How can you know the number of transplated grafts?

[gentel_man83]

How can you be sure that you will have a 3000 grafts not 2000?

 

I mean, when a doctor says "we are going to transplant a 3000,2500,4000 grafts..etc"

How can you be sure that you will not be fooled and have less than the planned number? "to garantee that you will come again":cool:

 

is there a way to figure it out ? :confused:!

[Tsakalos]

actually u dont..

[Danielkiwi]

yes..doctos will only give you a range...it is a risk that you need to take..

[aaron1234]

You really can't be sure. You just have to really trust your doctor/clinic. Fortunately for me, I trust mine. Some guys here recommend counting each "crunch" you hear when they are creating the recipient sites. Good luck with that.

[Sparky]

Try counting the crunches when your on valium, its too difficult.

[ukbloke]

I would imagine some form of mathematical calculation is made by the physician. hairs per square millimeter x length x width of donor area. It seems to me number of hairs are easier to calculate than number of graphs or am I wrong. Though of course not knowing how many of the graphs will be 1, 2, 3 or even 4 hairs could cause an issue as people have varying degrees of these folicle groups. But if somebody only had single hair graphs and the calculation was out and they amounted to only 2500 single graphs then maybe some form of part refund or money of future procedure would be the honourable offer to be made to the patient. On the other hand someone who paid for 300 graphs but only had say 2700, but a higher than average number of these graphs were 2 and 3 hairs then the physician and his/her team have had a shorter than expected day at the office but te bonus for the patient is that their are still more graphs to be harvested if required. I'm sure the main men on this forum can enlighten us.

[EpilepticSceptic]

Dr. Hasson hands you a little counter with a button on it. Every time he gets to 100 holes you press the button. I thought this was really cool because it involves the patient in the procedure which increases the trust factor IMO. Plus I think it helps him out so he can just get into his zone without having to be the only one keeping track.

 

I declined the valium, and I was fully alert for every aspect of the procedure. I definitely heard, saw, and counted 4496 holes created in my scalp; you could see the reflection in the glass where the blade was going in every time, as well as hear the crunches. There was really no way to fake it without being obvious.

 

I took hi res close-up photos that night of the recipient area and there was indeed hair/hairs emerging from every hole, no empty ones! The first night the holes are still open and have not yet shrunk/healed, so this is easy to verify. Not that I needed to because I had complete trust; I just wanted to make sure none had fallen out.

 

Now if a doc didn't hand me that counter and involve me in the procedure like Hasson did, I might very well have my suspicions if the graft count was indeed true. Food for thought.

[Tsakalos]

Dr. Hasson hands you a little counter with a button on it. Every time he gets to 100 holes you press the button. I thought this was really cool because it involves the patient in the procedure which increases the trust factor IMO. Plus I think it helps him out so he can just get into his zone without having to be the only one keeping track.

 

I declined the valium, and I was fully alert for every aspect of the procedure. I definitely heard, saw, and counted 4496 holes created in my scalp; you could see the reflection in the glass where the blade was going in every time, as well as hear the crunches. There was really no way to fake it without being obvious.

 

I took hi res close-up photos that night of the recipient area and there was indeed hair/hairs emerging from every hole, no empty ones! The first night the holes are still open and have not yet shrunk/healed, so this is easy to verify. Not that I needed to because I had complete trust; I just wanted to make sure none had fallen out.

 

Now if a doc didn't hand me that counter and involve me in the procedure like Hasson did, I might very well have my suspicions if the graft count was indeed true. Food for thought.

 

Ok at every 100 recipient holes u were clicking the counter button once right ? so the doc sais 300-400 etc and u click and so on. But how do u know that every clicking represents 100 holes and not 70 for example. Its impossible to count the scabs after u know, and also how do u know that each recipient hole (no matter what the number) is being filled with a follicular unit ? and finally how can u know that the total graft number of 3000 grafts that u pay, represents 3000 Extracted grafts and not 2000 extracted grafts (for example) that have been splitted to become 3000 ?

 

Unfortunately u can not know any of these unless u have a couple of camera man guys filming the whole operation. And u know that. Dr. Woods is the first doc who started using a video in high mangification in the surgery where the patient can Exactly see one by one the FUE grafts being removed.

[EpilepticSceptic]

Ok at every 100 recipient holes u were clicking the counter button once right ? so the doc sais 300-400 etc and u click and so on. But how do u know that every clicking represents 100 holes and not 70 for example. Its impossible to count the scabs after u know, and also how do u know that each recipient hole (no matter what the number) is being filled with a follicular unit ? and finally how can u know that the total graft number of 3000 grafts that u pay, represents 3000 Extracted grafts and not 2000 extracted grafts (for example) that have been splitted to become 3000 ?

 

Unfortunately u can not know any of these unless u have a couple of camera man guys filming the whole operation. And u know that. Dr. Woods is the first doc who started using a video in high mangification in the surgery where the patient can Exactly see one by one the FUE grafts being removed.

 

 

 

Tsakalos,

 

I don't think you understood all of what I wrote fully. How did I know there were 100 holes every time Dr. H told me to click the counter ?

 

Because: 1) I could clearly see the tool being inserted into my skin in the window reflection 2) I could hear a "crunch" each time it was inserted 3) I could hear him counting each hole, and I was also counting them myself

 

So if he would have only made 70 holes and told me it was 100 it would have been ridiculously obvious because I was paying close attention. Unless he had some type of button on that tool that made the blade retract without me knowing (lol), then it was impossible for an attentive patient not to notice.

 

Now as far as grafts being split by the techs to inflate the count, I have no way of knowing that -- but I don't suspect that to have happened. They even showed me my strips under the microscopes and it was clear that I had a majority of 2 haired grafts.

 

Cameras is the operating room ? I dunno, that sounds a little extreme to me.

[Tsakalos]

so u were watching the tool from the window reflection ???? and u could hear a crunch at every hole , u werent talking with ur doctor at all or watching a movie etc and with all the noise there u could still be sure that the cruches u hear are equal to the graft count u paid for ? while u were paying close attention doesnt mean that all people do. For example i didnt becouse i had trust to my doctor based on my internet research. I didnt make any close ups pics after the surgery for the same reason. I probably should have. My point is, that there is NO way of knowing exactly that u had what u are told u had no matter which clinic/doctor u went, u can not count 4000 crunches, u can not see if all these recipient holes have all grafts and u can not know if the grafts have been manipulated / splitted .

 

Of course u can not have a cameraman in the surgery room, nor u can request for the doc to count for u 4000 holes and show u that ALL these 4000 holes have been filled with 4000 INTACT follicular units, so its a just a matter of trust. And u know what, trust can easily been turned into suspicion where the experience doesnt turn out to be as expected.

Edited June 28, 2010 by Tsakalos

[EpilepticSceptic]

so u were watching the tool from the window reflection ???? and u could hear a crunch at every hole , u werent talking with ur doctor at all or watching a movie etc and with all the noise there u could still be sure that the cruches u hear are equal to the graft count u paid for ? while u were paying close attention doesnt mean that all people do. For example i didnt becouse i had trust to my doctor based on my internet research. I didnt make any close ups pics after the surgery for the same reason. I probably should have. My point is, that there is NO way of knowing exactly that u had what u are told u had no matter which clinic/doctor u went, u can not count 4000 crunches, u can not see if all these recipient holes have all grafts and u can not know if the grafts have been manipulated / splitted .

 

Of course u can not have a cameraman in the surgery room, nor u can request for the doc to count for u 4000 holes and show u that ALL these 4000 holes have been filled with 4000 INTACT follicular units, so its a just a matter of trust. And u know what, trust can easily been turned into suspicion where the experience doesnt turn out to be as expected.

 

 

Tsakalos,

 

 

I'm serious when I say I counted along with him, every last hole! I didn't choose the screen name "Epileptic Skeptic" for nothing bruddha (lol). I don't even trust my own mother, so that should tell you a little something about me.

 

And the holes are clearly visible post surgery that night and the next day. You can see if hairs are in there or not, it isn't that difficult. With today's digital cameras you can even photograph hi res close-ups showing all the holes.

 

But you are probably right in that if a doc/clinic really wants to pull the wool over your eyes over graft count, then there's probably 1000 other ways they can do it that you'll never know about. That's why I chose a successful surgeon who appears to be doing quite well financially; I figured if somebody like this was worried about cheating me out of 500 grafts then he/she must be a real cheapskate counting pennies. On the other hand, I could see if a clinic is struggling to make ends meat that they might just do such a thing.

 

And I had no interest in movies either. I wanted to be aware of every last little detail going on. It's very important to keep your head completely still, both during the making of the holes and the graft insertion. The last thing you want is for some movie to make you laugh at the wrong time.

 

The girls kept asking me if I was comfortable, and I kept telling them "don't worry about me, I want YOU to be comfortable." I could have cared less about my comfort. So I let them play the music they wanted to hear and they really felt at ease with me. Very important to keep the girls happy IMO!

Edited June 28, 2010 by EpilepticSceptic

[ukbloke]

So, like many of the personal, business patient/doctor etc relationships we enter into in life, there has to be an element of TRUST. One good thing is that at least on here pictures are being posted with number of grafts, which can give us a good idea of how for example 3000 grats should look in the frontal third, give or take.

[Tsakalos]

If for example u get all grafts into the frontal area. and the area is slick bald u have a good idea of whats going there . However when the transplant is used to spread grafts all over to a head of hair that it already has natural and or transplanted hair its impossible to know whether the graft number is accurate or not.

[Sparky]

I was trying to count, but it was too much for me as I had 1 tablet of valium and was pretty relaxed. I asked for the valium by the way, as I was in the chair for a very long time.

[Dr. William Lindsey]

Several doctors, including me, have the techs complete a worksheet during the case. At the end of the day, I collect the worksheets, tally up the 1s 2s and 3s and show the results to the patient as we review all the pics taken during that day. If we are running late and the patient's ride is waiting, we might not get to do that til day 7 when sutures come out, but almost always we do that before the patient leaves the day of surgery. That allows the patient to know what was actually done, and also may affect the total price as well.

 

Counting crunches is impossible, plus how does the patient know that all the holes were filled; or that more than one graft were not placed in a single slit?

 

To some extent, trust is involved. I try to make our office as transparent as possible, but short of having a film crew film all the techs and slits--closeup--there is no absolute way of proving graft count etc.

 

Getting to that basic trust factor is part of the PREOP evaluation that all patients should do.

 

Dr. Lindsey McLean VA

[TheEmperor]

I dont remember any crunching noises in either of my procedures.

[Bill - Seemiller]

I remember hearing and "feeling" (pressure only, no pain) every crunch and I used the clicker after every 100 crunches. I have no reason to believe I received anything less than the number of grafts I paid for and in my opinion, neither should any patient who undergoes surgery with one of our recommended physicians. I firmly believe that every physician recommended by this community has the best interest of the patient in mind and above all else, wants them to be satisfied with their results.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill Seemiller

[gentel_man83]

Thanks Bill for your post. Actually i didn't mean any of the physicans either recommended by this community or not, but i wanted to know if there is a way to figure it, especially that most of the patients live 6 months of tension after the op.

Sorry i didn't get you when you mentioned " I used the clicker after every 100 crunches ", why did you use it ?

 

Regards,

Edited July 1, 2010 by gentel_man83

[Bill - Seemiller]

gentel_man83,

 

My reply was more directed to a few other posts on this topic above, in particular, the part about the clicker used to count the holes. If you read several posts above mine, you'll see what I'm referring to.

 

Regarding how you verify how many grafts you received, unless you bring a friend to audit, it really comes down to trusting your physician is honest, ethical and has your best interest in mind.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill