EpilepticSceptic

it's not a HT, it's a hair system follow this link for the irrefutable proof: (promotional link removed - we do not allow link backs to this site) scroll to the last page so, are you going to wear a wig now like so many of the hyped up demigod actors in hollywierd do ? DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE !!! most of those dweebs are just average balding joes who are made to look larger than life on the sleek silver screen. off screen you'd be very suprised what they look like in real life. same as it ever was!

Swimmy, Welcome to the MPB pit, a.k.a. -- hell! I'm also in that stratosphere of exceedingly good looking with hair, and just another average balding joe without. Sucks doesn't it ? I went from looking like Rob Lowe to Richard Nixon in 5 short years (age 21-26). Fortunately for me the hairloss came to a grinding halt, and it appears I took after my mother's side where the men look like Richard Nixon. It's a crying shame that you are so insecure about your hairloss state now that you won't go out in public. What you think looks horrible now is where you'd pay a million dollars to be in 10 years from now when you're 34. Trust me, you'll look back on those old photos and think to yourself "my god, why didn't I get out of the house while I still had at least some decent hair ? " The thing about MPB is that it will only get worse with time, that's a guaruntee along with taxes and death. My advice to you is the same advice people give to young girls: you'd better enjoy these years now whilst you're young and pretty, cause in 10/15/20 years (which will seem like 10 minutes looking back) you certainly wont be able to rely on your looks anymore!

If that is you in your avatar picture, then IMO you should forget about HTs completely -- at least for now, and get on Fin. immediately. You look to be in your 20s and heading to a NW stage 7. I hope I am wrong! If you still proceed to get a HT do not claim no one properly warned you about the consequences on this forum.

John, I'm really sorry if my post offended you in any way; that was not my intention. You actually seem like a very intelligent guy BTW. Sometimes I forget that I was lucky enough to have a bad experience with this whole "hair replacement" industry at age 19 (that was back in 1989). To make a long story short, I responded to an ad in a magazine and fell victim to a "tunnel system" wig that they made sound like it was your natural hair. At the time I was still a NW1.5 with very mild temple recession, and I wanted to chase my hairloss and naively believed this would be the way to do it. They ran these plastic tubes through my scalp (lots of blood) and attached a RIDICULOUSLY FAKE looking WIG to my head! I was stupid enough to walk out of there, but the next morning I showed up and demanded they immediately remove it. I lost $1000, but I gained a very hard and valuable lesson that made me extremely skeptical from that moment on. I mentioned this because had I not gone through that then, who knows, I might very well have made a similar foolish decision as you did with your first HT. So again, I apologize. Anyway, do you think that your Dr. Feller surgery might have satisfied you if he didn't have to remove all of those former plugs ? To be honest, your hairline still looks too low and broad to me and I think that partly contributes to it looking unnatural in person. I think a NW0/1 hairline is ALOT more difficult to pull off and make look natural than a NW2 is. I chose Dr. Hasson specifically because of how he seems to make all of his hairlines a NW2 with recession/thinning built into them. To some this is unsatisfactory, but to me it's what makes or breaks a HT as far as looking natural. Hasson is one of 3 HT surgeons that makes natural looking hairlines IMO, and it's because they are conservative. And I've seen a number of them in person so I know the photos and HD videos are not lying.

Cool bro! We sound like birds of a feather. I was also a NW4, but with a 2" X 2" crown spot and still a decent (albeit thin) front forelock intact. Sounds like we both needed about the same # of grafts -- I got 4496 in one surgery this past May, so I'm still in the doldrums. But the native hair seems to be filling back in already, so I'm pretty much back to where I was pre-HT. Yeah, I can't really say for sure what I would do if the "miracle cure" comes out down the road. There's probably a little devil in me somehwere that would say "f*ck it man, I want my teenage hair back again!". But the good news is that we likely wont see that cure in our lifetime. I dunno, I still think if you put a 14 year old's hair on a 50 year old body you might end up looking like a freak -- Judge Napolitano on Fox comes to mind. IMO the next big thing will be the stem cell injections ala Histogen. Word on the street is that we'll see it being offered in Asia by 2014. I think it will be a huge improvement over what minox. can do, but it will not replace Fin. or other DHT blockers. It may turn out where we will be getting these injections every 6 months to increase the hair density of our HTs, which would be really cool as long as it is affordable. I truly believe that those of us 40 year olds (who were not NW6/7) getting HTs today will not have to worry about looking like freaks when we're pushing 60; there's just too much going on in science for these treatments not to materialize in some beneficial form, and too much potential money at stake.

kaounis, So do you regret your HTs and feel shame about it today ? just curious. Also, what was your NW level that you tried to tackle with 4600 grafts ? I agree with you that if somone is the type who cannot even leave the house without "perfect" hair then they are a TERRIBLE HT candidate. But this type person will be utterly miserable whether they get a HT or not anyway, and would be more wise to seek counseling. Most of the guys on here seem to be in the "chasing my hairloss" crowd; they just can't accept the FACT that they are aging and cannot hold on to that NW0/1 head of hair. IMO it's better to deal with the cold reality of change head on and develop a harder shell when it comes to what others might think of you. HTs are about making an improvement in your appearence IMO, taking off a few years from your age perception. And that is worth it to people who have spent enough time in the MPB pit.

I've said this before, and I'll say it here again: the best HT candidates are older guys (40+) who have faced the reality head-on of being bald/balding for many years already, and who have adjusted to it in public. Many here think the opposite, that once you get older and have adjusted to MPB that your appearence and your hair will not matter anymore. That is about as far from the truth as it could possibly be, and only on HT forums where mostly youngsters hang around do you see this type of false information being propogated. Many of the guys here seeking HTs have never even once exposed their balding in public to their circle of peers, and they live under concealers which also give the "illusion" of a fuller head of hair. They want a HT to try and acheive the head of hair they pull off with concealers, and they want to hide any hint of thinning anywhere on the head because they have never yet dealt with exposing their baldness in public. These type patients will inevtiably IMO be dissapointed with any type of HT, strip or FUE. When you are older and you've spent at least a decade in the MPB pit (exposed in public), then your goals with a HT are VERY different than the younger crowd! Not only do you not expect a "full head of hair", but you DO NOT WANT a full head of hair! You want something that looks NATURAL, that frames your face, and that places you in that "thinning" class of men who are NOT BALD. You know there is no way that you'll be able to maintain the density of a 20 year old's hair, and that if you tried to do this with HTs that you would only look like a FREAK! I've also seen many guys on here say that a HT would be a failure if it still looked "thinning", and that shaving down or just being bald would be a better option. Yet most often this comes from guys who HAVE NOT BEEN IN THE PIT -- not even for a single day! They are armchair philospohers with no experience; they have never been bald (NW4+), they have been obsessively hiding behind concealers, and many have never even attempted to shave their head. So what could they possibly know ? And what validity could their statements possibly have if they have never experienced what they are talking about ? To say that patients like Bobman, Futzyhead, Jotronic, Bill and a plethora of others would have been better off just staying as they were (or shaving their heads) borders on the absurd! Opinions like this have to come from people who have never met patients like this in person to see their results, people who believe the tired rants of dissastisfied patients on HT forums whose expectations were completely ridiculous, almost adolescent. No offense to Malloy, but when I see his hairline from his first surgery it's obvious he wanted to chase a 14 year old boy's hairline with HTs. There's no way in hell a patient who pursues this could ever have been even remotely educated about HTs, and IMO that is completely adolescent. Even if he hadn't received plugs with that first hairline design, as he aged that would have looked completely ridiculous anyway. How many 40 year old men have a hairline that low ? Looking at his pics it is also obvious that he has never really been significantly bald, and therefore he has NO IDEA what it is like to face the public as a bald man. Thus, his level of tolerance is very low and his obsession with perfection is very high. Many here would kill to be able to pull off the look he has right now, yet he feels like the elephant man about it. It makes me think of a beautiful girl who gets one pimple and won't leave the house, and is suicidal about it.

Wow, you've been on Propecia since 18. Bravo, you're one of the very few wise young men around here ! Stay on it, because it's your only hope besides HT. Don't waste your money or time on anything else, and good luck !

I think even more important than age is being on Finasteride for a long enough time pre-HT to know that you are one of the fortunate good responders to it without any intolerable side effects. I have photos of my hairloss condition 11 years ago, and today it is almost exactly the same. I'm 41 now. The crown loss has not progressed at all, and actually looks to be even better. My forelock has thinned a bit more, but for 11 years the loss is very stable and very slow. I started Fin. 11 years ago, but never really took the 1mg dose everyday and was very inconsistent with refilling prescriptions cause it was so expensive back then. But still when I look at those 11 year old photos it is very clear that my loss has stabililzed tremendously over that period of time. I think the guys who are at greatest risk of dissapointment are the ones who cannot verify that they have halted the loss, or who have only been on Fin. for 6 months to 1 year and have no idea how it will pan out in the long haul. So if you were 33 and had been on Fin. since 23, and if you know for sure it has halted your hairloss, then you are probably fairly safe to go under the knife IMO.

Sorry, I didn't mean to come accross so harsh. I do believe you have hope, but you are so young with a diffuse pattern that looks very aggressive. Therefore, halting the loss is imperative IMHO -- before proceeding with any kind of HT. I see so many young guys under 30 coming here looking for the "final solution" or "cure" to their hairloss issues, and they want to seek a HT before they even try any other options. I wish it was that easy too, just get a HT and no more hairloss worries and no need to take meds. But it just aint that simple, and many have to learn the hard way unfortunately.

No, I did not lose any of the hair from day 1. As a matter of fact, the hairs started growing from day 1 but by day 16 they all shed because (IMO) I put 28,000 IU vitamin E oil on my scalp and that stuff is like crazy glue. So the shed was rather extreme due to that CRAP !!! Things are looking better now though. BTW, I am at 1.75 months post-op. Hair has stopped falling and pretty much all of it happened around day 16 for me.

Tao, I can agree with your post to an extent, as we all know that even the best looking man who has 0 confidence and charm will still lose out in the end. But the million dollar question is simply this: WHY does hairloss bother us as individuals ? Certainly, it MUST be because our particular society places a very high value upon it. If you didn't grow up in such a society, do you think that balding would have ever bothered you very much ? So you see, IMO it has very little to do with what we personally feel about balding. Most on these forums advise getting a HT to overcome our personal insecurities about it. But if society didn't consider balding as something lame and unattractive, then would personal insecurities ever even have a chance to develop within us ? I try to look at it from a psychologist's perspective. I really could care less about my hair, and I'm not someone who has ever spent alot of time looking in mirrors. However, one cannot deny that people's perceptions of you change from hairloss. If Tom Cruise or Brad Pitt went bald (NW5/6/7), do you really think that simply having confidence would be enough for them to overcome how society would perceive them ? And if either one of them had gone bald in their early 20s, do you think there would even be a Brad Pitt or Tom Cruise in Hollywood today -- or ever ?

I think it's normal, or at least I HOPE it is! I've been dealing with the same thing since day 16 post-HT. I don't think I've noticed more shockloss since then, but most all of the hair fell out in 1-2 days and I was more bald than ever before in my life. 50% of my native hairs in the frontal forelock were suddenly gone, exposing bald skin for the first time in my life! And it still looks pretty much the same today (2.75 months post-op), and has me worried just as you are. I wouldn't take your dermatologist seriously though .

you need to give the Finasteride (fincar/propecia) 1 full year at least, and you need to take the full 1 mg dose everyday. if by then you haven't seen the loss at least slow down then just shave it down and forget about HTs alltogether. the finasteride is really your only hope IMO.

post clear photos showing your balding pattern if you want to receive any worthwhile advice

I'd call myself an optimistic skeptic now that I've had my surgery. I expect a great success, but will remain skeptical until I physically see it manifest. But even though I'm at the darkest phase (2 month mark), I still feel upbeat about it every day. What good can being pessimistic really do, other than to lower your expectations ? I guess maybe for some this can be a good thing, but for me is just a futile waste of energy.

herenomore, I think H & W gave you the best advice of all; if I were in your shoes I'd pay attention to it.

Sorry Bill, I'll keep a lid on it from here on out!~

Anouar, Saying I like to make blanket statements is YOU making a blanket statement about me! And besides, WHERE did I ever say i was "anti-FUE" ? I am NOT anti-FUE, but I am "anti-being a LAB RAT" for docs/clinics who can only show me a few well documented success stories. I'm the type of sceptic who needs to see MANY well documented successful outcomes before paying to have some doctor operate on my head -- period !!! In other words, YOU GUYS can be the lab rats and then once I see enough of you have made out well then (and ONLY then) will I consider it. And I am not cheerleading for my clinic (H & W) ! How could I possibly cheerlead for them when I haven't even yet seen what MY results will be ? As of now my opinion of FUE is that it is very useful as an "adjunct" to strip surgery, meaning that once you are stripped out then FUE may be a good way to get additional grafts, and also for filling in bad scars and softening hairlines. Don't forget that I am not new to this debate. I turned down a free 2000 FUE surgery at DHI in 2005. MANY back then on the HLH forum considered them to be doing top notch work, and there were also some impressive photos of good outcomes. The PROBLEM in my eyes was that there were too few cases for review, and they were also just 1 year max post-op. MANY on the HLH forum thought I was the luckiest guy in the world, and now looking back I wonder how many of those were actually DHI shills !!! Had I just trusted their opinions and listened to them without keeping a skeptical eye I am 110% certain that I would be a miserable, butchered, donor depleted REPAIR PATIENT today, and all of the anonymous forum members who had such high praise for DHI would be long gone from the scene! So you see folks, it took TIME for the disgruntled ARMY of hacked-up DHI patients to manifest. And this IMO is the problem with all of these new FUE docs/clinics who seem to be doing great consistent work on a few patients -- not enough TIME has yet transpired to know for sure anything about them! Remember peeps, TODAY'S top docs could very well be TOMORROW'S hacks & quacks; it has happened before on the forums (this one included), and it will most certainly happen again -- the only thing standing in the way is TIME! With H & W there was ALOT of time to see if they were for real or not, and that is why I went with them. Call me a cheerleader if you like, but to me it was just prudent research and hardened skepticism that led me to their door. I have also been to visit Dr. Cole's office and was thoroughly unimpressed with what I saw. And then you have the whole Armani debacle! For those of you green newbies here who think you know so much about FUE, let me remind you that Armani was IMMENSELY popular back in 2005 as one of the top 3 docs in the world. MANY had COMPLETE trust in him and his skills. Now look at how many peeps he has hacked up with his BS FUE megasessions !!! Do YOU think for a second this doctor lacked any skill in performing HTs ? Why then does he have a number of very impressive FUE success stories, and so many others that FAILED ? Is he bi-polar, good on some days and bad on others ? I'm not the type to just sit around on a forum and listen to what other people have to say about this or that clinic or technique -- I need physical, tangible PROOF, and the more the better! The PROOF is not yet there to satisfy me with FUE. Once I see a clinic with 50 or more HD videos posted of successful 3000+ graft FUE sugerys, then I will start to consider it. It's 2010 and FUE has been around for many years now, so you'd think (if the technique itself wasn't hit & miss) this should have happened by now.

What's wrong sparky, you never shot a load that hit the ceiling before or accidentally sprayed 10 ft. accross the room? I'm a beast, and happy to admit it.

D, Yeah, I should probably pump some iron to beef up my chest a bit. But as it is now I ride 10 miles a day on my bike and don't feel much different than I did when I was 25. I've seen guys my age who look pregnant they are so fat and out of shape. Ultimately I'm a believer in that the human mind and will is stronger than anything else in life. If you REALLY want to do something you can accomplish anything, and you can also overcome anything. There are those who believe they can and those who believe (or are afraid) they can't; this applies to almost everything in life and seems to be what divides successful people from unsuccessful people, happy from unhappy. So if you really believe you will have the sides and they will be intolerable, then there is a very strong chance your belief will make that become a reality.

D, I would say that the 1 year mark on Fin is the likely point where 1) you will know if it is working 2) you will see if any sides will be a problem However, the ED situation is something I have never encountered personally. I thought at times that this might be the case because urges to masturbate had substantially diminished; but once a hot chick was in the room and coming on to me, forget it bro cause my willy would spring to attention and get rock hard in a millisecond. Another crazy thing I noticed as a result of Fin use was that I could hold back quite a bit longer on ejaculations than in the pre-Fin days. This came as a suprise, and one long term girlfriend even felt I was a better lover post-Fin cause it would give her alot more time to enjoy the ride before I would explode. One thing is for sure though: sex in general is DEFINITELY less of an obsession than it was pre-Fin. For a guy in his 20s this might seem like the end of the world, but at 41 it feels more like a blessing. I actually now have the ability to resist women, whereas before there was absolutely no control. Also, I used to masturbate quite often and could think about nothing other than sex most of the time. This was a BIG problem in college because it made it very difficult to focus on studies while I was just trying to keep down erections in the classroom staring at the girl's tits sitting next to me. So for me the Fin use seems to have balanced something out. The one regret I have is the watery semen, and also that orgasms are not as intense feeling as they used to be. Pre-Fin days I would have orgasms that could hit the ceiling (literally)and made my whole body shudder -- that's how intense they were. These days with the right woman I can get close to that feeling again; but with masturbation forget it, aint gonna happen! It's like a junkie who wants to get that high back of the first time he shot up cocaine, but the feeling can never be the same again. I guess in my case it's also partly due to age being 41 and wanting the sex to feel like it did when i was 22 again.

D, Man, not meaning to pry but are you having any really bad sides with the finasteride ?

Yo Spex, Man, I love the pics of your hair in sunlight ! I think our hair types are a bit similar in the way the hair sits on the head, slightly wavy. What was your hair shaft diameter classification ? And how many grafts total did you have to the front third ? Did you have any crown work ?

herenomore, What were the finpecia sides ?