EpilepticSceptic

Dude, 1st of all, take a step back and thank your lucky stars you found this forum BEFORE undergoing any transplant! Now, with that said, any HT clinic trying to sell you on laser treatment and steering you away from propecia (ESPECIALLY at age 22) is a scam -- period !!! 22 is a very young age for a HT. Most of the ethical clinics that do great work will not even perform a HT on a 22 year old, especially if you are not on propecia. So that should tell you something right there. You should spend at least 6 months on this forum (and others) researching about HTs before undergoing any procedure. It is the most complicated cosmetic procedure out there today, and only very few clinics can do it correctly. Plus you need to be aware of what can go wrong down the line even if your first HT is a great one. Tell your parents to look at this website with you. HTs are NOT the simple solution they are packaged as today by the scammers. MANY have been butchered and lives have been ruined, so you do not want to be the next victim!

OK guys, Yeah, the rotten teeth comment was a little over the top -- I agree. But there are many fat women (300-400 lbs.) out there who exude confidence from within. Are you 2 guys ready to ask any of them for a date ? I'm sure there are also fat women forums where fat women tell each other that self confidence will help them overcome being fat. And I'm sure some of those fat women think they deserve a boyfriend/husband who looks like Brad Pitt with a full head of hair. Seek and ye shall find. I still contend that balding (in the eyes of most women) is equivalent to being a fat woman in the eyes of men. And I've got many years of experience at the age of 41.

I feel the same way when I see a fat chick with rotten teeth. "wow, must suck to be her" and then go about my business. Do you or I want to ask that chick for a date ? Same applies to baldies in the eyes of sexy women. To them you are like the fat chick with rotten teeth. Yes, they don't care about your appearence; and they don't care about you either, so much so that you probably couldn't pay them $100 just to kiss their ass! They'll reserve that privilege for a guy with hair!

usedandabused, Just curious, why did you go for a HT as a NW2 ? Did you want to go to NW1 or NW0 ? Also, what is your age and were you diffuse thinning pre-HT ?

Good luck bro, although you won't likely need it in Dr. Hasson's hands. Just remember that the post-HT period is a long, hard waiting game. I'm nearing 2 months post-op from a Dr. H megasession, and all I can say is the doldrums are no fun and every minute feels like an hour, and every day feels like a month. I suggest to make sure you sleep really well the night before surgery, take a valium or sleeping pill if necessary. It's a long day and the recovery period immediately post-op is not necessarily easy. Your travel pillow they give you will become your best friend! Also, make sure you hit the food store down the block from the Sheraton the night BEFORE surgery! Buy enough stuff so you don't have to leave the hotel room; they have a small fridge in the room so it's no problem. If you hit the Denny's down the block from H & W for breakfast on surgery day, don't make the mistake I did and just get a couple of eggs. Go full hog for a hearty breakfast because once that anesthetic kicks in and you're lying face down during donor strip removal, you don't want to come as close as I did to barfing all over Dr. H's shoes. That stuff really increases your heartbeat and if your stomach is near empty (like mine was) who knows what could happen. I came pretty close and it was a burp that saved me, which is a moment I'm sure he remembers as I had to lift my body up off the table to get it out. He had no clue where I was at, but it was damn close to really messing up the whole day! If you need any more info. or support feel free to shoot me a PM.

what were the sides ?

Yeah, well every last word of it is the truth. I think MHR & Bosley probably have more ethics than DHI. Oh yeah, and they played the ol switcharoo on me too. It's been so long that I forgot to ad that. Originally my doc was supposed to be Dr. Pompanopolous (or something like that, I'd have to dig up the HLH thread it's been so fricking long). I was studying his work for months and it seemed to be pretty good. Then I get there and he's nowhere to be found, and they told me to not worry because the implanter tool is fault free and it didn't matter who operated it. This was after they had promised me beforehand that Dr. P would be my surgeon. I'm actually glad he wasn't there because he may have wrecked my donor with that stupid tool anyway.

On another forum in 2005 (HLH) I was the one selected out of hundreds of people who applied to get a free 2000 FU surgery at DHI in Athens. They flew me all the way from the USA and paid for all of it. They had some fashion model looking young woman pick me up at the airport and drive me to my hotel. I remember her telling me to get some sleep because tomorrow would be a busy day, and in my mind I was thinking "what the hell have you gotten yourself into ? ". When I got there they couldn't show me one halfway decent FUE result. I saw 2 patients and the work was a joke, looked pluggy and SCREAMED HT !!! Another guy from the UK I met in the elevator was scared, miserable and suicidal about what he suffered at the hands of DHI; but he was there to get "repaired" because he was out of money and had no other option. I have often wondered what became of him, and I sincerely hope he didn't jump off of a bridge. They held me at the main office for over 4 hours and would not accept that I decided to back out. They tried every form of coersion to FORCE me to get in that chair, I guess cause their reputation was on the line. I'm one tough mo fo, so no amount of sales pitch was going to convince me to lt those hacks butcher up my virgin head! At one point I got up and leaped to the door and 2 thugs/sales reps tried to stop me. Then the main mafia dude who runs the clinic cursed me out in greek and gave me a look like he wanted to kill me, then ORDERED me to vacate immediately. "GET OUT OF HERE" is what I remembered him shouting at me, which was indeed music to my ears !!

Well, at 41 I've never been married and have no kids that I know about, so that should tell you a little something about me. Peeps usually guess my age to be around 30-35 and alot of my friends are in the 22-30 range. That comes with the territory being a performer. If I had a wife and 2 kids would I still care about my hairloss ? Tough to say, but I would be inclined to think it would be no different -- maybe even worse. Alot of guys feel trapped in marriages these days, especially with kids. I've never met one who was truly happy and who wasn't constantly thinking about other women, especially the young ones. I think your dick would have to be dead in the dirt to ever feel like looking your best didn't matter. Plus, what happens when the kiddies have grown up, you're pushing 50 and the wife no longer has any interest in sex ? Do you think you won't have a serious mid life crisis ? Look at alot of the men 50-70 having HTs on the top doc websites and you'll see what I mean!

Well, you're lucky then dude to be 6' 2" ! If there's one thing worse than balding with chicks it's being short. Even fat beats short and bald. Concerning celebs like Vin Deisel, what do you think he looks like in every day reality ? You might truly be suprised. That's the problem peeps on the forum have with comparing themselves to bald/balding celebrities. You could take any one of them (Vin Deisel, Statham, Bruce Willis, etc) and if they had never appeared in a movie they'd be just another faceless baldie in the crowd who couldn't get a date. You simply CANNOT compare yourself to any celeb because chicks will dig them for no other reason than the fame; if the media says they are cool then the chicks will follow, simple as that! 99.9% of chicks are sheep, they follow the mainstream trends and feel obligated to do so. Do you think that the dweebiest looking bald guys in Hollywood have problems getting hot babes ? No way Jose, they have $ and fame. George Castanza is likely banging some playboy bunny as I write this! The problem I had with the shaved look is that you have to look buff and mean to pull it off, like Vin Deisel. But in every day life you might end up looking like a leather fag or some Tapout freak. The other option is that you look like some celibate castrated monk, or maybe an egghead alien. None of these fit my personality so I really hated it!

D, Just man up and do it bro! Shave it down today or tomorrow, it's no big deal really. One thing is for sure: there is only one way to know if you can live with a shaved head, and that is just to DO IT !! Trust me, you WILL know within a couple of days if you like it or not. Go out to the mall or some place where lots of chicks hang out and see if you get any attention. If they look at you like you're an old man then you will know quickly if you can live with it or not. You'll know that look -- her eyes meet yours, glance up to the head for a split second, and then quickly dart away to the side in an obvious effort to completely ignore you. So many peeps on here CLAIM they wish they could shave it down, but they haven't ever done it so what could they know ? Sparky, no offense but you're a NW2 who never needed a HT, so what could you know ? I did it for 10 years (off and on) and always hated it, even though my head shape works for it. It also makes you 2-3 inches shorter and I'm only 5'8". For every 50 men I see who look like studs with NW2 hair, 49 would look like complete dweebs shaved and 1 would look merely decent. You just simply have to do it and see how it feels. If you're lucky you'll look like Yul Brenner and never look back. But he's 1 out of a million!

D, Well, if you're diffuse thinning then that gene has to come from somewhere. I'd look into great grand dads maybe ? Small head is a very good thing. I realized after my procedure that if you take a tape measure and figure out the areas to be covered you can get a more solid idea. I'm not a diffuse thinner though, so i had specific bald areas to cover (front and small crown spot). Once you realize that a 12" long 2cm strip is being cut out of your head, you can sort of then just imagine the strip being cut into chunks (like sushi -- lol) to fill in the bald spaces. If you have enough of these chunks to cover it all then you should have great density once grown in. I was an early NW4 BTW. Been that way for a buncha years and have a 50 year old brother who is the same. Recently looking at his head really helped me make the final decision knowing I should have at least another 10 years before any suprises pop up. It's really a numbers game once you know the skill of the doc & staff is up to snuff. If all my grafts grow I should look pretty damn good ! To be honest I don't think I'd consider a HT without finasteride, but that's just me. If my hair was still thinning badly and I had no control over it I think a HT would really just add to the stress down the line. Fin has worked really good for me for many years. Yes, I have watery semen but that's the trade-off IMO. I have no ED, brain fog, or any of that crap. Besides, past 40 most men in my family have prostate issues -- so I need a DHT inhibitor anyway to avoid that crap! Yeah, 32 is still somewhat of a youngin IMO. I guess maybe cause I'm getting old !!!! Yeah right, not really. I've still got the mind of a 15 year old at 41.

Tsakalos, I'm serious when I say I counted along with him, every last hole! I didn't choose the screen name "Epileptic Skeptic" for nothing bruddha (lol). I don't even trust my own mother, so that should tell you a little something about me. And the holes are clearly visible post surgery that night and the next day. You can see if hairs are in there or not, it isn't that difficult. With today's digital cameras you can even photograph hi res close-ups showing all the holes. But you are probably right in that if a doc/clinic really wants to pull the wool over your eyes over graft count, then there's probably 1000 other ways they can do it that you'll never know about. That's why I chose a successful surgeon who appears to be doing quite well financially; I figured if somebody like this was worried about cheating me out of 500 grafts then he/she must be a real cheapskate counting pennies. On the other hand, I could see if a clinic is struggling to make ends meat that they might just do such a thing. And I had no interest in movies either. I wanted to be aware of every last little detail going on. It's very important to keep your head completely still, both during the making of the holes and the graft insertion. The last thing you want is for some movie to make you laugh at the wrong time. The girls kept asking me if I was comfortable, and I kept telling them "don't worry about me, I want YOU to be comfortable." I could have cared less about my comfort. So I let them play the music they wanted to hear and they really felt at ease with me. Very important to keep the girls happy IMO!

D, Yeah, the same holds true for FUT. I wasn't implying anything different either, just pointing out how FUE is far from risk free. To me the most important thing if you get any HT is to be conservative and make the best use of the limited grafts. See a few reputable surgeons in person 6 months before making a decision to move forward. You need to know approx. total # of donor grafts available, quality of grafts/hair texture, how big your head is, and worse case scenario plan. Many may discover that the worse case scenario is not what they wanted to sign up for, and not worth it -- sparse NW2/NW3 design and you'll still look balding but not bald. I was a bit lucky in that I have a small head. If your head is big then many more grafts will be needed to acheive the same look. Big head, fine straight hair texture, low donor density, family history of NW6/7, and no meds is basically the disaster scenario for most HT patients, strip or FUE. The good clinics turn patients like this down left and right. Spend a little time talking to HT vets/repair patients and you'll learn quite alot about what can go wrong down the line. That's what I did over a 5 year period before I got my HT. BTW did you ever post any pics of your hairloss ?

Tsakalos, I don't think you understood all of what I wrote fully. How did I know there were 100 holes every time Dr. H told me to click the counter ? Because: 1) I could clearly see the tool being inserted into my skin in the window reflection 2) I could hear a "crunch" each time it was inserted 3) I could hear him counting each hole, and I was also counting them myself So if he would have only made 70 holes and told me it was 100 it would have been ridiculously obvious because I was paying close attention. Unless he had some type of button on that tool that made the blade retract without me knowing (lol), then it was impossible for an attentive patient not to notice. Now as far as grafts being split by the techs to inflate the count, I have no way of knowing that -- but I don't suspect that to have happened. They even showed me my strips under the microscopes and it was clear that I had a majority of 2 haired grafts. Cameras is the operating room ? I dunno, that sounds a little extreme to me.

D, I've been around the forums for over 5 years now, and I've never heard of FUE patients being able to shave down to bare skin in the donor area. With 3000+ grafts this will be even more true, it would likely be noticable. I think patient physiology plays a big part in this as well. Some photos I have seen of large FUE session scarring look pretty bad shaved to skin, sort of pock-marked or the buckshot blast look. Others look great but those are always not fully shaved down to bare skin. Another very valid concern that most seem to overlook with FUE (and any HT) is future hairloss. Alot of young guys go FUE with NW6/7 family history of hairloss, thinking that they'll have good hair in their 20s/30s and just shave it all down later. I think there is a huge misconception with this that will only be understood in the future when all these FUE guys get older and lose the rest. Some guys you see getting the hairline front loaded to NW0/1 using 1500-3000 grafts. When the hair behind that goes the patient will essentially have an expensive looking mustache of stubble that will be permanent, but bald bare skin behind it. IMO a strip scar would be like nirvana compared to this potential scenario. Imagine somebody going to a NW7, the sides drop and are bald bare skin, and they have this island of stubble on top in this weird pattern for which no equivalent in nature exists. Do you think people will not notice that ? Some think they can just shave it down daily to skin, but IMO you'll still see the stubble shadow clearly just like a shaved beard -- especially if the hair is dark and coarse. And you can't shave the back to skin because the scarring will show. Like I said, there just hasn't been enough time yet for these cases to materialize cause FUE is still so new. That's just my opinion, not trying to steer you either way.

Dr. Hasson hands you a little counter with a button on it. Every time he gets to 100 holes you press the button. I thought this was really cool because it involves the patient in the procedure which increases the trust factor IMO. Plus I think it helps him out so he can just get into his zone without having to be the only one keeping track. I declined the valium, and I was fully alert for every aspect of the procedure. I definitely heard, saw, and counted 4496 holes created in my scalp; you could see the reflection in the glass where the blade was going in every time, as well as hear the crunches. There was really no way to fake it without being obvious. I took hi res close-up photos that night of the recipient area and there was indeed hair/hairs emerging from every hole, no empty ones! The first night the holes are still open and have not yet shrunk/healed, so this is easy to verify. Not that I needed to because I had complete trust; I just wanted to make sure none had fallen out. Now if a doc didn't hand me that counter and involve me in the procedure like Hasson did, I might very well have my suspicions if the graft count was indeed true. Food for thought.

The way I see it, the devil created MPB as the ultimate form of torture for the male species. As it turns out DHT (a sex hormone) is the culprit. So the higher your sex drive the more likely you are to go bald. That's the devil's work for sure !!! And the very thing that will reduce your chances of getting laid (balding) is the same thing that gets your willy stiff. Take a pill to stop that and you'll keep your hair but no longer have any interest in getting laid (which IMO is the only purpose for wanting the hair anyway). So in the end you have 2 choices it seems: 1) don't take it and be a super horny, oversexed balding guy who can't get laid and has to jerk off to internet porn 2) take it and keep some of the hair, but have a limp willy everytime you're with a girl Oh wait, I forgot there's a 3rd option: fat chicks with yellow teeth, old hags over 60, or hookers They might as well hand you a gun along with the propecia script! :eek:

Danielkiwi, First of all, where did you get the following information: "it is a well known fact that finasteride loses its' effectiveness after 10+ years" ? As far as I know there have been no controlled medical studies to corroborate this statement; so if you are getting this info. from online forums (like propeciahelp.com) then the info. is skewed IMO. Let's not forget that finasteride is a prostate medication that's been around since the early 90s. There are many older (60+) men still taking it after nearly 20 years and who would otherwise have developed serious prostate conditions. Has it stopped working for them ? And how would you know that ? I've been on it for over 10 years now and it has essentially arrested my hairloss completely. I can show pictures from when I was age 30 and it's obvious that my hairloss was halted and the remaining hair in the MPB danger zone is quite healthy. Actually, the remaining hair in the MPB zone is healthier looking today than it was even 5 years ago -- so if anything the medication has been working better for me over time. Sides have always been the same from day 1, watery semen. This has not changed and remains consistent. Every case is different. When i said that propecia stopped working after "years" I meant several years (3-5), not 10+ years. Alot of guys will have it work good for the first 2-3 years and then the loss kicks in again and they lose alot of ground. I don't see too many posts on forums where people are generally pro-finasteride saying that the typical time frame for the medication's loss of effectiveness is the 10 year mark; come to think of it, I don't think I've seen even one. Then again, all HTs carry a risk. So does getting into a car and driving down the road to buy a pack of cigarettes -- you might just get into a wreck.

I agree and disagree with TheEmporer. Yes, the rim hair in many patients is of a much higher quality. In my case this was definitely true. My scar is not as high as these, but it definitely does follow the rim hair for which I am grateful. Who wants to spend big $ on a HT and end up with a thin looking combover result ? And yes, you will want to be on Proscar for the rest of your life. I've already been on it for 10+ years, so there's no issue there for me. I advocate that 99.9% of HT patients (strip or FUE) would be fools to not be committed to taking Proscar for the long term. The safest bet is to be on it for many years before any HT, and to know that it works and that sides are minimal and tolerable. If you are under 50 and have history of advanced balding on either side of your family, then either commit to taking Proscar for life or just go bald and forget about HTs -- period. That is my advice, to not save whatever hair you have is completely foolish. Where I disagree with Emporer is when he says removing a strip will make a crown bald spot larger. That has not been my experience at all. I'm near 1.5 months post-op from a large strip session and my bald spot has not become any larger. It was already pretty small (2" X 2"). Scalp geometry does change a bit, however. My whorl on my crown is different from most as it is positioned on the right/back side of my head. This did move a bit, but for me it's no big deal. I had a 2.0/2.5 X 30 cm strip removed on a small head, so if tissue stretching was indeed expanding the crown area than my bald spot should have enlarged -- but it did not. I think maybe in Emporer's case it just could have become more noticable if the geometry changed and it moved down a bit ? Also, one cannot rule out further MPB progression. I have seen guys who did great on Fin/Dut for years go from a NW5 to a NW6+ in less than 1 year, especially in the late 30s age bracket. That's why I say wait til at least 40s to get a HT, and only after being on Fin for 10 years and confirming that it has stopped the loss.

I've only told 2 people, my girlfriend of 10+ years and another balding friend who I sort of regret telling now cause we are not talking lately. I'm with Phil on this, keep it as secret as possible because it's personal. I actually plan on having some devilish fun with this when it all starts growing in. People in my home town are generally rather ignorant, and so they'll have absolutely no idea what's going on with me. There are a few particular familiar faces who are clearly losing their hair now, but who used to ridicule and tease me about my hairloss 10 years ago when they had full mops. One in particular (who was the loudest) is obviously distraught over his hairloss these days. I plan on having some real fun with these guys because they will most certainly notice that I suddenly have more hair than they do (they are VERY vain musicians!), and that roles have been reversed. When they ask me what's up I'll first probably just say Rogaine did it so that they'll waste many months on that crap. Then I might next say Saw Palmetto so they can waste another year. Then if they persist further I'll just come clean and say that it's all through meditation and that I have transcended the physical domain and entered the world of gurus, hence I just commanded my follicles to regenerate and they did. :eek: I even thought I might say Bosley, but I'm not quite that wicked!

Nate, Relax bro! I'm coming up on 5 weeks post-op and the shedding of hairs in the recipient area is perfectly normal. In my case they all fell out in 1 day (15 days post-op) cause I applied 28,000 IU vitamin e oil, and it was like having a layer of crazy glue on my scalp. I couldn't even get the stuff off for several days, and the hairs all gave up the ghost cause they got stuck in it. It seems some of my former frontal forelock hairs gave up the ghost as well, so it was like going bald in 1 day (no joke) !! I am now the most bald I have ever been in my life; it's not very pleasent and I'm living under the hat. The good news is that the HT hair was growing from day one and was a good bit longer before it fell out; a number of the single graft hairs in the very front have also survived the shed and are getting very long and sticking straight up, so I guess that's a good sign. Also, dark stubble is already coming in and getting longer by the day where there was nothing but bald skin before. Puss pimples are already starting to form as well. I did have shockloss around my scar on the sides, mostly all below the line -- but not too bad compared to some blogs I have seen. I'm taking MSM now to hopefully speed up that growth around the scar. If you still have scabs get yourself some LOWER concentration vitamin e oil and apply it all over the recipient area. They should be gone after a few days. Hang in there bro, it's a waiting game for both of us for some time to come !

Dan, I never bothered asking for references from my doc. He has done over 7000 of these surgeries, so it wasn't too hard finding people on my own without him knowing about it. I wanted to see the "average joe" outcomes, not just the cherry picked best case scenario results that most docs will give to you on a list. That was my big problem with FUE! I couldn't find any average joe outcomes on my own with the clinic not knowing about it. The only patients to meet were the few ones they recommended which to me (a hardcore skeptic) was of little value. At the end I did meet a star patient of the clinic, and the result was unbelievable. But I got to see the average joe results first, and those were still good enough to satisfy my doubts.

Dan, I really don't think you can compare the two. Have you seen any patients in person from a top clinic ? I've seen many, and not just the home-run cases you see on their websites. In every case where it was a virgin head pre-HT there was no evidence of scarring in the recipient area, and all the hair angulation was correct. Also, when the donor scar is done right you cannot find it even with short hair. You run a comb thru it and it's almost impossible to locate even though you are looking for it. Now if a patient has dark, coarse donor hair on very pale skin then Slaps is right that the grafts can look "pluggy" and too thick, even when done by a top doc. I've seen a few of these, and though most people would never be able to tell anything was done, it would not satisfy me. If I had donor hair like that and pale skin I would just have avoided getting a HT. If you haven't met patients in person who have your characteristics then you have no business planning a HT.

I haven't yet seen 1 single patient who wasn't butchered by the Norton clinic after researching this stuff for 5 years. I think that just about says it all. If you get butchered the first time it is likely you'll always have negative views towards HTs, no matter who performs them -- sort of like a white woman who gets assaulted by a man and cannot help but seeing all males as potential threats afterwards.