Senior Member Mark2010 Posted March 29, 2021 Senior Member Share Posted March 29, 2021 Anyone considering going on Finasteride should read this page before they take it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-finasteride_syndrome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Storyteller Posted March 30, 2021 Regular Member Share Posted March 30, 2021 Ok,iam not really sure how wiki works but i think everyone can edit a post or article there,all it takes is an account.That doesn't make PFS more valid or invalid.Irving's reseach is full of holes and inconsistencies,no scientific criteria were used to back up his theories,it was just guys claiming that finasteride caused them side effects but without providing any other detail or taking into account other important factors individually.Having said that,i would not take this study seriously,at least not more than i did before added in wiki. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member champybaby Posted March 30, 2021 Senior Member Share Posted March 30, 2021 What is up with OP's avatar? I don't understand the sudden campaign against meds like fin. Never used to be like this. Probably Big Transplant doing this as it encourages people to lose their hair lol 1 FUT procedure w/ Dr. K (2012) Second FUT, Dr. K, Nov. 2020 (mini update) Third procedure, FUE, Dr. K, 03/21, 400 beard to scar (latest update) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member j1mmy Posted March 30, 2021 Regular Member Share Posted March 30, 2021 Maybe i'll make a separate page for this, rather than just a subsection: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspirin#Adverse_effects 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member hairman22 Posted March 30, 2021 Senior Member Share Posted March 30, 2021 3 hours ago, champybaby said: What is up with OP's avatar? I don't understand the sudden campaign against meds like fin. Never used to be like this. Probably Big Transplant doing this as it encourages people to lose their hair lol PFS is nothing to be laughing about. I had mild PFS but thankfully 95% recovered. It was hell. It is real. The guy Mark is probably just angry at what has happened I dont blame him. Many dont get side affects. But blood work should be mandatory before you take this drug, If you have lower DHT levels already before taking the drug you will be in trouble. Higher natural DHT levels & you will probably be ok. Doctors should be giving the drug before blood work is done first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member champybaby Posted March 30, 2021 Senior Member Share Posted March 30, 2021 I'm not discounting your life experiences, but overall, it's my belief that sides are born from issues with a balding man's psyche. The anecdotal evidence on this forum suggests that the majority of people get sides, which I'm hard pressed to believe. FUT procedure w/ Dr. K (2012) Second FUT, Dr. K, Nov. 2020 (mini update) Third procedure, FUE, Dr. K, 03/21, 400 beard to scar (latest update) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member caricatura Posted March 30, 2021 Regular Member Share Posted March 30, 2021 12 minutes ago, champybaby said: I'm not discounting your life experiences, but overall, it's my belief that sides are born from issues with a balding man's psyche. The anecdotal evidence on this forum suggests that the majority of people get sides, which I'm hard pressed to believe. This is silly. The forum's most active member and moderator, @Melvin-Moderator, experienced real, physiological sides. I did too. Nothing about "the balding man's psyche." If anything, contrary to everything I was experiencing, I tried to convince myself otherwise--that I didn't have side effects--because I wanted Fin. to work. I'm glad it works for you; count yourself lucky. Also, "Big Transplant" massively depends on Fin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member champybaby Posted March 30, 2021 Senior Member Share Posted March 30, 2021 53 minutes ago, caricatura said: This is silly. The forum's most active member and moderator, @Melvin-Moderator, experienced real, physiological sides. I did too. Nothing about "the balding man's psyche." If anything, contrary to everything I was experiencing, I tried to convince myself otherwise--that I didn't have side effects--because I wanted Fin. to work. I'm glad it works for you; count yourself lucky. Also, "Big Transplant" massively depends on Fin. It's not silly when you look at the data, which suggests that about 2% experience sides while another 2% or so experience sides while on placebo. 1 FUT procedure w/ Dr. K (2012) Second FUT, Dr. K, Nov. 2020 (mini update) Third procedure, FUE, Dr. K, 03/21, 400 beard to scar (latest update) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member ciaus Posted March 30, 2021 Senior Member Share Posted March 30, 2021 4 hours ago, caricatura said: I'm glad it works for you; count yourself lucky. 2% is a relatively very small number of people getting side effects. The 98% of us are not lucky, its the 2% that are very unlucky, and they have my sincere belief and sympathy. My advice is if you are worried about the potential for side effects skip the online rabbit holes of anecdotes, wikis, videos, etc and go to your doctor and track your progress with blood work. Otherwise you're going to scare the hell out of yourself trying to sort through what is BS and what is truth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member j1mmy Posted March 30, 2021 Regular Member Share Posted March 30, 2021 I'm sure this guy is a little special, but humour me, I was curious. I looked at his posting history, his first threads on the same day in 2010 were about taking saw palmetto, taking finasteride, taking some other non-FDA item, and then a couple of weeks later asking whether his swollen lips were caused by finasteride. Inferring the issue but don't get me started. He returned 5 years later, to just make regular threads quoting scare media about propecia, not seemingly interacting with posters. This is why people don't take you seriously @Mark2010, If you want to be taken seriously, you should interact with people and share your feelings, if you want to help people. Right now you just seem like the crazy drunk guy people avoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member caricatura Posted March 30, 2021 Regular Member Share Posted March 30, 2021 Suffice it to say I don't believe the 2% statistic is accurate. Of the many friends I have out in the real world, many of them (I'd say about 3 out of the 7 I know who've tried Fin.) also experienced serious sides and decided to quit. None of them did research on the drug beforehand. I did, but was hoping and expecting it to work. There's little incentive for people to make up side effects for a drug that would actually alleviate another psychically large problem for them. Whether PFS exists or not, I can't say, but I and many others are living proof that the drug can have real physiological effects, and is unfortunately not viable for long-term treatment. That said, I recommend anyone suffering from hair loss to at least try Fin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member ciaus Posted March 30, 2021 Senior Member Share Posted March 30, 2021 31 minutes ago, caricatura said: Suffice it to say I don't believe the 2% statistic is accurate. Of the many friends I have out in the real world, many of them (I'd say about 3 out of the 7 I know who've tried Fin.) No offense, but I believe more in the millions of prescriptions filled each year than 3 out of 7 of your friends. And that's not to say I don't believe your friends legitimately have side effects. From personal social circles to the online world in general, this topic is extremely skewed because the vast majority of guys not having any side effects don't bother to talk about their experience. And while hoping and expecting it to work is a good place to start when starting finasteride, it doesn't require someone to do much of any research to at least know or have casually overheard about the potential for sexual side effects. Its pretty much common knowledge like smoking causes cancer. And that can be enough of a seed in the back of the mind of a guy to cause some imaginary problems. https://clincalc.com/DrugStats/Drugs/Finasteride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member TorontoMan Posted March 30, 2021 Senior Member Share Posted March 30, 2021 I believe that side effects are likely understated, but not by much. When they go about doing these trials they procure ppl for testing by putting out ads that pay the individual for their participation, & my assumption is that individuals who choose to participate in trials like these are often not well off and doing it for reasons of financial distress or at least need extra money. So they're told that the trial will last X amount of years and they'll be paid X amount for their compliance, so an individual who is participating for financial gain might have more incentive to stay compliant and complete the entire trial to earn money. This is pure speculation on my end.. but they also have controls in place to avoid selection bias. For example they won't explicitly ask an individual if they're experiencing erectile dysfunction, they're likely given an array of potential options that identifies many markers of overall health so to eliminate the chance of someone understanding that they should be thinking about their sexual health and potentially bringing on a nocebo effect. Anyway I'm rambling, but there are definitely different trade-offs for different ppl. I think a lot of ppl overlook just how detrimental androgenic alopecia is to a person's mental health. The first time you found out you're experiencing hair loss is something you don't forget and becomes engraved in your memory bank because its awful. Then you come online to find out that your options are limited and involve altering your hormones, which you likely never had to do before and never considered it. Then you look into all these annecdotes and strangers online tell you about all sorts of incidences with the medication, it works for many, and some claim its killing them etc. The whole game is one large pill to swallow, pun intended, and some men come into it so devasted and broken already that it compounds with the constant worry about their hair and now the added pressure of potentially being impotent. Its very tough. Ill just speak for myself, and my views are likely to change in the future, but for me the small potentials of side effects outweigh the benefits of me feeling my best, and for the time being my hair has a relation to how I look and feel. My experience one year on fin so far has overall been positive, but I believe thats because I've taken the time and actually written out the trade-offs for myself. I've also been honest with my partner, and I let her know what I'm doing what it could potentially mean and it alleviate that mental pressure, I don't think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Mark2010 Posted March 31, 2021 Author Senior Member Share Posted March 31, 2021 (edited) 16 hours ago, j1mmy said: I'm sure this guy is a little special, but humour me, I was curious. I looked at his posting history, his first threads on the same day in 2010 were about taking saw palmetto, taking finasteride, taking some other non-FDA item, and then a couple of weeks later asking whether his swollen lips were caused by finasteride. Inferring the issue but don't get me started. He returned 5 years later, to just make regular threads quoting scare media about propecia, not seemingly interacting with posters. This is why people don't take you seriously @Mark2010, If you want to be taken seriously, you should interact with people and share your feelings, if you want to help people. Right now you just seem like the crazy drunk guy people avoid. PFS is very real there is no point of me trying to engage with people who want to deny reality. Reuters even reported that Merck covered up Proepcia's side effects. They would not have needed to do that if Propecia was really that "safe". https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-courts-secrecy-propecia/ Edited March 31, 2021 by Mark2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Mark2010 Posted March 31, 2021 Author Senior Member Share Posted March 31, 2021 Propecia is a form of Russian Roulette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Mark2010 Posted March 31, 2021 Author Senior Member Share Posted March 31, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member j1mmy Posted March 31, 2021 Regular Member Share Posted March 31, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Mark2010 said: PFS is very real there is no point of me trying to engage with people who want to deny reality. Reuters even reported that Merck covered up Proepcia's side effects. They would not have needed to do that if Propecia was really that "safe". https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-courts-secrecy-propecia/ Nobody is saying that they know such a thing "doesn't" exist. Rather, it is no different than the various birth control pills. A minority of women suffer side effects, and some experience no doubt long-lasting side effects. Drugs are approved based on clinical trials, and their safety profiles. Dutasteride is in fact the most prescribed hair loss drug in Asia, over finasteride. Dutasteride doesn't show more side effects, despite blocking 90% of DHT rather than 70%, and takes 4-6 months to be eliminated based on its half-life. Where are the millions of complaints there? Let me ask you this, have you thought about how many people you are essentially giving side effects, potentially permanently, by spreading scare media? You are going about it in the wrong way, and you are harming people, Mark. Edited March 31, 2021 by j1mmy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Mark2010 Posted March 31, 2021 Author Senior Member Share Posted March 31, 2021 20 minutes ago, j1mmy said: Nobody is saying that they know such a thing "doesn't" exist. Rather, it is no different than the various birth control pills. A minority of women suffer side effects, and some experience no doubt long-lasting side effects. Drugs are approved based on clinical trials, and their safety profiles. There is a reason dutasteride was dropped by Merck for the treatment of hair loss. Let me ask you this, have you thought about how many people you are essentially giving side effects, potentially permanently, by spreading scare media? You are going about it in the wrong way, and you are harming people, Mark. I don't see how Merck could have dropped dutasteride since they don't even make the drug ? The percentage of people who get permanent side effects from Finasteride is over 1% if I had known that I would never have taking it. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/mens-health/hair-loss-drug-propecia-carries-risk-losing-something-else-n731841 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member ciaus Posted March 31, 2021 Senior Member Share Posted March 31, 2021 To everyone else, if you are going to try to get the last word with this guy you are wasting your time. And giving him what he wants. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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