EpilepticSceptic

Taking finasteride is probably the most important thing you can do, probably even more important than the HT itself for the long haul. Unfortunately I feel many around here will have to learn this the hard way ! 10 years will go by in a flash and feel like 1 year; then you'll look in the mirror one day and realize that you've advanced 2 full NW stages that you could likely have avoided by simply taking this pill every day. That equates to about 5000/8000 grafts lost. I feel that in the not too distant future we will see maybe another website pop up where hundreds of guys who got HTs in their late 20s/ early 30s (but failed to stay on finasteride) will be in their early 40s and cursing the day they ever sat in the HT chair, wishing they could just go bald naturally !

This is really a GREAT, well thought out post and I have to agree with it. Unfortunately, many newbies to the HT community don't have enough research years under their belt to realize that they are talking online with docs who were part of pioneering the very advances in the HT field that we come to take for granted. Every single day countless less fortunate victims are butchered by sub par HT docs/clinics because they were not smart (or lucky) enough to find this website. We are talking about things like pitting, cobblestoning, doll's hair minigrafts, absurdly low hairlines, ungodly stretched scars, and the list goes on and on. IMO after reading more of Dr. Feller's posts I become more impressed with him; I say this because he's brutally honest and places everything on the table. The is exactly the type of honesty that newbies should be looking for IMO when researching HTs -- it may actually convince you to NOT get a HT at all, which for many (especially the 25 and younger crowd) might years later be realized as the best thing that never happened to them. I must say that I agree with just about everything Dr. Feller wrote in his many posts here. The "risk" factor applies to ANY type of surgery and should not be overlooked. You can take any 2 patients who need, let's say, a surgery to remove cancer from thier colon. Ask any doctor in this field if he/she can guaruntee success and/or that results will not vary between different patients and see the answer you will get. People here need to remember that these are doctors and they have the practical experience of having performed surgery on thousands of patients over the span of many years; so they have personally been able to witness how the "physiology" factor is a very real thing and that, even under the best circumstances, some patients will not get the results that others get even though characterisitcs may have looked very favorable pre-surgery. I recently had a minor dental surgery to save a tooth that looked very near beyond hope on the Xray for anything other than a full blown root canal. I remember the dentist REPEATEDLY warning me that chances weren't even as good as 50/50 but he would give it a try anyway. I was lucky as it turned out successful, but there were no guaruntees and he was emphatic about stressing that point. I think we are very lucky that the top HT docs are not charging double or even triple the amount they are asking. In the old days I believe it was like $30 per graft for doll hair plugs. If that was in 1980 then that would be more like $100 per graft today. Do the math and tell me that we are not very, very lucky today that excellent docs/clinics are out there with rates that we can actually afford !

C'mon man, give Lorenzo a break here. Yes, he does come accross a bit like a bulldog at times -- but I think he is a well intended, honest bulldog. Dude, it's obvious to me that you are a Rahal cheeleader. That's fine, as you should be cause he was your doc and your results are good. He's a great doc with a great staff -- no question in my mind about that. But for some reason by reading your posts I'm convinced that if this thread was about Rahal your tone would not be much different from Lorenzo's. You (and Hariri) seem to think of Rahal in the same way that Lorenzo thinks of Hasson. I don't really see you guys questioning Rahal's staff and techs. And c'mon dude, Hariri's comments were a craftily worded "low blow" to the good doctor H and his staff; and I (or Lorenzo) weren't the only ones who picked up on that BTW. I remember in the old days on HTN people would often take it real personal if they had great results from a doc and somebody started taking slags at them; I didn't really understand that back then, but now (after having a HT) it makes more sense. If your experience at that clinic was top notch in every way and the results really great then when peeple come on and start slinging the mud it just doesn't sit well with you. Consider that Lorenzo has likely seen many hundreds of HT cases up close and personal at the H & W clinic over the years; so it's obvious that he has alot more practical knowledge about HTs than either you or I do.

This is a ridiculous post. It's amazing the broad sweeping statements people can make sometimes on this forum without having any legitimate knowledge concerning what they are talking about! When I had my surgery with Dr. H there was a MASTER tech (her name is Jodi) who has been working with him for 15 YEARS !!! To me she was Jedi Jodi ! She was indeed a take charge kind of gal, and she obviously knew what she was doing to such a degree that she seemed more like a doctor than a tech to me. The other tech had over 7 years at the clinic, and these were the two techs that worked tirelessly on me for 8 hours implanting my grafts. To highlight just how important a MASTER tech is in a complex procedure like this, I remember very early on when they first started planting she told Dr. H that some of the holes were too small and he needed to slightly increase the blade size because her "feel" was being thrown off a bit. And it wasn't that Dr. H made a mistake either; he sized up (by eye) my grafts and made custom blades to fit, just like he had done thousands of X before. But something about my skin/physiology was throwing off her very delicate feel, and she KNEW this instinctively because she's been doing it for 15 years !! So right away he made the adjustment; this was also in the very beginning when only a small set of holes had been made. This helped me realize the importance of a master tech, because you CANNOT expect any human being or doctor to be completely perfect or psychic. It has to be a TEAM effort. It was really great watching her and the doctor interact because she spoke to him like a peer instead of a mere employee, and you could see that he has tremendous respect and appreciation for her valuable skills. It was my impression that the master tech is like another doctor in the room who has a specific expertise based on many years of experience, and she/he will double check everything and make sure all is done to the highest standard. I think you also have to look at the numbers when it comes to a clinic like H & W. There are 2 great docs at that clinic, and they are booked solid for months in advance (and it's been that way for many years). If the techs were really hit and miss then IMO there would be a disgruntled patient popping up every other week. But this is simply not the case.

Thought I'd stay out of this one until we saw some more objective photos of NotHappy's results; but some of the mudslinging and hysteria directed towards H & W's reputation just hit a nerve with me. Emperor's comments are predictable, so I won't spend any time debating with him. He has ALOT of theories concerning how he would have received better results at other clinics, or even with Dr. H instead of Wong. At the end of the day they are just that, theories, because he hasn't had any work done elsewhere so how could he know if what he is saying is true ? The bottom line is that if you have had success with THOUSANDS of patients over a period of many years then why should a clinic question its' methodology ? Concerning NotHappy's situation, I think most people here are missing the giant elephant in the room. And that is this: WHY is it that he waited until 2 years post-HT to come on here with guns blazing straight out of the gate ? Doesn't that strike any of you as odd ? So you invest $14K in a HT to get shoddy work repaired, and then it takes 2 full years to realize that you had 30% growth, contact the clinic to express concerns, and when you feel like they won't recognize what you see as a failure you decide then to go on a rampage against that clinic ? And in the process you remove photos from your blog that portray a MUCH different perspective of the outcome of your HT (taken 12 months previous), and your excuse for that is that you were attempting to state you had toppik on (which looks suspect IMO) and because you were on an Iphone you "accidentally" removed them ?? IMO the odds that he accidentally removed those pics are probably about 1 out of 500; anybody with half a brain can see that he most likely intentionally removed them because they did not support his agenda. Folks, I am not trying to be accusatory here but I AM trying to simply be objective; NotHappy has told other lies as well (like that ALL 2695 grafts were in the front third ONLY), so why should any of us believe that he would tell the truth about the supposed toppik photos ?? IMO none of us here should form an opinion one way or the other until NotHappy visits H & W and we can (hopefully) see some truly objective photos of his condition. Again, why would he (or anybody else for that matter) wait a full 2 years to express discontent with his HT ? Most of us who have gone thru with this will recognize failure WAY before the 2 year mark. I know if my results looked like his 2 year pics at 8-12 months then I would have expressed my concerns at that time. Something just doesn't add up here. The fact that, even after he attacked the clinic very publicly, they are willing to fly him up there to get to the bottom of this I think says alot about how much they care about their patients and reputation.

bro, I know it's not the end of the world; I endured it for well over 17 years up til now. It never slowed me down or stopped me from getting chicks because I simply refused to let it do that to me. But it did indeed cause me alot of pain and made courting women ALOT more difficult than it should have been. I've had quite a few relationships with very hot women over the years, some very painful and others not so much. But in every single case (including the current one) the balding definitely created complications that would have otherwise not been there. When you are with a chick who KNOWS how hot she is then you cannot fault her for using that to her advantage -- it's simply the way the female mind works IMO, and it doesn't mean that they are evil or malicious. Even the sweetest, nicest ladies I have been with (with hearts of gold) always seem to have this premeditated vision of "prince charming", and he usually has at least NW2 hair. They may love you with all of their heart, but that doesn't mean that they are not thinking of "prince charming" in their mind whilst they are in the sack with YOU! For most women, love has NOTHING to do with sex; there is usually a certain level of pragmatism involved in their view of love, hence the search for a mate who has a career, stability, etc. But when it comes to SEX they are thinking of something totally different. Most men, on the other hand, associate love with sex and in many cases cannot even learn to love a woman UNTIL a certain level of sexual fulfillment is involved. Then they will learn to endure alot of heartache and headaches caused by the woman because they cannot escape the addiction to the sex -- if it is good. Anyway, these are my views from many years of experience in many different relationships.

Ha Ha ! I'm glad I am not the only one who has thought this way about obesity. It's funny because alot of people feel sympathy for the fat women who can't control their eating habits and who sit like beached whales on a couch in front of a TV set. But IT'S THEIR OWN FRICKIN FAULT THAT THEY ARE FAT !!!! jesus man, how easy would that be if we could grow our hair back simply by adopting a healthy diet and excercising every day !!! I'd bet my left nut that every single guy on this forum would endure the harshest boot camp imaginable (with a big smile on their face the whole time) if it would just grow their hair back. You simply CANNOT compare genetic hairloss to obesity. :cool:

I couldn't agree more. I find it funny that some of the men on this forum have made comments (and even started threads) about how women are less focused on appearence than men and less superficial, and can even find baldness attractive. Then when you look at the photos of the men saying this they either a) still have alot of hair left or b) have undergone a HT procedure because they simply couldn't tolerate the baldness stigma In my real world experience I have found it to be completely the opposite; women are 1000 times more superficial and focused on appearence than are men, both concerning their own looks and their boyfriends/husbands/sex partners. I have often seen bald/balding guys willing to sink to the lowest and most debased levels of depravity imaginable just to get laid, whereas even the ugliest and filthiest hags seem to have much more of an easy time finding sex partners and seem to be able to choose more willingly who they'd like to be with. Yes, there are many examples of attractive women with bald/balding men; but, like I've said before, look closer and you might discover that the picture is not really so rosy after all. Gold diggers are around every corner, and being in the entertainment biz I have come accross COUNTLESS jaded, bitter bald guys who bought the big diamond ring for the hot fashion model only to find themselves (often just 6 months to 2 years later) on the losing end of a bitter divorce -- in some cases even AFTER it was the wife who was discovered cheating on them with (GUESS WHO ?) that good looking guy with a FULL head of HAIR !!! Again, it's a lose/lose situation and when you get a good bit of your hair back with a HT you suddenly and unexpectedly feel a strange sense of justice. :eek:

Even in a committed relationship baldness can still be a significant problem IMO. For example, before getting this HT and seeing it grow out if I ever mentioned to my girl that she was getting a bit chubby (and suggesting, very nicely, that we go bike riding more together) she would just get defensive and IMMEDIATELY mention my hairloss. The insinuation was obvious -- "how could YOU, Mr. Baldy, have anything to say about my weight. How dare you !" How ironic it is that nowadays she has been riding the bike without me even having to ask. You see, this is how the female mind works; if she feels she "has you" locked in, she may very well feel comfortable in letting herself go and not caring about her looks any more. But if she feels THREATENED by other women (especially younger ones) being attracted to you, she WILL focus on looking good and keeping you stimulated. This is why I often laugh at guys on here who claim they see bald/balding guys with hot chicks all the time -- they have NO IDEA about what goes on in those relationships behind closed doors. Many of those guys could be in a living hell situation. When you get a little older like me you have already been thru alot of this so you have the bigger picture to look at, and the harsh truth is that baldness will ALWAYS be some type of disadvantage !!! It's a lose/lose situation no matter how much anybody tries to spin it.

jesus christ mate !!! that's about as dramatic of a transformation as it gets i don't think he lost any weight either; i'm noticing that i look like i lost weight too, but it's really just the facial framing that creates this effect this guy was the perfect HT candidate IMO; i say this because he payed his dues and spent time in the REAL MPB PIT so he knows what total depravity feels like. because of this he wont mind that the crown is still a bit thin and his hairline is not as dense as Brad Pitt -- he's happy just to be out of the pit

Yeah, I was one of those guys who had the right head shape for a shaved head too. I doned it (off and on) from age 25 to age 41 but always felt like a slave to the razor machine. Chicks were mostly the ones who would say "you look so much better with the shaved head"; but looking back I realize that was just them being polite because they thought I looked utterly ridiculous when i let it grow out some. And they would always (about 99.9% of the time) be walking out with some dweebish looking dude who was at least a solid NW 2 or less. Dude, I have absolutely no regrets and now rate my decision to get this HT as one of the best things I have ever done for myself in my whole life! It is NOT my imagination that women are turning their heads and smiling at me MUCH more often now than they did before; it is plainly obvious because pre-25 when I still had decent hair I was a lady killer and remember those days very, very well. It was so frickin easy because I didn't look like some stupid old geezer, or that guy with the shaved head who is obviously just trying to hide the fact he is balding badly. Yes, I definitely had the right head shape for the shaved look -- yet it did me no favors from what I can remember of those sad days. :eek:

Wow, this thread is getting pretty heated ! IMO we have seen this before and we will almost certainly see it again, guys with severe balding and large areas to cover whose expectations are way out of line and who expect to have rock star hair with 2500 grafts spread over a NW5/6 area. Then, when the final results are in and expectations are not met they suddenly only remember the clinic/doc promising them the stars and forget all of the sobering warnings given by the doc and staff. I know for a fact that H & W are brutally honest in their assessments during consultation and give very sobering warnings of what to expect, because I have been thru those doors myself. I am quite fortunate that my results have turned out better IMO than what they predicted for me. The problem I have with NotHappy is that he makes so many contradictory statements that it's hard to believe that he is being completely honest. He says in his blog that he received 2695 grafts ONLY in the front third, yet the post op photos clearly show he is not telling the truth here. Then he goes on to say he is angry because he cannot shave his head anymore as a result of this surgery, yet he is a repair patient so he had already lost that option BEFORE going to H & W. And then the removed photos where he claims he used dermatch, but to me (and many others) it looks very suspect. If he did use dermatch it had to be very, very little. Bottom line is that he is not happy though, so I do indeed feel for him. Most repair patients who were butchered by a sub par clinic will very likely have a difficult road to travel and never arrive at where they wanted to be before they stepped in the HT ring -- this is just the sad, sobering reality for patients who don't do their research from the start. I hope he can post some new photos where he attempts to style his hair properly and we can all see if it looks good or not.

The clincher for me was that photo showing where 2685 grafts were spread over a VERY large area, yet NotHappy claims it was just the front third which is obviously a lie. And then you have the fact that the hair looks to be perfectly straight and the contrast ratio is worst case scenario. Taking all of this into consideration one can clearly see in those photos Not Happy deleted that his result was up to par for the # of grafts received and large area covered. I hate to sound accusatory, but I think he's trying to use the forum to get some free grafts to increase his density even though his result was what should be expected considering his poor traits. Newbies need to understand that in most cases you will need ALOT of grafts to get a decent, natural looking result that will please you -- especially if your hair is straight with no wave and brown/black upon pale white skin. The 1/2 of original density (40 per sq cm) that many docs say is good enough is IMO largely misleading for the front third area, unless the look you are going for is an old geezer with a whispy combover ! Dr. H says "density is everything" and after going thru with this I can see that he is absolutely correct. This is also why by far the most important thing you can do before considering a HT is to take finasteride and try to preserve as much hair as possible.

You're the best possible candidate for a HT IMO. I had second thoughts all the way up to the walk along the sidewalk before entering the building the day before surgery. It came down to a coin flip for me. I picked heads and threw the coin to the pavement and voila, there was the queen's head; I threw it down again and again and it came up heads 4 more times before it came up tails the 6th time. I knew I had to go thru with it from that point on and could finally relax ! :cool:

I tell this to most all the guys who feel the way you do because, let's face it, 99.9% of the guys who fear fin side effects have not yet experienced any major cosmetically significant balding. There is a terror of a much greater magnitude than what you are feeling, and that is looking in the mirror one day and seeing an old man when you really are 15-20 years younger than you look. MPB is a ruthless demonic vampire whose single goal is to finish you off; and it WILL finish you off without taking the finasteride -- it's really that simple my friend !!