Head sliced up in several places - normal?

[Toubey]

Hello my new hairloss friends, allow me to share my story and a question.

 

Two weeks ago I got a hair transplant in Greece. I made the mistake of not really doing much research but just went there and thought "well, they probably know their stuff". I've been losing hair for the past ten years and thought that now would be a good time to do something about it. I wasn't really panicky about it. In hindsight I've learned that a hair transplant is probably like a tattoo - you have to really want and need it, or else you'll regret it.

 

As you can probably guess by now, I regretted it. I hadn't anticipated the severity of the procedure. In fact I didn't even know there would be a scar. Two days later I thought "what on earth have I done". But that's not the worst part of the story. The worst part is that I may have been in the hands of shameless and amateurish businessman. There were some signs that got me suspicious afterwards:

 

 

 

• 
  
• The procedure didn't take more than 2,5 hours, although I've read that most times it takes a full day
  
• The doctor extracted the strip himself, but he didn't partake in the rest of the procedure. Instead, his "assistants" did that (not sure if they're nurses or just people off the street). Is that normal?
  
• As you can see from the image, it looks like not that many grafts have been planted on top of the head. Normal HT images seem to have grafts that are much more densely planted. Won't this look artificial once the hair grows?
  
• And here's the most pressing issue: It looks like the doctor has sliced me up in several places in the back of the head. I get the point with the wide scar in the back of the head. But what on earth are those 5-6 other scars doing there? Has anyone seen that before?
  

 

Some input would be great, especially regarding the cuts in the back of the head. If it's as bad and unnecessary as I think then people need to know who this guy is..

 

Toubey

[1978matt]

I'm sorry but that is outdated work, basically the sort of transplant you might have expected in the late 80s. Look up 'mini grafting' and that's probably what you had.

 

The only positive I can say is that at least they are in your crown area and not the hairline. That should give you a reasonably good chance of being able to hide them when they grow out.

 

Number 1 priority I would say is to get on Finasteride to prevent further hairloss and try to visit a Doctor recommended on this site. They can have a look and tell you what corrective work - if any - you may want to consider at this stage.

 

PS no idea about the other random scars.

[Rootz]

Are those other lines actually scars or just trails of blood? They seem to be gone in one of your photos.

 

Your pictures are chilling to look at, the fact that a "doctor" out there would perform such shoddy work... The doctor who did this must have been aware that his work is crap in comparison to others. I think knowingly performing shitty work violates some type of doctor's code. Whoever did this is not a doctor IMO. This is basically a scam. And if those other lines are indeed scars, then I think this should fall under criminal activity.

 

Try not to freak out you should be able to get this fixed and done right by a reputable doctor.

[Toubey]

Thanks for the replies! No those scars are genuine enough. The pictures are after I've showered and shampooed the hair for some days.

 

This is what the doctor wrote: "When applying the FUE method (Follicular Unit Extraction) we use a stitch to close the area from where the grafts where taken."

 

So basically they mean that they having taken FUE hairs from those places, and these are the scars. How does that sound? Never heard of anyone who got those kind of scars from FUEs..

[Rootz]

This is what the doctor wrote: "When applying the FUE method (Follicular Unit Extraction) we use a stitch to close the area from where the grafts where taken."

 

Stitch and FUE don't belong in the same sentence. He obviously did FUT, and then something else on top of that (the other scars)... God knows what, but it wasn't FUE. This doctor is at best entirely incompetent.

[Aftermath]

Thanks for the replies! No those scars are genuine enough. The pictures are after I've showered and shampooed the hair for some days.

 

This is what the doctor wrote: "When applying the FUE method (Follicular Unit Extraction) we use a stitch to close the area from where the grafts where taken."

 

So basically they mean that they having taken FUE hairs from those places, and these are the scars. How does that sound? Never heard of anyone who got those kind of scars from FUEs..

 

When true FUE is done no sutures are needed as the punches are below 1 mm and close on their own! Looks like he's punched out groupies of follicles ("plugs") calling it FUE which it most certainly isn't! Not sure what kind of scarring that could produce! One things for sure, when u get repaired, do some research and don't stray outside the recommended HT docs! The good news is u still have a fair amount of native hair and the situation your in is very likely fixable! No reputable doc would've done thus 2 u though!

[TakingThePlunge]

Toubey,

 

I've very sorry to see that you were subjected to this kind of work. However, as has already been stated, it can be fixed. I highly recommend contacting one or more of the skilled, experienced and ethical surgeons recommended by the Hair Transplant Network. Click here for our Interactive Map.

 

To learn about our criteria for recommending physicians, click here.

[Toubey]

Gentlemen, thanks a lot for the responses. I really appreciate it. I'm emailing the doctor now, and guess what - he has a very hard time explaining what those other scars are. Seems like he used me to get a quick surgery done (only 2,5 hours) to get maximum cash in a short time.

 

What a goddamn bastard. But I will make sure to write about him, and produce a website that details the lousy and horrendous job that he did. The scumbag is named Dr. Gouras and runs the Gouras Hair Genesis Clinic in Athens, Greece.

[Toubey]

Does anyone have experience suing or reporting a doctor in a foreign land to the police? Would like to research this possibility. He needs to be brought to some kind of justice for what he did.

[Toubey]

Alright gentlemen, here's an update for those who may find the thread later by googling the clinic (Gouras Hair Genesis Clinic in Athens, Greece):

 

I've now had confirmed by another clinic (Poseidon Clinic, Copenhagen Denmark) that the job done on the top of head is not okay, and that it resembles inefficient 80s style method. I however also got confirmed that there are no extra scars on the back of the head - the ones on the picture must have been blood trails after all (dried blood that took several washes to wash out).

 

I wrote the Gouras clinic and explained how I was unsatisfied. They have responded and told me that they offer to pay me back the amount + my flight to Greece if I am still dissatisfied in 9 months from now when the hair has fully grown. I think that sounds like a fair proposal so I'll wait until then and update this thread with whatever happens.

[gillenator]

Toubey,

 

First, please allow me to commend you for your transparency regarding what happened to you. That is also commendable of you to warn others. Trust me, what occurred was an individual who was attempting to learn HT surgery. Who knows what medical training or even background he has. IMHO, he probably attended some weekend workshop and rather than learning the appropriate methodology of HT surgery under the supervision of another surgeon, he decided money was far more important...:confused:

 

The punch sizes he used were very large, way over 1mm in size. They are smaller punch out grafts, nothing more. Will you have growth? Possibly, only time will tell. Since FUE started to become popular just over a decade ago, I have heard from various patients world-wide, a fair number from Greece and Cyprus. My understanding is that doctors have to be licensed but are virtually unregulated. This is true in Europe and the UK as well. North America also does a poor job handling physician misconduct. It is not a rare beast by any means.

 

Just the fact that they offered a complete refund including your travel expenses is an admission of guilt IMHO. But be thankful because that is very rare to see and if I were you, I would get your money back right now and not wait. The longer you wait, the less likely you will get "anything". I know this firsthand after four decades of trying to help patients who were taken advantage of in cases just like yours.

 

It appears that you live in Europe somewhere? There are a number of ethical and talented FUE surgeons there that can do some ethical repair for you and many of us can give you recommendations.

 

How old are you? My concern for you is that you also appear to have a compromised and/or weak donor. What I mean by that is that there are signs of advanced diffusion and a low density. You also have some retro-alopecia going on IMHO. I opened your photos in a much larger frame and really looked them over. My premonition is that you have a form of generalized thinning throughout your scalp. So I would not recommend that you do any large sessions of restoration, but rather get the work that you had done resolved. Your frontal zone is both diffusing and receding and at your young age, probably will be next to go. My guess is that you have men on either side of your family history who are Norwood class 7s right?

 

You really need to have your donor zone microscopically examined to see how much of it is considered terminal hair if any. That is the first step your doctor should have done before ever doing any surgery whatsoever on you. Unless you have any DHT resistant hair, the transplants won't last. That's the scientific truth so don't waste any more money.

 

And I also agree that you are sooooo fortunate that those initial photos were not vertical strip scars. What occurred is that you lost some of the large grafts and that was bleeding that ran downwards from the effects of gravity.

 

Trust me, unless you go to the European and UK forums, this guy who did this to you will do it again to the next guy with money. I have seen it a zillion times. And he is hoping with all of his might that you won't expose him.

 

So get your money now or tell him you will put up your photos and story on every hair loss patient chat forum in the world. You don't have to use defamatory words because your pics tell the story. Just be honest but really, others need to be warned because what this guy did in unconscionable and yes IMHO criminal! I can't even call him a doctor and who knows if he even has a medical license...:eek:

 

Ok, enough of the doom and gloom, let's focus on getting this procedure you had as resolved as possible and move on.

 

I wish you the best and keep doing your online homework. At this point, every decision that you make must be a fully informed one...

[Al - Moderator]

It looks like you only had crown work done. It may not turn out so horribly bad as the crown can accept somewhat larger grafts before being too noticeable. You will have to do a 2nd pass with FUT or FUE from someone other than who you went to to fill in some of the spaces.

 

AL

[Dr. Timothy Carman]

Toubey-

 

I would agree after looking at the photos you may have larger grafts placed in a fashion that would indicate multi-follicular units were used. While the density and arrangement certainly are more reminiscent of techniques of days gone by, by no means does this signal as great a disaster as one would think. Hopefully the grafts were placed in appropriate angles- that somewhat mimic the "whirl" pattern in the crown. We'll just have to see. This will all unfold over the next years time. IMHO it would be premature to assess prior to at least a year- especially for further transplant planning. Remember, should those grafts grow, they ARE adding hair mass to that area. Although possibly less than natural looking once this procedure has grown in, it is my opinion that a second procedure done artistically with exclusively FU grafts will be able to camouflage those grafts quite nicely with an acceptable result. So yes, do your research before the next one, but chin up, this looks totally fixable to my eye. -Dr Carman

[Toubey]

Thanks for the detailed reply Gillenator.

 

I think I actually will wait those 8-9 months - just to occupy the moral high ground. If I don't he can always come back and say "but you didn't wait for the hair to grow". I however - like you - think that the end result is not going to be too promising, and I think the doctor knows this too.

 

Once I get my money back I will write a full review for other people to see. However I have to be fair and also mention he did pay me my money back. Then I will let people decide for themselves.

 

Can I ask what retro-alopecia is? And yes, he didn't ask me about anything. He went into his office where I sat, looked at my hair and said "perfect", then he asked if I had any questions and I didn't, so the surgery commenced. It's partly my own fault for being so naive and uneducated, but mostly his fault for not doing a proper job.

 

I don't think more hair transplants are the way to go either. I am probably losing hair too fast and I'm only 30. One thing I will try though, is the scalp muscle exercise which is supposed to halt hair loss and in some cases even reverse it. Will start doing this once my smile scar is fully healed (6 months post-op). Will keep you guys updated. If this exercise works, it might be a game-changer.

[voipman]

Toubey

 

I think you need to do a lot of home work about hair loss as you show to be void of any knowledge on this subject. Scalp muscle exercise is useless period.

 

The only approved method of combating hair loss is Propecia and Minoxidil. There are other things but i will not mention them as you need to do the research and make you own well informed decision.

 

The surgery will look dire and look very dolls head, so i would consider some cover up to lessen the effect like toppik or dermatch.

[aWidowsPeek]

Toubey maybe this will make you learn to do some damn research before A SURGICAL OPERATION. I mean come on. Sick of seeing so many guys run to the most convenient "Doctor" THEN start to research. Sad

[Toubey]

Thank you for your constructive message Widowspeak. Sadly, you are however right. I should have researched. And it still baffles me why I did not.

 

Voipman, thanks for the reply. I did Propecia probably 8 years ago, and it killed my dick for some time. Have read about people who are still impotent 5 years after. Must admit I'm too scared of taking anything that alters your hormonal balance.

 

I read about some people here and there who seem to have success with the scalp contraction, although it doesn't seem to be a miracle-worker. More like stopping shedding and increasing hair thickness instead of making it regrow. What makes you say it doesn't work, period?

[voipman]

If it worked to any degree we would all be doing it as scam artists have claimed it works for decades and yet no results. I have even read people rubbing sperm on their scalps in the vain hope of regrowth, are you to try that ? LOL.

 

If you wish to get results then do some decent research and take alot of whats said with a pinch of salt as you seem very vulnerable.

[Toubey]

Haha, vulnerable well that depends on what you mean ;-). But it's true I haven't done much research in the HT area - so far.

 

I know the massage stuff doesn't work. I have seen the massage exercises, massage combs and whatnot been advertised before. Hell for all I know you can probably buy a hair massage hairdryer complete with a sperm spray function. But Tom Hagerty's muscle exercise is different. It doesn't massage the scalp area but contracts the muscle. I haven't seen that one advertised before. And it is nearly impossible to sell it as it's a muscle exercise and therefore doesn't require you to buy anything (you just contract the muscles, and that's it). He even gives it away for free.

 

And I'm not too sure that many people have tried it. I have been meditating and doing energy work for about a year now. I've told everyone about the great effects it has, but very few people seem to have the discipline to keep it up every day. Reckon it's the same with the exercise: Only very few people try it. And those that see success are probably just happy and get on with their lives, and don't spend time online writing about it.

 

In any case, I'm gonna give it a try. And if it does work I hope I'll be one of those guys who actually comes back and write about it, so can pay back a bit on some of the help I've received in here.

[voipman]

Really Tom Hagerty you buy into this guy ? you need to get real about what crap is on the internet and ask for advise and then research and keep doing it as you are indeed vulnerable believing in that crap.

 

By the way ill add a Paypal method for my advise. Lol

[wylie]

Imagine all those grafts placed at the FRONT of your scalp and along your hairline, and that is what my first ever hair transplant looked like. Your third picture brings back a lot of memories (not pleasant ones, either).

 

My one and only saving grace from that nightmare (which I repeated multiple times, when there were no forums like this one) was that I went into the procedure with a receding hairline and insisted that my hairline follow it's original pattern. Thanks to Dr. Umar it has been slightly lowered while still remaining in a completely normal receding pattern. Had I of gone Elvis with the hairline design than repair would have meant a complete removal of these offensive 'mini grafts'.

 

The problem I see here is that you may experience further hairloss and the grafts will become more obvious, meaning that covering these up with a finite resource of scalp hair will leave little hair left over for frontal work. You have to use your remaining resources wisely from now on.

 

I would not suggest a course of action to you, I would consult with qualified repair surgeons (not all surgeons are as experienced as others in this field, so be aware just because someone has a great body of work, it may not be in repair) and consider all your options, including removal of these mini-grafts.

[gillenator]

I see that you had 5500 beard grafts. How long ago was your FUE procedure and how well did the beard grafts grow?