HairLossMentor

I agree 100% that FUE is not scarless. Though you can minimize visible scarring, that's key. The simplest route to achieve this is punch size. Keep in mind that if the doctor is using a 1 mm punch, the actual size of the punch depends on the thickness of the metal. Depending on the manufacturer, it can be 1.2 to 1.5 mm. In the wrong hands even 1000 grafts can destroy your donor area. I seen it many many times unfortunately. The problem we're dealing with here is donor management or lack of donor management. It's a technique used by very few North American doctors. I commend any Dr. willing to learn FUE- and as with anything in life they will only get better in time. The problem is at the last FUE conference, I only noted 3 doctors from North America… Dr. Rahal, Dr. Wong, Dr. Shapiro. That says something. It was at this conference where they talked about the stuff, share tips of the trade. Here's a quick explanation of donor management… Donor management - a strategy to maximize your donor area, both in the number of grafts you can safely harvest for transplantation and visually, allowing you to wear your hair short and get the most amount of grafts possible... Tactic #1: Using calculations, you are able to predict how many grafts you can safely harvest from the safe zone. Not only in one session but over multiple. Punch size is a factor here. Smaller punch means more grafts and less visible scarring Tactic #2: partial transection to avoid this kind of stuff-scarring, patchy, moth-eaten look. If it's a 3 hair, you will strategically harvest 2 and leave 1 hair behind. For it to work you need 8x magnification and .8 punch size and under. The magnification alone is 10k. So not many want to make the investment. Tactic #3: punch type, sharp, dull, etc. motorized vs. manual - each has its place, depending on your skin type. FUE experts are masters at each, and prior to each procedure actually test each. What they are looking for is the technique with the lowest transection and highest graft quality. Note: smaller is still better You also need a high level of skill to pull this off, why I am so against the robot. In the hands of an amateur hair transplant Dr. you can do more harm with FUE to a guys donor area than any other procedure. Bottom line, if you are using a 1 mm punch, the robot you're not practicing donor management. Donor management is a highly advanced strategy and means a massive investment both in staff and equipment. But it's also what separates the amateurs from the professionals. Please refer to this example photo… This is just a quick explanation… There's much more to it. But in the example I applied tactic #2, with just 12 single hairs. And you can notice a visible difference in the donor area. I do commend Dr. Diep. I'm seeing some good results from him. And I encourage him to continue learning the craft and to learn about and master donor management. It would be super helpful if he would jump in and let us know about his technique, punch size, tools of the trade. I always encourage an open and honest debate. That's what makes this forum great.

If any of these doctors needed a hair transplant, they would not get ARTAS.

I agree. I have some very real concerns about Dr. Diep's donor area management. In my opinion, the damage I'm seeing is not acceptable. Plus some of his patients are in a lot of trouble should their hair loss progress. Even shaving at a number #1 donor looks okay. The money shot is when a guy shaves down after FUE. Here is an example of what I mean. Looks like The dots are from a 1 mm punch. 3000+ of those in your donor shot-forever. You really need to stick to .8 and below. Despite what they say, size does matter. Re: Dr. Bernstein. He's been around for a while and is more of a academic now. Plus he also supports ARTAS and is a shareholder I believe? I just can't support any Dr. who promotes the robot, after I've personally seen the damage it does to guys donor areas. I am open to debate with any Dr. who supports and offers ARTAS. But I doubt that will ever happen. The technology just isn't ready in my opinion. What's scary is that everybody in the industry seems to agree-yet some actively promote the robot, and privately say it's crap. Sad

I agree Bill. He definitely had some work done in the past. Here's the thing though, he can probably fix it if he really wanted to. But he won't because it's kind of like his trademark. I can't imagine Donald Trump with a great hairline LOL it's kind of his thing. Remember Don King? Same thing. It gets people talking about him. And love or hate him, he's one of the best entertainers of our time.

For me it was two comments…

Just one more reason to do your research guys. Don't believe everything you see online. Question results. Meet patients in person. Hair transplants are gaining in popularity. More guys are restoring their hairline than ever before. And hair transplant mills, hair transplant hacks, and con artists have taken notice… Here's one great example… https://visushaarkliniek.nl/voor-en-na-foto/ Visus Haarkliniek offers ARTAS hair transplants in the Netherlands. But they stole Dr. Rahal's FUE results. This is not a mistake. They made a real effort to mislead guys. Pay close attention to how much detail and effort it took to steal these photos... hey actually change the background. If this clinic is stealing results, can you really trust them? Anyway, we live in a crazy world.

I'm posting this photo to show how disappointed I am in the industry. How disappointed I am that many feel this kind of thing is okay. I don't think I need to go into detail why this is wrong on so many levels, how the grafts were harvested and outside the safe zone, how a massive punch was used due to lack of experience, how misleading the result is. I think the photo speaks for itself. Sadly this poor guy doesn't realize how much trouble he's in, not if but when his hair loss gets worse and he needs another hair transplant. I've been in the industry 4/20+ years now. And I'm reminded of the 90s in the era of plugs and mini grafts. But this in a way takes it to an entirely different level. Sadly I'm seeing a lot of the stuff lately. FUE in many ways has advanced the industry. But it also made it easier for anyone to offer the treatment, opening the door to this kind of stuff. Now we have part-time hair transplant doctors, hair transplant mills offering FUE from countries with very little regulation, hell we even have non-doctors performing hair transplants in the US. Unfortunately, I can't say that the average guy with little research will end up with a great result. The odds are against him. Do your research guys. It's more important than ever before.

I'm not sure why people are just saying go to India. What the hell does that mean? LOL do they have a magic wand in India that allows you to transplant hair you don't have as a class 7?? Come on man. @MohanSingh I was around the same age when I had my hair transplant, and I have a good idea of your expectations. I'm not trying to be negative but I highly doubt you will be happy with the result at 28. Your hair loss is aggressive, you have no donor hair and at best you can get a little hair on top. You don't have enough grafts to create your temple points, as in the examples above. And that's one of the main problems... Your temple points are essentially gone. So while you can possibly transplant the hairline, though very thin, your hair transplant will look like a hair system simply because you don't have enough donor hair for the temple points. It's how I can spot, and now you can to, hair systems. Were just not able to create temple points. Have you thought of FUE and SMP combo. You can shave your head in the FUE will give that prickly feeling, adding to the naturalness. When done right can't tell. Plus the shaved head look is in now. I know it's not perfect, but it's better than nothing. Or you can just say hell with it and shave your head.

@Shifty No reason man! All looks great. Just where I noticed the most improvement. Looks like you're seeing growth all over too. Just bookmarked this thread. Keep us posted buddy. A lot of guys considering meds would benefit from this. Maybe even throw up some video too. That would be cool.

@literalno for sure man. Let me dig them up. How you're feeling is normal. We all go through it. Soon you will see growth and be worried that one side is thicker or growing faster than the other All normal buddy. Not sure if you posted pics here. But I'm happy to have a look if you want to PM me.

These results are attached to a person. No one here would appreciate their results being talked about like this. @Bill - Managing Publisher does have a point here. Being a repair patient myself it really struck home. Though many of us have an issue with ARTAS. In the end, we need to have each others back and support each other. We're all in this together. We all know what each is going through. It's a great feeling knowing where not alone. Re: ARTAS/smart/neo-graft... in my opinion, even in the hands of an expert, each machine has limitations. Some more than others. These machines have set the industry back 10, 20 years in my opinion. They took the specialization out of hair restoration. And we are headed for a wave of unhappy guys. Take ARTAS...my issue is the punch size, transection, and the robots ability to harvest the donor area. Guys run the risk of over harvesting. As for amature doctors using ARTAS, if you look at who is using it, most are part-time docs. A couple of full-time docs own it for marketing purposes. But don't use it. Too many limitations. Sadly, I met a 24 year guy last week. He had 2100+ grafts harvested with neo-graft. His hairline is a mess. The docs a cosmetic surgeon who never actually performed a hair transplant before. Or very few. Crazy. But that's the new reality. Watch a video, take a course, and you're harvesting 3000 FUE the next day. That's scary.

In my opinion ARTAS is used by amateurs. And doctors who have no idea how to perform FUE. Maybe one day robots will be useful in hair restoration, but the technology just isn't ready. This isn't me speaking, this is feedback from doctors in the industry. I personally know a few guys who were damaged by the robot, their donor areas depleted. Sadly they have no options. Here's a story, I knew a girl once who was friends with a hair transplant Dr. When she told me he offered the robot, I said the doctor is an amateur and a few other choice words. She got a little defensive but then I explained the facts, and the robots limitations. Then I asked her to call the doctor and say her dad wants a hair transplant using ARTAS. The doctors response, he recommended not getting the robot because because she was his friend. I wonder if she was his friend, what is recommendation would've been. It's a sad reality but if you look really close you'll notice that most of the doctors who use ARTAS are part-time hair transplant doctors. That says something.

@davebot8888 the only two doctors I would ever consider for hairline work are Dr. Rahal and Dr. Ron Shapiro. Especially for hairline refinement. Keep in mind Dr. Rahal restored my hairline. I don't see Dr. Ron Shapiro talked about on the forms much. But he's a legend. I'm watching a couple of other doctors who have potential, but I'm seeing some rookie mistakes like with your transplant. Whoever you go with. Just make sure they specialize in hairlines. A monkey can increase the density. That's not a problem. Its the details that matter in your case. And I'm sure half the doctors performing hair transplants today, I'm talking about the part-time hair transplant hacks, don't even know about micro-/macro irregularity. Good news is this is fixable man. Just choose your doc wisely. You have one more shot to get this right. Not trying to be negative. Just make sure to put a lot of thought in your decision, okay 🙂 I'm a repair patient myself and get what you're going through. Free anytime if you have questions.

I'm actually surprised that a doctor has the balls to post an ARTAS result here. I feel bad for the patient.

I know 100% recommendations go through Dr. Rahal. I can't say for Dr Yaman, though I imagine it's the same. Reach out to Tara. She posts here sometimes and is an awesome resource. She can set something up with Dr. Rahal for sure. Maybe even time the trip to meet some patients in person. You'll meet more patients out of the Toronto office than the Ottawa one. Good luck man

That’s a bit of a paradox man 🙂 The good docs are booked out 6+ months on average. Most have a standby list though. If they pitch this, make sure you get a discount for booking last minute. You should post some pics? Thick hair is great for density-but make sure you choose a hairline specialist. Or you risk the hairline looking fake. Like you, I would spend hours in the mirror, trying to make my hairline look artificially straight. Hair loss sucks. No doubt about it. But you’ve made it this far man. A couple more months won’t hurt, plus you’ll have more time to research, ask questions. Good luck man... Your post caught my eye because I was around the same age when I had my first hair transplant 🙂 here if you need anything man.

@Knightr007 Let me know how goes man. Not sure if you’re leaning towards strip or FUE? The reason I ask is because SMP works best on FUE scars when your head is shaved to the bone. Strip scars are hit and miss. Really boils down to if they are level or not. Keep me posted on the doc rec. Good luck buddy.

A guy told me this once… I know the above is true from first-hand experience. Choose your hair transplant doctor carefully. It's a one-shot deal.

With any hair transplant, there is scarring. So it’s really about if that scarring bothers you or not. For example, I know guys who had strip and it doesn’t bother them if they go short at the sides and back. Other guys, bothers the shit out of them and they will leave their hair a little longer. Same thing with FUE. Punch size plays a role, especially if the doctor is using a 1 mm punch. Avoid these guys like the plague. Even with the small punch though, you’re still looking at some scarring-and depending on how you heal, scars may or may not be visible. So that’s the question... If someone is standing behind you and they notice some FUE scars, will it bother you? If yes forget about a hair transplant, especially if you want to go that short. But if you’re OK with your donor area not being perfect, and the chance that scarring will be visible... that changes things. SMP is also an option to conceal the scars. You probably know, SMP was originally developed for guys who wet shave, they shave that close every day. So in your case, it would be most effective, especially since you want to go that short. Now the front, that’s a different story... Without knowing your hair loss history, use of medications, and other details, it’s tough to say. Just keep in mind, as you know with SMP, hair transplants do you have limitations. Just make sure you’re OK with those limitations. It’s not as cut and dry as people think. Hope this helps man.

PS. I forgot to mention shock loss. A lot of those hairs are fine and wispy, meaning there on their way out. These are the hairs most susceptible to shock loss. There is a real danger that if you transplant into the crown, things will turn out worse, look worse. Experienced doctors go into an area planning for shock loss. And since were dealing with the crown, that's not the case here. Just another reason "why." I hope this helps man.

@pkipling Dr. Rahal's recommendation is based on experience and setting the patient up for long-term success. That's the "why." To transplant into the crown, especially such a small number of grafts, and especially since his hair loss will progress, shows lack of experience. I'm not against transplanting the crown. But these days we have options like SMP, which is great at creating the illusion of density-which is really all you can achieve anyway. The responsible thing to do do here is to transplant the front, SMP for the crown, and the big three to thicken vellus hairs. Period. There are a lot of things you need to look at when choosing a hair transplant Dr. it's not just about the technical, it's about experience and knowing what to do or what not to do. Option two is a great example of what not to do.

@literalno nothing to worry about man. Shouldn't expect anything at 4.5 months. Maybe, and I mean maybe, the first signs of growth. But everyone's different. 6 to 9 months is when you'll notice everything is on track. I know it's tough. I've been there. But in hair transplant terms, it's not a long time. It's hard not to compare your progress to other guys, I get it. Just keep in mind, you went with one of the best. Everything will work out 🙂 happy to share my experience anytime.

@davebot8888 hey buddy, the issue with your hairline is the transition zone. You need to vary the density. See attached. It should look irregular but take on more density further back, a gradual transition. It's a common mistake with amateur doctors. Sadly I'm seeing more of it lately. Ask your doc for micro-irregularity, this is the irregularity you notice up close. What a lot of guys here are referring to as imperfect regularity. And what prevents too straight or solid -looking hairline. You'll notice a big improvement here. Macro irregularity, this is the irregularity you notice from a distance. The subtle curve of the hairline. Not so much an issue in your case. Hope this helps. Forgive the quick and dirty illustration 🙂 Just make sure you go the doctor who specializes in hairline design. Not just hair transplant Dr. if you know what I mean. Any questions let me know, good luck man.

@MohanSingh At 27 in a class 7, you will not be happy with the result. I was around the same age when I had my hair transplant, and I have a good idea of your expectations. One of the main problems with at class 7 is that your temple points are essentially gone. So while you can possibly transplant the hairline, though very thin, your hair transplant will look like a hair system simply because you don't have enough donor hair for the temple points. It's how I can spot, and now you can to, hair systems. Were just not able to create temple points. Have you thought of FUE and SMP combo. You can shave your head in the FUE will give that prickly feeling, adding to the naturalness. When done right can't tell. Plus the shaved head look is in now. I know it's not perfect, but it's better than nothing. Or you can just say hell with it and shave your head.

@davebot8888 What are your goals? Do you just want to increase the density? Are you happy with the hairline placement?