Anyone heard of Blue Magic group in Turkey?

[Mir_a_Mir]

7 minutes ago, digi23 said:

Do you have any photos of your situation and how many grafts you need? I just seen that that shit hairmill quoted you 5500-6000 grafts which is quite alot of grafts. Are you a norwood 6 or?

I am not even sure you are a good candidate for surgery, but these hairmills accept anyone.

HI @digi23 here are my pics. May be I should have posted at the start of the thread. 

[Mir_a_Mir]

5 minutes ago, Portugal25 said:

This is simply not true.

You have to ask yourself why does Dr. Raymond Konior considered the best in the world for FUE does the most Doctor demanding technique which is stick&place if he could be doing a much less demanding technique like pre-made slits and get the same results?
If as you say “there’s no benefit from these different techniques” then that would make no sense!

Ofcourse a technique in which the Doctor extracts the graft and then implants each graft one at time immediately after making the punch is a better technique than punching thousands of holes and then implanting thousands of grafts.

DHI is the evolution of stick&place if done by skilled surgeon and a great team than can properly handle each graft by placing them one by one into implantor pens after extraction and then passing the implantor pen to the Doctor so he can use the implantor pen loaded with 1 graft to make the punch and implant the graft at the same time thus giving less trauma to the graft and reducing the time the graft stays out of the body. 

To say these techniques means nothing in the hands of skilled surgeons is “nonsense”!

Look at Dr. Couto and Dr. De Freitas work doing DHI. 

The best in the world are doing either stick&place or DHI. 

Hi @Portugal25 you bring up a good point. DHI seems to be the latest technique because it needs smaller incisions as the Choi pen is able to implant the graft in that small incisions compared to the FUE technique that requires comparatively bigger incisions because the grafts are implanted with forceps. 

Am I correct in my understanding? Please correct me if I am off. 

[digi23]

4 minutes ago, Portugal25 said:

This is simply not true.

You have to ask yourself why does Dr. Raymond Konior considered the best in the world for FUE does the most Doctor demanding technique which is stick&place if he could be doing a much less demanding technique like pre-made slits and get the same results? because as you say “there’s no benefit from these techniques”. 

Ofcourse a technique in which the Doctor extracts the graft and then implants each graft one at time immediately after making the punch is a better technique than punching thousands of holes and then implanting thousands of grafts.

DHI is the evolution of stick&place if done by skilled surgeon and a great team than can handle each graft placing them one by one into implantor pens and then the Doctor uses the implantor pen loaded with 1 graft to make the punch and implant the graft at the same time thus giving less trauma to the graft and reducing the time the graft stays out of the body. 

To say these techniques means nothing in the hands of skilled surgeons is “nonsense”!

Look at Dr. Couto and Dr. De Freitas work doing DHI. 

The best in the world are doing either stick&place or DHI. 

But why would some of the best in the world do pre made slits if it was so much benefit with DHI and stick and place? 

I know you are a big fan of these techniques. But why would Hasson & Wong, Hattingen, Dr Bisanga, Dr Lupanzula, Dr Feriduni etc do pre made slits then? They are amongst the absolute elite in the game, with Bisanga being my all time fav. If it was SO MUCH BENEFITS they would definitely adapt.

Yes I agree that these techniques is good to use if you are not skilled enough to plan a pre made slit procedure to be perfect.

[Portugal25]

Just now, Mir_a_Mir said:

Hi @Portugal25 you bring up a good point. DHI seems to be the latest technique because it needs smaller incisions as the Choi pen is able to implant the graft in that small incisions compared to the FUE technique that requires comparatively bigger incisions because the grafts are implanted with forceps. 

Am I correct in my understanding? Please correct me if I am off. 

DHI allows the punch to be smaller.
Pekiner extracted grafts from @PT#31 and they punch size is much bigger that the punch size used at his DHI surgery with Dr. Bruno Ferreira. 
The smaller the punch the quicker the  recovery and I do believe it also contributes to a better transaction rate. 
The Lion implantor pen is considered better than the Choi that’s is mostly used in Asia and Turkey. 

[digi23]

3 minutes ago, Mir_a_Mir said:

Hi @Portugal25 you bring up a good point. DHI seems to be the latest technique because it needs smaller incisions as the Choi pen is able to implant the graft in that small incisions compared to the FUE technique that requires comparatively bigger incisions because the grafts are implanted with forceps. 

Am I correct in my understanding? Please correct me if I am off. 

It is still not the first thing you should look at. Alot of Drs using pre made slits have 100x better results than some who does DHI or stick and place.

[Mir_a_Mir]

Well, @Portugal25 Dr. Yaman uses Yaman Pen.... Hehe. 

 

Hey @digi23 you were with him just recently, did Dr. Yaman use the Yaman pen to do the implantation? Or did you go with the FUE package that he used the forceps? 

[digi23]

11 minutes ago, Mir_a_Mir said:

HI @digi23 here are my pics. May be I should have posted at the start of the thread. 

Looks pretty decent, your donor area looks good. I think you should choose Bicer or Demirsoy for budget. Yaman if you are ok that techs do most work. With Yaman if you go through with him you should tell them you are from the forum and will do a review, I think you will get some special treatment then.

[digi23]

Just now, Mir_a_Mir said:

Well, @Portugal25 Dr. Yaman uses Yaman Pen.... Hehe. 

 

Hey @digi23 you were with him just recently, did Dr. Yaman use the Yaman pen to do the implantation? Or did you go with the FUE package that he used the forceps? 

They always use Yaman pen. 

[Portugal25]

16 minutes ago, digi23 said:

But why would some of the best in the world do pre made slits if it was so much benefit with DHI and stick and place? 

I know you are a big fan of these techniques. But why would Hasson & Wong, Hattingen, Dr Bisanga, Dr Lupanzula, Dr Feriduni etc do pre made slits then? They are amongst the absolute elite in the game, with Bisanga being my all time fav. If it was SO MUCH BENEFITS they would definitely adapt.

Yes I agree that these techniques is good to use if you are not skilled enough to plan a pre made slit procedure to be perfect.

It’s always about the quality of the Doctor and not the technique but if you look at mind blowing results using far fewer grafts it’s usually the Spanish Doctors like Dr. Couto that have done it using DHI. 

You have to understand that at the end of the day this is business and with pre-made slits a great Doctor with a amazing team can do up to 4 patients per day just doing the slits and crucial implantation on the hairline of each of these patients and they will all get great results. 

The shift to DHI will either require the Doctor to do the whole surgery meaning 3 less patients per day or he has to continue to do pre-made slits and have his team implant using implantor pens (like Dr. Laorwong does) but this to me make no sense because you lose the benefits from DHI that is to make the punch and implant the graft at the same time. 

I do believe some of the Doctors you stated will move to DHI but you have to remember that there’s a learning curve and they have doing pre-made slits for decades so they might not be so keen to change and get some not great results during their learning curve. 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Portugal25

[Portugal25]

4 minutes ago, Mir_a_Mir said:

Well, @Portugal25 Dr. Yaman uses Yaman Pen.... Hehe. 

 

Hey @digi23 you were with him just recently, did Dr. Yaman use the Yaman pen to do the implantation? Or did you go with the FUE package that he used the forceps? 

Go check real Yaman patients end results before making a decision. He has several botched surgeries at HRN and other foruns. 

[Mir_a_Mir]

5 minutes ago, Portugal25 said:

It’s always about the quality of the Doctor and not the technique but if you look at mind blowing results using far fewer grafts it’s usually the Spanish Doctors like Dr. Couto that have done it using DHI. 

You have to understand that at the end of the day this is business and with pre-made slits a great Doctor with a amazing team can do up to 4 patients per day just doing the slits and crucial implantation on the hairline.

The shift to DHI will either require the Doctor to do the whole surgery meaning 3 less patients per day or he has to continue to do pre-made slits and have his team implant using implantor pens (like Dr. Laorwong does) but this to me make no sense because you lose the benefits from DHI that is to make the punch and implant the graft at the same time. 

I do believe some of the Doctors you stated will move to DHI but you have to remember that there’s a learning curve and they have doing pre-made for decades so they might not be so keen to change and get some not great results during their learning curve. 

So @Portugal25 are you saying that with DHI, in reality there is not requirement for pre-made incisions? You know that is what I had thought initially but then I got confused and thought that incisions are required regardless of the use of the pen or not.

[Mir_a_Mir]

10 minutes ago, digi23 said:

They always use Yaman pen. 

Hey @digi23 I don't think they always use the Yaman pen or may be I am not reading this properly. Here is what I received from Dr. Yaman as my two options:

 

Interesting, looks like they do offer a procedure that does not. Here are the two options that I received from his office.

 

1st Package: DHI with Yaman Implanter for including;
* Pre and post consultations with doctor
* Blood analysis and PRP (Platelet-Rich Plasma)
* DHI Operation
* Post operative control and cure
* Post operative medicines
* Special shampoo and lotion for the first 10 washing
* First washing by a specialist
* 3 nights 5* hotel (double room-breakfast inc.)
* Transfers (airport-hotel-clinic-airport) 

2nd Package: Sapphire FUE for including;
* Pre and post consultations with doctor
* Blood analysis and PRP (Platelet-Rich Plasma)
* Operation
* Post operative control and cure
* Post operative medicines
* Special shampoo and lotion for the first 10 washing
* First washing by a specialist
* 3 nights 5* hotel (double room-breakfast inc.)
* Transfers (airport-hotel-clinic-airport)
As attachment I am sending you your online consultation photos so you can see how these grafts will be distributed. The hairline will be designed by Dr. Yaman during your face-to-face consultation. These photos are only DRAFT. 

 

In the operation there are 3 major steps of the surgery which are incisions step, extraction step and implantation step. Incision step is the first step of the operation and it's performed with sapphiere blade by Dr. Yaman. I also confirm that your consultation, hair analysis, hairline design, local anesthesia and incision steps are completed by Dr. Yaman himself too. 
Extraction is performed with low speed modified micro motor by our extraction experts. We have 2 extractionist working with us. One of them is Dr. Yaman’s brother Muhammed Ali Yaman who has been working in our clinic for 6 years. The other is Dr. Yaman’s cousin Ufuk Yaman who has been working with us for 6 years. Both have been trained by Dr. Yaman himself personally. They perform only extraction step of the operation. 
Implantation is performed in 2 different ways considering the package you choose. 

If you choose DHI with Yaman implanter; implantation is perfomed by the implantation team with Yaman Implanter. Dr. Yaman worked on developing Yaman Implanter for 5 years and 2 years ago he took its patent. Since than we have been using Yaman Implanter for implantation step. Our implantation team members have been educated and trained personally by Dr. Yaman himself only to use Yaman Implanter. 

If you choose Sapphire FUE; implantation step is performed by Dr. Yaman’s experienced implantation team carefully with FUE technique. 

[Portugal25]

Just now, Mir_a_Mir said:

So @Portugal25 are you saying that with DHI, in reality there is not requirement for pre-made incisions? You know that is what I had thought initially but then I got confused and thought that incisions are required regardless of the use of the pen or not.

Implantor pens are basically a hollow point needle loaded with a graft inside. When the Doctor push the button on the neddle/implantor pen it makes the punch/hole and implants the graft at the same time. 

[digi23]

3 minutes ago, Portugal25 said:

It’s always about the quality of the Doctor and not the technique but if you look at mind blowing results using far fewer grafts it’s usually the Spanish Doctors like Dr. Couto that have done it using DHI. 

You have to understand that at the end of the day this is business and with pre-made slits a great Doctor with a amazing team can do up to 4 patients per day just doing the slits and crucial implantation on the hairline.

The shift to DHI will either require the Doctor to do the whole surgery meaning 3 less patients per day or he has to continue to do pre-made slits and have his team implant using implantor pens (like Dr. Laorwong does) but this to me make no sense because you lose the benefits from DHI that is to make the punch and implant the graft at the same time. 

I do believe some of the Doctors you stated will move to DHI but you have to remember that there’s a learning curve if they do so and they have doing pre-made for decades and might not be so keen to change and get some not great results during their learning curve. 

But you have Drs like Cuoto using DHI doing 2 patients a day. De Freitas using DHI doing 2 patients a day. Jose Lorenzo using DHI doing 4 patients a day. 

For me it is more of a marketing gimmick, but in theory as you say it has its benefits. It might also be as you say that these Drs are performing some of the best work in the industry and do not really see any point changing their technique when they are amongst top 10 best hair transplant Drs in the world.

[Portugal25]

Just now, digi23 said:

But you have Drs like Cuoto using DHI doing 2 patients a day. De Freitas using DHI doing 2 patients a day. Jose Lorenzo using DHI doing 4 patients a day. 

For me it is more of a marketing gimmick, but in theory as you say it has its benefits. It might also be as you say that these Drs are performing some of the best work in the industry and do not really see any point changing their technique when they are amongst top 10 best hair transplant Drs in the world.

Dr. Couto can do 2 patients per day like Dr. Ximena Villa if it’s two patients with up to 2000 grafts. More than that it’s impossible when using DHI technique without pre-made slits and techs implanting. 
Dr. Lorenzo can have up to 4 patients per day at this clinic because Dr. Bruno Ferreira is also doing surgeries at his clinic.

[Mir_a_Mir]

2 minutes ago, Portugal25 said:

Implantor pens are basically a hollow point needle loaded with a graft inside. When the Doctor push the button on the neddle/implantor pen it makes the punch/hole and implants the graft at the same time. 

That is what I thought initially but then got confused because a lot of consultants were telling its DHI but the they were also saying that the incisions are necessary. I got lost there.

[Portugal25]

4 minutes ago, Mir_a_Mir said:

That is what I thought initially but then got confused because a lot of consultants were telling its DHI but the they were also saying that the incisions are necessary. I got lost there.

Have you read my other posts in this thread?

They still do pre-made slits because that way they can have the Doctor doing pre-made slits on several patients per day and the techs can implant with implantor pens on the pre-made slits. This basically means you don’t get any benefit from DHI. In this case I agree it’s a marketing gimmick used by low tier Doctors and hairmills to charge extra to uninformed patients.

This is a business and at the end of the day Stick&Place and DHI (without pre-made slits) is simply not cost effective and not as profitable as doing the pre-made slits technique on 4 patiens day. 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Portugal25

[Mir_a_Mir]

1 minute ago, Portugal25 said:

Dr. Couto can do 2 patients per day like Dr. Ximena Villa if it’s two patients with up to 2000 grafts. More than that it’s impossible when using DHI technique without pre-made slits and techs implanting. 
Dr. Lorenzo can have up to 4 patients per day at this clinic because Dr. Bruno Ferreira is also doing surgeries at his clinic.

@Portugal25 You hit that nail on its head with this point. I was initially told that the maximum grafts that can be done with the DHI technique is 3500 in one day. And that is why I was a bit surprised that Dr. Yaman office was telling me that they are do probably 4500 grafts in one day with the DHI technique.

[Fego]

36 minutes ago, Portugal25 said:

This is simply not true.

You have to ask yourself why does Dr. Raymond Konior considered the best in the world for FUE does the most Doctor demanding technique which is stick&place if he could be doing a much less demanding technique like pre-made slits and get the same results?
If as you say “there’s no benefit from these different techniques” then that would make no sense!

Ofcourse a technique in which the Doctor extracts the graft and then implants each graft one at time immediately after making the punch is a better technique than punching thousands of holes and then implanting thousands of grafts.

DHI is the evolution of stick&place if done by skilled surgeon and a great team than can properly handle each graft by placing them one by one into implantor pens after extraction and then passing the implantor pen to the Doctor so he can use the implantor pen loaded with 1 graft to make the punch and implant the graft at the same time thus giving less trauma to the graft and reducing the time the graft stays out of the body. 

To say these techniques means nothing in the hands of skilled surgeons is “nonsense”!

Look at Dr. Couto and Dr. De Freitas work doing DHI. 

The best in the world are doing either stick&place or DHI. 

Agree with you

[digi23]

7 minutes ago, Mir_a_Mir said:

Hey @digi23 I don't think they always use the Yaman pen or may be I am not reading this properly. Here is what I received from Dr. Yaman as my two options:

 

Interesting, looks like they do offer a procedure that does not. Here are the two options that I received from his office.

 

1st Package: DHI with Yaman Implanter for including;
* Pre and post consultations with doctor
* Blood analysis and PRP (Platelet-Rich Plasma)
* DHI Operation
* Post operative control and cure
* Post operative medicines
* Special shampoo and lotion for the first 10 washing
* First washing by a specialist
* 3 nights 5* hotel (double room-breakfast inc.)
* Transfers (airport-hotel-clinic-airport) 

2nd Package: Sapphire FUE for including;
* Pre and post consultations with doctor
* Blood analysis and PRP (Platelet-Rich Plasma)
* Operation
* Post operative control and cure
* Post operative medicines
* Special shampoo and lotion for the first 10 washing
* First washing by a specialist
* 3 nights 5* hotel (double room-breakfast inc.)
* Transfers (airport-hotel-clinic-airport)
As attachment I am sending you your online consultation photos so you can see how these grafts will be distributed. The hairline will be designed by Dr. Yaman during your face-to-face consultation. These photos are only DRAFT. 

 

In the operation there are 3 major steps of the surgery which are incisions step, extraction step and implantation step. Incision step is the first step of the operation and it's performed with sapphiere blade by Dr. Yaman. I also confirm that your consultation, hair analysis, hairline design, local anesthesia and incision steps are completed by Dr. Yaman himself too. 
Extraction is performed with low speed modified micro motor by our extraction experts. We have 2 extractionist working with us. One of them is Dr. Yaman’s brother Muhammed Ali Yaman who has been working in our clinic for 6 years. The other is Dr. Yaman’s cousin Ufuk Yaman who has been working with us for 6 years. Both have been trained by Dr. Yaman himself personally. They perform only extraction step of the operation. 
Implantation is performed in 2 different ways considering the package you choose. 

If you choose DHI with Yaman implanter; implantation is perfomed by the implantation team with Yaman Implanter. Dr. Yaman worked on developing Yaman Implanter for 5 years and 2 years ago he took its patent. Since than we have been using Yaman Implanter for implantation step. Our implantation team members have been educated and trained personally by Dr. Yaman himself only to use Yaman Implanter. 

If you choose Sapphire FUE; implantation step is performed by Dr. Yaman’s experienced implantation team carefully with FUE technique. 

I choose sapphire fue package with pre made slits. This is them doing implantation, they are def using Yaman implanter.

[Portugal25]

3 minutes ago, digi23 said:

I choose sapphire fue package with pre made slits. This is them doing implantation, they are def using Yaman implanter.

So you went along with the marketing gimmick and paid extra for the DHI technique without reaping its benefits because you had pre-made slits. Interesting…

[digi23]

2 minutes ago, Fego said:

Agree with you

I agree aswell, its difficult aswell to argue when its clear that it HAS benefits. But if someone like Dr Bisanga doing better work than the whole industry with pre made slits its not really making DHI, stick and place look like a huge benefit.

[digi23]

1 minute ago, Portugal25 said:

So you went along with the marketing gimmick and paid extra for the DHI technique without reaping its benefits because you had pre-made slits. Interesting…

I did not? You should read what I write. I did NOT choose DHI. I choose Sapphire FUE.

[Mir_a_Mir]

4 minutes ago, Portugal25 said:

Have you read my other posts in this thread?

They still do pre-made slits because that way they can have the Doctor doing pre-made slits on several patients per day and the techs can implant with implantor pens on the pre-made slits. This basically means you don’t get any benefit from DHI. In this case I agree it’s a marketing gimmick used by low tier Doctors and hairmills to charge extra to uninformed patients.

@Portugal25 I am following your comments in my thread, haven't got a chance for other threads. But like you said, these doctors are using the DHI technique name and using Choi implanter and still making the incisions so that they can covers more patients. I mean in that case its not technically the DHI technique, they are just using the Choi/Lion pen to implant. Technically its a FUE method.

[Britanium]

Just now, Mir_a_Mir said:

@Portugal25 I am following your comments in my thread, haven't got a chance for other threads. But like you said, these doctors are using the DHI technique name and using Choi implanter and still making the incisions so that they can covers more patients. I mean in that case its not technically the DHI technique, they are just using the Choi/Lion pen to implant. Technically its a FUE method.

All the methods are different ways/forms of FUE, however it’s marketed… the most recent sales technique is “scarless” which is total nonsense. Every method will involve scarring no matter how small/large the tool being used.