3790 Grafts FUE NW6-7 by Dr. Ozlem Bicer, 02/07/2021

[SLA]

6 minutes ago, Z-- said:

Beat me to it! 100% this.

Yeah, definitely...I am sure you could probably get at least another 2k from scalp donor....and then there is the beard and of course the chest which I know Bicer tends to utilize.

 

[sukh123]

36 minutes ago, Eran said:

No miracles guys. All depends in the donor area.

I was Norwood 5A, not 7. 
I don’t think it’s important if it’s Zarev or Bicer or whatever. Once you have good donor and thick hair, you’ll be ok.

 

exactly as long as surgeons and techs carry out the procedure carefully, the biggest factor is your donor. Your just moving the hair from one place to another. It's the same hair, ironically a transplant actually doesn't give you more hair because your just moving the ones at the back to the front lol

[MachoVato]

Definite improvement over your starting point. But it does look like many grafts didn't survive, for reason unknown. I'm hesitant to point the finger at your hair thinness. If your hair was that thin, Bicer should have dense-packed accordingly. If not, the result would be thin, as we have here. I also think the area is too large for 3800 grafts, so that surely contributed to the lack of density.

I'm sure you were planning on a second HT to cover your crown anyways. Before going back to Bicer, please shop around again. Get evaluations and recommendations. 

If you don't have the beard/chest donor available, it may be best to leave your crown alone and just double-up in your front/top. That's tricky work and I would look at Ferreira and De Freitas just as examples, who have some nice cases of increasing density in a second pass.

[Melvin- Admin]

It's a definite improvement, but by no means perfect. That said, a Norwood 6-7 will require multiple procedures. I would also try and grow the hair out a little to aid in the illusion of density.

[Melvin- Admin]

It's a definite improvement, but by no means perfect. That said, a Norwood 6-7 will require multiple procedures. I would also try and grow the hair out a little to aid in the illusion of density.

[tokerutaichou]

9 hours ago, SLA said:

So, I think you want to grow it longer for sure as it will provide more of an illusion of density. Throw in a dash of fibers and it would look super full!

If you can get a round # 2, perhaps, Bicer can maximize your donor by infusing beard hairs to add more density to the mid-scalp; if you could get 1,500 beard hairs in the mid-scalp, if could thicken it up.

Then, maybe an additional 2k scalp and 1k beard for the crown.

If you did that, then I think you could look fairly full!

I will definitely start growing it longer. My barber tells me it looks better short, but I disagree.

11 hours ago, hope everything is nova said:

It's a decent result considering your Norwood 6 starting point. 

It's a visible improvement compared to baseline. 

I agree your hair isn't too thick though...And that is perhaps one of the main limitations in your case.  It's more on the thinner side of the spectrum but still I would expect a bit more coverage from 3800 grafts... That said, we cannot expect miracles on a Norwood 6. 

I know Dr. Bicer, she is nice and  seems to care about patients but just as Dr. Keser,  HLC or Pekiner I've never seen impressive "miracle" type results from them on advanced Norwoods. 

Have you seen Dr. Zarev's and Dr. Pitella's FUE work on higher Norwoods ?  Definitely worth exploring. 

Hattingen also has some crazy transformations on Norwood 6 with FUT but you would have you have lower yield with FUT now since u already had FUE. 

Last thing, you mentionned in the beginning of the thread that you starting shedding hairs as early as 8 days after surgery and by the 14th day most of your transplanted hairs had fallen out. This sounds a bit too early honestly...Some grafts may have not made it and might be this is one of the reasons why the yield/survival rate from your surgery with Dr. Bicer seems slightly below average.  But this is purely speculation on my part. 

 

Correction- the SCABS fell between 8-14 days, not the grafts. The grafts fell out at a very moderate pace between 2 and 8 weeks.

11 hours ago, Egy said:

I agree with @Hairmills and homeruns when he says that doctors like Keser, HLC or Pekiner have never seen miraculous results on elevated norwoods, Pekiner even rejects cases like this, Bicer has tried it anyway, I would just ask at the OP what did the doctor tell you before the procedure, that is, what expectations did you give him?

Dr. Bicer warned me that due to my severe hair loss and thin hairs, she can't give me full coverage in one operation. She said that because I'm tall, and most people won't see my head from above, it's best to focus on the front hairline. She also kept my hairline relatively high (in line with what remained of my native hair) so she would need to fill less area and improve the density. She also did a more moderate filling further back (you can see how she divided my head to two areas in the pre-op photos), and she didn't touch the crown area.

I am most likely going to do another HT, probably in about 6 months. I'm just not sure yet if I want to focus on the crown area, improve the density in the same area as in this HT, or lower the hairline. I'll probably open a new post about it to ask for opinions. Of course, I'll also consult with Dr. Bicer. I'll also check with some other clinics like @MachoVatohas suggested, but they're usually far more expensive so I'm conflicted about that.

 

Overall, I only got positive reactions from people around me. I just started a new workplace and people were shocked when I said I had a surgery. They said it looked great and natural.

Maybe the pictures of this month are in poor quality to the short hair and the lighting.

Here's a picture a colleague took of me about a month ago, just before I cut my hair.

Edited June 11, 2022 by tokerutaichou

[ITA]

2 hours ago, tokerutaichou said:

I will definitely start growing it longer. My barber tells me it looks better short, but I disagree.

Change barber

[Eran]

12 hours ago, Egy said:

Sorry, from the pre photos you looked like a much higher norwood.

No problem, I mentioned it only because I don’t think it is possible to get my results with Norwood 7. So to avoid misunderstandings with potential candidates that do research out there…

 

[ITA]

1 hour ago, Eran said:

No problem, I mentioned it only because I don’t think it is possible to get my results with Norwood 7. So to avoid misunderstandings with potential candidates that do research out there…

Ok, even if 5A seems a little bit to me, anyway, if you say so, it's ok, I think Dr. Bicer told you so, right?

[Gatsby]

For 3,800 grafts you have achieved what is the number one goal in a successful hair transplant and that is naturalness. You in no way appear to look like anything has been done. Sure it might look slightly thinning which in fact is what gives it it's natural look. When you enter Norwood 6/7 loss a second procedure for greater coverage is pretty much a given. I know Dr Bicer prefers this approach and it gives you a lot of advantages using this method. All the best!

[SLA]

Yes, photo with longer hair looks much fuller 

[Eran]

4 hours ago, Egy said:

Ok, even if 5A seems a little bit to me, anyway, if you say so, it's ok, I think Dr. Bicer told you so, right?

Yes, 5A to 6. More 6 then 5A actually but my upper sides are dense so cover was easier.

 

[tokerutaichou]

12 months update

So, it's finally been one year since the surgery.

I can't say that the result is perfect, but since my hair loss was so severe, I am pretty satisfied with the results.

On this note, I should probably let my hair grow even longer. The photos here are about 7 weeks since my last haircut.

I should mention that when I had the operation, I let my hair grow for about 3 months. So I hope it will look even better in the near future.

What do you think?

From here on, I'll update every 2 months. I'll probably get another HT early next year. In which case, I'll move my updates to a new thread and add a post here about it.

[THE GAME]

We have the exact same hair loss pattern and i had my hair transplant with Dr Bicer on june 1st . I am 1 month post op our heads look similar even a month post op. I also have thin hair like you. We had virtually the same amount of hair pre HT and i am a norwood 6. 

 

what i discussed with Dr Bicer and even the other doctors pre picking Dr Bicer was that i would need a Second  Ht. I am assuming this was made clear to you as well. Our hair loss is extensive and it would be impossible To get full coverage with 3800 grafts. I got 3900 i am expecting similar results to you . Other then a few exceptions from Zarev and pinto (and even them) 7000+ grafts are need to achieve full density for a norwood 6 or 7 . 
 

Congrats on the new hair it looks way better then before . Are you taking any meds ? Are you planning on going back to Bicer??

Edited July 3, 2022 by THE GAME

[MachoVato]

I can see why you're not totally happy. It looks like many grafts didn't survive. You're certainly better off than when you started, but you will definitely need another transplant. Fortunately your donor seems ok. For now you can try fibers to reduce the thin appearance. 

[tokerutaichou]

6 hours ago, THE GAME said:

We have the exact same hair loss pattern and i had my hair transplant with Dr Bicer on june 1st . I am 1 month post op our heads look similar even a month post op. I also have thin hair like you. We had virtually the same amount of hair pre HT and i am a norwood 6. 

 

what i discussed with Dr Bicer and even the other doctors pre picking Dr Bicer was that i would need a Second  Ht. I am assuming this was made clear to you as well. Our hair loss is extensive and it would be impossible To get full coverage with 3800 grafts. I got 3900 i am expecting similar results to you . Other then a few exceptions from Zarev and pinto (and even them) 7000+ grafts are need to achieve full density for a norwood 6 or 7 . 
 

Congrats on the new hair it looks way better then before . Are you taking any meds ? Are you planning on going back to Bicer??

I'm taking finasteride every day and biotin every other day.

Dr. Bicer said it isn't really necessary in her opinion, but since I started taking them before the operation, she said I can continue.

And I might go back to Bicer, but I will check again with other clinics before deciding.

Good luck with your growth!

[Gatsby]

Did Dr Bicer say that you will require a two step approach (a second surgery after 12 months)?

[Melvin- Admin]

On 6/11/2022 at 1:26 AM, Egy said:

Change barber

^This, it's a common misconception that shorter hair looks thicker. That is not true at ALL. Longer hair covers more scalp. The longer your hair, the more visual density you will have, especially if you layer your hair, by combing it back or sideways. 

[Marko7t4]

I’d say it looks like a good result based on the amount of grafts/amount of hair loss originally. You’ll need a second HT to get more density, but you should be pleased with the outcome after only 1 HT. 

[Eran]

You should have 7500-8000 grafts min. To cover your area.

second HT will solve the density issue, no worries, I’ve been there as well.

up to 4000 grafts giving the exact result you’ve got.

[Jackdaniels]

On 7/4/2022 at 6:48 AM, MachoVato said:

I can see why you're not totally happy. It looks like many grafts didn't survive. You're certainly better off than when you started, but you will definitely need another transplant. Fortunately your donor seems ok. For now you can try fibers to reduce the thin appearance. 

i agree with you. Of course he is better than before but the result looks average and lacks of density. What do you think was the total survival rate of grafts, because you said that many grafts did not survive.

[MachoVato]

1 hour ago, asda said:

i agree with you. Of course he is better than before but the result looks average and lacks of density. What do you think was the total survival rate of grafts, because you said that many grafts did not survive.

With the limited photos, I'd guess maybe 25% didn't come through? Maybe 1000 grafts? I'm completely guessing. 

I don't agree that the complication is that he's a NW6 or 7. The transplant only covered the front half and only 3800 grafts were used. I think he could have used more, but it was the right decision to minimize the grafts, considering the donor isn't very strong. So being conservative was smart.

Of course, for full coverage he needs 2 procedures. Saving the crown for last. But the hairline didn't come through, which is the most important part since that is what people see when they are looking at him.

Normally I would recommend going to a different doctor, but not here. I would go back to Bicer and ask her to make it better. Maybe she'll do it at a reduced price, I'm sure she wants a good outcome. Maybe add beard grafts, it looks like that might be available. Especially since they are thicker hairs. 

I also agree to change hair style. Yes, the top would look better with more length. And remember, shorter on the sides/back makes the top look more full. Maybe even a "low fade". It makes a big difference how people see the hair.

[THE TRUTH]

Yeah I would second what  Tony said here. 

Bicer is good. I like her. But I always say she is not necessarily the best option for high Norwoods. 

For advanced Norwoods and thin donor hair, I would look into Hattingen FUT. They are excellent. 

Now the problem with  getting FUT after FUE is that the yield is going to be reduced. That's why it would could have been woser to start with FUT. 

Otherwise Zarev, Sethi, Pitella are you best bets for advanced baldness in FUE. 

[SLA]

I think your results look solid for 3,800 grafts and fine hair- maybe you would have expected a little more density, but it is not half bad! I would grow hair longer and a dash of fibers would make look full.

Next HT, you might add some grafts to gain density in the mid-scalp and cover the crown.

You are in good shape!

[TakeAction]

That's a major improvement, even if it didn't come out perfectly. How often are you using fibers, if at all?