Are some people choosing FUT for lack of intelligence?

[aaron602]

Fut, has ruined my life before i even got a chance to live a life.

All i know now is social isolation, hoping one day this mess can be reversed with some sort of stem cell regeneration therapy..

Until then i contemplate living until then or not

[delancey]

Fut, has ruined my life before i even got a chance to live a life.

All i know now is social isolation, hoping one day this mess can be reversed with some sort of stem cell regeneration therapy..

Until then i contemplate living until then or not

 

Aaron, who was your surgeon?

[hadenough2014]

aaron - please go get some help from a pro psych doc. Every one of us knows how this can play with our minds when all we do is think about it. A mark on your head does not define you. I am sorry it went badly for you. There are solutions to fix a bad scar to a 90-100% improvement level - don't give up on them. There are lots of examples on this site of people who have had their scars fixed. A great doc will take enormous pride in fixing your scar.

 

Do you have any pics on a thread you can direct me to?

Edited November 24, 2014 by hadenough2014

[Shampoo]

aaron - please go get some help from a pro psych doc.

 

hadenough I agree with you that Aaron needs to see a mental health professional immediately. Depression and related issues are nothing to be ashamed of and/or to procrastinate dealing with.

[KO]

He needs to get his scar fixed, not a psych...

[Shampoo]

He needs to get his scar fixed, not a psych...

 

Anyone "contemplating living or not" needs to see a mental health professional immediately!

[scar5]

There are solutions to fix a bad scar to a 90-100% improvement level .

 

I don't want to discourage Aaron.

But, no there are not solutions that achieve 90-100% improvement in strip scars.

I would have found one by now if there were.

You can improve them aesthetically and significantly.

 

But there are tens of thousands of us with strip scars who regret them. So Aaron, you are not alone. And therapy or a mental health professional can help.

 

In the meantime, you wanna be working on a hairstyle that gives you dignity.

 

It's an ongoing saga and won't end until docs put down their scalpels and strip ends for good.

[hadenough2014]

I don't want to discourage Aaron.

But, no there are not solutions that achieve 90-100% improvement in strip scars.

I would have found one by now if there were.

You can improve them aesthetically and significantly.

 

But there are tens of thousands of us with strip scars who regret them. So Aaron, you are not alone. And therapy or a mental health professional can help.

 

In the meantime, you wanna be working on a hairstyle that gives you dignity.

 

It's an ongoing saga and won't end until docs put down their scalpels and strip ends for good.

 

scar5, I appreciate that you have gone through a difficult experience, but you need to disclose your full situation when you make these statements. You have had 7 FUT procedures dating back to 1987, when the industry was far different than what it is today. Your experience is not in context of today's possibilities. A young man like this chap needs to understand that in today's world he has options.

 

Today''s FUT and repair work in the hands of a great doc can fix even the worst problems left by prior docs. This site has many examples. It will take time and maybe even more than one solution, but it can be done. Do not try to save money, just focus on finding the best doc for your scenario.

 

The only caveat to all this is that you may have to wear your hair at a 3 guard or more on the clipper. If you want it shorter than that and you did FUT, then you did not research enough...ok, big deal, now just wear it a little longer after the repair and forget about it.

[scar5]

 

Today''s FUT and repair work in the hands of a great doc can fix even the worst problems left by prior docs.

 

If you want it shorter than that and you did FUT, then you did not research enough...ok, big deal,.

 

They can't.

I've been to the best of the very best. They can't hide a strip scar and the dents and valleys around them.

 

Yes, if I grow to a 5 guard I am good, but what about my dying crown? And pluggy thinning top?

 

Right back to where you started, a horseshoe except you have less options than a virgin scalp.

 

Today's surgeons are yesterday's surgeons and tomorrow's surgeons.

My last strip was 2009, by the best again, trico closure, double layer. Not my worst scar, but far from good and stretched. Desperate bid to fix prior work and continuing loss. And guess what, that doc didn't even wanna go near the worst scarred area.

 

I think the 'today's surgeons' and 'today's techniques' line is always suspect. My doc in 1988 said precisely the same thing.

Edited November 25, 2014 by scar5
2009 not 2006

[hadenough2014]

Yes, it is a relative issue and 10 years from now it will be even better. What is wrong with a guard 5? I would rather wear a guard 5 and have hair on top and in front than have no hairline but an untouched back of the head. I may as well shave if that's what I am after. That is the tradeoff we all accept with a HT...risk the back for the sake of the front, and the back can typically be made undetectable, even if the scar is not perfect.

 

No one should ever go into either procedure ever feeling your head will be as virgin coming out of the procedure as it was going in.

[1966kph]

Aaron602 you need to see a professional mental health adviser.

Most suicides are down to depression and for any of us to try and give you any kind of advice is missing the target.

Maybe you could post up some pictures and maybe a recommended doc here would offer you a free repair if your financial situation is preventing you getting a repair done.

But firstly you need to see someone about your depression.

You have a good day .

[Janna]

Spanker,

 

Did they officially stop using the ARTAS? I know they were using a hybrid of SAFE motorized and ARTAS for a while? Maybe Janna will chime in.

 

Hi Blake,

 

We stopped the using the ARTAS because we did not see an advantage over manual extraction and it ended up taking more time and staff than we expected. It just did not meet our needs. We did over 15O ARTAS cases and by far the majority had good growth about the same as with manual motorized extraction. The major problem we found was not in the viability of the grafts produced…..but that it was not able to extract as many grafts from certain sections of the head as we could manually. We have tried almost every type of extraction technique to try and find the best. Manually, we can use sharp or dull punches depending the tissue and hair caliber. We feel we have more flexibility with manual punches.

[bismarck]

4000-5000 grafts FUE procedures are performed to give an excellent result, but finishing off the donor area completely. There is just not enough time for those patients to get older, find about their donor area, complain about their surgeons decision and damage the surgeons reputation. There is not enough time and memory of patients to refute this mistake of the surgeons and the surgeons will surely get away with it.

 

Interesting. What about the point that overdoing strip can cause scars that would prevent you from being able to do FUE in the future?

 

I do not think it is unreasonable to assume that overdoing either FUE or FUT prevents you from getting the complementary procedure.

 

- Too sparse a scalp from FUE, the strip scar will show, not a candidate for FUT anymore.

 

- Too big a strip scar, can't afford to lose density, not a candidate for FUE anymore.

 

Is there a way to predict the category for which you're at more risk? If you have pencil thin scars, perhaps the most overall yield is from strip first. But if you have great donor density, perhaps the best best yield is from FUE first. Although this would also help with strip scars.

 

It does not seem unreasonable to think that scalp laxity, which appears more important for future strip procedures, would decrease with repeat procedures. Whether this is impacted more by FUE or FUT is an important point to consider.

[Ali Emre Karadeniz]

Interesting. What about the point that overdoing strip can cause scars that would prevent you from being able to do FUE in the future?

 

I do not think it is unreasonable to assume that overdoing either FUE or FUT prevents you from getting the complementary procedure.

 

- Too sparse a scalp from FUE, the strip scar will show, not a candidate for FUT anymore.

 

- Too big a strip scar, can't afford to lose density, not a candidate for FUE anymore.

 

Is there a way to predict the category for which you're at more risk? If you have pencil thin scars, perhaps the most overall yield is from strip first. But if you have great donor density, perhaps the best best yield is from FUE first. Although this would also help with strip scars.

 

It does not seem unreasonable to think that scalp laxity, which appears more important for future strip procedures, would decrease with repeat procedures. Whether this is impacted more by FUE or FUT is an important point to consider.

 

 

Let me just share my experience and not try to generalise;

 

I have never had a previous FUT patient who had run out of donor hair (except for the cases who had only one shot available) preventing me to improve his situation surgically, however most of my patients who had a previous FUE procedure were either non-operable or had little chance of improvement. The main difference I see is not that the first procedure had used up most of the donor hair, but FUE, especially when done by technicians, had depleted the donor area about 6000-7000 grafts while only giving a yield of 2000-3000 grafts.

 

Another problem is that, when a patient comes with a previous FUT, I feel I am on track by having the chance to do another FUT or if the laxity is not enough do FUE. However when a patient comes in with a previous FUE, I frequently find myself in trouble; I have a hard time getting enough grafts with another FUE or I have to do FUT on a field already damaged by FUE punches. I frequently have to choose the latter as the lesser evil but I feel I am doing it the wrong way round, FUT after FUE instead of FUE after FUT.

 

The big difference between FUT and FUE is that FUE is potentially much more dangerous in wasting donor hair, and it makes another session with either technique much less effective.

[hadenough2014]

Good post, Doc. This is what many of us believe after lots of research, but it's good to hear a practical confirmation from a Doc who sees many people every week. As much as I may have wanted FUE and could afford to pay for it, donor area is too precious to risk waste. I wanted maximium yield to correct my NW5. I believe my Dr. and his partners at the Shapiro Medical Group would agree with your comments based on a similar FUT vs. FUE write-up on their website and their advice to me.

[1966kph]

I agree on one point that I think fut should be done before fue to maximise yields.

And if its the case regarding techs doing extractions then maybe we should avoid what many regard to be tops docs such as Lorenzo, Erdoğan ect ect that have techs doing extractions?

Have a nice day

[Ali Emre Karadeniz]

I agree on one point that I think fut should be done before fue to maximise yields.

And if its the case regarding techs doing extractions then maybe we should avoid what many regard to be tops docs such as Lorenzo, Erdoğan ect ect that have techs doing extractions?

Have a nice day

 

 

I believe the problem I mentioned is inherent in the techniques and is beyond the importance of whether the grafts were extracted by techs or docs. The problem is still there even if it is done by docs. I have felt in many occasions after doing an FUE (despite offering the patient FUT first) that just by choosing to start with FUE, the patient has sacrificed a much more effective hair restoration for the long run.

[1966kph]

I agree Dr karadeniz

[hadenough2014]

I believe the problem I mentioned is inherent in the techniques and is beyond the importance of whether the grafts were extracted by techs or docs. The problem is still there even if it is done by docs. I have felt in many occasions after doing an FUE (despite offering the patient FUT first) that just by choosing to start with FUE, the patient has sacrificed a much more effective hair restoration for the long run.

 

Again, it is refreshing to hear a doc talk about FUT and FUE in this way on the forum, as these are some of exact reasons I chose FUT first, as I expect to need a small-to-moderate size FUE session sometime in the future to supplement my 4000 FUT grafts a bit, and I wanted to make sure I had enough high quality donor left, so I did FUT first. I believe in the value of each procedure for certain circumstances, but for higher balding classes like mine, I very much believe FUT first with FUE follow-up is best.

[Matt27]

Let me just share my experience and not try to generalise;

 

I have never had a previous FUT patient who had run out of donor hair (except for the cases who had only one shot available) preventing me to improve his situation surgically, however most of my patients who had a previous FUE procedure were either non-operable or had little chance of improvement. The main difference I see is not that the first procedure had used up most of the donor hair, but FUE, especially when done by technicians, had depleted the donor area about 6000-7000 grafts while only giving a yield of 2000-3000 grafts.

 

Another problem is that, when a patient comes with a previous FUT, I feel I am on track by having the chance to do another FUT or if the laxity is not enough do FUE. However when a patient comes in with a previous FUE, I frequently find myself in trouble; I have a hard time getting enough grafts with another FUE or I have to do FUT on a field already damaged by FUE punches. I frequently have to choose the latter as the lesser evil but I feel I am doing it the wrong way round, FUT after FUE instead of FUE after FUT.

 

The big difference between FUT and FUE is that FUE is potentially much more dangerous in wasting donor hair, and it makes another session with either technique much less effective.

 

I would like to know how common 35% yield (2-3k of 6-7k) is with FUE. That definitely doesn't sound like something common with top physicians, especially those who perform exclusively FUE.

[olmert]

I would like to know how common 35% yield (2-3k of 6-7k) is with FUE. That definitely doesn't sound like something common with top physicians, especially those who perform exclusively FUE.

 

A 35% yield pretty much never happens. He was exaggerating to make his point clear. I myself think he should re-post with realistic numbers.

[olmert]

I believe the problem I mentioned is inherent in the techniques and is beyond the importance of whether the grafts were extracted by techs or docs. The problem is still there even if it is done by docs. I have felt in many occasions after doing an FUE (despite offering the patient FUT first) that just by choosing to start with FUE, the patient has sacrificed a much more effective hair restoration for the long run.

 

 

I don't understand why you can't do the FUE first and extract from areas away from the the FUT donor zone. Then later on do FUT.

[1978matt]

A 35% yield pretty much never happens. He was exaggerating to make his point clear. I myself think he should re-post with realistic numbers.

 

I'm sure the doctor will clarify but he's not talking about growth yield. What he's saying is that the technicians take the equivalent of 6-7k grafts just to get 2-3k suitable for implantation in the donor area.

 

I.e. The patient goes in for a 3000 graft session but the technicians just drill away until they get the required amount of hair follicles that are not damaged. In the process of doing so they damage 3-4k follicles which get thrown away.

[olmert]

Matt1978, why do you take propecia only twice a week, 1 mg. Why don't you take 1/4 mg each day?

[1978matt]

Matt1978, why do you take propecia only twice a week, 1 mg. Why don't you take 1/4 mg each day?

 

I get minor sides whenever I take it and have tried small doses such as .25 mg. It just didn't work for me. However, I recently discovered taking vitamin D removed a lot of the sluggishness it caused me when taking it. I may try taking it 3 times a week soon.

 

At the moment I just take it late Friday and Monday nights. DHT takes about 10 days to return to normal levels after a single dose.

 

Apart from the above issues, twice weekly just seems to work for me. I don't really shed the amount of hair I used to.