HairLossMentor

I wish that was the case. Sadly, when done wrong FUE destroys your donor area. You have no options, except to shave your head and laser out what grafts survived. Then most guys get smp for FUE scars. I see this all the time. And here is the thing...hair transplants are MUCH more mainstream now than before. We're talking BILLIONS... a mass wave of guys who think all hair transplants are created equal...and all doctors are equal. Take a look at the example I provided...it's from a well-know site. How long do you think that result would last here? This poor guy is screwed. He just does not know it yet. Wait a few more years when he need a second hair transplant. A wave of unhappy patients is coming! It's not if...but when.

Agree. He does not get the recognition he deserves for sure. Awesome hairlines. Awesome doctor. Very humble when you meet him.

I would also add Ron Shapiro to the list. Outstanding hairlines. Very natural. He is more of a 2-pass for density, which is not a bad thing. I actually find that the more experienced the doctor gets, he/she is a master at creating the illusion of density, less is more. @Gasthoerer re: Density in one pass - H&W ...I always like to differ the two. Wong vs. Hasson. Dr. Wong being by choice for "crown and one-pass." I actually sent my cousin to Dr. Wong. Thoughts?

You can't and control quality. Go with a doctor who does one (maybe two) cases a day. I say two because you can have one case in the morning and the other in the afternoon. Same team. Just 1/2 day. Problem with a lot of Turkish doctors is they are focused on volume. They have 8+ rooms and need a massive volume of patients to feed the "machine." While you might get a good doctor... in the end it's a business and money talks. It's more profitable to focus on volume and delegate to technicians...then perform 1-2 cases a day at a premium price. If you asked to be the only cases, you would get a polite but firm, "no." Lets face it, most of the Turkish docs USP is "we're cheaper." Problem is that's not sustainable. The competition will go cheaper. Take Korea. The USP there is cost. And most (even the busiest clinics) struggle to make any profit. A few of the Turkish docs have caught on and increased their price...the good ones anyway. But for the others, they are playing the short-game. And patients will pay the price.

re: hair loss pattern: norwood is not complete. looks like a normal pattern I have a preference for Dr Wong...he is a legend. You can count on what he recommends as true. Always worth getting a 2nd opinion for sure. But guys usually do this for price reasons. You will find that "top" docs are all in the same price range. I always suggest 3 consults with a top doc. Gives enough information to make an informed decision and you avoid information overload. 100% agree with Sean. The doc should offer.... manual, motorized FUE different punch sizes (avoid 1mm) shard, dull punch (or combo) have on hard, partial transection, plus full (ask) offer "donor management." Ask specifics to get a feel why? transection rate. your case should start with the doctor testing which has the lowest. once determined, move forward. he/she will know quickly. Ask to see the #'s. Donor management is an advanced technique. Only a handful of fue docs do this. But it's so important. re: high density megasession...two thoughts here, 1-pass vs. 2-pass. The first, while proven, does carry more risk and is less forgiving. 2-pass is the "safer" option. But you are back for a second round. Not always an option when you are traveling 1000's of miles If I had a choice, I would go with 2200 max, then top things up. A lot of guys get really great results with this.

Civas is $5-6 CAD graft. That's not budget. A few of the others don't even have results posted. A simple Google search weeds out a few others. Guys. If you read this thread...PLEASE do a detailed Google search, plus meet patients in person. PLEASE. Don't risk it. It's a one shot deal...get it wrong and your donor is shot. Then you're forced to live with a shitty result for the result of your life. Meet patients in person. Don't trust photos, even videos can be misleading. Meet patients in person.

Maybe we need to be clear on "budget"... Note: I'm not taking about Turkish doctor's like Dr. Koray for example...he does good work...and is not budget. He can (and does charge) comparable to $5-$6 CAD graft because he can. I'm talking about these $2000 clinics popping up all over Turkey. Not a chance you can get the same result as Wong Rahal, Shapiro, Koray with these hacks. Research a little more I know first hand that "repair cases" make up 10-30% of north american clinics now, mostly fixing botched jobs from Turkey. It's so bad that doctors describe it as a "wave of bad results." Just last week I met a kid who spent $2000 on a budget clinic only to get botched. He has NO options. What can he do? Sue the doc in Turkey? Guys need to know that. A good read... In Turkey’s cutthroat hair-transplant tourism industry, the biggest losers are the patients and Syrian refuges, https://qz.com/954680/in-turkeys-cutthroat-hair-transplant-tourism-industry-the-biggest-losers-are-the-patients-and-syrian-refugees/ 100% agree!

Some early growth man! Curious, did you get prp with the ht?

@Aftermath I never said you weren't entitled to your opinion. I respect your opinion. But you made stuff up. This isn't a question of "I think Dr. X's hairlines are more natural than Y's." Both are opinions. But you outright lied. You claimed Dr. Rahal's patients "disappear." You also claimed Dr. Rahal is "not consistent." You made both up... But THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE I have... When a guy gets a hair transplant… at around the 6 month mark… he starts to question everything... Did I make the right decision? Is one side growing faster than the other? He'll start researching the forums, looking for guys also at 6 months… He starts to compare his result to others… Staring in the mirror every day, looking for gaps, thinking back when he bumped his head. ...It's a mind F#CK. It doesn't help when guys like you start feeding them BS… Using the words "failure." It's way too early to judge anything...he needs to hear just that from you and others. If at 9 months... he's not happy... That's a different story… Then our focus needs to turn to finding a solution. Looking at all his options. I'll be one of the first to call Dr. Rahal out. But that should not even be on his mind. You provided no support... Instead you throw jabs..and made up stuff... This only adds fuel to the fire...and only makes the guy feel worse. Look man… The industry is plagued with hair transplant hacks. Ethical doctors are few and far between... And why I won't hesitate to defend Dr. Rahal and others. They actually care for patients. The guy is anxious as it is. Do you really think you are helping? We're all in this together. What this guy needs to hear are the facts... ✓ Dr. Rahal is consistent ✓ it's too early to judge anything ✓ let's see where things are at 9 months ✓ if you have any concerns, Dr. Rahal will take care of you

@Melvin-Moderator It's not about… for example… doctor vs. technician extracting. Dr. has 20 years experience… Technician has 20 years experience. Both can (with proper training) achieve a low transection rate. In both cases it boils down to experience. The issue is the limitations of the robot... I'll give just one example… - Donor management has a number of benefits including maximizing the number of lifetime grafts and appearance of the donor area. In my opinion... and from every doctor I have spoken to... the robot can't achieve partial transection, maximizing the appearance of the donor area. That's an important tactic. Though I'll concede it's an advanced tactic used by only a few FUE specialists. - Another is (from what I understand) the robot can't harvest the entire safe zone… Putting the patient at risk of over harvesting. If I'm wrong… I encourage any doctor who uses ARTAS to come forward and defend your position. Let's have an open and honest discussion. I have a number of questions I want to ask… And we can let guys on the form decide if they should be using the robot or not. I'm still waiting for that to happen.

@Aftermath Dr. Rahal didn't declare himself "The hairline King"... his patients did. But as with anything you should back up claims with proof… So below is the proof. There are thousands of examples on this form alone… I encourage you to use the search function. Here are just a few... "he's called the hairline king" https://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/topic/51249-dr-rahal-3025-grafts-fut/ "The Hairline king!!! https://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/topic/46745-dr-rahal-3185-graft-fut-nw-3-6-months-post-op/ I'm also calling you on your "lacks consistency" and "patients disappear" statement... Dr. Rahal is one of the most consistent doctors in the business...this is a fact...not up for debate. - Search the forms and you'll find thousands of happy patients... And "very few" unhappy patients... He's been doing this for 30+ years... Thousands upon thousands of procedures… I would say that's "consistent"... Wouldn't you? -Even the elite hair transplant surgeons don't bat hundred percent... A small percentage of guys… For whatever reason...will need a touch up. It's the human body… There are factors outside of their control. Don't get a hair transplant unless you can accept that fact. - What's important is… How did the doctor react?… Meaning did he do everything in his/her power to make the patient happy. Elete hair transplant surgeons at Dr. Rahal's level do just that… They have one goal really, make sure you are happy. …The above are just a couple of reasons why I chose Dr. Rahal for my hair transplant. I've been at this for a long time (20+ years)… and I see when posters like you throw little "jabs"… which aren't true… just to get patients/guys all riled up. Making sure you say in the same sentence "it's your opinion" just to cover your tracks… that's telling. There are certain doctors in the industry who are consistent… And care for their patients... few and far between in this industry sadly. Dr. Shapiro, and Dr. Wong are 2 others I have great respect for. Both are consistent and produce amazing results. These doctors are on your side...and move the industry forward. -------------------------------- @bman3082 It's great to see you back man. And awesome to see you asking questions… Sharing your experience. Sorry I had to waste my time on @Aftermath. His goal is to get guys riled up with statements like "failure" or "not consistent." He knows full well it's all BS. Reality is… You went with one of the best... ✓ consistent ✓ natural results ✓ hairline King ✓ ethical ✓ experience It's too early to judge anything... but based off what I'm seeing (40 grafts cm/2) you are right on track. 40 grafts cm/2 is a low density hair transplant... and it's going to look thin. Especially since you have dark hair/pale skin and contrast between hair and scalp is high. It's important you keep your expectations in check. Meaning don't expect a typical Rahal Hairline. You need minimum 50-60+ grafts cm/2 (depending on hair characteristics). Not that you have anything to worry about… Everything indicates (from what I'm seeing) your hair transplant will be a success… But it will look thin. Again, thin does not mean your hair transplant was a failure. It just means you received 40 grafts cm/2... And will need some creative styling to achieve the look you're after. This is just the reality. Anyone who says different is lying. ...But again...way too early to judge anything. It's a waiting game...and you are not even at the 1/2 mark...both in density and coverage. What's key here is that you went with Dr. Rahal...One of the most ethical doctors in the business. So even though 40 grafts cm/2 will look thin… And it sounds like you knew that going into it. Dr. Rahal will most likely increase the density for free… That's just who he is. Good luck and keep us posted... You have nothing to worry about.

100% agree.

If you can, speak to your doctor about getting on Propecia. Maybe add Nizoral to your routine. It's cheap and the active ingredient is found in a lot of hair loss shampoos. A study suggested it's just effective as Rogaine. Take your time man and ask lots of questions. Good luck man!

Looks great but give it another 5 months before judging the final result. Hairs still needs to thicken and mature. You will notice a difference at 15 months, then again at 24 months... you'll know what I mean then. Keep in mind a hair transplant creates the illusion of density, and after a couple of haircuts you will find the "Sweet Spot" - when it looks the thickest. Use a Matt clay when styling your hair. A nice pomade would work great at that hair length, just make sure it's not shiny. Dry shampoo is great to create some volume, and check out a thickening shampoo. Thick & Full is great and inexpensive. There nothing wrong with wanting to refine things. 100 or so graphs can do wonders. Let Dr Rahal know, it's included with your growth guarantee. It's an awesome result, enjoy man!

What's important here is expectations. There are very real limitations with a Class 7. Instead of saying yes you can do this, we should ask "what do you want to achieve?" After 25+ years in the industry, I promise you a 28-year, who is a Class 7, will most likely not be satisfied with what he can achieve. Maybe when he's 50 NOK with a little hair on his head and some strategic styling. But at 28, not a chance. Best bet for this guy, shave his head and get SMP. I just get the feeling he's chasing something he can never achieve.

Agree with what's being said. Contrast between hair/scalp is low and will add to the illusion of density. Just go into this knowing you will need 2 hair transplants now, plus another possibly down the road. Also keep in mind at best you will achieve a thinning crown with your second hair transplant. Though you can definitely thicken things/create the illusion of density with SMP. Meds can also thicken some of the miniaturized hairs, adding to the density. Re: I wouldn't call it a more conservative hairline… I think dreaded V or U shape hairline here. But maybe go for more of a male angle. I agree you should not lower it. Keep in mind, depending on your facial structure you can opt for slightly higher placement and less recession. Though based on your ethnic background… Avoid too straight of the hairline. You want that male angle. Not sure if you're on medications? Maybe speak to your doctor about Propecia prior to your hair transplant. Not necessarily to stop hair loss, but the thicken some of the miniaturized hairs. The hairs that are on their way out and most susceptible to shock loss. Then of course the big three after to keep what you have. Another point, your crown is starting to drop. Meds a most effective here. See the photo example. Hundred percent speak to your doctor about the big three. Your goal is to keep as much of your original hair as possible. Nothing wrong with getting a hair transplant. And it looks like your a candidate. Just don't think this is a one-shot deal. If you take the leap… You're committed for life. The benefits can be life-changing, but it's a lifestyle change. Meaning you need to do everything you can to keep the hair that you have/slow your hair loss. Don't think it's a one-shot deal. Good luck man.

PS I would wait 15 months before you schedule a session to refine things. With my hair transplant I noticed an increase in density after 12 months, basically the hairs mature and thicken. Things start to flow, hair starts to settle. It's around this time you can judge the final final result… And a great time to tweak things

Result looks great man! I love seeing this kind of stuff. Another thing to look at is your donor area… looks awesome. Re: tweaking things. Maybe 100 grafts or so on the right side to thicken things up. I think I noticed an area that is a little thinner. I know Dr. Rahal is really good about this stuff… And would fall under his growth guarantee. Maybe schedule a session to refine things. I would not touch the hairline, especially the micro-/macro irregularity… he nailed it.

I would schedule a consultation with Konior, Dr. Rahal, and Dr. Ron Shapiro. It sucks where you're at man. I've been there. You can fix this though. Maybe I missed it? But have you asked for a refund from the other clinic? You can use that towards getting this fixed.

P. S. I have seen the results up close and in person, including the donor area. This is one of those things, the big secret in the industry. As I said the robot has very real limitations. One thing to consider and if I'm wrong please do correct me… But ARTAS is only FDA cleared for one patient/hair type?? However, is it being used across the board??

It's not about sharp vs dull punch. It's about the very real limitations of ARTAS. For example, donor management, as in the example I cited, is not possible using ARTAS. Plus I also take issue with the punch size, limitations on maximizing the donor area (possibly resulting in over harvesting), and in my opinion not providing adequate training in hair restoration, donor management, hair loss to doctors who purchase the machine. Literally a doctor with no experience in hair restoration can perform 2000 FUE very next day after purchasing the robot. Do you think that setting the guy up for success? As I mentioned, I'll be presenting this information, with proof and inviting any doctor to defend their use of the robot.

Well said

I can prove this and will very shortly. ARTAS in my opinion puts severe limitations on the doctors ability to harvest grafts. It's also FDA cleared for a specific patient/hair type... Say tuned. The information will be factual and I welcome any doctor who offers ARTAS to join in and defend their use of the robot. I had a nice debate/discussion with one of their sales reps at the last meeting… They know where I stand. I agree about the ISHRS. The standards are low. But here's something to consider… I think we all agree it takes years of training before you can perform natural hair restoration, plus a massive investment in staff. One of my biggest problems with ARTAS, besides it being rejected by some of the best in the industry, is that it markets to part-time hair transplant doctors, a.k.a. do a facelift, boob job and hair transplant on the side. These doctors with little to no training in hair restoration and use the robot to harvest 3000+ graphs in one session… clearly harvesting outside of the safe zone. It's the industry's secret… Everyone I speak to, every doctor, every patient advocate all say the robot is not ready. Everyone says this in private but publicly many will purchase the robot because "patients ask for it." In fact, a doctor in LA who owns spa and injects Botox is purchasing ARTAS for that very reason. Thank God for these forums. I give credit to yourself and Bill for allowing an open and honest debate. As long as were all respectful to each other and supported with facts. Thank you. The industry is a mess… And we need forums like this so the truth comes out. P. S. Who would like to see a $250,000 robot get run over by a bulldozer? 🙂 Stay tuned P.P.S. An easy solution is to reject part-time hair transplant doctors. At one time hair restoration was a specialized field. This specialization brought us FUE but also led to the industry being hijacked. You just can't get consist results doing hair transplants part-time. You can't just dabble in hair. You need to do this full-time, for many years. I challenge anyone to disagree.

Hi John, helpful info. Thank you. I feel we should never blame the guy who watched an infomercial and decides to get a hair transplant. Most guys don't do their research. They assume that since it's a medical procedure, doctors are bound by medical ethics... crazy thought I know. Sadly it's not the case. Money talks in this industry. In the example I posted, the guy had his hair transplant outside north amerrica, where many of the medical standard are not the same. Why does realself give this doctor a platform? Why won't the hair transplant community jump on this and say it's wrong. Yes, even in north america the industry is a disgrace in many ways. But it's not the wild west like Turkey for example. @John Baris if you really want to help guys, and I know you do... Demand the ishrs and medical boards... 1) only allow membership to doctors who practice hair transplants full time 2) ban non-doctors performing hair transplants, as in the case of many clinics in the usa 3) ban the use of ARTAS 4) set standards for transection, plus make it easier for patients to make a complaints 5) set standards what doctors can and can't say. That fue is "scarless" is a great example. The above is a great start. We are facing a crisis To hair transplant doctors: In my opinion, the problem is ARTAS, neo-graft, smart graft. They market to "non specialists." Cosmetic surgeons who perform boob jobs and hair transplants on the side. It's time to focus on the patient. Put differences aside and put the specialization back into hair transplants. It's been hijacked by amature cosmetic surgeons who only see profits. Or worse, non doctors. Yes, you don't need to be a doctor to perform fue in the usa! You know how difficult is it to perform and master the art.

-grafts were taken outside the safe zone, meaning they are not resistant to DHT and he will lose them as his hair loss gets worse - a large punch, most likely 1 mm was used. I doubt this poor guy is able to get a second procedure after this - there is no donor management, they just harvested as many grafts as possible. While FUE scarring is a problem… The real problem is not having enough grafts when your hair loss progresses. A lot of guys won't discover this until it's too late. Even after thousand grafts, when done wrong, FUE can destroy you donor area. FUE has been hijacked by amateur hair transplant doctors, with little desire to learn how to do it correctly… This is a great example of it. I wave of unhappy patients is coming… This is worse than the 90s and the era of plugs. Much worse.