLawrence have shown the weak areas in the very worse conditions... parted and under harsh light. They are still weak areas and should be better, without question.

Even I had a weak area up through month 9. But it's filled in nicely over the last few months. My density is as good as seen in the videos. My doctors were Elif and Cengiz.

My heart goes out to all HT patients that don't get a great result. I hold HLC to a high bar. Yes, after 12 months (if still an issue), I would ask them for a free touch up. HLC should be willing to do a free touch up, 200, maybe 300 grafts. But to ask for a refund is absurd and to claim "failure" is ridiculous.

Edited December 21, 2021 by MachoVato

[asterix0]

7 hours ago, Gasthoerer said:

What? Quoting yourself: "Hence, all these reviews should be worthless in your eyes, no?" Of course we judge the results, by how good the craftmanship was and not only by the final "growth". We do it all the time:

- Distribution of doubles and singles

- Angles slits and rotation of the grafts

- Micro and macro design of the hairline

- Longtime planing

- etc. etc. 

You even say yourself post-op looks good...weird. 

Besides that: I have seen plenty of poor results of top clinics, including FUT by H&W. The clinics you mention have in total how many patient reports in here? 5? 10? All I am saying is: ignoring that poor growth can happen with any (!) clinic is misleading of newbies. Hair transplant is risky. 

And again: I never said that the OP should not investigate. I said: you might have to prepare to make a decision without knowing what happened.

Sorry, you are not making any sense and you are not helping the forum or the OP. You are trying to stir the pot. I am not going to waste more time into that. All is said anyway. Come back to me when you have found the reason for failed transplants. 

OP promised to show pics with styled hair, which gives us a better representation of the result and he already received great advice. Let us all wish him luck for his next decisions and steps. 

 

Talking with you is truly a waste of time, it seems logical reasoning is not your forte.

Of course OP may never figure out what happened. Our tools are limited, but he can further research and see what is more likely than not. 

You were talking about judging the "quality of the work". I am literally citing you word for word.

Tell me, from post-op pictures like the OP posted, or anyone else posted here, how can you tell:

1) How the grafts were stored after the extraction. 

2) If the grafts were extracted correctly or not (i.e. if they were transected).

3) If the placement was done just deep enough into the recipient area to grow properly. 

Please explain how you can judge these factors from just post op pictures. If you can provide this information I will apologize to you formally and admit you were right.

Further, why do you keep mentioning Hasson and Wong as some benchmark for an elite clinic that had inexplicable failed procedures? I did not mention them on my list of doctors for you to provide evidence for. I gave you a list, asked you for evidence of these "numerous failed procedures from elite clinics", and you promptly ignored that. I wonder why...

Obviously this discussion is pointless with you and is derailing this thread, but I hope OP can find some cause for his dilemna and come to a conclusion how best to resolve it. I think my advice is sensible and prudent to attempt, but of course I am not a doctor and an expert would know best how to advise him. 

Edited December 21, 2021 by asterix0

[Sitries1]

20 hours ago, asterix0 said:

I have not done extensive research to see how many transplants from this clinic failed. You can look for yourself and compile them, or someone else who has the time can do so. But certainly there have been enough that, for me personally, it would be enough to dissuade me not to proceed with them.

Your small test surgery of 400 FU is not comparable to what would happen with a 2900 procedure, which is what you stated to have had afterwards. The number of grafts is so much larger that the factors that can contribute to a failed transplant are much higher, i.e. competition for blood flow, overall trauma to the head and dermal tissue, potential nerve damage, etc. It is much more likely that you were always a good candidate and had the right dermatological "fertilizer", so to speak, for your grafts to grow well. And also that you went to a better clinic than the OP did. 

Overall though I am not interested to debate this with you, rather I came in to this thread to try to help OP figure out why his transplant failed. I don't think the "just because" helps in any way, nor do I think it's valid. I think there is always a scientific explanation as to why, it may be difficult to find it, but we are talking about cause and effect relationships here. 

There are three possibilities. Surgeon error, OP's biological condition, or both. You pick one and continue down the path to see what about how the surgeon performs can lead to such a result. You see if other patients had similar results and is there a pattern. If not, do a scalp biopsy and a full blood panel to see if it is your own deficiency somehow. 

So, my advice for OP is:

1) Do some research and see how many patients from this clinic have published testimonials similar to yours. If you can, reach out to them and see if the grafts ever grew. If there is a significant enough pattern, you can feel more confident that clinic/surgeon error is likely. Meaning, perhaps the implantation was not done right, perhaps the grafts were transected, perhaps they were not handled/stored properly when outside of the skin, there are many, many potential reasons.

2) If you cannot find anything significant here, go seek additional opinions from other surgeons/dermatologists. Do a complete blood and health panel, and perhaps a biopsy if it is recommended enough.

3) If there is nothing in (1), and everything is fine in (2), then perhaps there are no more tools left in the toolbox for OP to use to try to figure out why this happened. His best bet is to find the best surgeon he can then to minimize his risk of failure, and try for another procedure to correct this one. This would literally only be De Freitas, Cuoto, Konior, Dr. Pitella, Dr. Zarev, Dr. Bisanga, etc.

His transplant didn’t fail though. He has a small patch that needs a touch up! HLC are probably the best clinic in Turkey and they will sort that out for him no problem! If they turned around and didn’t want to know and didn’t offer to sort it then it would be unacceptable but I very much doubt that is going to be the case. They don’t have such a good reputation for no reason  - they consistently produce outstanding results.

There are lots of potential reasons why that patch didn’t grow so slandering the clinic before they have had a chance to sort it is not on!  There is no guarantee of success when it comes to any operation due to a multitude of factors - the blame cannot always be laid at the surgeon/clinics door.

Unfortunately the OP has just been unlucky on this occasion and he will have the inconvenience of going back out to Turkey to have the patch filled in but if you look on the bright side, I’m sure the clinic will not just touch up that area, they will look over the whole transplant and offer some more density to any other weak areas so you may get an overall better final Result. 

I wish you all the best in getting it sorted and I’m confident HLC will give you a great end result even though it may have taken longer than anticipated. 

[bloodhound]

@asterix0@Gasthoerer

Topic aside, that was a great debate. I think both of you make good points and had reasonable rebuttals. 

First I will visit a tri/dermatologist and see if there’s any existing hairs that could sprout in the future. If there’s not I will contact the clinic and ask for their input. I do not want to wait a full year just to be disappointed, at this point I don’t know who to go with… who’s faults it was etc. 

I appreciate both of you bringing good points to my attention and helping me in my decision when you didn’t have to, it really means a lot to me right now 

[bloodhound]

18 hours ago, MachoVato said:

Yes, I agree. OP and @EvansLawrence have shown the weak areas in the very worse conditions... parted and under harsh light. They are still weak areas and should be better, without question.

Even I had a weak area up through month 9. But it's filled in nicely over the last few months. My density is as good as seen in the videos. My doctors were Elif and Cengiz.

My heart goes out to all HT patients that don't get a great result. I hold HLC to a high bar. Yes, after 12 months (if still an issue), I would ask them for a free touch up. HLC should be willing to do a free touch up, 200, maybe 300 grafts. But to ask for a refund is absurd and to claim "failure" is ridiculous.

How would you compare your weak area to ours?

and can I ask why you went with a different clinic after HLC? 

[MachoVato]

1 hour ago, bloodhound said:

How would you compare your weak area to ours?

and can I ask why you went with a different clinic after HLC? 

My weak area was about the same as Evans. Yours appears less dense than mine was at month 8. Fortunately, it was on my right side, which was naturally covered over by my hair style, so it was always hidden. 

I had my second HT at month 9, after that everything seems to improve. I also switched to oral minoxidil at that time, so that might have contributed to the improvement? Not sure. (I do recommend oral minoxidil since I'm seeing good results from it, particularly around my ears which have improved)

Why did I go to Bisanga? I've answered this a few times, but basically I wanted an expert in donor management and temples and I had a much better budget. I requested quotes/dates from HLC, Bisanga, and De Freitas. De Freitas never responded. HLC had an opening in 4 months. Bisanga had an opening in 5 weeks. HLC was more than capable and I would have received a nice discount rate but I went to Bisanga. He's more detailed than HLC, it's a much smaller clinic and more personalized. But overall my experience was better with HLC.

If I get a third transplant, it will be a different doctor. Probably Mwamba. If I get a fourth, I'll go to someone else. That's just how I do things.

Your case is tricky. I don't think it'll suddenly get super dense, but it should improve over the next 3-4 months. If it still poor density, ask for a touch up. You paid for quality, give them an opportunity to make good on that.