Hight estrogen, and finasteride. Question.

[Patro1995]

If I have high estrogen levels, will I be more likely to get side effects from taking finasteride? I want to start taking, and these tests came out average.

[pkipling]

This is definitely a conversation to have with your doctor based on just how high your estrogen levels naturally are, combined with how they could possibly increase by taking finasteride. My first question to your post is "Just exactly how high are your estrogen levels? Are they 5% higher than normal or 25% higher than normal, for example?" The answer makes a huge difference in any answer anyone could give you. Not to mention, the tricky part about side effects is that there's no way to know with certainty ahead of time whether or not you will experience them - so in a way, you just have to take the calculated risk and try it out.

Studies show that taking finasteride can slightly increase estrogen levels - but whether or not they increase enough to cause side effects varies from person to person. I'd have this conversation with your doctor and should you decide to take the medication, perhaps he'll work with you on monitoring your estrogen levels and keeping an eye out for any troubling side effects. 

[mustang]

I would start with a low dose and drop your body fat.

The less body fat the lower your estrogen will be the less chances of sides with Fin

[Melvin- Admin]

You can take both finasteride and an aromatase inhibitor for estrogen, but of course consult with your physician first.

[Patro1995]

18 hours ago, pkipling said:

This is definitely a conversation to have with your doctor based on just how high your estrogen levels naturally are, combined with how they could possibly increase by taking finasteride. My first question to your post is "Just exactly how high are your estrogen levels? Are they 5% higher than normal or 25% higher than normal, for example?" The answer makes a huge difference in any answer anyone could give you. Not to mention, the tricky part about side effects is that there's no way to know with certainty ahead of time whether or not you will experience them - so in a way, you just have to take the calculated risk and try it out.

Studies show that taking finasteride can slightly increase estrogen levels - but whether or not they increase enough to cause side effects varies from person to person. I'd have this conversation with your doctor and should you decide to take the medication, perhaps he'll work with you on monitoring your estrogen levels and keeping an eye out for any troubling side effects. 

I'm going to go to the endocrinologist, talk about the results, but before you can tell what do you think? here are photos.

[Patro1995]

18 hours ago, mustang said:

I would start with a low dose and drop your body fat.

The less body fat the lower your estrogen will be the less chances of sides with Fin

My Weight its only 78, and height 181

[mustang]

Your Total T is perfect

Your estradiol is high but if you feel OK it doesn't matter. If you want to lower it you can lose body fat (below 12%) and cut dairy from your diet

You can also eat cruciferous vegetables and take zinc and Cialis to block estrogen.

Your DHT is high thus low dose Fin will bring it into range but I would try Topical Fin or Dutasteride before going orally if I were you.

Your SHBG is low which means your free testosterone must be quite high which is causing your elevated DHT. Unfortunately manipulating SHBG is hard, you can crush it with the use of androgens but rising it is harder, the only thing you can do is cut out carbohydrates, drink red wine and workout. My SHBG is 50 and I drink a lot of red wine.

Your MPB or AA is currently being affected by both your DHT and Free T. You will likely need to get on CB0301 or Fluridil or some form of Topical Anti Androgen to prevent further loss aside from getting your DHT under control.

Never take an AI. It's not only extremely bad for your heart and brain but it will also thin out your hair drastically in most cases.

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by mustang

[JDEE0]

Yeah, don't take an AI just to be able to take fin, that would be extremely dangerous in the long term as chronically low Estrogen levels are very bad for cardiovascular health (amongst other things) as Mustang says. Will also make you just feel awful in general probably. The only time you should ever really be using one is if you're blasting gear and need to offset a huge rise in levels for a period of time to bring you back within range, if you use just to offset a relatively small jump in estrogen from fin, well then you're going to tank E levels into the ground which is not good. Also, yes, Estrogen is conducive to hair growth - look at menopausal women. 

To be honest, I would just try fin and not overthink things too much, if you're getting sides then you can get more bloodwork done and compare to baseline to see if Estrogen is the likely culprit and make a decision to drop it from there and try alternatives such as topical dut, mesotherapy, etc. 

 

 

[Curious25]

39 minutes ago, mustang said:

Your Total T is perfect

Your estradiol is high but if you feel OK it doesn't matter. If you want to lower it you can lose body fat (below 12%) and cut dairy from your diet

You can also eat cruciferous vegetables and take zinc and Cialis to block estrogen.

Your DHT is high thus low dose Fin will bring it into range but I would try Topical Fin or Dutasteride before going orally if I were you.

Your SHBG is low which means your free testosterone must be quite high which is causing your elevated DHT. Unfortunately manipulating SHBG is hard, you can crush it with the use of androgens but rising it is harder, the only thing you can do is cut out carbohydrates, drink red wine and workout. My SHBG is 50 and I drink a lot of red wine.

Your MPB or AA is currently being affected by both your DHT and Free T. You will likely need to get on CB0301 or Fluridil or some form of Topical Anti Androgen to prevent further loss aside from getting your DHT under control.

Never take an AI. It's not only extremely bad for your heart and brain but it will also thin out your hair drastically in most cases.

 

I know you’re meaning well man, but you really should just be advising this guy to go see a specialist doctor.
 

I know there’s an argument to say the onus is on him if he chooses to listen to medical advice from a random dude posting on a hair loss forum, but  vulnerable and/or desperate people are particularly susceptible to overlooking sense and logic, and acting on impulse - as a responsible community we should ensure that recommending users to book in appointments with doctors in the respective fields of medicine, is ALWAYS the way to go. 

[mustang]

3 hours ago, Curious25 said:

I know you’re meaning well man, but you really should just be advising this guy to go see a specialist doctor.
 

I know there’s an argument to say the onus is on him if he chooses to listen to medical advice from a random dude posting on a hair loss forum, but  vulnerable and/or desperate people are particularly susceptible to overlooking sense and logic, and acting on impulse - as a responsible community we should ensure that recommending users to book in appointments with doctors in the respective fields of medicine, is ALWAYS the way to go. 

I understand where you are coming from but there is a difference between giving medical advice and giving dietary advice. 

[Curious25]

35 minutes ago, mustang said:

I understand where you are coming from but there is a difference between giving medical advice and giving dietary advice. 

Read back your post mate - you recommended cialis, topical fin and dut, CB whatever it’s called (a research drug) and fluridil. 

[mustang]

23 minutes ago, Curious25 said:

Read back your post mate - you recommended cialis, topical fin and dut, CB whatever it’s called (a research drug) and fluridil. 

Did you bother reading his post? He wants to start Finasteride. If he is going to do that with or without a medical prescription then I'll step in and advice to the best of my abilities on a low dosage or even better,  a topical form. I have seen enough bloodwork and patients on these protocols to guide people on it and the safest way to deploy 5AR blockers. I am not prescribing medication here.

I am not a doctor yet but I am a former medical student and plant to finish my studies next march. I also happen to have suffered from PFS and will step in to advice on good will whether I have a diploma or not. The most knowledgeable people in endocrinology and pharmacology are ironically enough not doctors. This said, I am not offering medical advice but guidance based on my knowledge and experience.

I did a basic hematological marker confirmation and said " You will likely need to ...".  with respect to anti androgens. I did not advice him to take one.

If the forum admins feel I have crossed a line kindly remove my post.

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by mustang

[Patro1995]

21 hours ago, mustang said:

Your Total T is perfect

Your estradiol is high but if you feel OK it doesn't matter. If you want to lower it you can lose body fat (below 12%) and cut dairy from your diet

You can also eat cruciferous vegetables and take zinc and Cialis to block estrogen.

Your DHT is high thus low dose Fin will bring it into range but I would try Topical Fin or Dutasteride before going orally if I were you.

Your SHBG is low which means your free testosterone must be quite high which is causing your elevated DHT. Unfortunately manipulating SHBG is hard, you can crush it with the use of androgens but rising it is harder, the only thing you can do is cut out carbohydrates, drink red wine and workout. My SHBG is 50 and I drink a lot of red wine.

Your MPB or AA is currently being affected by both your DHT and Free T. You will likely need to get on CB0301 or Fluridil or some form of Topical Anti Androgen to prevent further loss aside from getting your DHT under control.

Never take an AI. It's not only extremely bad for your heart and brain but it will also thin out your hair drastically in most cases.

 

al? what is it? . what do you think i would just start with half a tablet a day? topical in my country is very expensive. unless I start doing myself to mix minoxidil with crushed tablets, there is a recipe for it, I'm a bit confused and I know that I have to start using something, I'm waiting for the answer and thanks.

[Patro1995]

second question, what supplements / vitamins do they use for these results and when taking finasteride to support the whole body, you mentioned a few things that I can add from food and vitamins, thanks.

[Patro1995]

21 hours ago, JDEE0 said:

Yeah, don't take an AI just to be able to take fin, that would be extremely dangerous in the long term as chronically low Estrogen levels are very bad for cardiovascular health (amongst other things) as Mustang says. Will also make you just feel awful in general probably. The only time you should ever really be using one is if you're blasting gear and need to offset a huge rise in levels for a period of time to bring you back within range, if you use just to offset a relatively small jump in estrogen from fin, well then you're going to tank E levels into the ground which is not good. Also, yes, Estrogen is conducive to hair growth - look at menopausal women. 

To be honest, I would just try fin and not overthink things too much, if you're getting sides then you can get more bloodwork done and compare to baseline to see if Estrogen is the likely culprit and make a decision to drop it from there and try alternatives such as topical dut, mesotherapy, etc. 

 

 

the above questions also do to you too. thanks so much for your help.

[mustang]

38 minutes ago, Patro1995 said:

al? what is it? . what do you think i would just start with half a tablet a day? topical in my country is very expensive. unless I start doing myself to mix minoxidil with crushed tablets, there is a recipe for it, I'm a bit confused and I know that I have to start using something, I'm waiting for the answer and thanks.

This is something you need to ask your doctor, we can not advice you on taking or not taking medication.

I can tell you from experience with patients and my personal one that using 2mg per week (0.5mg EOD) is tolerable for most people, however, I personally still experienced side effects.

Taking zinc, eating cruciferous and losing body fat will drop your Estrogen and help mitigated sides from Finasteride such as Gyno, ED and Testosterone.

I have not experienced sides with Topical Dutasteride 0.1%  but did with Topical Finasteride. 

Which country are you based on?

Edited September 29, 2021 by mustang

[TorontoMan]

@Patro1995 Patro your Estrogen levels are too high, you definitely need to see an endocrinologist to see what's causing such elevated levels. Like mentioned earlier, there are ways you could reduce estrogen naturally, one important being losing body fat. Your doctor may get you on an AI (aromatase inhibitor) to help get the estrogen within range. I would personally not get on finasteride until you have put an effort into reducing estrogen levels, as the use of finasteride is known to also bring estrogen levels up. Still your best course of action right now is took seek the advice of an endocrinologist and ask the possiblity of starting low dose finasteride or even topically  

[Patro1995]

1 hour ago, mustang said:

This is something you need to ask your doctor, we can not advice you on taking or not taking medication.

I can tell you from experience with patients and my personal one that using 2mg per week (0.5mg EOD) is tolerable for most people, however, I personally still experienced side effects.

Taking zinc, eating cruciferous and losing body fat will drop your Estrogen and help mitigated sides from Finasteride such as Gyno, ED and Testosterone.

I have not experienced sides with Topical Dutasteride 0.1%  but did with Topical Finasteride. 

Which country are you based on?

everything okay, it's hard for me to get to a good endocrinologist, that's why i want to take on my own, estrogen is such an obstacle? I am skinny and I have a good weight for height, I have nothing to lose weight on, maybe it's best to just start with a low dose or make my own topical based on minoxidil and tablets. Poland.

[mustang]

1 hour ago, TorontoMan said:

@Patro1995 Patro your Estrogen levels are too high, you definitely need to see an endocrinologist to see what's causing such elevated levels. Like mentioned earlier, there are ways you could reduce estrogen naturally, one important being losing body fat. Your doctor may get you on an AI (aromatase inhibitor) to help get the estrogen within range. I would personally not get on finasteride until you have put an effort into reducing estrogen levels, as the use of finasteride is known to also bring estrogen levels up. Still your best course of action right now is took seek the advice of an endocrinologist and ask the possiblity of starting low dose finasteride or even topically  

Diet and bodyfat is probably the cause. Quite intriguing that he has low SHBG and good TT with with high estrogen. You would think the opposite.

Having high estrogen is not a problem from a medical point of view. I have high natural levels and feel great on it. It is also cardio and neuroprotective. Taking an AI is harmful and I would discourage anyone from taking them from my hair perspective, it things out hair. I had a massive argument with the head of endocrinology at my University on this topic last year. 

Taking finasteride will almost always rise estrogen and prolactin. Not a good combo for ED.

 

[mustang]

4 minutes ago, Patro1995 said:

everything okay, it's hard for me to get to a good endocrinologist, that's why i want to take on my own, estrogen is such an obstacle? I am skinny and I have a good weight for height, I have nothing to lose weight on, maybe it's best to just start with a low dose or make my own topical based on minoxidil and tablets. Poland.

Do you eat a lot of diary (milk, yogurt, cheese?) soy sauce, wine?

Maybe repeat the test. Estrogen is hard to measure.

 

[Patro1995]

1 hour ago, mustang said:

Diet and bodyfat is probably the cause. Quite intriguing that he has low SHBG and good TT with with high estrogen. You would think the opposite.

Having high estrogen is not a problem from a medical point of view. I have high natural levels and feel great on it. It is also cardio and neuroprotective. Taking an AI is harmful and I would discourage anyone from taking them from my hair perspective, it things out hair. I had a massive argument with the head of endocrinology at my University on this topic last year. 

Taking finasteride will almost always rise estrogen and prolactin. Not a good combo for ED.

 

I don't eat much, normally, like every human being. what does ED mean? do you have naturally high estrogen and were you taking finasteride at the time? I can really see that the baldness is progressing so I'm in a hurry. I was sure I was going to take half a pill, but you scared me haha. So what do you prefer if I don't take anything so far? even a self-made topic?

[TorontoMan]

4 hours ago, mustang said:

Diet and bodyfat is probably the cause. Quite intriguing that he has low SHBG and good TT with with high estrogen. You would think the opposite.

Having high estrogen is not a problem from a medical point of view. I have high natural levels and feel great on it. It is also cardio and neuroprotective. Taking an AI is harmful and I would discourage anyone from taking them from my hair perspective, it things out hair. I had a massive argument with the head of endocrinology at my University on this topic last year. 

Taking finasteride will almost always rise estrogen and prolactin. Not a good combo for ED.

 

Yeah his Test to SHBG is great lol. According to some of the references he is slightly higher on estrogen, which isn't a massive problem I don't think and it could be due to timing and maybe sensitivity of the testing. My Test and estrogen levels went up as well on fin, while my SHBG stayed in a great place too. 
I'll post my blood work before and one year after 1mg of finasteride, might help others understand better:

 

[mustang]

Incredible that you have such high Total T with such low LH. Your Leydig cells and Gonads are working outstandingly well

Edited September 29, 2021 by mustang

[Patro1995]

I made an appointment in a week to see a good endocrinologist, we'll see what he will say and what we will do. Does finasteride also do good for transplanted hair? or only native?

[Gatsby]

10 minutes ago, Patro1995 said:

I made an appointment in a week to see a good endocrinologist, we'll see what he will say and what we will do. Does finasteride also do good for transplanted hair? or only native?

Both actually. There is no 'true safe donor zone' in the literal sense of the term.