Beard hair on the scalp

[Al - Moderator]

Gabreille Nelson Mukhia,

Have you seen many patients 4 or 5 years after having a large amount of body grafts? I'm asking because on myself I had my first body hair transplant about 6 years ago in 2014. The hair does grow in kinky, wiry, coarse, etc. so after the 7 month to one year evaluation it doesn't blend as well like you mention, but I've noticed that after a few growth cycles once you get into year 3, 4, or 5 it really starts to act more like head hair and it grows much softer. I can't tell the difference now between native hair and the body hair that was transplanted several years ago. The latest procedure or two is still a bit coarse and kinky, but I suspect that will soften up just like the rest in time. So since most clinics will be evaluating at the 6 month to one year time frame I wonder if they are really getting a true idea of how body hair will ultimately grow on the patients head.

 

[Gabreille Nelson Mukhia]

18 hours ago, Curious25 said:

Thankyou for your response. I appreciate that each patient needs to be evaluated on a case by case basis, and there is no 'one shoe fits all' school of thought, however I think this is relevant for all areas involved within hair restoration. 

My question was more towards identifying whether Eugenix believe replenishing the scalps donor region with beard grafts, rather than using them as fillers for the recipient zone, is an approved, and good methodology, which would allow for greater use and depletion of native scalp donor for balding recipient sites. 

In essence, enabling the patient to optimise their scalp donor to its full capacity and beyond. 

Thanks 
 

It is a viable option wherein the scalp donor can be used to its maximum limit possible. And then use the beard to replenish it. But it is not worth the effort. The grafts will not have a 100% survival rate due to the FUE scars. The results will be minimally different as even beard hair when used as fillers, will blend along with the scalp hair eventually. When very fine and sharp punches are used, it is possible to extract a large number of grafts from scalp or beard donor all the while maintaining the donor aesthetics. 

The usage of the beard donor to replenish the scalp donor can be done in various scenarios of poor scalp donor cases.

[Gabreille Nelson Mukhia]

13 hours ago, BeHappy said:

Gabreille Nelson Mukhia,

Have you seen many patients 4 or 5 years after having a large amount of body grafts? I'm asking because on myself I had my first body hair transplant about 6 years ago in 2014. The hair does grow in kinky, wiry, coarse, etc. so after the 7 month to one year evaluation it doesn't blend as well like you mention, but I've noticed that after a few growth cycles once you get into year 3, 4, or 5 it really starts to act more like head hair and it grows much softer. I can't tell the difference now between native hair and the body hair that was transplanted several years ago. The latest procedure or two is still a bit coarse and kinky, but I suspect that will soften up just like the rest in time. So since most clinics will be evaluating at the 6 month to one year time frame I wonder if they are really getting a true idea of how body hair will ultimately grow on the patients head.

 

Yes. I have seen patients with beard and body hair after a long time. Infact I know a patient who is a singer and film personality who has used beard, body (arms and legs). The hair does look good and he has maintained the length with proper styling. The beard and body hair do not have the same length as the scalp hair. He had got his surgery done almost 6 years ago.

The proper way to validate donor candidacy is to opt for test grafting. 100 to 200 grafts can be used from the proposed body donor and their growth evaluated for a year. It would provide a scientific support to the decision whether to use it or not.

[Curious25]

3 hours ago, Gabreille Nelson Mukhia said:

It is a viable option wherein the scalp donor can be used to its maximum limit possible. And then use the beard to replenish it. But it is not worth the effort. The grafts will not have a 100% survival rate due to the FUE scars. The results will be minimally different as even beard hair when used as fillers, will blend along with the scalp hair eventually. When very fine and sharp punches are used, it is possible to extract a large number of grafts from scalp or beard donor all the while maintaining the donor aesthetics. 

The usage of the beard donor to replenish the scalp donor can be done in various scenarios of poor scalp donor cases.

Thankyou very much - this is what I was looking for. Interesting to note you mentioned that the scarred donor area may impact upon growth, as this was a concern I had previously pondered. 

[Al - Moderator]

11 hours ago, Gabreille Nelson Mukhia said:

The beard and body hair do not have the same length as the scalp hair.

 

There must be a lot of variation in different people, probably depending a lot on what type of body hair a person has. My beard and chest hair that was transplanted grow faster and longer than my scalp hair. It grows several inches easily.

 

[Sean]

Pretty good back and forth in this thread.

Here is something I also found on RS in regards to different growth and sleep cycles on these hairs:

 

Edited August 23, 2020 by Sean
Error when posting

[Gabreille Nelson Mukhia]

18 hours ago, Curious25 said:

Thankyou very much - this is what I was looking for. Interesting to note you mentioned that the scarred donor area may impact upon growth, as this was a concern I had previously pondered. 

It is usually the case with scar tissues. FUE scars prove to be more fertile for growth when compared to FUT scars (burn scars, trauma scars, dermatological scars). Scars replace the lost tissue and hence are usually thicker. Even when grafts are transplanted in the FUT scars, they are planted on the sides in a dense manner and light on the center. The center of the scars are usually thicker than the sides. And then there are scars that might not support any growth at all.

[Gabreille Nelson Mukhia]

10 hours ago, BeHappy said:

 

There must be a lot of variation in different people, probably depending a lot on what type of body hair a person has. My beard and chest hair that was transplanted grow faster and longer than my scalp hair. It grows several inches easily.

 

Exceptional. In majority of the cases the beard hair do not have the same speed of growth or the same lenth capacity. I'm hapoy for you.

[Gabreille Nelson Mukhia]

5 hours ago, Sean said:

Pretty good back and forth in this thread.

Here is something I also found on RS in regards to different growth and sleep cycles on these hairs:

 

That is true. Infact, sometimes the telogen phase for body hair lasts even longer. Which is why it is the last resort. Even for someone who has an exceptionally dense hair.

[Pangloss]

On 8/24/2020 at 6:39 AM, Gabreille Nelson Mukhia said:

That is true. Infact, sometimes the telogen phase for body hair lasts even longer. Which is why it is the last resort. Even for someone who has an exceptionally dense hair.

Well, I sure can't see that short anagen and long telogen phase on my chest and stomach hair. I'm constantly clipping them and if I didn't they'd easily grow 4 inches or longer.

[Pangloss]

On 8/23/2020 at 8:24 AM, Gabreille Nelson Mukhia said:

Yes. I have seen patients with beard and body hair after a long time. Infact I know a patient who is a singer and film personality who has used beard, body (arms and legs). The hair does look good and he has maintained the length with proper styling. The beard and body hair do not have the same length as the scalp hair. He had got his surgery done almost 6 years ago.

But didn't you just say in an earlier post that "The hair from the thighs, arms, etc have impossible chances of survival on the scalp."

How do you explain this singer's good growth with his arm and leg hair?

Edited September 5, 2020 by Pangloss

[Pangloss]

Because I've been stranded since early in the year in a small Asian country, I consulted with the only HT doctor in town. He told me that he gets 100% growth, even from body hair. He said he has done 50 BHT cases. I find this hard to believe since no natives in this country have upper body hair, they're all smooth skinned.

I'm actually considering him. This is the desperation I've been driven to because the border is closed, quarantines if you can manage to travel anywhere, lack of flights and all the rest of this catastrophic overreaction to a microbe that 99.8% of people survive easily and it is overwhelmingly only the old and feeble with multiple chronic comorbidities that actually die from it.

Sorry, I don't mean to and don't want to start a big debate, I'm just so frustrated. I'm getting old, I had plans to fix my hair and I'm losing a year out of my life for this bs.

 

[Britanium]

No way does anybody get a guaranteed 100% growth, not even from the best Ht Drs in the world. BHT has even less chance of growth. Beard hair being the best. That is a small amount of cases for a Dr doing just 50 BHT.

I understand where your coming from though, I have been waiting to get another Ht since lockdown. 
For me I have just concentrated with working and saving up extra money for it. 
Please think hard before doing anything out of desperation, you could easily regret it later. 

[Al - Moderator]

1 hour ago, Pangloss said:

Well, I sure can't see that short anagen and long telogen phase on my chest and stomach hair. I'm constantly clipping them and if I didn't they'd easily grow 4 inches or longer.

Yep. Me too. I've trimmed my chest hair for years because it grows too long.

 

[Pangloss]

1 hour ago, JohnAC71 said:

No way does anybody get a guaranteed 100% growth, not even from the best Ht Drs in the world. BHT has even less chance of growth. Beard hair being the best. That is a small amount of cases for a Dr doing just 50 BHT.

I understand where your coming from though, I have been waiting to get another Ht since lockdown. 
For me I have just concentrated with working and saving up extra money for it. 
Please think hard before doing anything out of desperation, you could easily regret it later. 

Yes, I knew when he said he gets 100% growth that he was lying, because no doctor gets 100%. And to suggest it was true also of Body Hair is absurd. Thanks for the warning about doing something I might regret. Another problem with this dr is I can find no info on him, no reviews on the internet, so I have absolutely no way to judge his competence.

But this interruption in my plans (and now I'm hearing that most countries have already decided to remain closed through the rest of 2020, as if this were being centrally planned and dictated to them) does have me thinking that maybe I should just forget about getting another HT entirely.

[Curious25]

4 hours ago, JohnAC71 said:

No way does anybody get a guaranteed 100% growth, not even from the best Ht Drs in the world. BHT has even less chance of growth. Beard hair being the best. That is a small amount of cases for a Dr doing just 50 BHT.

I understand where your coming from though, I have been waiting to get another Ht since lockdown. 
For me I have just concentrated with working and saving up extra money for it. 
Please think hard before doing anything out of desperation, you could easily regret it later. 

I will reiterate the above comments. It's a frustrating situation we all find ourselves in, and has been a year that not one of us could have imagined. However I think if you take a step back and few deep breaths - flip this period of time on its back, and you can use it to your advantage. The extra months can allow for you to research more, have more online consultations, save more - and project you into a better position than you would have been earlier in the year, with more financial means and a better knowledge and understanding of your case and doctors suited for you. 

Hang in there and don't make any rash decisions. 

[Gabreille Nelson Mukhia]

On 9/5/2020 at 10:17 PM, Pangloss said:

Well, I sure can't see that short anagen and long telogen phase on my chest and stomach hair. I'm constantly clipping them and if I didn't they'd easily grow 4 inches or longer.

Well we can't generalise it for everyone. The growth rate of body, scalp and beard hair are different in each individual. 

[Gabreille Nelson Mukhia]

On 9/5/2020 at 10:19 PM, Pangloss said:

But didn't you just say in an earlier post that "The hair from the thighs, arms, etc have impossible chances of survival on the scalp."

How do you explain this singer's good growth with his arm and leg hair?

Because he has majority of the scalp and beard hair. The hair from the body were used discreetly and lesser in amount. Thats the whole issue. The planning of the density anf the strategic positioning of the grafts facilitate for very little difference even when the body hair are stagnant.

[Gatsby]

Gabreille I have read of the term 'donor dominance.' In your experience with patients using beard hair, have you at Eugenix found this to be true, where the characteristics of the donor (beard) hair take on the characteristics of the recipient (scalp) hair?

[Gabreille Nelson Mukhia]

The beard hair might evolve with a little significance with regards to taking on the recipient characterstics. Even in patients who have had a beard donor used (after a significant amount of time) exhibit coarse calibre. When a person runs his hands through his hair, the difference in the scalp and beard hair can be felt. 

[mustang]

I have had 1.500 BHT grafts implanted in my zone 3

All survived, can't tell the difference. Well, 95% survived (I did a proscope test on a specific marked area)

 

[Britanium]

5 minutes ago, mustang said:

I have had 1.500 BHT grafts implanted in my zone 3

All survived, can't tell the difference. Well, 95% survived (I did a proscope test on a specific marked area)

 

This is amazing! BHT has come a long way since first being used. 

[LonelyGraft]

9 hours ago, mustang said:

I have had 1.500 BHT grafts implanted in my zone 3

All survived, can't tell the difference. Well, 95% survived (I did a proscope test on a specific marked area)

 

Which doctor?

[Gabreille Nelson Mukhia]

11 hours ago, mustang said:

I have had 1.500 BHT grafts implanted in my zone 3

All survived, can't tell the difference. Well, 95% survived (I did a proscope test on a specific marked area)

 

Amazing. Where were the donor grafts taken from? Would love to see some pictures also. Do you have any before, immediate and after pictures of the area where the body hair were transplanted?