10 Months Update - Dr Bhatti - 3180 grafts in Jun 2013

[gillenator]

Thanks gillenator. I was in fact aware that some of it had to do with 'shock loss' to already miniaturizing existing hair immediately behind the recipient site - hair that was on its way out anyway. Do you think the skill of the surgeon has any impact on minimizing this? And can an experienced surgeon tell by examining a patient's hair if they are currently experiencing or are at risk of experiencing loss to hair shaft diameter?

 

You mention 'the chase,' but that seems to be the case with a lot of notable successes on here. Maybe not the chase part, but getting back into the chair for multiple procedures to achieve desired results. Now I know you're not talking about them - you're referring to the diffuse thinners who end up frustrated and broke, but it seems very few people, diffuse or otherwise, are one and done.*

 

 

*Except for maybe 1978Matt

 

 

You know, I believe the real issue here is the potential of future loss whether by the three categories I mentioned, but especially by the diffused with recessionary ones.

 

No skill can replace/reverse the level of loss in one's lifetime because it is tied into their respective genetic time clocks.

 

And yes you are correct that more men lose by recessionary patterns than by both. But everyone has some degree/level of diffusion when we have MPB. It's just part of the equation. Yet more men lose in a distinct pattern of recession and why they tend to achieve more "visual success" with surgical hair restoration.

 

It always angers me when doctors don't take the time to effectively analyze their patients for miniturization and diffusion. It's very easy to do but takes some time. Yet every single individual IMHO is worth taking the time!

 

We all own computers and all it takes is the purchase of a scope and the time to download the images methodically over a period of time. A simple basic scope starts at $49.00 US at Radio Shack and can be purchased online like I did years ago.

 

Now I am not implying each and every patient with MPB has to go through this. I never did when I started, however it's the individuals that clearly have the advanced classes of MPB in their family histories and experience significant hair loss at an early age.

 

Every female suffering from genetic hair loss should IMHO have this evaluation done without any exceptions. No deviations, period.

 

Hope you do not think I am a radical about these issues but when you see soooo many people suffering from hair loss as I have over the past 40 years, it still beaks my heart to see the negative impact that hair loss can have on people.

 

That's also why I think that sometimes a quality high end hair system is a good option for those with both diffused and recessionary loss patterns that manifests at an early age in life.

 

And may I add to any skeptics about me as an objective independent hair loss advocate, no I don't sell hair systems nor do I sell any products at all...

[gillenator]

Reminded me somewhat of this post:

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/172099-you-surgical-candidate-why-why-not.html

 

Hey Matt, I see that your session with Dr. Konior was a big one last August.

 

How are things coming along since you are approximately ten months post-op?

 

I have a lot of respect for him both as a talented surgeon and also for his outstanding ethics...

[eternaldenied]

eternal,

 

 

 

I know that you are not taking low dose finasteride without even asking you right? I know this is a personal elective decision so no need to pursue that.

 

 

Hope this makes some sense to you my good friend.

 

Gillenator,

 

You entire post is indeed very helpful. I didn't get your point on low dose finasteride ? Could you please explain that.

 

Yes, I do take finpecia every alternate day. I was asked for 1mg finpecia every day for 6 months.I couldn't take that every day because I experienced some side effects. However, I could handle that well when I brought down the frequency.

 

I am continuing with 1 mg every alternate day because I believe I would have to continue with at least one of the proven medication to save/improve whatever I have left. yes, I am aware of the side effects and I am taking this risk.

 

I have sent you a PM on why I am stressing about hair so much. Check that when you get time. Ta.

 

~eternalDenied.

[eternaldenied]

eternal,

 

Yes IMHO, your beard grafts are the salvation of your case "if" you get good yield from them. Whatever you do, "don't" commit to a large beard graft session. Start with a test session to see how you respond. There is an ongoing discussion, sometimes heated, that beard donor is still part of the head and should not be recognized that it is BH.

 

Don't buy into that balarney! Beard hair is BH without question. Only grafts taken from the scalp is considered viable and there are still very few beard graft cases that are clinically documented. What concerns me is that over the past year, beard hair became one of the hot topics in the hair loss forums. Lots of guys claimed they were having it done. Maybe they did, but my question is, "Where are the results?" ...:rolleyes:

 

Now, I am not stating that beard hair is a fluke but I am very careful to draw any conclusions about anything until I see documented clinical results that are consistent across the board before I can believe in it. This is why you have to approach beard hair just like it was BH because IMHO, it is.

.

 

Gillenator,

 

Beard grafts are indeed the salvation in my case if I get good yield from them. As far as results from my first FUE is concerned, I think beard grafts have given good results infact I would say the only visible appearance that you see in my case is from the beard grafts(700 in number). I can say that those are beard grafts because they are thick and strong. I love them except that their texture is not as smooth and silky as my scalp hairs. Rest 2500 scalp grafts-I don't know where did they disappear ?

 

That's the good news. The bad news is that

 

1. I don't know how many of them is left in the shadow area.

2. There were beard grafts extracted from my jaw line which is not very good thing because they have left scars that you can see with naked eye if you do a close scrutiny;however, at the same time I believe that these jaw line beard grafts are strong and thick ? And may be the one from the shadow area are not that strong. Just my assumption.

 

This time if I decide to go ahead, I want to target only and only shadow area. Any idea how many beard grafts one would ideally have in the shadow area ?

 

~eternalDenied

[changinglights12]

As someone who is on a budget, and is considering Dr. Bhatti, I must say this is very disappointing. From my understanding he is recommended on this forum, and sounds like a knowledgeable doctor, though I have seen a couple of threads now with not so great results.

 

To those saying his donor is the problem, that draws some skepticism to the doctor agreeing to do the transplant in the first place, no?

 

Eternal, I think it would look decent buzzed to be honest, or using dermmatch would be a good alternative.

[California]

As someone who is on a budget, and is considering Dr. Bhatti, I must say this is very disappointing. From my understanding he is recommended on this forum, and sounds like a knowledgeable doctor, though I have seen a couple of threads now with not so great results.

 

To those saying his donor is the problem, that draws some skepticism to the doctor agreeing to do the transplant in the first place, no?

 

Eternal, I think it would look decent buzzed to be honest, or using dermmatch would be a good alternative.

 

Hi Changinglights12,

 

You have mentioned that a "couple of threads from Dr. Bhatti patients had not so great results". You have also mentioned the "disappointment" factor.....

I am taking the liberty of jumping onto this thread here to provide some clarifications.

 

1. Dr. Bhatti is currently not recommended on this forum (though he is recommended on almost all other forums). Because of that, Dr. Bhatti and/or his representatives are NOT allowed to post any of his cases/results on this forum. The Dr. Bhatti cases that you see here are ONLY those that are posted by his patients themselves. I am hoping and praying for the day when we will be allowed to post Dr. Bhatti cases on this forum for everyone to see and judge.....

 

2. Eternal had to choose between not having hair for the rest of his life (granted his hair loss was quite extensive and his scalp donor was limited) or make efforts towards getting some level of decent or semi-decent hair coverage. He chose the latter. He chose an HT Surgeon that specializes in BHT. I would do exactly the same. I would choose some hair to no hair....any day. That is a personal decision that each one of us has a right to make.

 

3. With his level of hair loss, I don't believe that he or anyone else on this forum was expecting a full coverage with 3180 grafts. Please take a look at his pre-op and immediate post-op pictures and details below:

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/171136-my-hair-transplant-experience-3180-grafts-dr-bhatti.html

 

4. I do not know any HT Surgeon that has given a 100% stellar/perfect results every single time. That said, I can understand where Eternal is coming from. Maybe he was not expecting a full head of hair but he was expecting more hair growth than what he currently has.

 

5. Mickey had made a comment about "Dr. Bhatti backing up his work being fiction". My response to that is that "YES....he does back up his work". In Eternal's case since the Patient feels that his results are less than optimal.....Dr. Bhatti has offered a 50% discount for the next procedure that Eternal gets done at his Clinic (if Eternal chooses to go ahead with the follow up procedure with Dr. Bhatti). This has been conveyed to Eternal via private messaging. Please note that the 50% discount is being offered just because Eternal happens to be the ONLY Dr. Bhatti patient that is not happy with his HT results......Dr. Bhatti is willing to do whatever it takes to get Eternal to the point where he is a happy camper (obviously with realistic expectations).

 

Please note that I tend to refrain from posting on this forum but felt the need to provide some clarifications. All of us hair loss sufferers empathize and sympathize with each other. That is heart warming to see. I am happy that Eternal is getting the awesome support that the users of this forum always provide.

 

Thank you,

California

[Mickey85]

California, thanks for chiming in. Eternal did say that the next procedure "is not free" and mentioned nothing of a discount. Nice to hear that a 50% discount is being offered. No one was expecting a full head of hair on an individual like Eternal after only 3,180 grafts, but it is clear that alot of those grafts did not manifest. All in all, very nice to hear Bhatti offering a generous 50% discount.

[California]

California, thanks for chiming in. Eternal did say that the next procedure "is not free" and mentioned nothing of a discount. Nice to hear that a 50% discount is being offered. No one was expecting a full head of hair on an individual like Eternal after only 3,180 grafts, but it is clear that alot of those grafts did not manifest. All in all, very nice to hear Bhatti offering a generous 50% discount.

 

Hi Mickey85,

 

Always a pleasure to "talk" to you on this forum:)

 

Thanks for your kind words. Highly appreciated.

 

To be fair to Eternal, he got to know about the 50% discount for his next procedure, only yesterday. He has shown a tremendous amount of patience and persistence and I am looking forward to seeing good results from his follow up HT with Dr. Bhatti.

 

Thanks,

California

[gillenator]

As someone who is on a budget, and is considering Dr. Bhatti, I must say this is very disappointing. From my understanding he is recommended on this forum, and sounds like a knowledgeable doctor, though I have seen a couple of threads now with not so great results.

 

To those saying his donor is the problem, that draws some skepticism to the doctor agreeing to do the transplant in the first place, no?

 

Eternal, I think it would look decent buzzed to be honest, or using dermmatch would be a good alternative.

 

 

All good points.

[gillenator]

One of my points to eternal was that he may want to consider taking some time off to allow his common sense and not his emotion to rule his decision making.

 

That being said, one of the things that none of us can judge is the other individual's dreams and goals. I mean who am I to say what he "should" and "should not" do?

 

I am constantly challenged to stay aware of not judging others who for whatever reasons decide they are not happy with their current look of having hair loss. I know this first hand having had four separate procedures myself.

 

Yet to those with extensive hair loss or are genetically disposed for the advanced classes of hair loss, "Know what you are getting into in terms of both benefits and the "risks".

 

And know your own limitations. It's so compelling to dream of having a full head of hair or complete coverage, visually speaking.

 

But if one's donor limitations do not accommodate those goals, then it's time to step back and reconsider what can be achieved, not what we always want.

[gillenator]

eternal,

 

Just saw your PM and will get back to you my friend...

[eternaldenied]

California, thanks for chiming in. Eternal did say that the next procedure "is not free" and mentioned nothing of a discount. Nice to hear that a 50% discount is being offered. No one was expecting a full head of hair on an individual like Eternal after only 3,180 grafts, but it is clear that alot of those grafts did not manifest. All in all, very nice to hear Bhatti offering a generous 50% discount.

 

Mickey,

 

I sent an email to Dr Bhatti stating my concerns and asking his feedback/comments on my 10 months update. I am yet to receive a reply from him;however, California confirmed me that he spoke to Dr Bhatti for my case and Dr Bhatti has offered a 50% discount for my second procedure.

 

@California - Thanks very much to you for getting in touch with Dr Bhatti on my behalf and Thanks very much to Dr Bhatti for offering me a discount.

 

Having said that, I would like to pen down a few points from my experience for hair loss victims who might stumble upon this thread.

 

As mickey pointed out and is evident from my pictures a lot of grafts didn't manifest into terminal hairs. When I say a lot there could be very well 1500 to 2000 grafts that didn't grow into terminal hairs. Now, this does not mean that Bhatti didn't do a good job. I am sure every Doctor wants that his patient get best of the results but medical science is different from engineering science and results in medical science can vary to a large extent.I have been doing a lot of reading on

FUE

results lately and I read that

FUE

yield is always on the down side when compared to

FUT

. there are a lot of factors on which

FUE

yield depends - e.g transection, the solution in which your grafts are kept etc .

 

 

 

So for patients like me who have a lot of terrain to cover and who do not have thick donor hair - we should probably go for a combination of

FUE

+

FUT

.

FUE

for cherry picking the grafts (BH may be) and

FUT

for better yield.

 

 

 

@Mickey- I know you are pro

FUE

. So you might have a different opinion and I would be happy to hear that.

 

 

 

Secondaly- Do not rush into the surgery. Do a lot of research before you decide for your

HT

. It is a life changing decision. I guess, I would have to accept that I rushed into surgery. I saw Johny24 results and I was so impressed by his results that I decided to go ahead. When I compared johny24 pre pop pics with mine I saw that we shared similar balding area and therefore I took the plunge. I was like if he could get that result why can't I. We should remember that we all are different and we should not get influenced by someone else results.

 

 

~eternalDenied

Edited April 15, 2014 by eternaldenied

[Mickey85]

Hi Mickey85,

 

Always a pleasure to "talk" to you on this forum:)

 

Thanks for your kind words. Highly appreciated.

 

To be fair to Eternal, he got to know about the 50% discount for his next procedure, only yesterday. He has shown a tremendous amount of patience and persistence and I am looking forward to seeing good results from his follow up HT with Dr. Bhatti.

 

Thanks,

California

 

All good Very good to hear that Bhatti is assisting Eternal, no questions asked. Also good to hear of Bhatti's potential recommendation being re-considered. I do apologize for jumping the gun on the discount.

[Since21]

When I compared johny24 pre pop pics with mine I saw that we shared similar balding area and therefore I took the plunge. I was like if he could get that result why can't I. We should remember that we all are different and we should not get influenced by someone else results.

 

Go easy on yourself. It is the results of other patients we see that ultimately influence our decision of who we want to do our surgery and to take the plunge. I can't imagine you saw one result and your decision was made.

[KO]

Eternal, have you tried buzzing down your hair to a fine grade? I suspect it will look decent, given your darker skin tone.

[California]

All good Very good to hear that Bhatti is assisting Eternal, no questions asked. Also good to hear of Bhatti's potential recommendation being re-considered. I do apologize for jumping the gun on the discount.

 

Hi Mickey,

 

Absolutely no need for an apology. It is all good:) As I said before, your feedback and opinion are always highly appreciated. Thank you for your support. Eternal is all set for his HT#2 with Dr. Bhatti (date has been confirmed). Looking forward to seeing some good results from his side...

 

Thanks,

California

[eternaldenied]

All,

 

Thank you very much for your inputs. As California confirmed, I have decided to go ahead with the second procedure as I think if I don't get the second one done my first procedure would be money and resource(grafts) went down the drain.

 

Since I would be putting more money and more grafts this time as well, this is going to be a make or break procedure for me for years to come.

 

I have read and re- read gilleanator's post rearding shockloss and I understand that I am very prone to shockloss according to that.(recessionary diffused)

 

 

 

1. I would like to know whether there are any actions( regions to choose for

HT

, shave the head? etc) that I can take to prevent/minimize the shockloss ?

 

 

 

2. Could there be shock loss to transplanted hairs as well ?

 

PS: I am getting operated on 8th May 2014. Good luck to me.

[Britanium]

Hi

So what is the plan for your second HT? in terms of graft numbers and where they are to be placed?

[mikeey]

i feel for you , given that having a HT is not a child's play , there is considerable pain , imagine 6000 holes punctured in ur scalp , 3000 for removing the plugs , 3000 for inserting the plugs , plus the 25 or more injections to the scalp .... imagine the TRAUMA that the head goes through ... and then the numbness in the scalp for atleast 4 months ... too much agony if the results are below par ..... and then another HT just to fix the previous one ...uuuffff .... I better shave my head and go to rest .

[gillenator]

eternal,

 

Mikeey makes some valid points. There will be a significant level of trauma to your scalp with a subsequent procedure. And yes, that can potentially and probably will affect your yield and induce more shock.

 

Many think that just because the outer scalp has no more visible scabbing, that everything is healed. Not true. Your auto-immune system is still repairing the inner dermis layer along with the nerves and blood vessels. The lingering trauma varies between individuals.

 

Now, shock loss normally does not occur with transplanted hair for the average HT patient. But until your scalp fully recovers from the last procedure, your scalp would be at a higher level of risk IMHO. Because of that, your prior grafts may shock and they may not. There is really no way of knowing, no guarantees. And shaving your head will not in any way reduce the level of shock loss.

 

It's common sense that would tell you to wait. Not sure why you feel you have to put the medal to the pedal. If the clinic stated they are offering a discount, then take them up at a later time. To me, it makes no sense to have another sizable procedure and so soon.

 

One last thing my friend. I truly hope your grafts will last because I still think your donor zone is not totally DHT resistant and another reason why I felt that you are not an ideal candidate. So part of my concern is that if your prior grafts shock out from the trauma, will they regrow?

 

I sincerely wish you the best and strongly encourage you to use your logic and not your emotions. I know that's easier said than done, and wish you the best.

[mikeey]

i just know one thing ,,,,, HT is a Bloody thing , but worth it if the results are good .... otherwise u end up fixing the damage for ur entire life , there have been forums across the net cautioning people not to go for it ... while not always a bad thing , but mostly people end up with low density .... grafts not maturing .... and even loosing the good hair due to shock loss , i have seen friends loosing good hair from shock loss that never grew back and now they are left with gaps between their HT ... pl do research atleast till 6 mnths , and if u think u can avoid it .... AVOID it ... no one says that HT is the vital thing .... no it is not ... living LIFE is vital there are far more things that we overlook in life ,,,, becos we are so OBSESSED with Hair ... NO NO NO a True loving girl is not interested in ur hair .... she is interested in you .... your qualities .... ur persona ... Hair is imp. but NOT everything in life ....

[changinglights12]

i just know one thing ,,,,, HT is a Bloody thing , but worth it if the results are good .... otherwise u end up fixing the damage for ur entire life , there have been forums across the net cautioning people not to go for it ... while not always a bad thing , but mostly people end up with low density .... grafts not maturing .... and even loosing the good hair due to shock loss , i have seen friends loosing good hair from shock loss that never grew back and now they are left with gaps between their HT ... pl do research atleast till 6 mnths , and if u think u can avoid it .... AVOID it ... no one says that HT is the vital thing .... no it is not ... living LIFE is vital there are far more things that we overlook in life ,,,, becos we are so OBSESSED with Hair ... NO NO NO a True loving girl is not interested in ur hair .... she is interested in you .... your qualities .... ur persona ... Hair is imp. but NOT everything in life ....

 

Have to agree. The more and more I read about it, HT's aren't worth it unless you're somewhat of a middle aged person with already decent coverage.

 

Filling in temple point or just half of your scalp can be attained with proper surgeon research and lets face it, luck too.

 

So many people are NW6/NW7 by their late 40's-mid 50's, and these people are also getting HT's in their mid 20's-late 20's. Might look good for the time being, but at the end of the day it will end up looking pretty crappy.

[Spanker]

I honestly think the entire surgery should be comped. Not just a portion. I can't tell at which ones are befores and which are afters. This is not saying that it is the doctor's fault. But when there is basically no growth, the clinic should eat that IMO.

[California]

Hi Spanker,

 

With all due respect, I do not agree with your comment that "there is basically no growth". I have attached six pictures for Eternal (from the pictures that he had uploaded). First two are pre-op, next two are 3 days post-op and the last two are 10 months post-op. Now, I will let you decide if there has been "no growth".

 

I know that you are very knowledgeable about HT and hence would know that for this level of hair loss, a single procedure of 3180 grafts is not going to provide a full/decent coverage. Please keep in mind the fact that due to the scalp donor graft limitations, only 2456 grafts were harvested from the scalp. Rest (726 grafts) came from the beard area.

 

Dr. Bhatti does back up his work. Providing a 50% discount for this Patient's upcoming procedure (where a lot of the donor hair will be BHT and hence twice as expensive) is totally fair.

 

Thanks,

California

[singhdiking]

Based on the pictures uploaded by California, it does appear that growth has taken place. But area to be covered is just too much and therefore it appears as if nothing has grown.

 

Eternal, Why did you select Dr. Bhatti and not someone like Dr. A Pswal? Asking since C'garh is pretty close to Delhi.