EpilepticSceptic

Yeah, I hear that!! I think they can already do it, but it's just the darn bureauracrocy making it take so long. It just sucks because probably in 5-10 years it will be available and (if you have the $) cutting strips from the back of your head will be thing of the past. I have a dartboard with George W. Bush's face on it, and I throw darts at it everyday now for the past 9 years. Why ? Because his BS born again conservative christian bias resulted in 8 years of stem cell research and tissue cloning funding coming to a grinding halt. It is the fault of his administration that this stuff is not available today and we don't have infinite donor hair supply. And that SOB had a full head of hair so he didn't know what we are going through!!!!!!!!!! Thank god for Obama who is progessive! The wheels of medical science are turning once again my brothers!!! When the next election comes around, even if you hate Obama for other reasons PLEASE vote him in again for this reason alone!!! If a conervative republican gets in again WE ARE DOOMED !!! The interesting thing is they are already growing body parts and organs from scratch and transplanting them in bodies. I heard on NPR a few days ago about a guy that needed an esophogus, so they GREW him one and then transplanted it into his body. Seems like if we can already do that, we should be able to multiply hairs on the head. In our lifetimes, organs of all shapes and sizes will be grown from stem cells and be used in transplants. But I have less faith in HM. Maybe because its been 5 years away for 15 years already.

Hello MLC !! You look alot like me, except my frontal forelock is more solid than yours. Do you have any thinning or bald spots in the rear to cover ? Do you have photos of the top of your head and the back ? Or shots with the hair combed back ? With the photo you've posted it's hard for me to give you an assesment of how many grafts I think you will need. I'm going for at least 4000 in one pass which I hope will get me back to a mature, solid NW2. As far as your choice of doc and clinic, I think you can't really go wrong with SMG from all the positive feedback I have heard in over 5 years of perusing all the boards.

Thanks brother, and I appreciate your observations! Some of the anti-HT screamers on the forums can sometimes really put the fear factor in us! I just have to keep reminding myself that these were all (without exception) guys who got their 1st HT in their 20s and who are dealing with the very unpleasent situation of trying desperately to find ways to hide the HT. But they can't hide it because they are heading to NW 6/7 and they were poor HT cantidates to begin with (thin hair, poor donor density, large areas to cover, tight scalps, etc.). Getting this information out of some of them was also like pulling teeth, because they just want to make blanket statements that even modern HTs will eventually turn out bad for most who are happy now. I guess the scare tactics somewhat worked on me too, because they had me worrying about donor thinning. My donor area is actually pretty excellent at 90 FUs per sq. cm. As a solid NW3v at age 40 (and with a 50 yr. old brother who is still a NW3v) I must be pretty paranoid to worry about this stuff. The verdict is in at my age, and even Dr. Bernstein told me the chances of ending up a NW 6 if you've maintained NW3 or lower by age 40 are indeed very slim and seldom seen. I'm one of the lucky guys, so it's time for me to let this go and just trust in the skill of my doc and his staff.

Hey Bill, Thanks man! I never posed the question about HM thinking that I would wait until it becomes available to treat my hairloss. I just wanted to know if there was much of a chance that it would never come to fruition in my lifetime (I'm 40). I'm talking about HM where they can make an infinite # of grafts from taking just a few from the back of your head. I'm going to be getting a HT of 4000 FU grafts early this year. I am a NW 3 vertex, and it seems very unlikely that I will progress to NW6 as there is no family history of that happening at my age. So the chances are very slim IMO of that outcome; but if by chance that does happen in my 50s or 60s, I just wanted to know what the likelihood of HM being available in 2020-2030 would be ?? So many on this forum (and others) that sound the warning alarm about the risks of HTs (yes, even modern UR FUT) do so almost exclusively because of the issue of future thinning being inevitable and the donor supply not being enough. They always say you will look good for maybe 10-20 years with your HT if you are lucky, but then when you are in your 50s & 60s the donor area will thin out and then the HT surgery will become impossible to hide and you will REGRET IT !!! But if there is a strong likelihood that HM will become available then this would obviously nullify the need to be so concerned about the future loss. If the science is indeed solid and HM is the next big frontier in HT surgery (like Dr. Hasson has stated), then someone like me getting a HT today should be able to feel even more comfortable about this life changing decision and the potential future implications of it. I understand that all the young 20 year olds who are heading to NW6 and go to someone like Dr. A to get 5000 grafts placed for the "wall of hair" teenage hairline whilst thinking that HM is just 5 years away are making a very risky and dangerous decision; but this is not where I am coming from with it. It's just that if there is a 50% or higher chance that it will never be realized in my lifetime, then that will indeed have to weigh in on my decision to go through with the HT or how I go about placing the grafts. What if I'm in the minority that gets a cosmetically unacceptable strip scar even though all the best techniques were employed, making a 2nd strip surgery impossible ?

Do a search on this site. I never tried it, but it's a topical DHT blocker for the scalp. Some had success with it, but I think it's hit and miss for most. I think the official name for it is Spironolocotane, but that's probably mispelled. But if your hair already fell out then there's probably no way you'll get that back with it. That's what I tried to get accross to the OP. Once it's gone you AINT GONNA GET IT BACK no other way but surgical hair transplant. Sides from fin. will be the least of your worries then!!

Dude, I'm not trying to be condenscending but your level of hairloss is a JOKE compared to 99.9% of the people suffering from MPB. Yes, it may indeed progress rapidly and maybe 1-3 years from now you'll be back on this forum with a vanished hairline and receding crown (NW 3-4 category). But as it stands now you have MINOR diffused thinning on top that a $15 bottle of Toppik easily conceals and brings you to a SOLID NW2 appearence, which most here would KILL to have !!! At 30 years old you're in the category of VERY LUCKY to be where you are at! So it is rather easy to see why you can be so nonchalant about deciding whether or not fin. is worth taking. If you think your loss will not progress rapidly from where it is now and get much worse, then just get some topical DHT blocker (spiro) and keep applying the Regaine and you'll likely be OK for awhile. But if it indeed does progress and get much worse, TRUST ME you will be back on this forum looking at your old photos and feeling like the biggest loser that ever lived for NOT getting on fin. while you still had a chance to nip this thing in the bud early!!! I remember the days when my hair was like yours, and I too back then would likely have been nonchalant about taking a hormone altering drug just to save my hair. But back then when I looked in the mirror I never guessed in a million years that in 5 short years I'd be looking 20 years older!! That was in the mid 90s, and I am actually ANGRY with myself that I didn;t do more research back then because fin. had just come out and peeps were already using it to HALT the loss! I know now I am a good responder to it (which is also good fortune that not everyone has), and I'd be looking like you right now had I just been a little more proactive about seeking a solution to my hairloss. Taking fin. is really about the easiest solution out there, just swallowing a little pill every other day -- NO BIG DEAL !!!

Is this stuff a fluke, or is the science truly solid behind it ? In other words, is it just a matter of "when" and not of "if" ? If so, is the "when" likely to occur in the next 10-20 years ? I know for a long time (since early 2000s) people have been saying 5 more years. I'm not talking about gene therapy or stem cell injections (Histogen). To me that stuff will probably not be figured out in my lifetime (I'm 40). But HM cloning of hair seems much more likely. Does anybody here have the inside scoop on this ? I'll be going for a transplant soon (strip), and am not an advanced norwood. My loss is stable, so I'm not some 20 year old guy with diffuse thinning NW 6 pattern looking to get my teenage hairline back and relying on HM being only "5 more years away". LOL I just want to know if the science is solid enough that one could reasonably bet that in 10-20 years there is still a back-up plan for the very unlikely worst case scenario of me ending up a NW7 ? I've heard Dr. Hasson mention it as the next frontier in HT advancements, and I don't perceive him as someone who would claim that unless there was some solid science to back it up. He even seems to be pretty convinced it's only another 5-10 years away. What does he know that makes him believe that ?

Yeah, I had ED too for awhile. But the "right girl" was able to solve that problem. I found that if sex with your partner has just become routine going through the motions, then fin. will absolutely kill your drive completely. But if you're with a girl who is excited and knows what to do, you can definitely overcome it. Again, if you're one of those guys whose hairloss has not yet significantly impacted his appearance then it is MUCH easier to justify steering clear of taking fin. Just go to the H & W site and look at some of the guys' "before" pictures and you'll see what I mean!! Take a GOOD LOOK at patient's # 1,3,6,15, & 41. ESPECIALLY take a look at # 41 and # 3 !!!!!!!! My girl has seen these photos, and to this day still doubts that those are the same people. It's just hard to believe for the average person (who has never experienced hairloss) how DRAMATIC the impact can be upon appearence and making somone look ALOT OLDER! If you have not yet experienced hairloss that has been this dramatic altering your appearence, then you have NO IDEA about the debilitating emotional impact of it yet. If you are already this bald then you got on fin. too late anyway and should go for a HT with as many grafts as you can possibly have cut out of your head.

The reason you're so scared about the "possible" side effects of finasteride is because your hairloss is not yet significant enough to dramatically alter your appearance for the worse. Once your hairline dissapears and suddenly you (at age 30-35) are staring at a 55-60 year old looking man in the mirror, then TRUST ME you WILL NOT CARE about the side effects!! At that point even if it grew DD breasts on you and made your penis shrivel up to the size of a needle, you would still be BEGGING for some finasteride!!!! And if you wait until that point to get on it then it will be too late anyway! Take the word of an older MPB veteran who WISHES he had gotten on finasteride sooner! Yeah, your semen will turn watery and it will be half the volume of output for your girlie (this is GUARUNTEED!!); but that's a whole lot better than never having sex again for the rest of your life unless it's with a hooker or an 80 year old woman in a wheelchair at an old folk's home!!!!!!

Well, considering that you've been on propecia for over 10 years now I would think you are probably in the "safe zone" of knowing whether or not it will lose its' effectiveness. It's been about exactly 10 for me, and I could show you photos of the top of my head from that time that look like I had less hair then than now. So I definitely think it has helped me as well. It has always made my semen watery, but I just learned to live with that. As long as the pleasure of the ejaculations are the same I really don't mind. Besides, the older males in my family have a history of prostrate problems so it's probably preventative maintenance in that regard as well. I'm convinced had I started taking it as early as you did then I would have zero thinning in the crown. That sucks because that's gonna eat up about 800 grafts according to my doc. I gave up minox. a LONG time ago because, although it definitely thickened up my existing hair, it did NOTHING to help framing my face in the front. My frontal forelock is still pretty well intact, but all around it has been slick bald skin with NO hair to be found (not even vellous) since age 25. And I'm tired of looking like frickin Richard Nixon, so I'm definitely going to be making this move real soon! I'm one of those guys with certain facial features that make one look like a totally different person WITH hair framing the face. Take a good look at Futzyhead and you'll get the picture; the framing of that dude's face makes him look 20 years younger and like a totally different person. I've sat down with my girlfriend and looked at the H & W site and she was in absolute disbelief at the RADICAL difference the HTs made on certain patients. She kept making the comment that in the pre-op pics the guys would look like criminals or janitors, and in the post-op shots they looked like "normal", "happy" guys with families. And she's a real non-judgmental type sweetie, so that was startling to hear how even she will stereotype guys based upon their appearence. My advice to you is try not to worry too much about your perfectly natural desire to improve your appearence. Life is too short to live in fear of the minutest chances of failure when so much PROOF exists today of success with HTs. And besides, if you need a second HT when you are 44 years old will that be the end of your life ? I mean, what about those 10 years that you would have gotten having the look that makes you happy ? Can you put a price tag on that, really ? I live in the moment, and always have a plan for the future as well. But worrying is just a big waste of energy when you know you have done your research and are well informed. When I see 50 year old guys on the H & W site looking 10 years younger than me after their world class HT-- well, that's a BIG wake-up call for me brother!!!

Every surgery carries potential risks. If you asked any dentist he/she would tell you that 1 out of a every few thousand patients had a major negative reaction to anesthetic and had to go to the emergency room. Sometimes people die from taking flu vaccines, but they are 1 out of 100,000 when you look at the numbers. Should that stop YOU from taking the vaccine ? Life comes with risks. Some people are dead simply from getting into their car one particular day, and being in the wrong place at the wrong time on the highway where an 18 wheeler just so happens to veer out of his lane into them because he's falling asleep at the wheel. Had they just woke up 30 seconds later that day they would still be alive. Should that stop YOU from ever driving your car again ? But if you have a "tight scalp" then you should have a little worry over a 3500 FU strip surgery. It's just common sense that the wound will have more tension on it, and therefore complications can develop. Mine is loose as a goose, so I'm not very worried.

If your hair really starts going (which judging from your pics has NOT happened yet), trust me you WILL be running to the pharmacy to get some propecia!!!!! And you'll want to kick yourself is the arse for not getting on it sooner. When you look in the mirror and suddenly see somone you don't recognize who looks 15 years older, trust me you will not care whether you get sides or not. And thinking that you won't care anymore at age 40 is just BS! That's when life begins for men who have their act together. You will want to look your best. I'm in better physical shape now at age 40 than I was at 25 when I was chubby.

yo Spex, So that tatoo is really covering a strip scar ? Wow, if so that really blows me away! I guess his didn't go from ear to ear ? This really even gives me more confidence in a strip procedure. I'm a musician (on the more radical side), and I've asked about tatooing a design around the strip scar before. But nobody responded to my thread. With tatoo like this you could still shave the head down to bare skin. If your strip scar was 1-3mm then the right design would probably make it almost invisible; or at least it would be WAY off from being the center of attention!

I don't know man, this HT decision stuff is a tough call when you really know all the details. Thank god for forums like this where you can get down to the dirty, non-sugarcoated details of what one can realistically expect. Years ago the shills and the marketing demons could really pull the wool over our eyes. For me the clincher is that everytime I see my 10 year older brother and realize that he is still a solid NW3 (without proscar!)it just seems that I'd be a fool not to go thru with this from unwarranted worry. I've studied the baldness patterns of the men in my family on both sides, and I think at my age it is pretty safe to conclude that both me and my brother got my grandfather's (on mother's side) pattern. It all just adds up and makes sense. My grandmother told me when they married he was 26, and his hair always looked the same (that Richard Nixon pattern). My brother is frickin 50 years old and what he has up there is normal density thick hair. So i have ALOT of confidence at this point in avoiding the dreaded "chasing your hairloss" issue. I started taking fin. at age 30, even though from 25-30 the loss had halted. I saw it as some kind of insurance policy, though I could probably stop it now and still maintain what I have -- but I won't cause even 1% of that risk is not worth it! But if you've been on it since 24 that's a different call IMO. I would look CLOSELY at the MPB men in your family and try to find out how their patterns progressed. In other words, did ANY of them have NW2 hair til age 35 and then become NW6 from age 35-50 ? Some people get these type MPB genes, whereas others lose it all by age 25. My dad was a NW6 at age 28, so I know now for a fact that I dodged the bullet of getting his loss pattern! And he had 3 brothers, 1 who is a NW6 like him (at age 28)and 2 that kept their hair all their life. It's always a crap shoot, but at this point for me the verdict is looking more peachy every day! It's funny, but I used to dread the thought of getting older because I was SURE I would be bald like my dad. But now I almost wish I was 50 because every day I get more confident that my genetic destiny was more on the lucky side! I just don't believe anybody beyond NW5 is really a good HT cantidate for what i want to achieve with it.

I keep seeing this come up when clinics talk about major league HT success stories. You know, like Nic Nitro who was able to get 10,407 FU grafts from his donor because of this coupled with above average scalp laxity. So what are the magic numbers ? Or more specifically, does anyone know what Nic Nitro's average FU donor density (per sq. cm) was ? I really wish clinics and patients who post results would be more SPECIFIC with these very important details IMO. The only clinic that has consistently listed these details on here is Ferudini, which I deeply appreciate! From a consult I had years ago at Dr. Cole's I learned that my donor density was 90FU per sq. cm, which he said was above average for a Caucasian male. Also, my hair shaft diameter was listed as "medium fine". It seems that these factors are just as important as the quality of the surgeon's skill for the final outcome. So I get pretty frustrated when i see a great outcome but there is no specific "hair characteristics" imformation to help me make an informed opinion of how I might stack up against that patient!

Well, I am one of those guys who many people have told looks good with a very short (#2) shaved head. I guess you could say that I somewhat have the Jason Statham look, but I am still a NW3 so not nearly as bald as him. But YES, the only reason I keep it so short is because when it gets longer than 2 inches i think I look like a circus clown. That's just my image of myself, and it's not very flattering. But even though I think I look "decent" with a shaved down head, I am still not happy at all with my appearance like this. Why ? Because I know that with a solid NW2 head of hair that I look spectacular -- GQ model level as I remember well from the days of yore when so many hotties were chasing me!! I think those (like Statham) that still look sexy with a shaved head are also those guys with the features to look like a greek God WITH hair! But yeah, I have seen the trend of shaved head clones who are desperately trying to stay hip and young looking by "hiding" the fact they are balding. I don't think any of them are embracing their baldness either, I just think that they don't have any other choice. If they really were embracing their baldness then they would not bother desperately shaving down every 1-2 days to try and hide the dreaded "clown horseshoe fringe" of hair. Embracing baldness means leaving the fringe and not caring what anyone thinks, which is almost impossible to find nowadays with guys under 50. And even the guys over 50 are shaving down to bald skin as well, trying to look hip and cool. It seems that the horseshoe fringe is probably the most unpopular and dreaded fashion look in the history of the human race!

The verdict is in: without any doubt you inherited the pattern of your mother's father who was completely bald. I know because I am a psychic, and I can see your future. Now you can stop thinking about it and accept your unlucky fate. P.S. -- that was just a JOKE!! What the heck are you worried about mate ? Get on some Proscar and move on with your life. You don't have any major balding issues, and you are 27. If I was in your shoes I wouldn't even be wasting my time here and would not be worried about hairloss at all. Life is too short, and since you HAVE your hair you should be out there ENJOYING your lucky self as much as possible before you're too old and it doesn;t matter whether you are bald or not!

Good grief brother !! Those before pictures look like something out of one of my worst nightmares, or envokes the feeling one gets from reading Kafka. I am moved by your transformation because had I been in your shoes I don't know if I would have made it emotionally. The SCARIEST thing for me is that back in 1993 I had already sent a $1000 deposit to NuHart and scheduled my surgery all based upon that stupid videotape they sent me! They had me hooked and hypnotized, but somehow something in my GUT just told me to back out. I remember asking the sales rep if the hairline would look natural and he just kept avoiding the question. So I demanded the deposit back and (when they refused) had to get a lawyer to make a phone call. Man, now I look back on that after seeing your photos and think that must have been the biggest bullet I ever dodged in my entire life !!!

Considering LMS's motto "RESULTS WILL, WITHOUT A DOUBT, 100% VARY", here are my responses to his many well thought out points: 1)"THE VAST MAJORITY OF PATIENTS DO HAVE MORE THAN 1 PROCEDURE": True, but what percentage of these patients are 40+ years old, NW4 or less with stabilized hairloss, and NOT diffuse thinners with the hair shaft caliber of the hair on top EQUAL to that of the hair in the donor area ? 2)"ONE REALLY NEEDS TO LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE OF THIS PROCEDURE": True, but the important details of that BIG picture will, without a doubt, 100% vary from patient to patient. 3)"STRIP METHOD INCREASES THE LIKELYHOOD OF BETTER YIELD": Yes !! And I am very glad you mentioned this, because years ago on the HLH forum there were MANY FUE cheerleaders who were CERTAIN that in a few short years the "barbaric, stone-age" method of STRIP would surely be a thing of the past. I was one of the doubters in the minority. Why ? Where was the PROOF ? Enough labrats had not yet gone under the knife for me to overcome my skepticism. I even turned down a FREE FUE surgery from a certain clinic in Greece because they could not show me the PROOF!! It was a nice free trip though, and I got to stay in a swank hotel near the Agean sea. I almost didn't make it out of there with my virgin scalp intact; they were VERY upset that I backed out. Now all these years later (after a LONG break from the forums)I come back to see that Dr. A has hacked up probably hundreds of guys in their 20s and wrecked their donors for life, leaving them with 10% yield. And Dr. Cole's clinic seems to have taken a nose dive as well, and you see posts from people in the "repair" sections that say it looks like somebody let off a round of buckshot in the back of their head. So much for the "scar free" hype of FUE over STRIP. Sure am glad I didn't have to be one of those labrats who believed all the hype back then. But then again, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how microscopic dissection of grafts increases the likelyhood of better yield over punching them out with a "minimally invasive" punch tool. Yeah, maybe minimally invasive because it avoids cutting out a large piece of tissue from your head -- but probably "maximally invasive" to the delicate grafts compared to microscopic dissection!! 4) UNFORSEEN FACTORS CAN, AND DO, ARISE: Yes indeed, but it's the same with every other area of medicine. There are cases where people die from very minor surgeries because of negative reactions to anasthesia. Does this mean ALL of us should avoid minor surgeries because of this 1% chance? With STRIP in the right hands I would think the potential for sub-par growth is likely very small; so many countless thousands of labrats have gone under the knife with this method in the last 20 years that one can make a reasonably safe assumption of his/her odds for a successful surgery. With FUE, on the other hand, one cannot be so sure and I would think the odds of poor yield are much higher even in the very best hands. 5) JUST BECAUSE THE DOCTOR OF YOUR CHOICE POSTS ON THIS (AND OTHER)SITES FREQUENTLY DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE GUARUNTEED A SOLID OUTCOME: True again, but there is indeed ONE clinic who says that their results are guarunteed. They also happen to be the only one that posts HD video of results where you see the comb parting the scalp all over the head, as well as showing just how hard it is to find the linear scar. I guess it's because they really have nothing to hide. 6) "HTs ARE LIFELONG COMMITMENTS THAT OFTEN RESULTS IN PATIENTS PAYING MORE ATTENTION TO THEIR HAIR AND HAIRLOSS": True again, but is this a negative or a positive ? I think that will depend on the patient you are asking. Being that "bald guy" is also a lifelong comittment, just one that doesn't cost anything-- unless you factor in the cost of a lifetime of hookers, which these days probably far exceeds that of a HT. For ANYONE who thinks that his (modern UR FUT)HT was a mistake I CHALLENGE YOU to take an electric razor and shave down to a NW 7 pattern, leaving the "naturally balding" fringe of hair behind. This is EASY to do, and no need to worry about that nasty scar being visible through that fringe. DO IT and take a GOOD LOOK at yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are YOU happy to just "bald naturally" NOW ??? Take it a step further and take a stroll in the local mall and see how good you feel in your "naturally balding" skin. Are any here brave enough to do it ? I doubt it, so if not then STOP talking about something that is just a fanciful conjecture of the mind. I think I'd rather still be paying attention to my hair because I still think I'm attractive than just "letting go" and accepting myself as that "bald guy" who is 30 years older looking than his real age, and who gets rejected even by women in their 50s and 60s who still think of themselves as hotties and are just "not attracted to baldies." 7) "THE ONLINE FORUMS ARE JUST A SMALL % OF PEOPLE GETTING HTs. EVEN AMONGST THE TOP DOCS YOU WILL STILL FIND UNHAPPY PATIENTS": True again, but the definition of "unhappy" varies GREATLY from patient to patient. I've seen some guys SCREAMING on the forums about their horrible outcome, and then you see the photos and the dude was a solid NW 2 who is upset that he's not now a perfect NW1 after a 1000 graft surgery. Those are the kind of people who I would probably give a bloody nose to if they were standing in front of me telling me that!!! They DON'T know what it means to be SIGNIFICANTLY BALDING, and so they act like it is the end of their life to only have 99.9% of Brad Pitts hair. If they had ever undergone the RADICAL transformation (Futzyhead comes to mind) in appearence that occurs from significant balding (as well as loss of self esteem), then most of them would not consider their results to be failures. Then again, there are those legitimate cases of failure that are indeed depressing to witness. But you did mention that 1 VERY special clinic who seems to have very few (if any) of these outcomes. I think anyone who has done their research properly knows who that clinic is. 8) "YOU SIMPLY CAN'T SUGARCOAT THE POSSIBILITIES AND RISKS INVOLVED, EVEN WITH TODAY'S BEST DOCS AND RADICALLY IMPROVED TECHNIQUES": Agreed, mon frere! But do you still think I am someone who would like to do that ? I've done my homework on this for over 5 years now. I've seen ALOT of hype come and go, and I've also seen the winning horse pull far away from the rest of the pack. Like Nic Nitro said so wisely: "RESULTS SPEAK VOLUMES". Smart guy, that Nic Nitro -- and looking 20 years younger these days. I don't think he is regretting his decision (now or in the future) at all, and I don't believe I will either.

LMS, Cool post! I think that you and me agree on many more things than we disagree on. I'm about as harsh and non-trusting of a sceptic as one can possibly be concerning cosmetic surgery in general; but I can be equally as harsh towards people who made poor decisions based upon unrealistic expectations or flawed research, and then try to convince ALL of us that the entire field of HT surgery is just a big lie with false promises just to steal your money and leave you on the treadmill of "touch-ups" for life. One particular poster ("regreht") who got banned from the HLH forum seemed as though he was on just such a mission. Although I found some of his posts to be very informative and well written, it became obvious that he was just disgruntled that HIS decision to have a HT was a mistake and a failure. Why ? Because he chose to have it in his 20s BEFORE his hairloss pattern had matured, and therefore had HT hairs placed between his doomed hair on top that was destined to fall out. He acted as if it was the entire HT industry's fault that he was allowed to make this decision, and he viewed EVERY clinic as nothing more than an unethical mill looking to get rich by disfiguring people for life. He considered himself to be a "repair patient", yet when he posted pics of his donor scar it was a fine pencil line scar; and he also still had ALOT of hair on top of his head (MUCH more than most of us), yet he claimed to be angry about just not being able to "bald naturally." My opinion of him was that he was full of BS because he has not yet experienced loosing enough hair to see himself look 20-30 years older than he really is, along with the difference in how people (women especially) look at you and treat you. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you have HT hairs planted in between existing hair in the MPB area (ESPECIALLY if you are in you 20s or 30s)that it is LIKELY you will lose that native hair and need more surgeries later, or be left with a very sparse and unnatural looking HT. Anyway, I'm so conservative that I don't believe anybody under 30 years old should even remotely consider a HT UNLESS they are already a NW 6 and are one of the lucky few that have superman donor characteristics. If you are a diffuse thinner and you can see the obvious NW6 pattern developing in your 20s/30s then chances are likely less than 30% (IMHO) that you are even a remotely good cantidate -- even WITH propecia! Unless you have coarse, curly hair, average 100+ FU per sq. cm in the donor, above average contrast ratio, have a relatively small head, and mutant laxity then the best you can hope to acheive is a thin see-through look. But on the other hand if you are like me then it's probably quite possible you could do 1 pass of 4000+ (at the best clinic out there)and be good to go for at least another 10 years before needing another session. I just think too many people on these forums think that every HT cantidate is a guy in his 20s destined to become a NW 6 and not thinking this out rationally. For every disgruntled HT patient who feels it was the "worst mistake" of his life there are probably 100 who think it was the best decision of their life and never bother to return to the forums. ok friend. im going to break down every single statment i made, that i deem fact. then you can explain where my logic is flawed... and more importantly WHY these GENERAL rules cannot be useful to someone struggling with their HT decision like the OP has expressed... you should NOT attempt to discredit my accurate post simply because i left out the the often used line "characteristics play a major role".. but your accurate on that point. they do. here are my claims in the order i made them 1..." the vast majority of patients DO have more than one procedure"so going into this decision with that mentaity one is 'likely fooling' themselves------- in my years speaking with guys online,(active posters and quiet lurkers alike) as well as applying COMMON SENSE that in cases of MPB hairloss IS A progressive ailment, meaning that thru time those with native hair making their transplants look "good" LOSE it and to maintain something close to that natural look must and DO undergo future procedures. OR they are ALREADY high NWs in which case evidence STRONGLY suggests that they will and DO have future procedures... 2..."one really needs to look at this procedure big picture"........ what do you think labrat? do you feel one should do their best to factor in their long term potential future loss before making this decision? 3...strip method improves the likelyhood of better yield, but that is also contingent upon what dr you choose, and the overall size of procedure.... this is well known that strip as a whole yields better than FUE, FUE is more difficult, and more time consuming. the extraction method is NOT the same as dividing an excised strip using magnification... 4...'unforseen factors can and do arise'... now i admit this was a geralization so allow me to provide one example of what i meant by it... if you lurk on this site or any for that matter you WILL see cases of poor growth with no apparent reason, even from so called top docs.. in these cases the dr usually chalks it up to the patients "bad physiology" which in and of it self is a HARSH generalization made by the doctor, yet most posters simply agree and move on..while i believe this occurence is much less likely among the HANDFUL of elite drs, its still a possibility that deserves to NOT be pushed aside entirely IMO. 5...' just because the dr your choosing posts on this site frequently does NOT mean you are guaranteed a solid outcome' common sense.. do you disagree? 6..HTs are lifelong commitments, that often result in patients paying MORE attention to their hair and hairloss'..... personally this has been MY experience, i believe aaron1234's experience.. even in the more successful cases like THANA's you will notice HE is not free from his hairloss, infact he is quite cognizant of the state of his thinning crown.. making sure to 'tackle' it via any method available all while knowing he is likely doing nothing more than buying as much time as he can until he sits down in that chair again. Bill has had 4 of them, so i ask you labrat did his hairloss stop being a BIG factor in Bill life after his 1st, 2nd or even 3rd!! procedure?? what do you think?.. these are just 4 tiny examples of my larger point that anyone can feel FREE TO CHALLENGE IF they WOULD LIKE... the point is that HTs(even successful ones) do not free you psychologically from your hairloss they make you more aware of the natural progression of it and i know first hand the LESS SUCCESSFUL HTs put the patient in a state where he wants nothing more than to take back his decision and bald naturally, however my large ear to ear scar and my poorly placed and sparse grafted hairline remind me every day that the option to bald naturally is a LUXURY i can no longer choose... so even if your situation has improved for the time being due to your HT, hairloss is never far from the HTers mind. 7...'the online forums are but a SMALL % of the patients getting this procedure EVERY day. even by these top docs. and you WILL still find unhappy patients/poor outcomes arise. if your paying attention".... feel free to dispute this if you would like, if you ask me the writting is on the wall just as it is with everything else i said.. there is but ONE clinic out there that is EXTREMELY difficult to find mediocre results 8..you simply cannot sugar coat the possibilities and risks involved or you are doing a dis-service to the viewers who come here to learn what IS resulting from the decision to undergo this procedure, both the good and the bad...... well said LMS, well said BTW, labrat i enjoyed reading your post. i like it.. just not the part where you call into question the statments i made as if they do not apply.. they very much do. not just to megatron but alot of others who will find themselves where he is now...

Any pre-HT and post-HT pics for us to see ? What were your characterisitcs, NW level, and donor density ?

I think that what LMS calls "the facts" are not nearly specific enough, and you just can't make those kind of generalizations without knowing the vast PLETHORA of details that will affect the final outcome for different patients. For example, hair characterisitics are a HUGE factor in the potential outcome even with today's "ultra refined" techniques. How much research have YOU done on this issue as it relates to YOUR particular situaion ? In other words, if you haven't already had a REAL in-house consultation with a respectable doc who accurately measured your 1)FU donor density 2)hair shaft diameter in microns 3)scalp laxity 4) level of minituarization in the MPB area -- THEN HOW COULD YOU HAVE ALREADY SCHEDULED YOUR HT SURGERY DATE ?????!!!!!!! Without knowing these VERY IMPORTANT details that can only be accurately measured with the right equipment you are basically shooting blind rounds in the dark thinking you may hit the target. Also, you say you are between NW 3-4; but what is your AGE and family history of MPB on BOTH your mother and father's side ??? Did the men on each side have Brad Pitt hair until age 30 and then become NW 6/7 by age 40 ? Or is your dad a NW 6 and was that way since age 30 ? And did the men on your mom's side become NW 3s by age 25, but then stood that way until age 60 ? Or vice versa ? These are all HUGE issues that should be part of an OBSESSIVELY DETAILED research plan BEFORE you make any decisions to sit in even the very best HT surgeon's chair!! Notice that 99.9999999999% of all the guys on this (and many other) forums that bash HTs and try to convince everyone that it will be the worst mistake of your life DID NOT DO THEIR RESEARCH PROPERLY !!!!! Most of them had HTs in their 20s fully knowing that the older men in their family were cueball chrome-dome NW6/7s. And now they have serious regrets about making an obviously poor decision, because they should never have done it in the first place. And few of them (if any) ever list what their donor characteristics were pre-HT, which basically makes their anti-HT rants completely useless from the perspective of informing an objective scientific assesment of what YOUR potential outcome can be!!! Here's some info. on me: I'm NW3 vertex with normal density on top, 40.5 years old with no substantial additional loss since age 25, 90+ FU per sq. cm donor density, hair shaft diameter of 75 microns,excellent scalp laxity, and a relatively small head. My father is a NW 6 and has been that way since age 28 (I have seen the photos, so this is not merely based upon his memory). I have an older brother (age 50) who has essentially the exact same hairloss pattern as me, and he has been that way since age 25. On my mother's side there are no uncles; but her father had this exact same NW 3 pattern and he maintained it until his death in his late 60s WITHOUT proscar! I have other hair characterisitics that are exclusively from my mother's genetics like color, shaft diameter, and a "ducktail" that grows down the back of my neck. My NW 6 bald father has none of these traits. So, as you can see I have researched this quite throughly. I feel the chances of me progressing to NW 6 are likely less than 30% at this point. With the proscar it's probably even less than that, like maybe 25%. If I was 30 or younger I COULD NOT as easily make this assumption, and I would hold off on getting a HT. All of these other anti-HT SCREAMERS on here were mostly dudes in their 20s who thought they could "chase" their hairloss, and many of them bought the line of the HT mills. Now they preuse the forums trying to convince just about everyone that getting a HT will be the worst mistake of their life, or that you may look great now but in your 60s and 70s (when you're in a frickin wheelchair with people changing your diapers) you'll regret it. All I can say is DO YOUR RESEARCH!!! Look at cases like NicNitro, Futzyhead, Spex, and even Jotronic (who BTW was a repair patient with very fine hair shaft diameter). Do these patients feel this was rthe worst mistake of their life ? And of course there are many, many more like them out there enjoying their lives and no longer spending their precious days perusing these forums trying to convince every newbie that a HT will be their worst nightmare. The ones who stick around forever trying to warn people are mostly the ones who were bad cantidates from the start! And as far as all the repair patients who I have heard rant about how happy they would be just to be a "normal" bald guy, I don't beleive ANY of them have actually progressed beyond a NW4. So they have never been COMPLETELY bald to see that they look like a 60 year old man at age 30 when staring in the mirror; yet they "dream" about just being able to bald naturally, just as they "dreamed" about having their hair back pre-HT. They don't even know what the hell they will look like, but they are certain that it will be the end-all solution for them. I'm talking about guys that had decent FU modern transplants but feel it was the worst mistake of their life, and you see some pics of their head and they look like a NW2 yet they are SURE they would be much happier looking like Telly Sevales.

Hello Gemini twins !! I'm also in the entertainment biz (musician), and I am following your progess closely! Thank you so much for keeping us all posted. I'm just curious to know what your average donor density (for each of you) was ? I know that H & W wasn't able to harvest as many FUs as planned, and I'm wondering if that was because of below average donor density (FU per sq. cm) or less than optimal scalp laxity ? Or possibly a combo of both ? Anyway, hang in there brothers because the best is yet to come! I am still a virgin head, and I'm actually a little jealous that you guys have had this done sooner than I am able to!! I really can't wait (literally) to see both of your final outcomes, as I think I'll be in that chair myself well before that 12 month mark comes!

Just curious about this. Who invented it, and how long have docs been doing it ? 2 years, 5 years ? From the photos I've been seeing it seems that one could indeed wear the hair very short with a successful outcome using this technique. What would be considered the closest # guard you could shave down to ? I have to admit that seeing some of these ultra-fine scars with the hair growing through them makes the FUE route seem less desirable than before, especially because you can't really shave completely down with FUE either (especially if 3000+ grafts were extracted). Any thoughts on this fellas ?

OK, so if the techs' skill in doing the dissecting and planting are a MAJOR factor in the final outcome, HOW does one insure that he/she will be getting the clinic's most experienced and TOP senior super-techs on the day of the procedure ??? When I have my procedure I want to know for sure that no newbie techs are working on me. I'll even pay extra if I have to just to insure this !!! Also, I don't want stressed out overworked techs on the day of my procedure either. I'd rather schedule on a monday so that the techs had a couple of days to rest and refresh. The last thing I would want is to have the same techs that just finished a 12 hour 6000 FU procedure the previous day that ended at 9 p.m., and then they have to show up at 7 a.m. the next morning to work on me. No matter how great they are there will be some fatigue issues. Even the very best athletes in pro sports have fatigue issues and cannot perform at the top of their game unrested; I see this as something very similar. So HOW can one go about insuring all of this BEFORE the day of the procedure ???