EpilepticSceptic

Chris, Who did you have your Ht with ? I'm actually alot more fortunate than I thought I would be in my 20s when the hairfall started. My hairline around the temples went almost overnight, but the forelock and top remained very solid. Even today at 41 the top and forelock are pretty good (NW3.5/4ish). I'm one of those guys who looks radically different without a hairline to frame the face. For me it was probably age 23 where things really started to fall apart. Try to imagine Tom Cruise as a NW4 and you'll get the drift. With hair I'm a ladykiller, and without it just another faceless baldie in the crowd. I've been stomaching this for about 17 years now, and it's finally time for a change because I know that I'm a very good candidate. I managed to avoid total desolation (NW6/7) and it doesn't look like that will be in my cards now. I feel like I've been released from death row, literally !!

Well, your hairstylist is 1/2 right and 1/2 wrong. If you go to one of the best docs today then you will NOT get doll's hair !! Even people who cut your hair will not be able to tell unless you tell them. However, if you are a young guy (35 or younger) who still has alot more hair to lose and may likely head to Norwood 6/7, then he is right IMO. If you are 25 or younger then just to forget about HTs alltogether would be the wisest course of action IMO.

I think if you are in your 20s (yes, even late 20s) you cannot expect any HT doc to see your final balding pattern if it hasn't happened yet. Chasing your hairloss with HTs is never the best approach IMO. Like you say, you may plant too dense in certain areas and then the hair around that thins badly and the contrast between the 2 stands out like a sore thumb. It probably would look unusual in public at that point. Most of the successful HTs I see are in patients whose loss patterns are stabilized, and so the HT doc's work ends up like a finished painting that lasts for awhile (hopefully). I think the smarter patients wait it out a little longer to see how far the loss will go on the meds. 10 years on finasteride, and then seeing where you are, is probably the safest approach to take. You might end up not being a good HT candidate by that time.

Thank you Dr. Charles! My donor density is 90 per sq. cm -- NW 4 with great laxity and medium fine hair.

I know it would be most ideal to be off the charts in all 3 categories. But let's say you are right in the middle (average) concerning hair shaft diameter and donor density, but your laxity is way above average. Will that be a better position to be in than to have poor or average laxity, but coarse shaft diameter and above average donor density ? I see many cases of NW6 patients who had average donor density, and even fine caliber hair -- but because they had a super elastic scalp they were able to get a very full looking restoration. I'm just wondering what characteristic is truly the most important one for patients that may end up NW6 (worst case scenario) at some point ? My guess would be laxity, but I'm wondering if I am wrong.

This is why I am very happy that my hair shaft diameter falls in the middle. It's not coarse, but it's not fine either. Coarser hair will provide more coverage, but at the hairline even today's best surgeons will admit that it's very challenging to recreate a hairline that looks natural -- some even say it can look "pluggy." Actually, if I had coarse hair I think I would probably avoid getting a HT alltogether if I needed a hairline recreated.

Great post, I enjoyed reading it! As far as I can see the brightest thing on the horizon is hair cloning. This involves taking a small sample tissue from the back of your head and then growing living, mature follicles from it an a laboratory. Imagine that ? You could be a Norwood class 7 and you just go to the clinic, they take the sample, and you come back 3 weeks later and they have 40,000 grafts ready to implant into your head. With a great surgeon to prepare the recipient site, patients will have Elvis's hair even if they were a class 7 !! And no meds, no sexual sides, no nothing !!! It would indeed be the holy grail we are all hoping for. And from what I have read I believe they have already done it, but are just sorting out the details. What I would like to know most is can we plan out our HT procedures today to SOME extent based upon the cloning technology being available in the next 20-30 years ? I ask this because if I wasn't so worried about my donor supply running out in 20 years if I head to a more advanced Nowrood, then I would go for a more aggressive and dense HT today up front. I still have a good bit of native hair on top, so if I knew there was at least a 60% chance cloning would be available at least sometime by 2030 then I would be willing to take this risk.

Brother, First off, slow down for a moment and take a deep breath, and get your head together! There really is no such thing as a "high class clinic". There's only good ethical clinics that do great work, and clinics that do shabby work but spend alot of money on flashy advertising to make themselves appear "high class." In the end all that matters is RESULTS !! The fact that you had 3000 FUE grafts both extracted and implanted in a 12-14 hour period is already a major concern. It's simply not humanly possible to extract AND implant that many grafts via FUE in that short period of a time without compromising the quality of the work. And you are not the first person that Dr. A has done this to. Just type in Armani in the search engine on this site and you will immediately see a bunch of threads pop up from patients that have had horrible outcomes from these FUE megasessions. Two names immediately come to mind: Balboa and Chanyouzhe. At 9 months post-op are you seeing what appears to be close to a full yield of 3000 grafts grown out ? Or does the yield seem alot less than 100% ? If the yield seems low then that is probably a good indicator of damaged grafts. If the grafts are damaged then they may still produce hairs, but those hairs will be of poor quality and would probably look weird like you are describing.

What is your age ? Also, how long did it take to complete the 3000 FUE session ?

This is actually a fun topic for me, as I have thought about this issue quite often. I'm a very early NW 4 these days, and I'm planning on a 4000-5000 session to get back to (hopefully) a pretty solid NW2. For those people who are casual aquaintences that I see in coffee shops every now and then, I'll have some fun with them. I think I will tell them that I met a shaman in my travels to South America and that he gave me some magic herbs and performed a ritual on me. I'll tell them that from then on I started looking younger and that it was just "mind over matter". Ya know, like Yogananda when he had his epiphany after meeting a spiritual master and he woke up the next day and the aging process just started magically reversing. This will be alot of fun I'm sure, because many of these people are guys with hairloss problems themselves and who have made it a point at times to group me in with them as "getting old". I would call them the "misery loves company" crowd, and it will be a thrill to leave them in the dust! For close family I'll just say that I started taking Avodart for my prostate, and I just so happen to be in the rare 1% that grows alot of their hair back.

What is your age ? And have you been on finasteride ?

Norton sounds like he would be the perfect character in a Quinton Terrintino flick !!

James, Seriously dude, just go ahead and shave it down to a #1 guard. I saw your photos and it looks like you're already at Norwood 6 and there's very little up on top anyway. You have absolutely nothing to lose. I have a very close friend who mother nature dealt some pretty serious blows, but he overcame it all and is today (at age 33) married to a GORGEOUS woman from Argentina. This dude is as bald as you are, was born with a cleft palette (so he has a very weird looking nose), and is only 5 feet 1 inches tall !!!!!!!!! But his body is ripped and he has alot of confidence cause he is a really good saxophone player. He shaves his head too ! Most guys who fear shaving their head are only at Norwood 3/4, and they fear what they will look like. But at Norwood 6 you'd only be ridding yourself of the thin fringe of horseshoe hair that does nothing but bring ALOT more attention to your baldness. There are MANY women who love shaved heads, but who are absolutely turned-off by the horseshoe fringe. Dude, you are 23 !! I see alot of guys your age that have shaved to the bone heads and cool tatoos, and MANY are very bald on top. But they have no problem with chicks because they portray a cool, confident "bad boy" image. And you are LUCKY to have a very attractively shaped head !! I mean it, man !! Shave it down, get some cool sunglasses, get ripped and get busy livin' !!! Go to Argentina where the women are super horny and outnumber the men 3 to 1. You WILL GET LAID -- no problem bro !!! Get the hell out of the UK as fast as you can. Even with a full head of hair the women in the UK and USA will still rape your soul and leave you with nothing but miserable regrets.

I assume by not mentioning the doc, after several times it has been insinuated that he shares the name of a popular fashion designer, we can now safely conclude that it is indeed the work of said doc ? If so, then you need not look very far for many other patients who have suffered the same fate as you -- yes, right here on this forum. How long was the session where 3000 FUE grafts were extracted and implanted ? You mention that this so called "top doc" has plenty of great outcomes in photos. Really ? Is that all that you needed to make your decision to choose him ? If so, then you did not do proper research at all IMO. If it is indeed this doc there are PLENTY of red flags posted on this site (and others) to warn any potential new patient of the possible risks of his FUE megasessions. Just doing 1 or 2 searches in a 2 minute period would have brought up enough negative information to make anybody doing proper research stay far, far away !

Sounds like an FUE megasession gone awry. Am I correct in assuming that the doctor shares the same name as a well known fashion designer ?

Chris, What's up with that disclaimer at the bottom of your sig. ? Should I say that I am also not a medical professional every time I make a post too ? Hmmm.

Yes, but do you find that framing of your face from the HT (even as stubble) improves your look with the shaved head ? I ask this because most all of the men I see with shaved heads that look really good still have some outline of stubble on top. I have rarely seen ones completely bald (NW6/7) that looked good shaved. I also commend you for shaving down and not letting the strip scar stop you. I think in real life most people are not going to be focusing on the back of your head anyway, and that on these boards people make it seem like it will be the end of the world if anybody can ever see their strip scar. I'm a very daring and physically active person, and hence I have had many accidents. I literally have scars all over my body, and some are quite large. I have found that certain women (the kind that I find attractive)actually LOVE these scars on my body and it's a huge turn-on for them. If I worried about them and tried to hide them all the time I believe it would be the projection of that insecurity that would turn people off, not the scars themselves. So many on these boards incessantly worry about what othr people think about them and their appearence. Man, they are just people and they ALL have imperfections. Don't take them so seriously, and if they are jerks then just blow them off. Life is too short to live in a constant state of insecurity. I personally think a large # of people on these boards contemplating HT surgery are actually not good candidates because of this. They are expecting the HT to fix all of their emotional problems, and that is just a recipe for disaster IMO.

Watery semen -- but that is the effect of the drug IMO, not a "side effect".

HairGuy, Well, I just saw this post so I'll give you my reply. BTW you sound like a shill for hair systems -- do you have a "plan" to sell to me (lol) ? Point 1: How can you even remotely compare a woman wearing makeup to a "hair system" ? That's got to be the most ridiculous thing I think I've ever read on here! You're either a wig salesman with an agenda, or you're just a guy wearing a piece and living in a fantasy world. For many women (at least the one's who would attract me) make-up just enhances an already beautiful face for certain social occasions, or special moments in the sack -- and the rest of the time they don't wear any. There's nothing fake about that IMO. Point 2: Fake boob implants and fake teeth (unless dentures) are permanent and don't have to be removed for servicing every 2 weeks. And you are dead WRONG about the general public's view of hair systems being comparable to botox injections or dental cosmetics, as from my experience people generally accept those things as "normal" today but still consider rugs to be absolutely hilarious. Therefore, for your comparison to make any sense it would have to either be a woman who has NO tits and wears cushions under a bra, or one who has horribly saggy tits that hang down to the floor but keeps them nice and firm looking with some type of harness under her shirt. Now I ask YOU point blank -- do YOU want to be with a woman whose tits hang down to the floor and are full of celluloid when her harness comes off, or one that had her tits surgically removed from breast cancer but FOOLED YOU with some FAKE cushions under a bra ? Or do YOU want the real deal ? How are YOU going to react when you hit the sack with either of these women and realize that they DECEIVED you ? Point 3: Beyonce wears a system ? So is she a Norwood 6 without it, or does this system just "enhance" her already natural hair ? I ask because there is a HUGE difference between the two, both in mine AND the general public's view of hair systems. Point 4: You say I don't know anything about women, but I think I know a good bit more than you do. What type of women are you talking about anyway, the gold diggers with nose jobs who don't care whether you are bald or not because they just want to steal your money ? Or are you talking about women who are looking for real romance and a real potential lifetime partner ? If you are talking about the latter, then I can GUARUNTEE you my friend that they will NOT want that ridiculous wig on your head!! The good ones will tell you they accept you as you are and love you for what's on the inside, and it will disgust them if you are so fake and insecure that you need this stupid rug on your head to go out in public. But the gold diggers and fake one-night-stands will not mind in the least because you're just another discard to take advantage of, or a UTILITY that they see as a machine to provide them with an easy life while they think about other men with hair when they get horny. If that kind of life satifies you then fine, go ahead and live it. But for me I need something much deeper, romantic, and more genuine. I don't want to get in the sack with a girl and then find out she has a body of cellulite that was expertly hidden by her clothes, and that's pretty much what men are doing with "hair systems" IMO. Hence I will NOT wear a stupid rug on my head just to announce to the whole world how phony and insecure I am about my hairloss. I'd rather be bald and retain some sense of dignity -- THANK YOU !!!!!!

Watery semen is totally normal IMO if you're taking fin. I've been on it for 10+ years and this has always been the drug's effect. They call it a "side effect" but that's just pushing the truth under the rug. This is the EFFECT of reduced DHT in your prostate. But since ejacualtions feel the same, and boner's remain stiff as steel (with the right chick) it doesn't bother me one bit.

Azazlegs, Hey man, I remember VERY clearly when I was your age. I am a very emotional person too, and the hairloss issue really took it's toll on my life at that time. I almost made a SERIOUS MISTAKE at that time as well with NuHart Hair Clinic. I was so desperate and emotional about my receeding hairline that I had sent them a deposit for a HT surgery. They had me sucked in by that stupid cheesy video too !! The bottom line is that if I had been stupid enough to do that back in 1993 then I would, without a doubt, be a disfigured doll-hair victim today !! I've seen some of these doll-hair repair patients on the forums, and man let me tell you that I seriously don't believe I could have made it through that. I hate to say it, but I have a feeling I would have been very suicidal if I would have ended up like that. Any decision in life based upon out-of-control emotions is generally a bad one. Luckily for me something in my gut told me to back out of that NU Hart deal. I think the best thing you can do right now is get on proscar and see if it stabilizes your hairloss in the next 2-3 years. There's no point in getting a HT today if your loss is going to continue to be very aggressive and unstable. And the top docs with ethics would tell you that point blank. On a personal note, try and find something that you are REALLY GOOD at and that you enjoy doing -- and just start pursuing that incessantly. This will do 2 things : 1) take your mind away from hairloss and your appearence 2) give you a sense of direction in life that has nothing to do with your looks Having confidence in something that has nothing to do with your appearence can be a tremendous turn-on for women! Trust me, this is something you learn with age. A man that has drive, ambition, and who is really good at something will almost always beat out good looks for attracting the right women (NOT teenagers !!!). I see guys with perfect NW1 heads of hair everyday that have no ambition, no women, and are basically bums begging for change. These are guys post-30 and they never grew up; ironically for them NOT losing their hair was probably what led them to this fate, because all they did in their 20s was to party in clubs and now they can't compete with the new 20 year old lads. All these dudes do is hang around coffee shops hoping to pick up on some young college girl who doesn't mind a broke, aimless older dude that can still look somewhat hip. Once you have some confidence in yourself from discovering your passion in life (and a potential career from it), then you will be a much better candidate for HT surgery IMHO.

Azazelgs, Sorry if my posts have confused you, but it's not wise to make the assumption that I can't understand what you're going through. On the contrary, I probably understand what you're going through even better than you do because I am 17 years older than you. There's a saying "been there, done that". There is no quick fix, easy solution to MPB. Trust me, I WISH there was !! I thought by 2010 younger guys would have far better options than I did back in the 1990s. The truth is that HTs have come a long way, but donor supply is still a MAJOR problem and that hasn't changed at all. You said earlier that Jude Law's hair in that photo really bothered you. Jesus Christ dude, if THAT bothers you then you have no idea what REAL MPB will do to you !! In 5 years you may very well be DREAMING of having hair that looks half that good, and that is no exaggeration. You clearly have no idea yet the level of desperation that will result from advanced MPB ! HTs are still a huge gamble unfortunately for younger patients under 30 who truly show signs of heading to NW6/7. You may get a few good years out of a HT today, but if/when your MPB progresses badly then you'll be on the HT treadmill desperately chasing a "semi-normal appearence" and not even caring about your hairloss anymore. There are a number of guys on the HT repair forums who had good modern work done 5-10 years ago, but are now spending thousands of dollars just to get all the HT hair on top lasered out. Why ? Because they became a NW6/7 and can no longer "hide" the fact they had HT work, and it looks very awkward in public. And they just don't have the donor and laxity of guys like Bill in order to get more surgeries and "fix" the problem. They are stuck, and it's like being the character in a Kafka novel compared to just normal baldness. Dude, I'm not trying to scare you. You just haven't done enough research on this yet IMO, and it's obvious. Look harder for the "dark side" of HTs and you will indeed find some very discomforting cases out there. Go to the "repair" sections on various hairloss sites and see just how the guys who had HTs in their 20s feel now in their 30s since they progressed to NW6/7. It's a very desperate, sad crowd indeed who dreams of just being bald and shaving it down. And no, I'm not just talking about old plug jobs either.

This is exactly my problem with the whole FUE vs STRIP debate! There are so many dudes on these boards that preach FUE as the way to go, as if strip is outdated or too risky. But WHO are those that strip is too risky for ? 1) guys that are under 30 (with average or below average donor)and are not sure if they'll end up NW6/7 in the next 10-20 years. They are afraid of being stuck with a strip scar if the donor thins out, so they desperately want to play it safe and retain the option of very short buzzcuts so they can at all costs avoid the dreaded bozo the clown fringe of hair look. 2)guys who are 40+ and will probably never advance beyond NW4 for their entire life, but for some stupid reason want to retain the option of having buzzcuts even though they will have great looking NW2 hair with a decent plant. So WHY is it in the case of #2 that such a patient should spend more money on FUE ? If he will never have diffuse donor and the scar will never show, and he will never want to shave his head because he has beautiful, full looking NW2 hair, then WHY would FUE be the smarter choice ? And in the case of #1, this is probably a patient that will need 7000 or more grafts if he ever wanted a decent looking head of hair; but he wants to "play it safe" getting FUE at a young age so he can shave down if/when balding advances rapidly. Should such a patient even be considering HT surgery anyway ? Why not just shave down TODAY and forget about HTs completely ? I just think that those people who want to retain the option to shave down should just forget about HTs alltogether. If one truly believes there is ANY chance he will become a NW7 by age 40, then he should not be getting any kind of HT in his 20s or 30s !! Such a patient should wait until he is 40 and see where he is at before even thinking about HTs at all. And guess what ? He'll still retain the option of shaving down at age 40 because he did nothing and it didn't cost him a dime !! How can one be sure that they won't be NW7, specially under 30 year olds? i thought hair loss is something difficult to predict.

Wow that's incredible! One lucky bloke to have superman donor like that. Christine, is there a way to determine donor density and average # of FUs per sq. cm prior to surgery ?

Bill, I hear ya brother! I guess some clinics are just too busy with word-of-mouth referrals. But even though some of the clinics' photos and videos are truly realistic looking, I still think when viewing final outcomes it would be extremely helpful to always know a patient's FU donor density, average # of hairs per FU, hair caliber, transplant density, and estimated # of FUs available for future work. To prospective patients who have already had a consultation and know these very important specifics concerning their own case, knowing these details can only aid in discerning whether or not results viewed online are realisitc potential outcomes for the viewer. The lack of listing these important details I would say is the biggest source of frustration for me whenever viewing photo/video albums of patients whose results I find impressive and similar to what I would like to acheive.