I was told my goals were unrealistic

[KevinC]

Hello all,

 

First time poster, long time lurker.

 

I recently decided to give the idea of hair restoration a whirl and have read a lot of threads here. The name I kept coming across was Dr. Konior was amazing and luckily for me Ann Arbor is close to Chicago. I didn't mind that people said he was expensive because I care more about quality than I do quantity.

 

I e-mailed him with my photos and he said my goals of hair restoration were unrealistic and he would only do 3000 grafts to get started. Even with this many grafts he wasn't confident about giving me a full head of hair again even with multiple sessions.

 

I have to say that felt like a knife plunged into my heart. I hate being bald. I went bald at 19 and I was scrawny and pasty -- people called me Moby I'm 29 now and I feel like I am a good place financially and life wise to do this.

 

Anyway, I am looking for other reputable surgeons to get opinions from so I can see what my options are. Preferably close to Ann Arbor, Denver, or NYC but I am willing to travel.

 

Also, if anyone has any experience with multiple surgeries or know the doctors who are good with big baldies like me that would be great. Dr. Wong and Dr. Hassan seem to be very good with large transplantations.

Edited March 19, 2016 by KevinC
It's been a long week and I did not write this well at all

[harin]

How old are you?, what does the back donor look like?

[KevinC]

I'm 29.

 

I feel like I lost a lot by 19 and gradually lost to 29. It's been a slow and steady process.

[esrec]

The best surgeons give the most honest advice, and dont just tell you what you want to hear. I would treat what Dr. Konior said as gospel. He's one of the best, if not the best.

 

I would consult with Dr. Ron Shapiro at SMG in Minneapolis-also one of the best and close to your location. He will likely confirm what Konior has already shared. I would also look into Hasson for your case.

 

I can imagine you're frustrated, just as we all are which is why we are here, but the last thing you want is someone making promises that can't be delivered. Expectations are the most important aspect of this process.

Edited March 19, 2016 by esrec

[lorenzo]

Are you looking for a doctor to tell you the truth or tell you what you want to hear. From what you said I completely agree with the doctor. His goals is not only to give you a high quality transplant but to make sure you are realistic on what is possible. This is a sign of a good doctor that is not about the money but about making you happy. You probably need about 6000-8000 grafts to cover your entire head and meds to make sure you don't continue to lose. This maybe possible but hard to say until he sees you in person and check your donor area. Good luck

[KevinC]

I re-read my post and I could have written that a lot better. I am just looking for second and third opinions from other well-known surgeons in the field. I'm assessing my options and trying to do a cost/benefit analysis of my whole situation.I realized I said I wanted to find a "surgeon who would work with me" which totally came out wrong. Just looking for more opinions and options to see what's out there.

Edited March 19, 2016 by KevinC

[Rashid36]

Welcome to the norwood 7 party !

[pkipling]

Hey man. I primarily just want to say that my heart goes out to you, and I really hope that whatever result you're able to receive will be something that you'll be at peace with and ultimately be happy with. I can't imagine losing so much hair at such a young age.

 

While Dr. Konior is extremely reputable and his recommendation should be taken very seriously, I don't see anything wrong with getting a couple other opinions. One option would be to reach out to Dr. Blake Bloxham on this forum and see what he has to say. He's located in NY.

 

And though we're located in LA, I would also be interested to see what Dr. Mohebi would have to say about this should you reach out to him as well.

 

In the meantime, given the circumstances, it would probably help you in the long run to slowly start trying to lower your expectations and accept the potential reality of the situation. You may not be able to have the head of hair you initially wanted, but that doesn't mean some sort of restoration isn't possible. And you may be surprised at how big of a difference even a seemingly small improvement could make.

 

Keep your head up - and screwed on tight! And of course keep people here in the loop so that we can help you keep things in perspective and help you make the decision that's best for you should it come to that. :cool:

[Spanker]

I think the missing component here is what ARE you expectations. Transplants don't really give full heads of hair, especially for nw4 and up. They can get nice coverage, but a full head of hair is a stretch. If I were you I'd work on my frontal half. Consult some more trusted docs, but I agree that Dr Konior is very reputable and you should take his advice seriously.

 

I think guys that are dead set on a full head of hair that are high norwood levels may also want to consider a hair system.

[lorenzo]

I think 3000 is a starting point and doesn't mean you cant get even 5000 grafts in a single session (depending on donor). I helped an Italian patient last year that had similar hairloss (from your pictures) was told 3000-3500 but ended up with 6500 grafts in one session.

[KevinC]

Ah! That makes sense.

 

I suppose what I also consider a full head of hair is probably slightly different than everyone else's definition given my Norwood level. I am not against multiple surgeries, but of course I am looking at most bang for buck as well as overall quality. For instance, I realllllly like Dr. Hassan and Dr. Wong. They seem to do a lot of FUT on guys like me.

 

It would be nice to get some sort of virtual simulation to be able to predict what could be done for me given how far-gone I am.

[404hairnotfound]

Ah! That makes sense.

 

I suppose what I also consider a full head of hair is probably slightly different than everyone else's definition given my Norwood level. I am not against multiple surgeries, but of course I am looking at most bang for buck as well as overall quality. For instance, I realllllly like Dr. Hassan and Dr. Wong. They seem to do a lot of FUT on guys like me.

 

It would be nice to get some sort of virtual simulation to be able to predict what could be done for me given how far-gone I am.

The problem is that a simulation will never accurately predict the final outcome; graft count alone is only one variable, everybody's hair characteristics are different and everyone heals differently. Which is why surgeons don't normally use simulations in their practice. It would likely lead to a lot of disappointed patients.

 

At your norwood level you have to keep your expectations realistic. There is just too much ground to cover and not enough donor hair to cover it all. If I were in your shoes I would focus on the frontal 1/3rd and pack as much hair as possible into that area. That would frame your face from the front and make a big difference visually. I would likely extend only as far back as the mid scalp with decreasing density as you go back to try to maintain the appearance of a natural progression of hair loss.

 

Definitely get more opinions, but be aware that there are doctors out there that will operate on just about anybody. That's not always a good thing.

 

Regardless of what you end up doing or where you decide to go, I wish you the best of luck.

[KevinC]

404hairnotfound is a hilarious name.

 

Reading Rashid35's thread did not inspire much confidence. My level of baldness has been consistent since I was 22 I'd say. It looks like I am a stage VI and I contacted Dr. Wong and Dr. Hassan. They seem to be the gurus for guys like me.

 

In the meantime will medications help me build my donor base at all? I'm not so worried about preventative because my level of baldness has been very slow and steady since the first initial hit.

 

Also, one thing I am confused about. When the doctor takes from a donor area does that mean it can never be harvested again? Can they not also take hair from the region they implant into years down the line or the original donor site?

 

Pray Dr. Wong and Dr. Hassan don't see me as a lost cause

Edited March 19, 2016 by KevinC

[KevinC]

Also, I didn't even think about hair restoration over the last decade until I was fooling around with some friends and I put a convincing wig on, snapped some photos, and fooled around on Tinder.

 

I got about 5 times more matches than I did when I was rocking a hat or even the shaved head which I've been told looks good on me. Heh.

 

I shouldn't be this sad because it's only been on my mind for a month but the idea of being permanently bald is awful.

[lorenzo]

Once the doctor sees your donor then you can get a better idea. I want to show you an example of an Italian patient that received around 5000 grafts in one session. I am not saying this is possible but it made a huge change,

[1978matt]

KevinC,

 

This is the best I could find that looks similar to your case:

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/139105-dr-vladimir-panine-chicago-hair-transplant-clinic-patient-class-vi-3-223-grafts.html

 

But even so, your donor may still not be as good as this guy's. This is probably the very best outcome you could hope for.

 

Maybe if you grow your hair out to about an inch we can get a better idea of its qualities (density, caliber, miniaturisation etc). It looks quite thin from what I can tell.

 

It sucks but you could have a look at Scalp Micro Pigmentation (SMP) options instead. There's a guy on here who offers it:

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/182842-extreme-closeups-temporary-scalp-micropigmentation.html

 

Good luck.

 

EDIT: agree with the comments about getting the donor checked out by a doctor. Allow your hair to grow a bit before visiting them.

[KevinC]

Hey guys,

 

Thanks for listening to me vent. I know it might seem weird to be irritated by something I didn't do anything about for ten years, but the idea of permanence is a bummer.

 

I appreciate the support.

 

Anyway, will Rogaine stimulate any hair growth that could potentially contribute to donor site? Can they harvest the donor site only once? Can hair that was transplanted act a donor site at any point?

[404hairnotfound]

Hey guys,

 

Thanks for listening to me vent. I know it might seem weird to be irritated by something I didn't do anything about for ten years, but the idea of permanence is a bummer.

 

I appreciate the support.

 

Anyway, will Rogaine stimulate any hair growth that could potentially contribute to donor site? Can they harvest the donor site only once? Can hair that was transplanted act a donor site at any point?

Donor hair is usually harvested from the safe zone - the hair follicles that live in this zone are resistant to androgenic alopecia - so using Rogaine on this area is superfluous. With FUT the donor area can be harvested from more than once depending on the laxity of the scalp. Typically a couple of transplants via strip harvesting are possible (I've had two). They will cut out the old scar, excise a new strip, and sow it up together. The second surgery will not typically yield the same number of grafts for the same length of strip due to existing scar tissue. I had 40% less yield the second time around. Not sure what you mean by hair that has been transplanted acting like a donor site. Typically the transplanted hairs are not re-transplanted.

[KevinC]

"...the hair follicles that live in this zone are resistant to androgenic alopecia..."

 

I understand now why my goal of a full head of hair may be unrealistic now.

 

Thanks!

[esrec]

Like mentioned, a significant cosmetic difference can be achieved but chasing perfection is a fools errand. Not worth your energy or anyone's. reframe your face with a top surgeon, see how you feel from there. Who knows, you might surprise yourself.

[KevinC]

I am definitely going to do some consultations and see what my options are, but now that I have some context and understand the procedure and its finite possibilities, I understand Dr. Konior's e-mail much more now.

 

Dr. Hassan has worked miracles for guys close to my situation.

 

https://hassonandwong.com/hair-transplant-results/patient1908/

[Melvin- Admin]

Full head of hair for a 29 year old norwood 6 is just not feasible, the doctor gave you good advice, the most unhappiest patients are the ones who's expectations were unrealistic, first and foremost are you on any preventive medication like Fin or Mionxidil?

 

I too am a norwood 6 im 30 years old, you have to know before committing to surgery that you'll never have actual density, what this means is that you'll never roll out of bed and have a full head of hair that looks thick from all angles. Hair length and hairstyle play a vital role in how your hair looks.

 

I just had a consult in person with Dr. Gabel, who is absolutely one of the most thorough and honest physicians i've ever met, he was literally blown away by the fact that I only got 4,000 grafts, then he began to part my hair and thoroughly examine my head and he realized my hairstyle played a big role in how I looked. You're going to have to maximize the grafts you receive and be crafty. Some guys are not willing to accept this fact, but thats exactly what it is a FACT. I haven't had any work done on my crown and we discussed my case in detail and he thinks I shouldn't have any crown work done until im maybe 40.

 

I agree with his assessment as I know this is what is best for me. Always be weary of a doctor who tries to sell you the moon, if its too good to be true its not. Instead of doing the crown completely, I'm going to address some problem areas in my midscalp and improve the transition from midscalp to crown so that it looks as natural as possible and flows smoothly i will also strengthen my lateral humps which connect to my crown. This will give my side profile a better fuller look. The key is planning, plan for something that looks good now and 10 years from now, you will lose more hair that is a fact how much is unknown, so using those finite grafts and placing them wisely make all the difference. Hope that makes sense.

[KevinC]

It does, absolutely.

 

At this point I feel as though I am probably only going to base my course of action off of what Dr. Wong and Dr. Hassan say from my online consultation.

 

Their work is phenomenal and they seem to tackle the toughest cases like mine.

 

I'm surprised by your admission of lack of thickness, though. Your hair looks phenomenal!

[Mick50]

I'm surprised by your admission of lack of thickness, though. Your hair looks phenomenal!

 

Yes HTsoon hair does look phenomenal from where he started and it will look even better with further work but as he said higher NW's will never have the result let's say a NW 2-3 will have. I was a NW 5-6, OK good sides but still basically a NW 5-6, as hair on top pretty much gone, just a few miniaturised hairs stubbornly remaining and and a large bald crown area.

 

Although i am delighted with my result ,having a hairline again in itself is great as it has restored symmetry to my features [ ha ,still an ugly fecker some might say] 4200 grafts can only do so much and I find lighting plays a big role in how it looks , I would say it look good in about 90- 95 per cent different lighting situations which is pretty good, ha considering it looked crap all the time before. Also how I comb it makes a big difference If I comb it slightly to the left it look denser than if I comb it straight back.

Expectation plays a huge role in how successful a transplant is, as long as you are realistic about what can be achieved I'm sure you can get a satisfactory result.

[Melvin- Admin]

It does, absolutely.

 

At this point I feel as though I am probably only going to base my course of action off of what Dr. Wong and Dr. Hassan say from my online consultation.

 

Their work is phenomenal and they seem to tackle the toughest cases like mine.

 

I'm surprised by your admission of lack of thickness, though. Your hair looks phenomenal!

 

Thanks I'm happy with the density, but as mick50 has said hairstyle play a vital role, if I wet my hair and comb my hair forward you'll see the difference, in 90-95% of situations it looks good, but if I nitpick for perfection I'll see flaws. The guy you posted had 8K grafts this is a lot of grafts most men can get 6K grafts tops, he also looks to be about 40, all of these things play a role, I would hate for you to bank on a result like that and come out disappointed. Be conservative now because there's no way to know how you'll end up in 10 years, 29 is very early in the game, it's a little easier to tell where you'll end up once you're in your 40's and 50's. Are you taking any hair loss prevention meds?