Are these typical results?

[Mike03980]

I had a 1500 graft FUT procedure 18 months ago with a very highly reviewed surgeon that was recommended by this site. The surgery went very well, the staff was phenomenal and in about 6 months I started seeing growth.

 

Overall I am ok with results I guess but it's not quite what I expected. I am very self-conscious about a very thin patch right in the middle of my hairline. For one, it looks like a bald spot and I still have to comb-over hair from left to right to help cover it. Two, since there aren't enough small transplanted hairs in the front of this area for decent coverage, you can see sparse 2-4 hair grafts that to me look obviously darker at the base which gives them a "club" look. Bottom line, I wear more hats now than ever.

 

Looking at my before and after pictures, does it look like I had unrealistic expectations? I never expected a dense-packed teenager's hairline but I was hoping to at least get away from having to comb over for coverage. The surgeon recommended 1200-1500 grafts after my consultation and I went with the high end of the recommendation.

 

I haven't gone in for my 1 year followup yet. Is it possible to fix a small patch like this if I'm not happy with it? The surgeon and his staff have been very courteous and seemed genuinely caring so far and I'm optimistic that something can be done if I bring up valid concerns.

[Ernie]

This is definitely a sub-par result. Have you been in touch with the clinic? If so, what have they said?

[hsrp10]

Agree with the comments above, also if you have post op pics that will help us make the definitive statement of a possible failed procedure, and let us see how much coverage those grafts were placed in.

If you went with a recommended surgeon and followed the post op instructions then you should expect decent solid results at this stage.

 

Well try to help you get this situation solved for the better.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Mike,

 

Thank you for sharing your photos and concerns with us. At face value, I do agree that this is far less than optimal. In fact, the "after" pictures (assuming they are the last 3 on the right) look like you have less hair than the "before" picture (assuming it's the first one on the left). Have you spoken to your surgeon about this? If so, what did he/she say?

 

I'd also like to know more about your case. How old are you? What's your family history of hair loss? Are you on Propecia, rogaine or any non-surgical treatments?

 

I know people don't typically like when we mention this, but we have to consider the possibility that you've lost a lot of additional natural hair that may have been on its way out anyway. I know in my case, my first hair transplant was more about "replacing natural hair with transplanted hair". It's not that we purposely removed natural hair or anything, but a lot of the miniaturizing hairs on its way out were permanently shocked and never grew back. And the ones that did, well they eventually disappeared too, leaving me with less hair than I started with. But, after 4 hair transplants and 9600 grafts, I'm very satisfied with my hair.

 

Now I don't know for sure what happened, but I do think you need to have a discussion with your surgeon and send him/her your pictures. Please let us know how you make out with your doctor.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[chrisdav]

I definitely would have expected more Mike.

[Mike03980]

Thank you for all the feedback, guys.

 

I deliberately left out the surgeon's name because I think it would be unfair to post a negative review without at least giving him the opportunity to see the results in person and hearing what he proposes for a resolution. I will update after I meet with him.

 

For now, I made this post to get your help articulating my concerns for when I do meet with my surgeon. Can you elaborate more on what appears to be subpar with the results and how it could be repaired please? For months I was just unhappy with that thin patch because you can see a lot of scalp and 2-3 hair grafts through it. The temple hairs also seemed to be growing outwards.

 

Is it common for a clinic to touchup a procedure or even issue a refund if a resolution cannot be reached.

 

My daily maintenance regimen includes Propecia and Rogaine along with Nizoral shampoo twice a week. I have been on Propecia for years before I got the transplant and it significantly slowed down my hair loss.

 

As to my post-op care, I was very careful to follow the given instructions and avoided alcohol for weeks before and after procedure. I even opted to work from home for two weeks post procedure to avoid the stress of hats and the Sun. I posted another picture, this one should be the day after I believe. Does the lack of redness in that thin area indicate that few hairs were transplanted there which is why it looks sparse now?

 

Thanks again.

 

Edit: Forgot to answer question about my family history and age. I'm 39. My hair started thinning around 25 or so. I got on Propecia and Rogaine about 8 years ago which slowed the loss down significantly. The primary reason I still opted for the transplant even though I had decent coverage for my age was to help fill out my hairline some particularly towards the center. My dad went bald very early, I would say he looked like a Norwood 4/4A before hitting 30 and a 6 by 40. My mom's side of family don't lose their hair. Her dad passed away at 75 with a full head of hair.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Mike03980

[Jls008]

You would be doing a service by providing some information about the identity of this physician. Can you at least tell us the state he is in so some of the more experienced users can figure it out and be warned?

[JamaicanFUE]

I would appreciate if the name of the doctor was mentioned as well, infact his identity would allow him to resolve this issue and improve his care in restoring future clients to the best of his ability

[hsrp10]

I'm having a hard time finding 1500 grafts in the post-op pic, unless your native hair is covering it.

Also there are some sparse areas as well.

 

My procedure with Dr. Konior in 2013 I had a little bit more than 1,500 grafts, and the immediate post-op pics and 8 months result wet (but on Fin for several months) are posted.

I'm just posting this as I don't believe you got 1,500 grafts unless they are in areas of the picture not visible.

Edited October 25, 2016 by hsrp10

[Mick50]

You would be doing a service by providing some information about the identity of this physician. Can you at least tell us the state he is in so some of the more experienced users can figure it out and be warned?

 

The OP has only read stated he will disclose the name of the Doctor when he has been in contact with him, naturally he wants to try and get the best outcome for himself he may even decide he doesn't want to the name the Doctor if the Doc comes up with a solution to solve the problem ,that maybe a refund partial or full, or a free touch up ,sometimes surprises me why people expect a poster to name the doctor before speaking to him/her, of course if the Doctors response is not up to scratch

that's a different story. The main problem I would have with this result is that it seems the possibility of shock -loss wasn't explained to the patient.

[Spanker]

Not that this will add anything, but it looks like a sub par result. I don't know that you had poor growth, you may have just hat too small a procedure. Not sure how many went into your temple points. 1500 grafts is not a lot, and when you add temple points with that many grafts, then it really isn't a lot.

 

I agree that you should give the doc a shot and see what he says.

[Mike03980]

I'm meeting with my doctor tomorrow to see what he thinks. Any suggestions on how you would handle it? Is simply stating that I'm not happy with final result enough to get the ball rolling on some kind of fix?

[hsrp10]

1) ask them if 1,500 grafts were really transplanted, and if so how many actually they think grew

2) then ask them for a refund or free second procedure (if you you trust them to do it) as the results are subpar as confirmed by the community

3) you should name them here so as to help other patients

 

Good luck

Edited October 31, 2016 by hsrp10

[milo12]

I had a 1500 graft FUT procedure 18 months ago with a very highly reviewed surgeon that was recommended by this site.

 

Overall I am ok with results I guess but it's not quite what I expected. I am very self-conscious about a very thin patch right in the middle of my hairline. For one, it looks like a bald spot and I still have to comb-over hair from left to right to help cover it.

 

.

 

Well that is awfully strange. You would expect after 18 months to see more density. Did you contact your doctor about this? What did he say if you did? If I were in your shoes I would talk to him about it first. No sense in worrying about it if you do not talk to him about it and see what he says.

 

Could you tell us how many grafts per centimeter you got? Perhaps he packed in more than he could chew.

 

Well this also proves that no matter how good a surgeon is hair density is never guaranteed. This is the mystery of hair restoration. It is never an exact science.

 

I do hope you resolve this situation. I want to wish you a lot of luck.

[Zim]

I hope you can reach some solution with the surgeon - really not good enough. Echo the sentiments of other users that you please identify the surgeon in question after you have met with him and discussed your concerns, as it is in the best interests of the community.

[Mike03980]

OP Update

 

I met with my surgeon a couple of weeks ago. I think it went pretty well.

 

I had my "case" all laid out with before and after pictures to help explain my concerns but didn't even need to go over any of that with him. In less than 5 minutes he looked at my hair, acknowledged there were low density spots, apologized and offered a no charge touch up to help fix.

 

His surgery assistant was also there for the followup and he was great. It was obvious he has a lot of experience and I felt good that he will be there for the touch-up FUE procedure. He asked me to show him where my areas of concern were.

 

My main goal now is to ensure I communicate my concerns/expectations clearly pre-procedure so I don't end up waiting another 18 months to see final results that fall short of what I would consider reasonable expectations. This is where I need your help please.

 

1. Do my current results look unnatural? Sometimes the transplanted hairs look obvious to me because they have a thicker shaft than the surrounding hairs. Also the lower density areas show some of the 2-3 hair grafts in the back and those look unnatural to me in the temple and center hairline area. This should be fixed if more individual hairs were added, right?

 

2. I took three pictures of my hairline and marked up areas I am not happy with. Should this be enough to give me reasonably good final results once the tough-up is done? I'm in my late 30s and I don't expect a densely packed hairline but I also would like to stop wearing hats everywhere I go because I'm more self-conscious now about my hairline than ever before.

 

3. I was OK with doing the touch-up under local anesthesia. That should be fine, right?

 

Thanks again. Happy Thanksgiving!

[MrGio-WHTCClinic]

OP Update

 

I met with my surgeon a couple of weeks ago. I think it went pretty well.

 

I had my "case" all laid out with before and after pictures to help explain my concerns but didn't even need to go over any of that with him. In less than 5 minutes he looked at my hair, acknowledged there were low density spots, apologized and offered a no charge touch up to help fix.

 

His surgery assistant was also there for the followup and he was great. It was obvious he has a lot of experience and I felt good that he will be there for the touch-up FUE procedure. He asked me to show him where my areas of concern were.

 

My main goal now is to ensure I communicate my concerns/expectations clearly pre-procedure so I don't end up waiting another 18 months to see final results that fall short of what I would consider reasonable expectations. This is where I need your help please.

 

1. Do my current results look unnatural? Sometimes the transplanted hairs look obvious to me because they have a thicker shaft than the surrounding hairs. Also the lower density areas show some of the 2-3 hair grafts in the back and those look unnatural to me in the temple and center hairline area. This should be fixed if more individual hairs were added, right?

 

2. I took three pictures of my hairline and marked up areas I am not happy with. Should this be enough to give me reasonably good final results once the tough-up is done? I'm in my late 30s and I don't expect a densely packed hairline but I also would like to stop wearing hats everywhere I go because I'm more self-conscious now about my hairline than ever before.

 

3. I was OK with doing the touch-up under local anesthesia. That should be fine, right?

 

Thanks again. Happy Thanksgiving!

 

The temples appear to have hair growth at unnatural-looking angles. You have a couple of options to create an improved aesthetic appearance.

 

The frontal hairline may need a touch-up as it appears that the difference in caliber of the non-transplanted and transplanted hair is obvious. The touch-up, if you choose to do so , should be accomplished with very fine grafts and conservative hair density to add more coverage and hide the skin of the scalp.

 

FUE may be a better option to manage your donor resources for the corrective procedure, but you should go to a hairline specialist to avoid unnecessary scarring.

[hsrp10]

First of all I'm glad you got some positive reaction from them and admittance of subpar work on their part and also the offer to fix it.

 

It seems quite sparse and the hair angles especially hairline and temples look "pluggy" and unnatural as mentioned by Mr Gio. Especially the way they come out of the scalp.

If I were you I would try to get a refund and go elsewhere for the second surgery, you only have limited number of lifetime donor grafts.

 

As for question #2, No try to address the entire front hairline I think you're trying to go too light on the coverage area. If you have the budget to do it then no sense in skipping areas of the hairline. You can go lighter in the temple corners.

 

3#, Most HT's are done under local anesthesia so that should be ok.

Also we would love to know you did the surgery but I will leave that to your discretion.

[densedream]

Anybody else think that this does a major disservice to the impartiality of this site? If you're gonna post results, I think the doctor should have to be named. Not just keep it a secret because you want to hedge your results against another procedure or refund in case the doctor gets vindictive.

[Mike03980]

I think the doctor should have to be named

 

I know this has not been a popular answer but I am sticking with my guns on this one; I don’t think it’s fair to post the surgeon’s name until he’s had the chance to address my concerns and the issue has been resolved.

 

I didn’t just walk into a discount hairPlugsRUs store to get the procedure done, this surgeon has been in business for decades and his reputation is stellar. I have no reason to believe that he’s cranking out this type of work all day and just sweeping it under the rug.

 

The thing with trashing someone’s business online is not just that you’re messing with their livelihood, it’s that once something is posted online, it is there forever. Especially in this field where just about every single one of us starts the decision-making process by looking up the surgeon’s name online. So even if this guy goes above and beyond to make me happy, and I honestly believe that he will, he would continue to pay the price by what could have been his one in a thousand bad procedures.

 

I promise to post before and final after pictures if the rework is done with the same surgeon.

 

Rant over! I do have more questions please. I’m trying to educate myself more on the details of what constitutes a good procedure. I came across some information on hair density (FU/cm^2) in a white paper by Dr. Shapiro and that raised a few questions:

 

1. So if I had a 1500 graft FUT to cover a 75 cm^2 area, I can assume that my density would be 20 FU/cm^2, right? Assuming uniform distribution of course.

 

 

2. But, each FU could be 1-4 hairs so I could have more than 20 hairs in a cm^2, right?

 

3. Does 20 FU/cm^2 mean 20 small incisions in 1 cm^2? Seems like that would require a lot of precision to place.

 

4. Can you estimate my hair density by looking at my final result pictures? In the frontal area.

 

5. I’m trying to get a better idea for how the 1500 FUs could have been distributed on my head and I superimposed a 1 cm^2 grid to scale on top of my post-op picture. Is this a valid way to estimate density? My grafts were placed mostly here and some along the temporal lines and the temples.

 

Thanks again guys.

[Zim]

Anybody else think that this does a major disservice to the impartiality of this site? If you're gonna post results, I think the doctor should have to be named. Not just keep it a secret because you want to hedge your results against another procedure or refund in case the doctor gets vindictive.

 

Agree. Happens all too often unfortunately.

 

I don't see how its "trashing" a surgeon to post their name along with their results .I thought it was one of the main reasons for this community, for us as customers to stick together in what can be a pretty risky industry. Trashing a surgeon would be not posting pics but attacking them anyway. They should be held accountable for their work. Now we have a recommended surgeon doing botch jobs like this and we'll never know who it is. I feel sorry for whoever the next victim may be.

[Mike03980]

OP Update - Final Resolution

 

As promised, I am updating you on how my case was finally resolved. I met with Dr. Edmond Griffin again yesterday to discuss some of the areas I was not happy with. We had differing opinions on how my results looked. I left with a 100% refund. His staff was as always exceptionally respectful and courteous.

 

Thank you for helping me get this resolved. In no small part, I attribute this community and your detailed feedback for helping me achieve this result.

 

Now it's time to start researching another surgeon.

[hsrp10]

OP Update - Final Resolution

 

I left with a 100% refund.

 

That is outstanding news and what really makes this site the best hair restoration forum out there :cool:

As HT veterans the community supports people in getting the best results and best possible outcome.

 

You must be pumped.

Good luck with your research

[Jeff Hamm]

Hi Mike03980! This is Jeff and I am a Technician serving as a representative for Dr. Griffin. We are sincerely sorry we didn't exceed your expectations with your HT surgery. We do our very best for every patient and try to treat each patient as though a member of "our family". Ultimitely our goal is a "happy" patient. Results with any cosmetic surgery are subjective. With all due respect to the responses on this thread, I can honestly say having personally worked with Dr. Griffin for 25+ years we have never "botched" a single patient. You as the patient can argue your expectations, as far as the level of fullness you imagined or expected from one procedure. Other responders can debate which techniques used in hair restoration today are arguably the best. But our results always look natural. Never "pluggy". We appreciate your choosing us and giving us an opportunity to serve you, and we wish you the best moving forward. Hopefully you will acheive the goals you seek. Please make sure you continue the use of HLPT. Dr. Griffin has performed Scalp Reductions, Flaps, Extenders, Expanders, HT's, FUE and now SMP scalp procedures for over 30 years. Every Provider that practices medicine has had or will eventually have a patient whose expectations were not met. ANY surgeon that has performed literally thousands of scalp cases will inevitably have an occassional patient that is not satisfied. This does not "define" their level of expertise or diminish the quality of their care or workmanship. We appreciate your comments, we will use it as motivation. It gives us an opportunity to reflect on how we can improve our care and better serve our patients. I apologize for the late response, the email listed for this site is corrupt and has now been properly updated. Best of luck to you Mike03980 and thank you fellow Forum members for your unbiased responses.