Microneedling *May 2019* Progress

[CosmoKramer]

6 hours ago, BeHappy said:

This thread has been very interesting. Thanks for the continued updates. I think I will start trying micro needling in certain areas.

You’re welcome, and thanks 👍🏻

Be sure to take “baseline” before photos and follow up progress photos. 👍🏻

[Min12]

Liking the temple peak progress! Did you notice major results at the 2 month mark? 

[CosmoKramer]

10 hours ago, Min12 said:

Liking the temple peak progress! Did you notice major results at the 2 month mark? 

Thanks!

Honestly it’s a bit trick to remember but I think by month 3 is when it was pretty visible as I was very consistent with my routine.

[CosmoKramer]

Update:

So, as in my previous post where I mentioned that my A6 pen stopped working after about a year of use, I did recently purchase another set and have re started microneedling but less frequently than last Fall, as I also incorporated using an electric scalp massager to see if it would help any.

My takeaway...

A few months ago I switched from Foam Minox to the liquid, and suffered a daily shed of about 40-50 hairs for a few weeks, and not being consistent with microneedling due to broken pen. I  still had some good coverage from my microneedling results in my crown but it was slightly thinner due to the shed...I switched back to Minox foam and .recently the past few weeks I started doing nightly scalp massages with the electric massager on damp scalp for about 20 minutes then applied Minox foam after and only once a day. From this I did experience even more hairs shed and these seemed to be the vellus hairs in my crown about 100-150 shed each day which was scary but I didn’t let it get to me as I saw it as a sign of possibly better new hairs growing from the follicles.

So now my routine is microneedling my scalp with my new A6 pen 1-2 nights a week (instead of previously 3-4), daily scalp massage for 20 min on damp hair, Minox foam about 10 minutes after all once daily and the massive shedding has stopped about 1 week ago from the scalp massages, now I shed about 15-25 hairs daily.

Below are photos from yesterday with slightly damp hair after I cut it myself to an attempted fade, given the large amount of hairs I shed from switching Minox types then incorporating scalp massager I’m pretty happy with how it looks now and that’s the big shedding has stopped and looking forward to newer growth. Oh, and I also noticed that a bunch of terminal hairs in my crown from microneedling got even stronger and thicker possibly due to better blood supply and that I have been taking a Magnesium/Zinc/Copper daily suppliment the past few months as well, and that the hairs grown from microneedling in my temple triangle are still there.

PS. My self haircut fade the donor area and sides are at 0-.5 and I left the top at about 1.5 and center hairline hair slightly longer.

[Rolandas]

I remember when I only switched between Minoxidil foam brands I had an extra shedding for a good few weeks as well. I guess whatever new is introduced to the "game" it encourages hair to go to sleep 💤

What kind of scalp massages are you doing? Is it from Rob English's method? I've been doing those for 20 min morning and 20 min evening for 6 months and definitely seen great improvement, however it's an extreme hard work and I never managed to get back to it.

[CosmoKramer]

7 minutes ago, Rolandas said:

I remember when I only switched between Minoxidil foam brands I had an extra shedding for a good few weeks as well. I guess whatever new is introduced to the "game" it encourages hair to go to sleep 💤

What kind of scalp massages are you doing? Is it from Rob English's method? I've been doing those for 20 min morning and 20 min evening for 6 months and definitely seen great improvement, however it's an extreme hard work and I never managed to get back to it.

Yeah, I think switching between Minox solutions and brands could force sheds as a sort of reset.

Oh nice! No I’m not familiar with that person you mentioned, I purchased this one a couple months ago and now been using it nightly consistently for almost 2 weeks now, it’s much easier and more efficient in my opinion. Link below if you want to have a look.

https://www.amazon.com/LATME-Electric-Massager-Portable-White-Grey/dp/B07MKNK6BD/ref=sxin_14?ascsubtag=amzn1.osa.7310351f-f3d6-4512-b3a9-95530870b0b2.ATVPDKIKX0DER.en_US&creativeASIN=B07MKNK6BD&cv_ct_cx=electric+scalp+massager&cv_ct_id=amzn1.osa.7310351f-f3d6-4512-b3a9-95530870b0b2.ATVPDKIKX0DER.en_US&cv_ct_pg=search&cv_ct_wn=osp-single-source&dchild=1&keywords=electric+scalp+massager&linkCode=oas&pd_rd_i=B07MKNK6BD&pd_rd_r=9e1ea46a-bdff-4257-b541-b1233d5a8c8c&pd_rd_w=vY33G&pd_rd_wg=rzpk7&pf_rd_p=b17a109f-3b60-4e86-baa1-cf9901500c11&pf_rd_r=Z4P72A5BXKRWWCE1H7TN&qid=1591950217&sprefix=electric+sca&sr=1-1-58695269-0102-48b5-9948-f6c6783c4516&tag=scrippsonsite-20

[Rolandas]

I know this once. Some people do the same massages now with this one and they report greater improvement.
You can check out perfecthairhealth website for his research and theory on hair loss. I don't think it's one solution for everyone like it's with fin/min etc. but worth having in your arsenal especially if you're already doing some massages.
He has paid membership which I wouldn't bother as he gives you for free 40 min video overview (explaining almost everything in there) and another video with scalp massage demonstration. I can't find now where, but I think he send you after signing to his email list. Also a lot of info can be found on his free articles and especially comments where people are discussing things. Definitely recommend to check it out.

[Guy73]

Wow, looks great! I was always afraid of the shedding if I started that. I have been doing my igrow laser about 4 rears now 5 days a week along rogaine and essential oils. So afraid to give this routine up. But you really made improvements, nice to see. 👍

[CosmoKramer]

On 6/12/2020 at 4:44 AM, Rolandas said:

I know this once. Some people do the same massages now with this one and they report greater improvement.
You can check out perfecthairhealth website for his research and theory on hair loss. I don't think it's one solution for everyone like it's with fin/min etc. but worth having in your arsenal especially if you're already doing some massages.
He has paid membership which I wouldn't bother as he gives you for free 40 min video overview (explaining almost everything in there) and another video with scalp massage demonstration. I can't find now where, but I think he send you after signing to his email list. Also a lot of info can be found on his free articles and especially comments where people are discussing things. Definitely recommend to check it out.

Will check it out, thx!

[CosmoKramer]

On 6/12/2020 at 7:02 AM, Guy73 said:

Wow, looks great! I was always afraid of the shedding if I started that. I have been doing my igrow laser about 4 rears now 5 days a week along rogaine and essential oils. So afraid to give this routine up. But you really made improvements, nice to see. 👍

Thanks man! Yeah, the shedding a few months ago from when I switched from minox foam to the liquid was scary (shed around 150 hairs a day), and switching back now to foam along with nightly scalp massages with the devise had me also shedding 100-150 hairs each day for almost 2 weeks, but thankfully it has stopped and now I shed way less so I’m taking it as a sign that new growth and progress is coming soon.

if your routine works for you then stick to it! 

what does your essential oil mix consist of and how do you use it?

By the way, took a look at your thread and your progress is amazing!

[CosmoKramer]

Just saw this dudes 4.5 months amazing Microneedling & Meds progress thought I’d share the link here on my thread...

 

[Rolandas]

4 hours ago, CosmoKramer said:

Just saw this dudes 4.5 months amazing Microneedling & Meds progress thought I’d share the link here on my thread...

 

Men that's just incredible result! It proves the point further that micro-needling can be a very effective way to "rejuvenate" hair and give them very good boost.
I'm keep thinking whether or not I should do something more than just Finasteride. Since dermarolling with minoxidil didn't do as much as I would expect I stopped it and doesn't look like I lost ground (almost 7 months off from both), perhaps derma pen would give it a greater chance for my mid-scalp and crown?
Also can't find any info on:
- 12 pin cartridge vs 36 pin cartridge
- Dr. Pen A6 vs Dr. Pen A7. Seems like the biggest difference is cordless vs cord and 8000 RMP vs 18000 RMP. Who knows if 18 000 rmp is actually better?

Edited June 25, 2020 by Rolandas

[CosmoKramer]

10 hours ago, Rolandas said:

Men that's just incredible result! It proves the point further that micro-needling can be a very effective way to "rejuvenate" hair and give them very good boost.
I'm keep thinking whether or not I should do something more than just Finasteride. Since dermarolling with minoxidil didn't do as much as I would expect I stopped it and doesn't look like I lost ground (almost 7 months off from both), perhaps derma pen would give it a greater chance for my mid-scalp and crown?
Also can't find any info on:
- 12 pin cartridge vs 36 pin cartridge
- Dr. Pen A6 vs Dr. Pen A7. Seems like the biggest difference is cordless vs cord and 8000 RMP vs 18000 RMP. Who knows if 18 000 rmp is actually better?

Yup!

Well, personally I wouldn’t use anything more than the 12-needle cartridge, since I do my whole scalp 12 does just fine. IMHO the A6 is better as it’s both cordless and corded.

[Rolandas]

6 hours ago, CosmoKramer said:

Yup!

Well, personally I wouldn’t use anything more than the 12-needle cartridge, since I do my whole scalp 12 does just fine. IMHO the A6 is better as it’s both cordless and corded.

Yes it's definitely better for convenience, but sometimes I don't care about convenience if it means better results? What do you think a bout 18 000 RMP? More than twice faster. Also doesn't it mean with 36 pins you can cover much of your scalp as they're tightly packed?

[Mycroft]

2 hours ago, Rolandas said:

Yes it's definitely better for convenience, but sometimes I don't care about convenience if it means better results? What do you think a bout 18 000 RMP? More than twice faster. Also doesn't it mean with 36 pins you can cover much of your scalp as they're tightly packed?

The extra RPM basically just means the needles punch your scalp more rapidly, so in theory the higher the RPM the more micro wounds you would make dragging the pen across your scalp in a line one time. I have the A7 and I cannot say whether this has had any tangible improvement on my results, but it's hard to say.

I have tried the higher pin counts. Your logic is more or less correct but there are a couple of downsides to consider.

 

1. You will have to increase the depth of the needling to compensate for the fact that the distribution of force is wider. In other words, 12 pins at 2 mm depth is probably going deeper than 36 pins at 2 mm because of distribution of force being spread out. You'd maybe want to up the depth to 2.5 to compensate, etc.

2. I've found that the higher pin counts are more likely to snag in my hair and this makes the whole process extremely frustrating. The only way around this is to do the lift and press approach rather than dragging the pen across the scalp.

 

Right now I'm experimenting with using a 12 pin to do rows across my scalp and then going back into some of the weakest areas and doing a lift and press with higher pin count to see if I can boost my results.

[CosmoKramer]

4 hours ago, Rolandas said:

Yes it's definitely better for convenience, but sometimes I don't care about convenience if it means better results? What do you think a bout 18 000 RMP? More than twice faster. Also doesn't it mean with 36 pins you can cover much of your scalp as they're tightly packed?

@Mycroft’s reply 👆is exactly my thinking as well. With 36-needle I would assume you could potentially damage existing hairs and hair follicles by way of them being snagged, pulled, cut, shocked...I haven’t tried anything other than 12, but occasionally even with 12 I do see I’ve cut a few hairs here and there.

Also, the Follica trials noted that there’s are sweet spot to needle separation and density and that if there are too many in close proximity that the results weren’t as good.

[Rolandas]

Some great points gents.

I never looked into follica's trials but I know they're using very similar device and as such would be more customized towards hair loss as opposed to Dr. Pen and others that being generally used for general skin.

My only issue with derma pens/stamps was that because of the angle it should cut your hair more often that regular derma roller as it has a rolling mechanism, thus most likely will put your hair flat. Also needles are quite spaced out, so it shouldn't cut as much as I believe you could do with Dermapen as you can potentially make hundreds more holes, thus higher chance of cutting the hair.

[Mycroft]

I'd say you're more likely to tangle and yank hair out with a roller than with a pen. The roller is also going to cause more damage to your scalp (in a bad way) than the pen. Sure, you may clip some hairs when you're using the pen, but you're not doing any damage to the follicles with the needle depth recommended for this sort of thing so any clipped hair will just keep growing just like after a haircut.

[Rolandas]

14 minutes ago, Mycroft said:

I'd say you're more likely to tangle and yank hair out with a roller than with a pen. The roller is also going to cause more damage to your scalp (in a bad way) than the pen. Sure, you may clip some hairs when you're using the pen, but you're not doing any damage to the follicles with the needle depth recommended for this sort of thing so any clipped hair will just keep growing just like after a haircut.

Doesn't sound appealing having a haircut every week  But nevertheless thanks for your insight! I'm still thinking whether or not to jump on this bandwagon

[CosmoKramer]

Update: 

So, it’s been about 2 months since I switched up my routine (1-2x a week microneedling/nightly scalp massage with electric massager/Minox Foam 1x nighly), thought I’d give an update on my progress. 
 

Ive come to believe that daily scalp massages truly help keep the scalp healthy, through better blood flow and circulation, bringing oxygenated blood to the follicles to help keep DHT at bay naturally, to help re invigorate hairs in the process of miniaturization, and keep dandruff flakes off the scalp from clogging follicles.

The progress I lost A few months ago in my crown due to seasonal shedding (loosing about 50-109 hairs per day,m) and not doing microneedling as frequently as I did last year,  did make my crown much more noticeable....BUT in these last 2 months, I feel I’ve regained the progress and I do attribute that more so to the scalp massages. I’m really happy with the progress and will continue this routine.

Below photos:

1st is top-down Crown view with damp hair after a shower, I’m very bright harsh white led lit bathroom.

2nd is a bit closer.

3rd is just a selfie photo on the subway from the front, also bright harsh lighting.

 

 

 

[Rolandas]

I feel like there's a lot of hairs that just sprouted and growing out. Nevertheless looks good! How are your Temporal peaks?

[CosmoKramer]

3 hours ago, Rolandas said:

I feel like there's a lot of hairs that just sprouted and growing out. Nevertheless looks good! How are your Temporal peaks?

Yes, I noticed lots of stubbly new hairs growing and they feel and look as if they are getting to be more terminal than vellus, so I’m happy with that and just 2 months being able to regain some progress after a bad few months of shedding, I’m encouraged and happy.

My temporal peaks are still there and good, since I had a fade haircut and gave white/grey hairs on my sides the front photo doesn’t show them well but I found an older photo from a few years ago and it’s definitely a big improvement.

[CosmoKramer]

4 hours ago, Rolandas said:

I feel like there's a lot of hairs that just sprouted and growing out. Nevertheless looks good! How are your Temporal peaks?

This is what my hair looked like longer back this past April before I cut it short...don’t mind the crazy device, was testing out a relatives device for skin, to see if it helped with my forehead wrinkles lol.

[Rolandas]

Haha this looked like a first prototype of laser comb

Keep us posted man, I'm keen to see more improvement!