Topical Dutasteride Effective For Hair Loss?

[mustang]

48 minutes ago, Phab said:

So just so I understand. Theorically, topical Dutasteride would have less chance of side-effects than topical Fin because of this weight of the molecule?

 

 

This is correct

I have measured my DHT with both

Oral Dutasteride: 84% reduction

Oral Finasteride: 65% reduction

Topical Finasteride: 63% reduction

Topical Dutasteride: 15% reduction

I have also measured my scalp DHT and will doing some biopsies again 

 

[mustang]

55 minutes ago, Dr. Suhail Khokhar said:

Yes, less exposure typically entails less chances of side effects. Dutasteride is a more powerful medicine than finasteride. I've been trying to find a topical dutasteride/minoxidil solution to no avail. If anyone finds it, let me know.

Dr Mwamba (www.fueclinic.com) makes Dutasteride 0.05% with 5% minox for daily usage

It is not listed on their site I believe but you can email them for a bottle 

[Phab]

@mustang is that where you got topical dut from? what about topical fin, where did you get?

[Melvin- Admin]

2 minutes ago, mustang said:

 

This is correct

I have measured my DHT with both

Oral Dutasteride: 84% reduction

Oral Finasteride: 65% reduction

Topical Finasteride: 63% reduction

Topical Dutasteride: 15% reduction

I have also measured my scalp DHT and will doing some biopsies again 

 

Wow that’s incredible, so you had less systemic reduction with topical dut? Will Mwamba be doing any studies?

[mustang]

40 minutes ago, Dr. Suhail Khokhar said:

No, theoretically, you'll have a higher chance of side effect with topical dutasteride than topical finasteride (the increase in risk is negligible though). Getting side effects from either topical dutasteride or topical finasteride are miniscule. Remember, the rate of side effects on oral finasteride are about 5% (which is small).

You don't

Much less of it goes systemic (Dalton rule)

I have used an extremely high amount and concentration to test this (I know, foolish) and my DHT did not drop anywhere near to what it did with Topical Finasteride or oral finasteride

It's the safest drug to use if you apply a low dose and do it once a week and far superior results to anything else I tried 

[Future Hair Doc]

2 minutes ago, mustang said:

You don't

Much less of it goes systemic (Dalton rule)

I have used an extremely high amount and concentration to test this (I know, foolish) and my DHT did not drop anywhere near to what it did with Topical Finasteride or oral finasteride

It's the safest drug to use if you apply a low dose and do it once a week and far superior results to anything else I tried 

Interesting. I didn't think the molecular weight would have made much of a difference in terms of absorption/reduction in DHT....are there any studies published in peer reviewed journals showing this or is it anecdotal at this point?

Edited March 17, 2021 by Dr. Suhail Khokhar

[mustang]

Just now, Phab said:

@mustang is that where you got topical dut from? what about topical fin, where did you get?

I used to get it from Parati (Liposomal) and then changed to Trichosol from Mwamba (www.fueclinic.com) due to side effects.

No side effects with Mwamba's formula and hair is looking good, it also as vitamins and other stuff that has made my crown improve.

Whatever you do don't buy from MinoxidilMax, they are a Chinese underground lab importing into the US pretending to be an American company and it's completely unregulated, I had the worst side effects ever with their topical finasteride and lasted almost 8 months to recover.

Get the one from Parati or Mwamba 

[mustang]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Suhail Khokhar said:

Interesting. I didn't think the molecular weight would have made much of a difference in terms of absorption/reduction in DHT....are there any studies published in peer reviewed journals showing this or is it anecdotal at this point?

Only anecdotal based on my bloodwork and of others I know. I can't guarantee this

This anecdotal evidence makes sense theoretically as well 

[Future Hair Doc]

2 minutes ago, mustang said:

Only anecdotal based on my bloodwork and of others I know. I can't guarantee this

This anecdotal evidence makes sense theoretically as well 

Yeah, the molecular weight of dutasteride is about 150g/mol more than finasteride...I just don't know if that is enough to substantially lower the absorption of dutasteride to any significant extent. I definitely think there should be more studies on this.

[mustang]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Suhail Khokhar said:

Yeah, the molecular weight of dutasteride is about 150g/mol more than finasteride...I just don't know if that is enough to substantially lower the absorption of dutasteride to any significant extent. I definitely think there should be more studies on this.

"The 500-Dalton rule states that for a substance to be able to cross the skin barrier, it must have a molecular weight of fewer than 500 Daltons. Though there are certain exceptions to this rule, it is generally considered as a standard rule of thumb for cosmetic manufacturers."

Dutasteride is 528 g/mol

If it would go systemic I would have nuked my DHT as I applied 50mg (100 times the oral dose) and reduction was not even half

At 0.1% my DHT is virtually the same than without anything.

The good thing is the product remains in the scalp for a long time as the half life is 4 weeks

It truly is a wonderful find.

Now if you combine that with biotin and other vitamins the results are even better, there are several studies on this 

[caricatura]

@mustangHow do you get yours from Dr. Mwamba? @win200and I put in orders online and neither of us have even received shipping info. Would you mind posting a photo of the bottle, because I'm becoming a little suspicious.

Edited March 17, 2021 by caricatura

[Phab]

There has been talks about a topical solution from Parati and Dr. Hasson for years, check this out, a 2016 thread

 

[Future Hair Doc]

7 minutes ago, mustang said:

"The 500-Dalton rule states that for a substance to be able to cross the skin barrier, it must have a molecular weight of fewer than 500 Daltons. Though there are certain exceptions to this rule, it is generally considered as a standard rule of thumb for cosmetic manufacturers."

Dutasteride is 528 g/mol

If it would go systemic I would have nuked my DHT as I applied 50mg (100 times the oral dose) and reduction was not even half

At 0.1% my DHT is virtually the same than without anything.

The good thing is the product remains in the scalp for a long time as the half life is 4 weeks

It truly is a wonderful find.

Now if you combine that with biotin and other vitamins the results are even better, there are several studies on this 

I am thinking of creating my own topical solution using all those compounds...I will keep you guys posted.

[Rbs]

21 minutes ago, mustang said:

 

This is correct

I have measured my DHT with both

Oral Dutasteride: 84% reduction

Oral Finasteride: 65% reduction

Topical Finasteride: 63% reduction

Topical Dutasteride: 15% reduction

I have also measured my scalp DHT and will doing some biopsies again 

 

I assume lower the better right? Sorry for the noob question.

 

As @Melvin-Moderator and @Dr. Suhail Khokhar are aware, I am straing on this journey and evaluating options and doctors along the way. Dr Wesley recommended non-surgical treatments to fortify and possibly regrow hair BEFORE attempting surgery and I feel it's a great idea.

He has apparently had great success with a topical blend (Of Fina and Duta) combined with dutasteride mesotherapy. (Plus thrice weekly use of a ketoconazole 2% shampoo, and a series of platelet-rich plasma (PRP) procedures)

[Phab]

8 hours ago, mustang said:

"The 500-Dalton rule states that for a substance to be able to cross the skin barrier, it must have a molecular weight of fewer than 500 Daltons. Though there are certain exceptions to this rule, it is generally considered as a standard rule of thumb for cosmetic manufacturers."

Dutasteride is 528 g/mol

If it would go systemic I would have nuked my DHT as I applied 50mg (100 times the oral dose) and reduction was not even half

At 0.1% my DHT is virtually the same than without anything.

The good thing is the product remains in the scalp for a long time as the half life is 4 weeks

It truly is a wonderful find.

Now if you combine that with biotin and other vitamins the results are even better, there are several studies on this 

I'm interested in knowing more about the science behind this: if hair foliculos are in the deep layers of the skin where blood vessels also exist, I don't undertsand how this is not going systemic at high levels (100x the oral one)

And most importantly, if there is science behind this, how come only a couple of players are testing and producing this? How come multi-international multi-billion dollar companies like Merck itself, are not? How come there's no mainstream news about it? You have to dig in really deep in the Internet to find anything, that's very strange. These talks about topical solutions have been around for years and years.

There's a ton of money to be made but multi-billion dollar companies are just not interested? There's a prob another more rational reason.

 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Phab

[TorontoMan]

19 minutes ago, mustang said:

"The 500-Dalton rule states that for a substance to be able to cross the skin barrier, it must have a molecular weight of fewer than 500 Daltons. Though there are certain exceptions to this rule, it is generally considered as a standard rule of thumb for cosmetic manufacturers."

Dutasteride is 528 g/mol

If it would go systemic I would have nuked my DHT as I applied 50mg (100 times the oral dose) and reduction was not even half

At 0.1% my DHT is virtually the same than without anything.

The good thing is the product remains in the scalp for a long time as the half life is 4 weeks

It truly is a wonderful find.

Now if you combine that with biotin and other vitamins the results are even better, there are several studies on this 

I'm confused by mechanism of action with a topical fin/dut compound, does it not have to still stop the conversion of enzyme action to prevent dht, and if thats the case wouldtn that activity have to happen in the blood? Or is this suggesting that topical duta has a binding affinity and latches onto your receptors?

[win200]

26 minutes ago, Dr. Suhail Khokhar said:

I am thinking of creating my own topical solution using all those compounds...I will keep you guys posted.

That would be terrific. I know you'd have several eager patients here.

[Melvin- Admin]

29 minutes ago, Dr. Suhail Khokhar said:

I am thinking of creating my own topical solution using all those compounds...I will keep you guys posted.

Would be interesting to see that, you should post your journey on YouTube 

[mustang]

5 hours ago, caricatura said:

@mustangHow do you get yours from Dr. Mwamba? @win200and I put in orders online and neither of us have even received shipping info. Would you mind posting a photo of the bottle, because I'm becoming a little suspicious.

A little suspicious about what?

A first class surgeon is now going to put his reputation on the line to grab 20 euros from you. Relax. I am not defending their slow responses but I have never heard of anybody not getting a bottle, they just ship every 2 weeks and are slow with the emails because they are swamped, they are honest people and more importantly actually care about people that use this formula and check on them

Just email them again

Edited March 18, 2021 by mustang

[Phab]

Dr. Mwamba;s clinic must get thousands of emails every day about this product.

The clinic of Dr. Hasson where also sells topical Finasteride told me there's a 6 month wait to get the product. And on top of that, it's only avalable for Canadians.

This is why I raise this question: there's not many companies working on it. This seems to be a gold rush but only 1 company seems to be working on it, this company called Polichem by Almirall, from my research.

[win200]

13 hours ago, mustang said:

A little suspicious about what?

A first class surgeon is now going to put his reputation on the line to grab 20 euros from you. Relax. I am not defending their slow responses but I have never heard of anybody not getting a bottle, they just ship every 2 weeks and are slow with the emails because they are swamped, they are honest people and more importantly actually care about people that use this formula and check on them

Just email them again

Totally understood, but I've been emailing them since mid-January and haven't gotten a tracking number (and frequently don't get responses). I get that they're overwhelmed, but it seems like they're so overwhelmed that they can't effectively manage orders. I've sent over ten emails to little effect.

[Phab]

@win200so you made the payment and got no tracking number? How long has it been? If you don't wanna wait, talk to paypal, without the tracking number they can easily give you a refund.

 

[win200]

1 minute ago, Phab said:

@win200so you made the payment and got no tracking number? How long has it been? If you don't wanna wait, talk to paypal, without the tracking number they can easily give you a refund.

 

I paid on February 18th and still haven't gotten tracking info. I don't want a refund--I just want the product. It's just frustrating dealing with the chaos on their end, and it's pretty poor form to take customer payment but not ship. Feels like a lack of urgency.

[Phab]

@win200 yeah I bet that there is a lot of costumers in your situation. they should not take new orders until they can fulfill existing ones. I'm glad you spoke out here so ppl are alert

[win200]

Just now, Phab said:

@win200 yeah I bet that there is a lot of costumers in your situation. they should not take new orders until they can fulfill existing ones. I'm glad you spoke out here so ppl are alert

Yeah, I agree. I'm understanding and I'm sure they're good folks, but mismanagement like this really degrades customer trust. I wonder if Dr. Mwamba is even personally aware that this is going on within his clinic...?