Confused between eugenix.in and Dr Bicer

[bald007]

Hello Fellow members -

I have been struggling with hair loss for very long and right now at NW6. It has definitely taken a toll on my confidence and after a lot of battle I am thinking of going for HT. After reading a lot of reviews and seeing the results and initial consultations (virtual), I have narrowed down two clinics, 

1. eugenix India

2. Dr Bicer Turkey

eugenix initially said I'd need around 4700 grafts, 2500 to cover the front and mid scalp and 2000 for the crown in one session. Later one of the Dr looked at the donor area picture carefully and said they can only do frontal part and crown after a year as my donor area is weak. 

Dr Bicer on the other hand said I'd need 4000 grafts for the front and mid scalp and nothing for crown due to weak donor. They said to revisit the crown after the result of the first HT. 

 

This is a tough choice between the two, price wise they are the same unless I go with higher package with eugenix. 

 

Does anyone have any experiences and have any recommendations here? I personally like that Dr Bicer will be performing the surgery herself, whereas on the eugenix side it'll be the trained experts. 

[SLA]

Did Eugenix talk anything about using beard grafts to mix in with your scalp donor?

In a situation like yours, the beard can be your major friend and I have seen a lot of success with Eugenix.

[bald007]

5 minutes ago, SLA said:

Did Eugenix talk anything about using beard grafts to mix in with your scalp donor?

In a situation like yours, the beard can be your major friend and I have seen a lot of success with Eugenix.

Yes, Eugenix did talk about using Beard grafts. 

Dr Bicer didn't say about using beard grafts originally but when I asked explicitly about that, said it's not great source and can't guarantee the result. 

[SLA]

As I have seen, Eugenix are masters with beard hair which could make all the difference in the world for you. They know how to mix scalp and beard primarliy in the mid-scalp region. Utilizing beard may get you to full coverage after 2 sittings. If you went with Bicer using only scalp, you might have to live with a bare crown.

As for beard, there are some potential limitations. (Just posted this in another post so just had to cut and paste)

1. Different cycles than scalp hair- beard hair can go into resting (telogen) phase more often giving transplant appearance of being more sparse at times.

2. While beard hair diameter is more robust than scalp, they usually only have 1 hair per graft rather than 2-3 commonly found in scalp grafts. One doc said that you can think of one beard graft as 60-70% of one scalp graft

3. Not everyone's beard grows exceptionally well

4. Some people's beards tend to nicely complement scalp hair, but for others there is a big mismatch such as straight scalp hair but super wavy beard hair

Dr. Arika from Eugenix with tons of beard hair experience told me- 60% of the time, beard hair on scalp achieves excellent results, 20% of time moderate and 10-20% of time disasterous.

I have heard most men can get 3-4k grafts from beard over the course of 2 sittings.

On the bright side, those with very strong beards can get more. There is a case of someone whose story is in this forum named Rahul who went to Eugenix. He was severely bald NW7+ and had a depleted donor from a couple of other failed or partially failed HT surgeries. Since his beard was super strong, over the course of 3 surgeries, they harvested not much more than 1k scalp grafts, and 8.5k+ beard grafts and I believe a few thousand from the chest to create unbelievable results. The way the doc described his beard genetics was they are so strong that he needed to shave 2x per day.

I think the two key questions are the following:

1. Is your beard hair somewhat similar to your scalp hair in terms of appearance and not significantly different (ie. one curly and the other straight)?

2. How fast does your beard grow? For instance, if you shaved this morning, what will your beard look like 24 and 48 hour later? Dr. Arika asked me this question and when I said that if I shave this morning, the next morning I can see that something has changed giving the outline of a beard but no real stubble until day 2, she told me I probably have between 3-4k lifetime beard grafts.

Let Eugenix know that you understand your scalp donor is not the strongest, but you desire to get as close to full coverage as possible in 2-3 sittings and wanted to know what they think about your lifetime graft and beard donor potential.

Hope this helps!

[bald007]

7 minutes ago, SLA said:

1. Is your beard hair somewhat similar to your scalp hair in terms of appearance and not significantly different (ie. one curly and the other straight)?

2. How fast does your beard grow? For instance, if you shaved this morning, what will your beard look like 24 and 48 hour later? Dr. Arika asked me this question and when I said that if I shave this morning, the next morning I can see that something has changed giving the outline of a beard but no real stubble until day 2, she told me I probably have between 3-4k lifetime beard grafts.

Appreciate your clarification on this.

1. My beard hairs are somewhat similar to scalp, both straight

2. I have strong beard growth and get my stubble look quickly between 24 to 48 hours. I'll pass on these details to Eugenix. 

[SLA]

Based upon what I have seen Eugenix do with high NWs with non-optimal scalp donor, I vote for them all the way. Just check this forum and you can see many examples of working with these types of patients to give complete coverage who you would have thought were beyond repair! Their secret is knowing well how to infuse beard with scalp.

Any reason why you are not opting to do FUT? There is some evidence showing that if you can maximize donor grafts over a lifetime by doing FUT and FUE.

 

 

[bald007]

2 hours ago, SLA said:

Any reason why you are not opting to do FUT? 

Bit scared with scar and also looking for faster recovery time. 

[Melvin- Admin]

They are both great surgeons. I would say Eugenix has the largest portfolio for Norwood 6s. Can you share pictures of your hair loss,

[Gatsby]

@bald007 If you are a Norwood 6 you may want to lean towards Eugenix. I say this only due to their high volume of Norwood 6 success results and how they have mastered the use of beard donor hair. Again it’s just a suggestion as both Dr Bicer and Eugenix are very good. For me (a Norwood 6) I would choose Eugenix. However whoever you choose all the best!

[bald007]

On 4/20/2021 at 4:08 PM, Melvin-Moderator said:

Can you share pictures of your hair loss,

Sorry for the delayed response, here are the pictures 

[bald007]

Eugenix told me that I need 3000 grafts (including beard ones) to restore the frontal look whereas Dr Bicer said 4000. I am not sure based on what they get to this number. 

[Britanium]

I would also agree that Eugenix are going to probably be the best choice for you. So many High Norwood success cases. And they do appear to be the best in utilising beard grafts with very good results. @Zoomsteris a prime example of this. 🙏

[bald007]

19 minutes ago, JohnAC71 said:

So many High Norwood success cases.

Thanks! I was looking at the cases on Eugenix site for NW6 level and saw that most of the cases had over 5000 grafts but still not enough density, I may have unrealistic expectations but would they be able to give enough density with 3000 grafts?

Edited April 22, 2021 by bald007

[Britanium]

The 2 stage approach you mentioned from Eugenix would give you good coverage in the frontal third and then hopefully further coverage in the second session. It is about being realistic about what can be achieved with a weaker donor area. Giving you back a hairline and addressing the front would be the way to start as they have suggested. Utilising beard grafts will hopefully give you a density boost. It’s good your looking at what can be achieved though. I’m a fellow Norwood 6 and am also looking to Eugenix for my 6th Ht 🤩 

[bald007]

14 minutes ago, JohnAC71 said:

I’m a fellow Norwood 6 and am also looking to Eugenix for my 6th Ht 🤩 

6th HT Wow! I was like let's wrap it in one session 😆

[Britanium]

2 minutes ago, bald007 said:

6th HT Wow! I was like let's wrap it in one session 😆

These days I would have gone for a Bisanga FUT/FUE combo ht 😂 however Eugenix are doing pretty amazing with FUE/Beard..

 

[SLA]

Definitely think 2-3 stage approach. Each case is different and depends on hair characteristics on how many grafts are needed/utilized. Eugenix tends to use fewer grafts as a whole as they are very good with doing more with less, which is why they said 3k grafts while another doctor said 4k. Eugenix seems to be very conscious of optimizing the donor region.

As for density, if you desire more density after 2 HTs, you can get more density in areas provided you have additional donor resources- scalp and/or beard.

I have seen cases with Eugenix in which they added density over the course of 2 or 3 HTs. @Niko1is a good example of progressive density.

@Zoomstergot excellent results and while I don't think he needs more, he is planning a 2nd HT with Eugenix to get more density. 

Even if you don't get superb density, you can always supplement by getting SMP and/or use a light dusting of fibers.

Hope this helps!

 

[kramer79]

14 hours ago, JohnAC71 said:

These days I would have gone for a Bisanga FUT/FUE combo ht 😂 however Eugenix are doing pretty amazing with FUE/Beard..

 

Why not go for the FUT/FUE/Beard super combo

[Britanium]

The full triple 😂 actually I would have done this rather than x5 and still needed another... much better options these days 🙏

[Britanium]

@bald007 have you considered Dr Bisanga ? The combo hts they do are pretty impressive. You could combine FUT/FUE and even BHT. Plenty of high Norwood cases. Always good to consider your options. 
 

[bald007]

2 hours ago, JohnAC71 said:

have you considered Dr Bisanga ?

I did reach out but they are not providing online consultation and asked for in person consultation. They didn't provide how many grafts are needed but said it depends from person to person and that's why in person will give more accurate estimate. So, I have to fly to Belgium to get an estimate or wait for him to be in the states (which is uncertain for now due to COVID)

Also, I found them to be bit expensive compared to Eugenix and Dr Bicer. 

[Ajamilo]

5 hours ago, SLA said:

Definitely think 2-3 stage approach. Each case is different and depends on hair characteristics on how many grafts are needed/utilized. Eugenix tends to use fewer grafts as a whole as they are very good with doing more with less, which is why they said 3k grafts while another doctor said 4k. Eugenix seems to be very conscious of optimizing the donor region.

As for density, if you desire more density after 2 HTs, you can get more density in areas provided you have additional donor resources- scalp and/or beard.

I have seen cases with Eugenix in which they added density over the course of 2 or 3 HTs. @Niko1is a good example of progressive density.

@Zoomstergot excellent results and while I don't think he needs more, he is planning a 2nd HT with Eugenix to get more density. 

Even if you don't get superb density, you can always supplement by getting SMP and/or use a light dusting of fibers.

Hope this helps!

 

Always wondering regarding smp and hair transplant. Would it look fake with smp or will it look like better? 

[SLA]

@Ajamilogo to the last post on Monday in the thread I posted here to see some examples of how SMP might 'thicken' a HT.

 

 

 

 

[bald007]

21 hours ago, SLA said:

@Ajamilogo to the last post on Monday in the thread I posted here to see some examples of how SMP might 'thicken' a HT.

 

 

 

 

What's typical cost of SMP? Is it safe on the skin? I have never heard of SMP before so had to look up on that but based on what I saw the results are amazing! Also, what happens to existing hair, does it always need to be kept short?

[Britanium]

@Gatsbyis a good guy to ask about SMP ! and @hairthere of course 🙏